Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,201,658 members, 7,979,231 topics. Date: Saturday, 19 October 2024 at 12:48 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe (1118988 Views)
Arsenal Vs Bayern Munich : UCL (2 - 0) On 20th October 2015 / Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 / Manchester United Fan Thread: Champions Of England! (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (439) (440) (441) (442) (443) (444) (445) ... (1045) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 9:54pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: This was my first post on the issue....notice I didn't say Sam allardyce or Sunday oliseh |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Eruditor: 9:54pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: It's unfortunate if you felt my emphasis on the sextuple or in calling Pep a genius and Enrique a great coach was based on semantics. What I would rather term as equally stuppid will be the notion that Tito winning just a league title, Tata winning nothing, and Enrique winning 5 out of 6 trophies is synonymous with replicating Pep's success. It is also superficial. That Dead Cockroach won a league title when the Almighty Mou went trophyless in the same season with RM. So maybe that Dead Roach, is better than Mou? If Pep breaking Jupp's record of winning the league with 7 games to go and adding the DFB-Pokal to it in his first season as well as playing a UCL semi-final is not him replicating some of his success at Barca, then I am lost for words. Mou deserves his credit for winning the UCL with Porto and Inter, and whether another coach will replicate his success there is time based. Since Pep left Barca, they have won the UCL just once- last year, which means it is a stretch to say Barca continueS (now employing semantics)to win in his absence except you let me borrow from your school of reasoning and say that since RDM won a UCL with CFC (what Mou couldn't do) then every other achievement Mou had with Chelsea could easily be replicated. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 9:55pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Those players you called stars most were not stars before they met Pep. Xavi was said to be too slow and to tiny yo play midfield, Busquets wasnt the typical DM and Messi improved greatly after meeting him Luis Enrique got an all star team, Sacchi got an all star team |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 9:56pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Don't dumb it down please. Jose didn't have the strongest team in the world at his disposal. The fact remains that Jose won domestic trophies in Spain and England with teams that weren't the overwhelming favourites for the title. Barca and Bayern are expected to do a domestic sweep, expectations which are rooted in the facts that they are the best teams in their leagues. When Pep has had to face opposition where he didn't have control of the overwhelming favourites for the title, he had failed...unlike Jose So why is Pep special? |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 9:58pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: I doubt anyone has argued player quality isnt more imprtant than coaching. Its like F1 Is the quality of vehicle not more important than the driver? So why do they give someone the F1 champion of the world? After Pep Barca hasnt met the standard of Pep. Pep after 4 yrs is still the gold standard for barcelona and the whole world Teams are trying to mould their team to play like Pep of 2009 and not like Mourinho of 2010, 2013, 2012 or 2015 2 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 9:59pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: You can tell this to those too young to remember 2009 Dayo. That 2008 semi final was so tight and we had to play nearly perfect football to scrape through, that Barca team in 09 was surely top 5 and I was full of trepidation before the final |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:01pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Between 2004 and 2007 How many teams were stronger than Mourinhos Chelsea between 2011 and 2013 how many teams were stronger than Mourinhos Madrid No one expected Barca of 2009 who have finished trophyless 18points behind league leaders and sold their superstars to make a domestic sweep Chelsea was favourite for every title in England from 2005-07 they were favoirite to win in 2015, Inter was favourite to win the Serie A every season Mourinho was there you can disprove any of these assertions |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by sebod(m): 10:02pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist:Yea, just seeing that you guys have really moved far. