joseph1832:
The bride price is not for my mum (women) so why should she return it? Lol.

I'm not saying it makes you the tail, I'm only saying such role as head of the family usually subject the woman to being dominated.

Leadership doesn't equate the super imposition of who is head, and who is tail, or who is in the middle. It equates the first of the first: Selflessness How many men of today to be selfless towards their wife's and kids, how many men today will put their wive first before them?.

You're right. . Those ones don't understand who a leader is especially as it concerns the family setting. ..

Marry your friend and lover.... and you wouldn't feel dominated or whatsoever. Both of you just flow... it's well...

ooops Buky just read your questions again

To answer question number 3
It cant work because
There are so many shades of grey inbetween providing and domestics .....

for example the man provides a gen and gives his wife an allowance for fuel.
If light goes at 2am in the morning, is it the wife who will go and switch on the gen as part of her domestic duties?

The man buys a goat for Xmas
Is it the wife who will slaughter the goat as part of her domestic duties while the man sits in the living room watching sky sports

The man pays kids school fees
The mans job is flexible and the wifes job isnt
will the man then not pick his kids up from school because its not under his domestic remit

If the woman sees a shirt she likes and buys it, should she claim back this money from her husband because he is the provider

If the woman sees a nice vase for the house, should she claim the money back from her husband?

PresVA:
You're right. . Those ones don't understand who a leader is especially as it concerns the family setting. ..

Marry your friend and lover.... and you wouldn't feel dominated or whatsoever. Both of you just flow... it's well...

All said and done.

tearoses:
Many people dont even understand what it is to be a leader
They think its just eating the biggest meat in the pot and being served hand and foot

Being leader is not beans
Some people don't even want to be leaders cos they know its not easy

A good leader puts his "subjects" first
Its about his "subjects" and not him
He listens
He steers
He takes calculated risks
He leads
He takes the blame when things go wrong
Being a leader has great responsibility
You are always the go to person 24/7
To lead effectively you must have so many qualities

Like I said, its not about beating your chest and saying I am the leader.
Show it!

Exactly! Distorted idea of leadership is one of the biggest problems in the world today and it emanates from the home as you have pointed out. A good leader doesn't even ask to be served or respected, it comes naturally.

Thanks y'all for keeping the thread moving...

Will be back

PresVA:
.. this one can't be shared or outsourced o...

Your description is a typical example of partnership in marriage, the marriage just flows...

However, I won't say that gender-role division has been completed eliminated because even as my husband can cook, I take up the role most of the times. .. then, I don't repair the Generator ettcc...some roles are still seen as gender-specific but couples should be able to take up any role if need be..

Have a good day dear

@bolded.... Surrogacy takes care of it.

MRBrownJ:


thats because the days of our forefather, when wives didnt work and TOOK CARE of the home, are over. the days where wifey was slave to whatever husband said because he brought home the cheddar are ALSO gone. now wifey is educated, has a job and brings home good money, therefore as much as many may not like it, wifey has equal right to make important decision for the wellbeing of the family. the golddiggers are the lazy ones looking for an easy/free ride, who have NOTHING to bring to a man's life and still wanna live "today" like our parents did (aka that well oiled enterprise called family). its over, impossible, this is a different era, and people are selfish.

I don't think it is selfishness to stick to gender roles if both parties are fine with it. Besides, some women still stay at home to care for the home front while the man provides.

MRBrownJ:
that Teebillz guy is an idiot (excuse my French), his wife is a superstar and therefore he cant seriously expect her to A) come home and cook dinner etc every night at a certain time, B) not have tons of assistant doing such chores for her and C) be any different, now that they are married, and miraculously turn into a full fledge housewife.

His expectations were clearly different

MRBrownJ:
there are 3 ways to look at this issue, the RELIGIOUS, SOCIETY and MODERN 21st century way.... so:
RELIGIOUS way, man is the head and sole authority regardless of who does/brings what.
SOCIETY way, they share equally the duties, but the husband remains the head of the family
MODERN way, whoever brings the most cheddar sings the tunes. so if wifey is out there making it then daddy should be home caring for the family and household etc. its all about what is BENEFICIAL to the family.

Okay

MRBrownJ:
its all about how she present herself and her mission. WHY she wants to marry/date such man and what she is bringing to the union. if his finances/status is the reason why she is attracted to that man then YES she is a GD, and she could be used as a trophy wife but she would still be expected to work just as hard. a few questions can quickly sort the GD from the real women.

