DoctorAlien:


The "Continual state of torment" doctrine is completely unbiblical. The word "eternal" as Jesus uses it there means that the punishment which sinners will suffer will be their final, total and complete end. (See Jude 7). It doesn't mean that sinners will be alive forever in hell burning.

47 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, throw it out [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It would be better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm [that feeds on the dead] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:47,48

Isn't it funny, the man is annihilated but his worms are not!!! Sir, both will live through it!

Meanwhile, if sinners will be in hell be alive forever in hell burning, doesn't that negate the Bible teaching that only the righteous ones will live forever? If sinners are alive forever burning, that means they have eternal life too, just that they spend theirs in a place different from where the righteous people spend theirs. But the Bible is clear that only the righteous ones will live forever with GOD.

So, the "unending torment" doctrine is totally unbiblical.

Immortality is not the same as Eternal Life!

Now that the devil has been in operation since Genesis till now, does that mean he has Eternal Life loaned him?

Scholar8200:

just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the adjacent cities, since they in the same way as these angels indulged in gross immoral freedom and unnatural vice and sensual perversity. They are exhibited [in plain sight] as an example in undergoing the punishment of everlasting fire

Jude 7

Let us allow the Bible explain what example it is talking about: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Pet. 2:6

It is now clear what the fate of sinners will be. The eternal fire which brought Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes is the fire that will exterminate sinners at the end.

That in no way supports the theory of the immortality of the soul.

Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake (resurrect), these to everlasting life, but some to disgrace and everlasting contempt (abhorrence)
Daniel 12:3
Is it not strange that claim that for the one Everlasting life means just what it says while for the other Everlasting means something different?

Scholar8200:
In fact this passage underscores the immortality of the soul since it speaks of the people so destroyed as currently undergoing judgement.

"...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek. 18:4.

DoctorAlien:


Let us allow the Bible explain what example it is talking about: "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly." 2 Pet. 2:6

It is now clear what the fate of sinners will be. The eternal fire which brought Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes is the fire that will exterminate sinners at the end.

That in no way supports the theory of the immortality of the soul.

The CITIES were overthrown permanently, not the men.

DoctorAlien:


"...the soul that sinneth shall die" Ezek. 18:4.

Since all men die, this refers not to the death of separation soul and body but separation of soul from God in judgement. Jesus tasted this death for all men when He cried out on he cross and shortly gave up the ghost:

But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while [by taking on the limitations of humanity], crowned with glory and honor because of His suffering of death, so that by the grace of God [extended to sinners] He might experience death for [the sins of] everyone.
Hebrews 2:9

Scholar8200:

47 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, throw it out [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It would be better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm [that feeds on the dead] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:47,48

Sodom and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today?

Check 2 Pet. 2:6. The eternal fire that will burn the wicked is a fire that will not be put out till it completes its work of total and complete annihilation of sin, sinners and the devil.

Scholar8200:
Immortality is not the same as Eternal Life!

If they are not the same, who has immortality and who has eternal life?

Scholar8200:

The CITIES were overthrown permanently, not the men.

Are you saying the fire affected only the buildings and trees in the city, but did not affect the men?

Scholar8200:
Now that the devil has been in operation since Genesis till now, does that mean he has Eternal Life loaned him?

The devil is a spirit, and so cannot die physical death. However, the Bible teaches that GOD will destroy him together with sinners at the end.

DoctorAlien:


Sodom and Gomorrah burned with eternal fire. Are they still burning today?

The inhabitants are still burning today. The word Eternal means exactly what it connotes: Everlasting
http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/166.htm

Check 2 Pet. 2:6. The eternal fire that will burn the wicked is a fire that will not be put out till it completes its work of total and complete annihilation of sin, sinners and the devil.

and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;
2 Peter 2:6
This place makes no mention of Eternal fire that's because the burning down of the city (physical structures) to ashes is emphasized, just as we may say Noah's flood destroyed the world then but was that the end of the souls that were destroyed? NO

19 in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.
1 Peter 3:19,20
(The means and purpose of that preaching was of course not for salvation)

That prison,is the bottomless pit aka Hell Revelations 9:2,3,11

DoctorAlien:


The devil is a spirit, and so cannot die physical death. However, the Bible teaches that GOD will destroy him together with sinners at the end.

41 “Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Leave Me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels (demons);

46 Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Matthew 25:41,46

Eternal-Unending.

Straight and simple if there are no personal interpretations to advance.


