raumdeuter:


I presume the argument is about Peps time at Barcelona? How did Ferguson meet expectation at Man Utd and Pep didnt at Barcelona?

In Europe, Ferguson didn't manage one of the best teams, though he managed a very good team... Pep is currently managing the club team currently ranked the 2nd best in Europe, and was previously managing the best team in the world.

http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

raumdeuter:


I presume the argument is about Peps time at Barcelona? How did Ferguson meet expectation at Man Utd and Pep didnt at Barcelona?

any manager dat wins d ucl in his first year in charge of a team should covertly praise the personnel dat made up d team not his own tactics or strategy...dats where d profiles of some coaches tend to work against them.

ferguson laboured hard before he achieved...pep should thank his triumvirate (xavi iniesta messi) for his achievement with barcelona

Nihilist:
Bundesliga was founded in 1963.

Bayern has won the league 24 times times. The clubs with the next highest number of bundesliga wins and are still plying their trade in the same league are Gladbach and Dortmund with 5 wins apiece.

I think it goes without saying that winning the league with Bayern is not an 'achievement'.

The only place Bayern can 'achieve' is in Europe, and on that front, Pep has failed...3 times in a row like Tk n Cash.

This is not an 'opinion. It is a cold hard fact.

The premier league was formed in 1992, Man Utd has won more than all other clubs combined together

I think it goes without saying that winning the league with Man utd is not a achievement

raumdeuter:


The premier league was formed in 1992, Man Utd has won more than all other clubs combined together

I think it goes without saying that winning the league with Man utd is not a achievement

The level of opposition in EPL and Bayern are different.

That's why there was a 'big four' at one point.

In Germany, it's a big 'one'

Nihilist:

In Europe, Ferguson didn't manage one of the best teams, though he managed a very good team... Pep is currently managing the club team currently ranked the 2nd best in Europe, and was previously managing the best team in the world.

http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

Actually you are wrong, Man Utd in late 90 and early 2000 were a top ranked European team

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method2/trank2001.html

And Fergie also managed the best team in the world

As at 2000 how many teams in Europe were better than Man Utd? Man Utd was playing Madrid in the quarter final and Madrid was firm underdog. There was no Barca at that time either. So who were the teams better than Man Utd in 2000

Nihilist:
The level of opposition in EPL and Bayern are different.

That's why there was a 'big four' at one point.

In Germany, it's a big 'one'

For most of Fergies tenure at Man Utd who were the big 4? Blackburn Newcastle or what? 1986-2005 a period of almost 20yrs who were these big 4?

There was no bigger Big 1 than EPL for most of Fergies tenure

.

raumdeuter:


Actually you are wrong, Man Utd in late 90 and early 2000 were a top ranked European team

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method2/trank2001.html

And Fergie also managed the best team in the world

As at 2000 how many teams in Europe were better than Man Utd? Man Utd was playing Madrid in the quarter final and Madrid was firm underdog. There was no Barca at that time either. So who were the teams better than Man Utd in 2000

You're yapping up the wrong tree.

I have already insisted that Manyoo had a team good enough to win in Europe in 1999....

Plus I'm sure you can see from the link YOU posted that Madrid were ranked higher than Manyoo in 1999, 2000 and 2001.

Congratulations, you just played yourself

lekkie073:
any manager dat wins d ucl in his first year in charge of a team should covertly praise the personnel dat made up d team not his own tactics or strategy...dats where d profiles of some coaches tend to work against them.

ferguson laboured hard before he achieved...pep should thank his triumvirate (xavi iniesta messi) for his achievement with barcelona

I have already shown that most of those who won the CL for Pep were either new players or previously ignored players in Barcelona

Pep made the triumvirate legendary because before him no one was talking about any triumvirate. He gave them a new tactic and won like no one has ever done in Barcelona history

lekkie073:
any manager dat wins d ucl in his first year in charge of a team should covertly praise the personnel dat made up d team not his own tactics or strategy...dats where d profiles of some coaches tend to work against them.

ferguson laboured hard before he achieved...pep should thank his triumvirate (xavi iniesta messi) for his achievement with barcelona

Are you saying if Mou takes over Arsenal and wins the UCL next season, he should not be praised, but the players should get the credit?
That means if Pep takes over Man U too and wins the UCL in his 1st season, Rooney, Carrick and co should get the praise. No?

raumdeuter:


For most of Fergies tenure at Man Utd who were the big 4? Blackburn Newcastle or what? 1986-2005 a period of almost 20yrs who were these big 4?