A woman who wants to go the traditional route MUST consider finances important else how would they survive? She is bringing the domestics to the union

MRBrownJ:
in this day and age, why would anyone stay home? with kindergarten/washing machine/dishwashers and maids, being home all day by the time children are of preschool age, is a waste of life... and only a lazy person would wanna do that.

Some people believe only the mother is suitable to care for a toddler; some kids have special needs and require their parents esp mother closeby

MRBrownJ:
it depends on how that household is ruled.. is it the RELIGIOUS/SOCIETY or MODERN way? imho, she shouldnt.... but if she does then thats all because she desires it to be so (aka religious/society way)

True

Thanks

jadelyn007:
like it's the brides that actually collect these dubious sum of money for bride price. A male friends sister got married the other day and when I asked him why they didn't object to this ungodly bride price amount knowing he would eventually go through same, he said he didn't have a say in the matter. It was actually his uncles who decided.
You men perpetrate this exorbitant bribe price, how you turn around and blame it on the brides is totally beyond me!

its not the wwoman's fault that a man has to pay so much for her,i agree but you cant blame the man for thinking he owns the woman after paying so much..me think abolishing this idea of brideprice will go a long way to curtail this possession mentality.

Jamean:


like child bearing

the roles issue ehn tire me. I feel it should just be plug and play.. with each one doing the one they are better at and be liberal too.

For instance, I grew up with my dad doing his laundry, he felt my mum had a handful already with ours, he even did a lot of the ironing too. He washed dishes when we children made it look like rocket science. He was the procurement officer majorly in the early years of their marriage even till date, he buys even soup ingredients on his way from work.

Even till I was in secondary school he would help us fetch water when it got so scarce, was our janitor and handy man. He thought us all of our assignments even though he cared less about your grade. Infact he always mixed up our classes, while my mum followed up with your seriousness at school and spiritual life

But then, he didn't know how to nurse children, combine our clothes (he actually bought canvass and baby gown for us one Christmas) or arrange the house, he only knew how to cook beans and make Coffee He thought us how to draw and farm, mum thought us how to sew.

But that didn't stop him from providing to the best of his ability. Of course mum had her specialty too, she brought to the table as well. The one you both can't do and is essential please outsource it, this thing should be less of gender. You can imagine that my little sister is responsible for maintaining our generator when I have a brother but she can't even sweep like him. Every one according to his ability.

I think couples should plan and not have unrealistic expectations. Growing up this way I will have resentments for a man who will leave you to die with everything and still bring to the table.

Thanks a lot for sharing your parents' method with us.

cococandy:

Yea me too.

I'm sitting here waiting for someone who believes the man shouldn't pitch in with domestic work to come explain how it is fair to expect his wife to contribute financially to the home.

Lol! @ I am sitting here waiting.

bukatyne:


Lol! @ I am sitting here waiting.

I got tired of sitting and waiting. Now I'm standing and waiting

PresVA:
You're a clown ... Can we also say that women who sponsor their weddings own their husbands

Talk about bride price, who fixes the amount Who collects the money when paid No be men?
You men are the one that fix and collect bride price, so why complain? Also, For bride price to be scrapped, men (the elders) must be in support ...

So why all this fuss about bride price as if na d woman dey chop d money

if you say men are the head of the home, I agree..or say couple own each other as a virtue of the marriage institution, I agree too... not the property-owner thingy you just described...

Better still, I will even say they both have 'bought' each other life

it is he who paid for d expenses dat owns d oda.unfortunately,in nigeria it is men dat does d paying most times.pls dont abuse me if u must quote me

Eketem:
Some men want traditional women some women want traditional men. They should find each other get married and save us all this plenty debate jare.

Some women will die before they let their husbands cook or even change a diaper while some men will object to their wives contributing to family upkeep.

Modern women should be modern through and through this starts with rejection of the payment of bride price. A man practically buys a woman from her family and community in some areas, I saw one list almost a million or more self, he has to pay the whole community to marry the woman, some women would be flattered by that not understanding the significance of the process. A man who pays all that and does all the list thing would have some sort of feeling of ownership, he is expecting a woman who will play traditional roles not after paying and spending that much to have a woman shouting equality.

We women have to start from the Genesis of the inequality ; rejection of bride price and wedding list. The man has also been trained by his parents, what then is the justification of paying her family off to marry her? A marriage both of them are supposed to enjoy and build together.


I have heard women say they can only support their family at their discretion same way men would say they can only support in house work at his discretion too

It is a two way streak. If a couple wants to have some level of equality then start from the beginning, share bills and share roles.