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:06pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: 2008 Barca had Ronaldinho and Deco which 2009 didn't rather they got replacements who were seen as inferior to them Barca of 2008 finished 3rd behind Villareal |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 10:06pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Eruditor:I think you lack basic comprehensive skills. The point here is that Barca are a team so strong that even when their manager was dying, and they were managerless In a manner of speaking, they were still able to romp to the title. Vilanova's successors were able to replicate Pep's success in varying degrees despite a crucial lack of winning experience. How many managers win the Apex league of a major European country at first attempt? How many won the European trophy at first attempt? How many coaches did this with a team not called Barca? The rest of your post is either irrelevant or hot garbage. I can see you going on about some cockroach or what not. Please don't quote me again |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by GBR1(m): 10:11pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2:Good you said this. Fergie with a strong United team then had to play very defensive to go through. Basically the Barcelona pre Pep wasn't mediocre exactly; it was more of a case of underachieving though Pep deserves credit for a lot of other things. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 10:11pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Ronaldinho was finished and a non factor in 2008. And Barca of 2008 finishing 3rd shows that the team was not as good as the 2009 team esp cos the 2009 team had already being crowned champions of Spain with weeks to spare by the time they faced us. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 10:13pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
GBR1: Gbaski The thing Is Pep is definitely a good coach. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 10:14pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Dayo by the time Barca faced us they had scored 105 goals in the league alone and you want to lie to the younglings here that they were underdogs? Your 419 no be here 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:15pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Who were the difference between 08 and 09 Out Ronaldinho Zambrotaa Deco Emilson Oleguer In Hleb Pique, Caceres, Dani Alves and Seydou keita Those were the ttransfers made others were players already there or youth team players Aside this, The difference between the 08 squad who finished 18 points behind and the 09 squad who won the league with 9 points and the treble was Pep Guardiola 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by sebod(m): 10:15pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist:The point is that there wouldn't have even been a team so strong without Pep. He got a losing team that finished 3rd on the log, transformed the team, made the team strong and won it all in the process. The team he made strong became the bench mark of football. 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:18pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: If you want to make jest lets just start 2009 finals Barca missed 2 key defenders, They missed both full backs Dani Alves, and Abidal they missed Marquez due to injury and had to play Sylvinho as LB, Puyol as RB and Yaya as CB Vs Man Utd who wasnt missing any major player 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 10:22pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
sebod: No doubt he put the team together, but this was mainly a team of already existing world class talent. Dayo is mentioning Hleb and Caeceres. How many games did they play? Sebod, the talent was already on ground, the talent already knew try Barca way. Pep just happened to be there at the time. Bar Tata, Pep's successors have been Barca insiders. One could argue that Any single one of them could have been Pep. I mean look at Donkey Enrique, sacked from 2 clubs, all of a sudden winning back to back trophies in 2 seasons. Come on mehn... |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by GBR1(m): 10:22pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter:Arsenal were just coming off from a record season and and Ancelloti's Milan were still dominant in Europe Barcelona were still definately stronger. I believe you meant 2008 here and Madrid their major rival were not exactly excellent. Their struggles in Europe show that but Barcelona's incompetence then made them appear better then. Chelsea was favourite for every title in England from 2005-07 they were favoirite to win in 2015, Inter was favourite to win the Serie A every season Mourinho was thereThe entirety of this is false. You have made very good points though and there's no guarantee mine would stand. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:25pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Before the 09 season definitely Man Utd the defending champions, Chelsea the runner up and Liverpool , Madrid who had schooled them domestically. There were still the Italians like Milan and Inter barca at the start of 2009 was a team building again. No one would expect a team rebuilding with a rookie coach to win in Europe |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 10:26pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: He was replacing a mediocre coach in Rijkaard. Actually the fact that Rijkaard (an otondo who was sacked after relegating Sparta for the first time in its history, sacked by Saudi Arabia after losing to Iraq and Kuwait, sacked after failing at Galatasaray) was able to go to multiple semi finals and even win the champs league with Barca tells you about the quality of players Barca has had for the last 10yrs In which other clubs have Tata Martino, Luis Enrique, Tito Villanova or Frank Rikaard succeeded as managers? |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:27pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