There was no bigger Big 1 than EPL for most of Fergies tenure

This is stale...I advise you to go back re-read my earlier posts, cos everything has been explained.

The Majority of Feruson's tenure in EPL, he had the better squad, and was thus expected to win in EPL....and he delivered.

Compare to Bayern.

Of Europe's big three leagues, the Bundesliga is the least competitive when measured in this way. Since the establishment of a national league in England in 1888, Manchester United, England's winningest team, has captured 20 titles. That's 16 percent of the total. In Spain, things are worse than in England. Real Madrid has won 32 La Liga titles; Barca has 22. That's about 38 and 26 percent, respectively. In the Bundesliga, the teams just behind Bayern—BvB and Borussia Mönchengladbach—have each won five championships, or ten percent of the league's titles.

You might argue that recent history proves otherwise. The last ten years saw four different league champions in Germany. But that's not really the point. Bayern's supremacy is the problem. The club won six of those ten titles.

Please join me to burnthisleaguedown.

Nihilist:


You're yapping up the wrong tree.

I have already insisted that Manyoo had a team good enough to win in Europe in 1999....

Plus I'm sure you can see from the link YOU posted that Madrid were ranked higher than Manyoo in 1999, 2000 and 2001.

Congratulations, you just played yourself

Nihilist:

In Europe, Ferguson didn't manage one of the best teams, though he managed a very good team... Pep is currently managing the club team currently ranked the 2nd best in Europe, and was previously managing the best team in the world.
http://www.ecaeurope.com/tabbed-content/club-ranking/

I wonder who posted the bold

raumdeuter:


For most of Fergies tenure at Man Utd who were the big 4? Blackburn Newcastle or what? 1986-2005 a period of almost 20yrs who were these big 4?

There was no bigger Big 1 than EPL for most of Fergies tenure

This is stale...I advise you to go back re-read my earlier posts, cos everything has been explained.

The Majority of Feruson's tenure in EPL, he had the better squad, and was thus expected to win in EPL....and he delivered.

Compare to Bayern.

Consider the league's history. Bayern has won 23 of 50 Bundesliga titles. (It will probably win its 24th this season.) Put differently, Bayern wins the Bundesliga 46 percent of the time. The league's 17 other teams almost always look up at the Bavarians.

Of Europe's big three leagues, the Bundesliga is the least competitive when measured in this way. Since the establishment of a national league in England in 1888, Manchester United, England's winningest team, has captured 20 titles. That's 16 percent of the total. In Spain, things are worse than in England. Real Madrid has won 32 La Liga titles; Barca has 22. That's about 38 and 26 percent, respectively. In the Bundesliga, the teams just behind Bayern—BvB and Borussia Mönchengladbach—have each won five championships, or ten percent of the league's titles.

You might argue that recent history proves otherwise. The last ten years saw four different league champions in Germany. But that's not really the point. Bayern's supremacy is the problem. The club won six of those ten titles.

Please join me to burnthisleaguedown.

Nihilist:


This is stale...I advise you to go back re-read my earlier posts, cos everything has been explained.

The Majority of Feruson's tenure in EPL, he had the better squad, and was thus expected to win in EPL....and he delivered.

Compare to Bayern.



Please join me to burnthisleaguedown.

there have been league football in Germany before 1963. Thats why German teams were playing in the European cup way before 1963

If you are taking English league from 1888 and not 1992, then you should take Germany too from 1903

24 seasons of Premier league, 13 times Man Utd won 54% of Premier league titles

raumdeuter:



I wonder who posted the bold

In General, Ferguson's manyoo team was not the best team in the world and will never be spoken about in the same way as say Pep's Barca or Ancelotti's Milan.