Two grown adults should sort their marriage issues out.

I do not think Bride Price is the reason because we have places where women pay dowries to their husbands and they are still treated as 'inequals'.

Jamean:


like child bearing

the roles issue ehn tire me. I feel it should just be plug and play.. with each one doing the one they are better at and be liberal too.

For instance, I grew up with my dad doing his laundry, he felt my mum had a handful already with ours, he even did a lot of the ironing too. He washed dishes when we children made it look like rocket science. He was the procurement officer majorly in the early years of their marriage even till date, he buys even soup ingredients on his way from work.

Even till I was in secondary school he would help us fetch water when it got so scarce, was our janitor and handy man. He thought us all of our assignments even though he cared less about your grade. Infact he always mixed up our classes, while my mum followed up with your seriousness at school and spiritual life

But then, he didn't know how to nurse children, combine our clothes (he actually bought canvass and baby gown for us one Christmas) or arrange the house, he only knew how to cook beans and make Coffee He thought us how to draw and farm, mum thought us how to sew.

But that didn't stop him from providing to the best of his ability. Of course mum had her specialty too, she brought to the table as well. The one you both can't do and is essential please outsource it, this thing should be less of gender. You can imagine that my little sister is responsible for maintaining our generator when I have a brother but she can't even sweep like him. Every one according to his ability.

I think couples should plan and not have unrealistic expectations. Growing up this way I will have resentments for a man who will leave you to die with everything and still bring to the table.

Gbam!!! This is how it should be done... Though my parents weren't so lovey dovey but my dad didn't shy away from shopping and even cooking... Still provided and mum provided too... It didn't make him less of a man... Naija ppl should stop treating marriage like business

Bride price is not reason for a man thinking he owns a woman(these days atleast), religion is.


How much is this bride price that we no go hear word for? It's even ordinary one naira in some places sef.

Plus, it's not like the woman gets any share in the said BP, so why should any man think to put his wife through hell because he gave some villagers small change? Some men don't even pay any monies, some married the women on credit yet they treat these women like trash.


Since time immemorial, we've been hearing that women were made for men, just what do you think that tells the men?

tearoses:
ooops Buky just read your questions again

To answer question number 3
It cant work because
There are so many shades of grey inbetween providing and domestics .....

for example the man provides a gen and gives his wife an allowance for fuel.
If light goes at 2am in the morning, is it the wife who will go and switch on the gen as part of her domestic duties?

The man buys a goat for Xmas
Is it the wife who will slaughter the goat as part of her domestic duties while the man sits in the living room watching sky sports

The man pays kids school fees
The mans job is flexible and the wifes job isnt
will the man then not pick his kids up from school because its not under his domestic remit

If the woman sees a shirt she likes and buys it, should she claim back this money from her husband because he is the provider

If the woman sees a nice vase for the house, should she claim the money back from her husband?

Thank you for this great response. It is very obvious the OP is childish and probably has marital issues for constantly boring us with this stupid topic.

@OP, kindly share how it is done in your home please. Are roles clearly defined in your home? We want to learn.

misreal:
gbaaaammmm!!!i like this response so much..truth is,when a man spends a million naira on a woman's bride price he owns you.if you want to be a modern lady,please be a total modern lady and stop the collection of bride price,if possible sponsor your own wedding.

Women do not collect their bride price, it is paid to the men (for people who collect); some cultures do not collect BP or return it.

In Yoruba land, the wife's family spends more.... should we say Yoruba men are not modern?

shaybebaby:

Strict role division never really works, not in marriage not in any other situation outside. This is because it always results in resentment on one person's part.

Why would i say such? I can use the work place as an example where people have clearly defined roles and responsibilities, indeed when you apply for the job, your responsibilities are stated.

However, we know that working in different roles within the same organisation means that the ultimate goal is the growth of the organisation so when situations demand it, you are expected to flexible and adopt roles outside your normal ones...do what is needed to keep things moving. So I can conclude that, even in such environment, you are expected to manage relationships with those around you to get the job done. Anyone that pipes up "saying it's not my job" will ultimately lose out in the run, organisation fails, you have no job to claim as your own.

Relating this to marriage, nothing wrong in having clearly defined roles if it works for the parties involved. But we all know that just like in the work place, sometimes the lines gets blurred so you might find yourself required to stuff outside the norm.

The problem lies with inflexibility. If one party can't do his/her or assigned role (for whatever reason) and the other can but won't in the name of "not my responsibility", nothing gets done.