Reminder:

Scholar8200:

47 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, throw it out [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]! It would be better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48 where their worm [that feeds on the dead] does not die, and the fire is not put out.
Mark 9:47,48
Isn't it funny, the man is annihilated but his worms are not!!! Sir, both will live through it!

DoctorAlien:


Are you saying the fire affected only the buildings and trees in the city, but did not affect the men?

Jude shows us that the men were not only destroyed, but that, like their flood victim counterparts, they are still under judgement at present.

Scholar8200:

Choosing one out of a number of synonyms is questionable! Especially when the view given by such choice clearly contradicts the Whole Picture as given by the Word. Besides, when will this destruction take place since the devil is still very active today.

do you now admit Heb 2:14 prove Satan will be destroyed ? thats the point

Rather, I would say the synonym ( you chose out of many) suggests that

suggests that ? so u know

even though we all know spirits do not die.

only Jesus the Lord of lords and King of kings is given immortality among the host of spirit angelic beings { 1 tim 3:16 } therefore they can die , they are not immortal , infact Satan will be brought to nothing.

Explain this in the light of your claim:
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Matthew 25:46

the greek word KOLASIn in this verse denotes " cutting off " , so its very clear that the wicked will be cut off from life , while the righteous receive everlasting life .

John 3:16 " that everyone putting faith in him might not be DESTROYED but have everlasting life " plain and simple, its either everlasting life or " everlasting destruction" 2 the 1:9

The false prophet is not the antichrist, the beast is. The Lake of Fire is literally:

oga, if the beast SYMBOLIZE the antichrist , then how can a symbolic beast be thrown into a literal Lake of fire ?

8 But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8

but the verse said , which is the second DEATH. destruction.

dont forget that the GRAVE will also be casted into this same Lake of fire ? those in Rev 21:8 have the same end with Grave , does it mean Grave will be burned forever too ?

Explain that passage in Matthew 25:46 at least that one is not in Revelations and it says the same thing as regards a continual state of torment! Contrary to your rather aloof stance of annihilation!

already explained!

Babylon is not a personality that's wrong application!

the point is clear, its torment is explained as Destruction

are death and Grave personalities too, so what happen to them in the Lake of fire ?

If we will be true to the passage in question, you wont need to ask this. Already I said there was a great gulf fixed between both places. Besides, http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2859.htm shows that the word bosom has a synonym and usage that supports place. Reason! How would angels carry a man to another man's chest!!! The place can be rendered Abraham's bay just as we have a place in the Temple then called Solomon's porch.

good you are now reasoning , if u take it literal it means Lazarus was carried to the chest of Abraham himself . @ Gen 16:5 , its clear that the bossom of Abraham is the bossom of the man Abraham .

Scholar8200:
Since all men die, this refers not to the death of separation soul and body but separation of soul from God in judgement. Jesus tasted this death for all men when He cried out on he cross and shortly gave up the ghost.

Does the Bible teach that the soul is an entity separate from the body?

"And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

When GOD finished creating man, he was just a structure of dust. The soul had not come into existence. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. Therefore, the body plus the breath of life is the soul.

Note also that the Bible says man "became" a living soul. It did not say man "had" a living soul.

Therefore, the teaching that the soul is a separate entity in man is unbiblical.

Scholar8200:
The inhabitants are still burning today.

Where are they burning?

DoctorAlien:


Does the Bible teach that the soul is an entity separate from the body?

"And the LORD GOD formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

When GOD finished creating man, he was just a structure of dust. The soul had not come into existence. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and man became a living soul. Therefore, the body plus the breath of life is the soul.

What meaneth this:

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28

If you are right, it should mean that he that kills the body has killed the soul too!!!

Note also that the Bible says man "became" a living soul. It did not say man "had" a living soul.

Therefore, the teaching that the soul is a separate entity in man is unbiblical.

Read and discern:

For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as [b]the division of the [c]soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

Scholar8200:
like their flood victim counterparts, they are still under judgement at present.

Where are they under judgment?

Scholar8200:

That passage reads dead body.

objection! the hebrew word NEPHESH /soul " appeared in that passage NOT body .

again, Dead Soul .

Besides, [size=25] Adam was alive and breathing before God breathed into him [/size],. Death was when he lost that Divine Inspiration and his soul was separate from God but he was still physically alive. That is the death of a soul - existence outside God.

a lie will àlways lead to further lie, can you support your claim that Adam was alive and breathing before God breath life into his Nostrils with scripture ?