GBR1: Let people who understand what they are typing and have a deeper knowledge of the game post you can stay by the sidelines or pick your size 3 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 10:29pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
GBR1 you shouldn't have answered that Dayo's trick question jare I don't think you know this Egbon very well. 04 Chelsea were upstarts winning their first league title in 54 years, yet Dayo says we were favourites...favourites for what? Milan were probably the strongest team in Europe then with Sheva in direct competion Raul competing for UCL top scorer boot. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by sebod(m): 10:29pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2:Man U were clearly the favourite as the defending champions. They had a full squad as against a Barca team that had Iniesta playing on injection, and have to improvise with Sylvinho and Puyol playing as the full backs. 1 Like |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:32pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
afrodoc2: Regardless of what you say about Rijkaard he won the CL after 14yrs and brought Barca back into European forefront Pep himself was a rookie a rookie who became a legend in so short a time abeg if he is no genius then no coach should be called a genius then 3 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Eruditor: 10:32pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: I don't lack anything. Your dead Roach metaphor was Tito on his sick bed winning a title. I am surprised nobody called you out for the disingenuousness of not correlating how Pep's assistant who had the template but was lacking only in health and Je ne sais quoi could steer his already made team to another title. Tito's successors save Enrique didn't replicate anything Pep did and I called you out again for the hollowness of that assertion. The needless rhetorics and defensive retorts will only intimidate people who take note of certain monikers before responding. Perhaps, if quoting your post was the hallmark of true success in life, maybe only the NLders in the football section will be successful. |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 10:34pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Let me simplify Nihilist point. All these FAILURES as managers come to Barca and suddenly start winning titles and they go elsewhere and continue as failures This makes us believe that you do not have to be a genius to be extra successful in Barca. U only have to be good or great. IF FAILURES CAN BECOME SUCCESSFUL IN BARCA THEN ANYONE CAN |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by GBR1(m): 10:34pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist:There is not doubt about this though. One could give the team he used to someone else with all factors/variables remaining constant and the that individual might not achieve even half of what he did. To this he deserves a lot of credit but when it's a stretch too far to argue it's not debatable. raumdeuter:I see you're still butt hurt regards previous debates you got schooled in. Don't worry; i won't rub it your face, but i would advise you move on from it as i have done. 3 Likes |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by afrodoc2: 10:36pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
sebod: I am a Man Utd fan and I remember how tensed I was that day. I was more confident in in 99 and 08, in 2011 I was relaxed cos I knew we would lose |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:36pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
Nihilist: Chelsea finished second in 04, made the CL semi On top of that the Next season got Mourinho(A CL winning coach) spent the most money in Europe bought Drogba(one of the best strikers in Europe) bought carvalho, Bought Cech, Paolo Ferreira, Arjen Robben Chelsea were spending money and no one in Europe could match them |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by raumdeuter: 10:42pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
GBR1: When you see people with more knowledge debating the logical thing to do is to sit back and learn. its not all the time afrodoc would come out to discuss football, when you are now privileged to see him and Nihilist debating on the same topic at the same time, any one who wants to improve would sit back and take note from their wealth of facts not butting in when you are clearly out of your depth At least you haven't seen any of them quoting 1.1 win ratio or editing their posts after being caught out. Not insisting the "I cannot own up to being wrong" Thats the way to increase your knowledge |
Re: Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe by Nihilist: 10:43pm On Apr 29, 2016 |
raumdeuter: Only carvalho and Ferreira was really 'known' from Portos victory the year before Drogba one of the best strikers in Europe You might as well say Dado Prso was the world best. Egbon you can lie for Africa |
(1) (2) (3) ... (439) (440) (441) (442) (443) (444) (445) ... (1045) (Reply)
R36L Madrid - Most Successful & Greatest Champ15ns of Spain, Europe & W8rld / EPL Chatroom - All Discussions / Arsenal Fans Thread: Finally Reborn! The Red & White Army: FA CUP Champions 2020
Viewing this topic: 1 guest(s)
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 1 |