Solution? Appreciation for each other's work and contributions. A simple thank you goes a long way, (we all love good feedback). One role isn't better than the other, all have their challenges and contributions to the life couple live TOGETHER. Genuine appreciation of the struggles the other faces also means you are more willing to help out when you can because you realise the effort it takes to achieve those things. This goes for finances, chores, raising the kids etc. all different but none less important than the other.

Thanks

cococandy:
That's because you're not the typical couple described by the OP.

True.

I never wanted to be. It's a matter of choice.

Ruq:
The strict roles will always hold know matter how much laws or views are held to rationalize it.

The (men) you identified in your post still have a lot of understanding and growing up to do, if you think that's how majority are, you probably might have made the internet your reality.

Lols @ internet my reality...

I had this discussion with friends and they are of the opinion that it is more frequent than we think. A number of women provide and are still expected to do 'their' own roles

Ruq:
I don't know about others but seeing that nature has automatically decided who plays the major role of child bearing I think it's only fair the husband take up responsibility of providing.

1. This is assuming the woman only takes care of child care and doesn't work. If the event she works should she do child care/chores while the husband only provides?

2. After the phase of intensive child care, what happens?

Ruq:
One of the reasons why no matter how much attempt is made at switching roles the natural roles will still fight to stand.

I presume the reason why all these talks came about is when husbands felt has the provider they were automatically the 'superior' and downplayed the role of catering by the wives or where wives felt catering for the home is boring and downplaying her providing ability and some because of sentiments just feel nature has cheated them in some way. Any right thinking human knows better than to make realities like this a supremacy battle or tag a role irrelevant. Any man who thinks the role of the wive as caterer is nothing to be compared to the role of providing has probably never done a chore in his life. While wives who think because they play the nurturing role they should be worshiped because they feel nature has cheated them in a way, these kind of women are easily spotted, they're the kinds who are naturally angry that they are the ones who have too get pregnant anyone woman who's like that is obviously good at claiming victim. Such mentality is why debates like this will always be endless, and reasons aren't far fetched, its all from the home. And life with its eff ups shows us that both gender must be able to play each others role, but this doesn't mean there shouldnt be a default and regardless how this role is switched, in a large percentage the husbands will always be and expected to be the major provider and wives nurturing. Who does the job of a Mother better than a Mother.

True, the husbands felt superior (afterall he who pays the piper dictates the tune ).

I don't think the word is 'switching' because that means women provide and men care of the home. It is couples doing whatever is needed to be done (although there will still be chores each party can't tend to)

Ruq:
On why the strict roles will always hold especially here in Africa, I think majority of us knows this but because of the misconception of these equality schemes, civilization makes us all want to claim hip we are trying too hard to ignore how both gender are really wired. No matter how much it tries to switch roles we have to agree some roles should never be switched and male provider, woman nutures will always stand, along with others of course there will be exceptions both it will still always come to play. Even the T-bills scenario affirms it.

If male provide & female nurture can't be done by anyone, then there can't be flexible. E.g. How does your male must provide & female must nurture with other things flexible fit into the scenario below:

Couple have a joint account where all their earnings go into it and the chores are practically done by anyone?

Ruq:
All in all it all boils down to having an appreciative spouse.

True.

Another issue that came up is that men need to be driven to provide i.e. once a woman feels no problem contributing when necessary, the husband slacks.

bukatyne:


I do not think Bride Price is the reason because we have places where women pay dowries to their husbands and they are still treated as 'inequals'.

It is one of the reasons. Infact a major reason, a man pays almost N2 million in cash and materials to aquire a wife then he comes online to see women claiming that woman is his equal or that he is still supposed to do those roles he has " aquired " a wife to do.

Women need to take responsibility for our share in promoting inequality.

Those saying men collect the bride price yes they do but women are the ones who bare the brunt. Stand up and fight against it I did and I am enjoying the benefits of starting a home on an equal footing

misreal:
its not the wwoman's fault that a man has to pay so much for her,i agree but you cant blame the man for thinking he owns the woman after paying so much..me think abolishing this idea of brideprice will go a long way to curtail this possession mentality.

you think so, let the change start with you, when your daughters are getting married do not collect anything. No be mouth we go use abolish am. My tribe takes 250naira as bride price.

bukatyne:


Women do not collect their bride price, it is paid to the men (for people who collect); some cultures do not collect BP or return it.