Scholar8200:

What meaneth this:

28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matthew 10:28

If you are right, it should mean that he that kills the body has killed the soul too!!!

Do you not believe in the resurrection of the wicked unto their second and final death? The Bible clearly teaches that the wicked will be raise again (after the millenium) to their total and complete annihilation. See Rev. 20:5

CANTICLES:
Scholar8200:

Choosing one out of a number of synonyms is questionable! Especially when the view given by such choice clearly contradicts the Whole Picture as given by the Word. Besides, when will this destruction take place since the devil is still very active today.
CANTICLES:
do you now admit Heb 2:14 prove Satan will be destroyed ? thats the point

NO!

only Jesus the Lord of lords and King of kings is given immortality among the[b] host of spirit angelic beings { 1 tim 3:16 } therefore they can die , they are not immortal[/b] , infact Satan will be brought to nothing.

Interesting! So, who are the highlighted:

in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.
1 Peter 3:19,20

and

[a]For if God did not [even] spare angels that sinned, but threw them into [b]hell and sent them to pits of gloom to be kept [there] for judgment;
2 Peter 2:4

SCH:
Explain this in the light of your claim:
Then these [unbelieving people] will go away into eternal (unending) punishment, but those who are righteous and in right standing with God [will go, by His remarkable grace] into eternal (unending) life.”
Matthew 25:46

CAN:
the greek word KOLASIn in this verse denotes " cutting off " , so its very clear that the wicked will be cut off from life , while the righteous receive everlasting life .

you are WRONG!!!
http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2851.htm tells me kolasis means punishment, torment. Mind showing us your Greek source for the meaning of that word?

SCH:
The false prophet is not the antichrist, the beast is. The Lake of Fire is literally:

CAN:
oga, if the beast SYMBOLIZE the antichrist , then how can a symbolic beast be thrown into a literal Lake of fire ?

Beast=Antichrist=Person; that Person (who has all those titles) is the one that will be thrown into the lake of fire.

SCH:
8 But as for the cowards and unbelieving and abominable [who are devoid of character and personal integrity and practice or tolerate immorality], and murderers, and sorcerers [with intoxicating drugs], and idolaters and occultists [who practice and teach false religions], and all the liars [who knowingly deceive and twist truth], their part will be in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8

CAN
but the verse said , which is the second DEATH. destruction.

Yes, but not the death of separation of soul from body!

dont forget that the GRAVE will also be casted into this same Lake of fire ? those in Rev 21:8 have the same end with Grave , does it mean Grave will be burned forever too ?

YES!

SCH:
Explain that passage in Matthew 25:46 at least that one is not in Revelations and it says the same thing as regards a continual state of torment! Contrary to your rather aloof stance of annihilation!

CAN:
already explained!

quote it here then.

the point is clear, its torment is explained as Destruction

are death and Grave personalities too, so what happen to them in the Lake of fire ?

Revelations is silent on that, I will be too. Those that were mentioned as personalities-devil, beast, false prophet, sinners- will be tormented therein.

SCH:
If we will be true to the passage in question, you wont need to ask this. Already I said there was a great gulf fixed between both places. Besides, http://biblehub.com/strongs/greek/2859.htm shows that the word bosom has a synonym and usage that supports place. Reason! How would angels carry a man to another man's chest!!! The place can be rendered Abraham's bay just as we have a place in the Temple then called Solomon's porch.
CAN:
good you are now reasoning , if u take it literal it means Lazarus was carried to the chest of Abraham himself . @ Gen 16:5 , its clear that the bossom of Abraham is the bossom of the man Abraham .

Why not run to the Greek like you did above? Why stay with the translation in English perhaps because that one favours you.

Scholar8200:
Read and discern:

For the word of God is living and active and full of power [making it operative, energizing, and effective]. It is sharper than any two-edged sword, penetrating as far as the division of the [c]soul and spirit [the completeness of a person], and of both joints and marrow [the deepest parts of our nature], exposing and judging the very thoughts and intentions of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12

Does this in any way support the claim that the soul is a separate, immortal entity?

DoctorAlien:


Do you not believe in the resurrection of the wicked unto their second and final death? The Bible clearly teaches that the wicked will be raise again (after the millenium) to their total and complete annihilation. See Rev. 20:5

29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].
John 5:29

Paul explains further thus:

9 There will be tribulation and anguish [torturing confinement] for every human soul who does [or permits] evil, to the Jew first and also to the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and inner peace [will be given] to everyone who habitually does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
Romans 2:9,10



QED

CANTICLES:


objection! the hebrew word NEPHESH /soul " appeared in that passage NOT body .

again, Dead Soul .