However when it comes to a specific time frame, particularly the year 1999, I have insisted that United were definitely good enough to win in Europe, something which was backed up by the link you ironically posted to counter me.

Dayo give it up. You are clutching at straws here....You've literally got nothing on me!

raumdeuter:


there have been league football in Germany before 1963. Thats why German teams were playing in the European cup way before 1963

If you are taking English league from 1888 and not 1992, then you should take Germany too from 1903

24 seasons of Premier league, 13 times Man Utd won 54% of Premier league titles

yawnnn

This was 3 pages ago.

Nihilist:


Now you're shifting the argument. You were previously speaking about the league up until 1999 and mentioned players like Stam, Yorke and Blomquist.. hence I also focused on that Era.

If we move to the Modern Era, I think that there's still a very good argument that Ferguson had the best squad or at the worst on par with his opposition

And anytime there was a better or equal team, Ferguson forfeited the title. Against Jose twice. Against Mancini. Against Ancelotti. I don't think Arsenal had a ever had a better squad than Manyoo as Henry and Viera papered over a lot of cracks in that team IMO.

The only time Fergusons squad was weak to me was in his final season. Prior to that Ferguson managed a team that was either the best or one of the best in the league.

So what else should we expect from him?

Nihilist:
In General, Ferguson's manyoo team was not the best team in the world and will never be spoken about in the same way as say Pep's Barca or Ancelotti's Milan.

However when it comes to a specific time frame, particularly the year 1999, I have insisted that United were definitely good enough to win in Europe, something which was backed up by the link you ironically posted to counter me.

Dayo give it up. You are clutching at straws here....You've literally got nothing on me!

Pep made Barca the best team and the team people talk about. Thats why Peps Barca is the standard of all clubs from the past 2 decades

You are telling us Man Utd was good enough to win at the same time telling Man Utd was not a top team in Europe. Would you make up your mind?

raumdeuter:


Pep made Barca the best team and the team people talk about. Thats why Peps Barca is the standard of all clubs from the past 2 decades

You are telling us Man Utd was good enough to win at the same time telling Man Utd was not a top team in Europe. Would you make up your mind?

You dont have to be a top team to win in Europe...ask Leicester, or Atletico, or Chelsea.

Nihilist:
You dont have to be a top team to win in Europe...ask Leicester, or Atletico, or Chelsea.

Chelsea was a top team when they won in Europe and Atletico is currently a top team.

What has Leicester won in Europe

Fact is Man Utd in late 90's and early 2000 was a top team in Europe. They slumped in the mid 2000 but late 2000 they were back to being a top team

raumdeuter:


Chelsea was a top team when they won in Europe and Atletico is currently a top team.

What has Leicester won in Europe

Fact is Man Utd in late 90's and early 2000 was a top team in Europe. They slumped in the mid 2000 but late 2000 they were back to being a top team

Chelsea were a comparative top team in Europe the season they beat both Bayern and Barcelona? I didn't know that.

EPL is a European league. Leicester didn't win in in Mars bro.

I'm not sure what argument re Manyoo you're trying to make, when I made the exact same points you're making now like 3-4 pages ago.

Raumdeuter. Must. Try. Harder.

diggz:


Your objective here is to drag MOU into this, I assume.? If am wrong then,I apologize however,if am right pls my previous qxn still stands. Which is,what has Mou got to do with pep failing to get into the UCL finals after three seasons?

Abi na Mou b Bayern coach?

Ermmm... So the mucus in your eyes cleared only when it somehow saw Mourinho in my comment eh?
Hasn't this thread been filled with comments about Mourinho been better because Pep just lost to Atletico Madrid?
Meanwhile This same Simeone has defeated Mourinho in 2 separate knockout competitions back to back - Copa dey rel final(Real madrid) and UCL semi final (Chelsea)! And in these 3 games, he won twice in Mourinho's house!