In Yoruba land, the wife's family spends more.... should we say Yoruba men are not modern?

my dear,the truth is nobody owns anybody no matter what.but when a man is forced to pay so much just to wife a woman,my dear he begins to see dis woman as his property.my dear,its not a tribe thing but a family thing.some families will not even ask for fifty naira while some families will cut a man's neck..

joseph1832:
Then such family will have themselves condescending to the negative effects of societal norms and religious doctrines, and the negative effects is what is contributing to the high divorce rate in the country.

Not necessarily.

In fact, I will say in interacting with people more, our generation still subscribes to the role division with strange expectation of the wife contributing financially.

jadelyn007:
you think so, let the change start with you, when your daughters are getting married do not collect anything. No be mouth we go use abolish am. My tribe takes 250naira as bride price.

hahahahahaaah.250 naira na small money na u seff...

Eketem:

It is one of the reasons. Infact a major reason, a man pays almost N2 million in cash and materials to aquire a wife then he comes online to see women claiming that woman is his equal or that he is still supposed to do those roles he has " aquired " a wife to do.

Women need to take responsibility for our share in promoting inequality.

Those saying men collect the bride price yes they do but women are the ones who bare the brunt. Stand up and fight against it I did and I am enjoying the benefits of starting a home on an equal footing

Where do men pay 2 million to get married biko? When men that don't even have upto a million in their accounts are getting married every day.

Eketem:

It is one of the reasons. Infact a major reason, a man pays almost N2 million in cash and materials to aquire a wife then he comes online to see women claiming that woman is his equal or that he is still supposed to do those roles he has " aquired " a wife to do.

Women need to take responsibility for our share in promoting inequality.

Those saying men collect the bride price yes they do but women are the ones who bare the brunt. Stand up and fight against it I did and I am enjoying the benefits of starting a home on an equal footing

Are you a Nigerian? If so, which tribe? I ask because the average Nigerian isn't so open-minded to the extent of ignoring certain traditions.

And this is why the fight for equality will not be won. On one hand we want the trappings a modern marriage and for men to be less domineering and abolition of traditional roles but on the other hand we are unwilling to let go of traditions that make the woman a domestic property.

What is the significance of bride price in the modern day? Our fore fathers did it in their time because it had significance as men needed women to do domestic chores and bear kids, today we say marriage is for companionship, why then does the man need to keep paying regardless of how cheap or expensive it still signifies ownership

tearoses:
ooops Buky just read your questions again

To answer question number 3
It cant work because
There are so many shades of grey inbetween providing and domestics .....

for example the man provides a gen and gives his wife an allowance for fuel.
If light goes at 2am in the morning, is it the wife who will go and switch on the gen as part of her domestic duties?

The man buys a goat for Xmas
Is it the wife who will slaughter the goat as part of her domestic duties while the man sits in the living room watching sky sports

The man pays kids school fees
The mans job is flexible and the wifes job isnt
will the man then not pick his kids up from school because its not under his domestic remit

If the woman sees a shirt she likes and buys it, should she claim back this money from her husband because he is the provider

If the woman sees a nice vase for the house, should she claim the money back from her husband?

What you have here is still couples who are somewhat into the traditional thingy.

What do you think of this:

Men need to be driven to provide i.e. once a woman feels no problem contributing when necessary/ split the bills, the husband slacks and is reluctant to provide.

Cc: cococandy; mindfulness; sweetcocoa; Eketem; misreal; jadelyn007; joseph1832; Ruq; kenfil; Jamean; PresVa; Creamish; Quintee

Quintee:

Are you a Nigerian? If so, which tribe? I ask because the average Nigerian isn't so open-minded to the extent of ignoring certain traditions.

I am Nigerian, if we are not open minded enough to ignore traditions that make us property how then do we demand equality and abolition of traditional roles

sweetcocoa:
Where do men pay 2 million to get married biko? When men that don't even have upto a million in their accounts are getting married every day.

Even if it is 10kobo in local lingo they say " he has paid for your head"

Eketem:

It is one of the reasons. Infact a major reason, a man pays almost N2 million in cash and materials to aquire a wife then he comes online to see women claiming that woman is his equal or that he is still supposed to do those roles he has " aquired " a wife to do.

Women need to take responsibility for our share in promoting inequality.

Those saying men collect the bride price yes they do but women are the ones who bare the brunt. Stand up and fight against it I did and I am enjoying the benefits of starting a home on an equal footing

So what did you do/ what should women do?

Share and let others learn.

In my family, bride price is not collected. The husband is given an engagement list of things he needs to bring. The wife's family gives the husband's family gifts and handles the entertainment.

I know it is the elderly men in the bride's family that decides the BP.

cc: misreal