Here is what I find:

From naphash; properly, a breathing creature, i.e. Animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental) -- any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead(-ly), desire, X (dis-)contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart(-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortally, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-)self, them (your)-selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it

STrong's concordance

a lie will àlways lead to further lie, can you support your claim that Adam was alive and breathing before God breath life into his Nostrils with scripture ?

That's easy! Was Adam a lifeless corpse after God created him? What about the fishes and birds and animals who were without that Divine operation? Where they not alive?

When God said that if Adam eat the forbidden fruit, he will die. Did Adam drop dead? Or was Satan right when he said,"thou shall not die"? NO

They died immediately(not separation of soul from body)- they lost that Divine Breath by which they were Illuminated with the Life of God.

DoctorAlien:


Does this in any way support the claim that the soul is a separate, immortal entity?

Yeah, sure. Now let's see further the experience of Paul:

I know a [a]man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know that such a man—[b]whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows— 4 was caught up into [c]Paradise and heard inexpressible words which man is not permitted to speak [words too sacred to tell]
2 Corinth 12:2-4

Now it takes one who knows the separability of soul and body to so speak (remember this was Inspired).

Scholar8200:
Interesting! So, who are the highlighted:

in which He also went and preached to the spirits now in prison, 20 who once were disobedient, when the great patience of God was waiting in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons [Noah’s family], were brought safely through the water.
1 Peter 3:19,20

Christ, through the Holy Spirit in Noah preached to and pleaded with men when Noah was building the ark. Note the bolded part in the text above. The preaching happened during the building of the ark. It does not in any way imply that those souls are still alive today.

Also, the word "now" as bolded above does not appear in the King James Version. It only appears in the NASB and the NAS1977 versions. All these versions were translated from the KJV.

KJV reads: "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1 Pet. 3:19.

The spirits were in the prison of sin, not in a physical prison.

Scholar8200:
That's easy! Was Adam a lifeless corpse after God created him?

Are you trying to say Adam was alive before GOD breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life"?(Gen. 2:7)

DoctorAlien:


Christ, through the Holy Spirit in Noah preached to and pleaded with men when Noah was building the ark. Note the bolded part in the text above. The preaching happened during the building of the ark. It does not in any way imply that those souls are still alive today.

Also, the word "now" as bolded above does not appear in the King James Version. It only appears in the NASB and the NAS1977 versions. All these versions were translated from the KJV.

KJV reads: "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;" 1 Pet. 3:19.

The spirits were in the prison of sin, not in a physical prison.

Not good enough.

by which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;{The spirits here have already separated from the body such usage being in agreement with other similar passages, and the preceeding verse shows it was an action that took place after the death of Christ and was carried out by Him, not Noah. Besides, where does the Bible describe man as spirits or sinners as spirits in prison?}

20 which sometime were disobedient{past tense}, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah{long time ago. Besides, why use a proper noun here having used a pronoun before if both referred to the same person?}, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
1 Peter 3:19,20
(commentaries mine).

DoctorAlien:


Are you trying to say Adam was alive before GOD breathed into his nostrils the "breath of life"?(Gen. 2:7)

Are you saying he was a corpse?

Scholar8200:
Yeah, sure. Now let's see further the experience of Paul:

I know a [a]man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I know that such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, [only] God knows— 4 was caught up into [c]Paradise and heard inexpressible words which man is not permitted to speak [words too sacred to tell]
2 Corinth 12:2-4

Was the soul ever mentioned in that text?

Somebody can be in the spirit and caught up by GOD. See Rev. 1:10.

But that does not in anyways support your claim of the immortality of the soul.

Scholar8200:
Are you saying he was a corpse?

You can call him a corpse, yeah. The Bible is very clear that Adam was lifeless after GOD created him. Then GOD breathed into his nostrils, and he became a living soul. (Gen. 2:7)

DoctorAlien:


Was the soul ever mentioned in that text?

Somebody can be in the spirit and caught up by GOD. See Rev. 1:10.

But that does not in anyways support your claim of the immortality of the soul.

What did Stephen mean by this:

59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
Acts 7:59

Let your explanation agree with the verse below:

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Revelations 6:9