Nihilist:
Chelsea were a comparative top team in Europe the season they beat both Bayern and Barcelona? I didn't know that.

EPL is a European league. Leicester didn't win in in Mars bro.

I'm not sure what argument re Manyoo you're trying to make, when I made the exact same points you're making now like 3-4 pages ago.

Raumdeuter. Must. Try. Harder.

Chelsea was a top team in 2012. In 2011, Chelsea was ranked 3rd in the UEFA club coefficient even ahead of bayern Madrid

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/season=2011/index.html

Dont try to play dumb, everyone know when we say Europe we mean in continental competitions

The argument is you cant say Fergie exceeded expectations at Man Utd while Pep did not exceed expectations at Barcelona

raumdeuter:


Chelsea was a top team in 2012. In 2011, Chelsea was ranked 3rd in the UEFA club coefficient even ahead of bayern Madrid

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/club/season=2011/index.html

Dont try to play dumb, everyone know when we say Europe we mean in continental competitions

The argument is you cant say Fergie exceeded expectations at Man Utd while Pep did not exceed expectations at Barcelona

From your very same link, I'm sure you can see that Chelsea was ranked 6th behind Barca, Madrid etc.

In 2012 when we won the the damn thing, we were level on points with Bayern and behind Barca, Madrid etc....And that's only because we won the UCL while finishing 6th in the league

So you can see that relative to the big boys, Chelsea was NOT a top club when we won it.

This is the second time your own links will let you down, unlike Kanye West

p.s When Lai Mohammed retires, You should lobby for his job. You have a good chance of getting it too

Nihilist:
From your very same link, I'm sure you can see that Chelsea was ranked 6th behind Barca, Madrid etc.

In 2012 when we won the the damn thing, we were level on points with Bayern and behind Barca, Madrid etc....And that's only because we won the UCL while finishing 6th in the league

So you can see that relative to the big boys, Chelsea was NOT a top club when we won it.

This is the second time your own links will let you down, unlike Kanye West

p.s When Lai Mohammed retires, You should lobby for his job. You have a good chance of getting it too

WHat are you looking at? In 2011 Chelsea was ranked 3rd in Europe same with in 2012

raumdeuter:


WHat are you looking at? In 2011 Chelsea was ranked 3rd in Europe same with in 2012

Old man, this is is 2016.

You need to learn to use the sort function on web resources

Nihilist:
Old man, this is is 2016.

You need to learn to use the sort function on web resources

Club ranking are a cumulative 5 yr score. Not just a 1yr thing where a fluke run can influence results. No one would say Barca are not a top club or at least not better than City as at 2016 because they got knocked out earlier than City or that Juventus isnt better than WOlfsburg as at 2016

raumdeuter:


Club ranking are a cumulative 5 yr score. Not just a 1yr thing where a fluke run can influence results. No one would say Barca are not a top club or at least not better than City as at 2016 because they got knocked out earlier than City or that Juventus isnt better than WOlfsburg as at 2016

Doesn't change the simple fact that Both Barca and Bayern were rated higher than Chelsea that year.

Nihilist:
Doesn't change the simple fact that Both Barca and Bayern were rated higher than Chelsea that year.

How was Bayern rated above Chelsea that year? No be you post those images again abi na film trick

raumdeuter:


How was Bayern rated above Chelsea that year? No be you post those images again abi na film trick

depends on how you sort it sir.

sebod:

At least, he did well by replying.
Then, I'd expected many to ask questions when someone claimed ''those guys were rubbish and still won the UCL''

Oya bro, can you please list out the players that were average in the team that rendered the team that won the UCL rubbish?

M not listing any , but those players are not average as he claimed.

Nihilist:


depends on how you sort it sir.

So Bayern is ahead of Chelsea alphabetically? brilliant

Well here Chelsea is ahead

raumdeuter:


So Bayern is ahead of Chelsea alphabetically? brilliant

Please direct your complaints to the webmaster of UEFA website sir.