Stats: 3,189,903 members, 7,938,706 topics. Date: Tuesday, 03 September 2024 at 11:23 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Solah Behind An Innovator (4345 Views)
Fond Of Reading This Adhkar After Every Solah. / Explanation Of QABLI And BAADI (corrections Of Mistakes In Solah) / 7 Common Mistakes In Solah (2) (3) (4)
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by ShiaMuslim: 4:36pm On Jun 01, 2016 |
Farmerforlife: you are so foul mouthed the same way you are ignorant. your fellows were insisting in another thread that the Shia (like Sunnis) have "sahih" hadith books: https://www.nairaland.com/3046418/abu-hurairah-mujassim-one-give/3#45491856 when it convenient, our books become "sahih", and when it is convenient, not a single hadith is sahih. ridiculous! we have repeated time without number: we do not have sahih books of hadith. only the Quran is our sahih. each hadith is graded and examined. we have no apology for that. further, on one of our famous hadith books,Usul al-Kafi, this is a scholarly verdict: Agha Buzurg al-Tihrani, op.cit., XVII, 245 - "If the traditions reported in different sections are counted, the number is over 1,000 more. Of the basic traditions, 5,072 are considered sound (sahih) by scholars, i.e. first category; 144 are regarded as good (hasan), second category; 178 are held to be trustworthy (muwaththaq), third category; 302 are adjudged to be strong (qawi), fourth category; and 9,484 are considered weak (da'if), fifth category." the opinions above you presented are true because no hadith narrated and transmitted by men is perfect or free from dispute, error or contradiction. each has to be examined for its merits and demerits. it is very unbelievable you can rely on the words of people you believe have nothing "sahih" to offer. that is not to say however you are free to exaggerate that every hadith is fabricated or weak. the only difference between Shia and Sunni scholars on hadith is that the former have the courage to criticize and scrutinize every word in hadith, while the latter still live in denial and consider books written by fallible men as wholly "authentic" or "sahih". talking about nonsense, you can find such nonsense in your "almighty sahih bukhari" : Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them. Sahih Bukhari 5:58:188 Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 65, Number 366: Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said, When you eat, do not wipe your hands till you have licked it, or had it licked by somebody else. i wont use the same foul language to ridicule your scholars or anyone who believes the above is a "sahih hadith" in a supposedly "sahih book". i can go further and dig more if you so wish. as for the authenticity of Hadith narrators and authorities on hadith, here is a list of: "A Hundred Shia Authorities Relied Upon By Sunnis In Sahih Hadith Collections" https://www.nairaland.com/3105707/hundred-shia-authorities-relied-upon#45622457 |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Empiree: 5:13pm On Jun 01, 2016 |
Looool... I expected this ![]() ![]() Sunni/Shia ![]() ![]() It's no winner/loser. #kontinu ![]() |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Nobody: 6:04pm On Jun 01, 2016 |
ShiaMuslim: Your confusion arises out of your lack of knowledge of the sunni definition of 'shia'. The shia authorities relied upon by sunnis here are the original followers of Ali bin abi Talib (ra), whose only political difference was that they fought alongside him at Siffin, and in extreme cases preferred him over Uthman (ra), yet loved Abubakr and Umar (ra) and certainly had no Saba'ee concept of 'imamah and wilayah'. Among them were sahabah and tabieen, and they were truthful people. Even from those who later followed them, there were those who were truthful, although not usually reliable in sectarial matters. Certainly, the present day version of the Twelver Shia, the rafidha, were never considered to be reliable narrators but were acknowledged fabricators... Imam asShafi'ee; " I have never seen among the heretics, a people more famous for falsehood than the RAAFIDI SHIA" "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet, except the RAAFIDI SHIA, because they fabricate hadith, then adopt them as part of their religion." Imam Abu Hanifah; "Whoever doubts that the RAFIDAH are disbelievers is himself a disbeliever" Imam Malik; "Do not speak to the RAAFIDHA or narrate from them, for surely they are liars." Imam Bukhari; "I dont see any difference between praying salaat behind a Jahmi or a RAFIDHI, and raying behind a Christian or a Jew. They (Jahmis and Rafidhis) are not to be greeted, nor to be visited, nor are they to be married, nor is their TESTIMONY TO BE ACCEPTED, nor their sacrifices to be eaten". Can you imagine these venerable muhadittheen and ulama narrating from a Rafidhi after these descriptions? I apologise if you think I am foul mouthed, but I was not the one who included the narration with a donkey chain in your most authentic book of hadith. Take out your anger issues on your 'thiqatullah alKulayni'. As for your description of "nonsense", is licking ones fingers after eating to consume all the barakah in the food nonsense? Or is the hadith of a Muslim who caught a band of monkeys and made his own personal conclusions the nonsense? I was not referring merely to the donkey speech in your hadith, but to your reliance on a chain of narrators who are all donkeys (truthful no doubt)... an impossible situation. Btw, I want to correct your impression that we believe that you have six authentic books like us Muslims. This is rank untruth, we do not believe in the authenticity of a single hadith in any of your books that you rely on. We merely point out that you say they are authentic when you are trying to prove a point (as above), not that we believe them to be so (ma'azAllah that the pious scholars of ahlul sunnah who you claim as your imams without their consent should actually say some of those things that you falsely attribute to them). Secondly, which of the cited 5072, 144, 178 or 302 hadith in alKafi are authentic? Lol. Bring them forth if you are truthful. All these are pulled-out-of-a-hat numbers, there is not a single book whereby your leaders agree on as compiling all those hadith that they consider to be authentic, either out of pure laziness, or more likely, because they want to keep authenticating today what they declared weak yesterday and would declare weak again tomorrow. Now go back to my previous comment and read what your religion's 'great founders' think of their own hadith. Or would you prefer that I repost it with other additional quotes for your enjoyment? 4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by ShiaMuslim: 10:04pm On Jun 01, 2016 |
Farmerforlife: obviously you did not check the link. the date of birth and date of death of the narrators are mentioned. how you conveniently concluded that these were so called "original followers/Shia" of Imam Ali (as) and not later days Shia is wonderful! for example, Ibrahim ibn Yazid, the second narrator on the list was born in 50 AH. Imam Ali (as) was martyred in the year 40 AH. that is ten years after the passing away of Imam Ali (as). the first narrator died in 141 AH. even if we assume he lived up to the age of 100, it means he was born a year after the passing away of Imam Ali (as). the tenth narrator on the list is Talid ibn Sulayman al-Kufi al-A’raj (ra). he is described as a Rafidi and someone who used to curse the first three caliphs. All the rest of the narrators are described as Rafidi and also trustworthy narrators. i honestly do not feel sorry for your state. i feel sorry for the blind bigots who follow your blindness to like and share your posts. the earliest of the Shia of Imam Ali (as) refused to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr, and they included prominent personalities among the companions of the Prophet (s). and refusing to pay allegiance means they deemed Abu Bakr as wrongfully possessing what did not belong to him, i.e. a usurper and illegitimate. and on their footsteps did the Shia, generations after generations following successive Imams, walked. so for you to beat around the bush and talk about "original Shia" and "fake Shia" is both pitiful and reflects your poor mental state. so those narrators my dear friend were not at the Battle of Siffin. they were Shia in aqeedah and in terms of political leadership and their loyalty to the holy Imams of the Ahlul-Bayt (as). likewise, the original Shia in aqeedah and in deeds, in politics and in religion, refused to pay allegiance to Abu Bakr. those at Siffin, when Imam Ali (as) was the caliph of ALL MUSLIMS do were not necessarily Shia in aqeedah, but following a political leadership since Imam Ali (as) at Siffin was for all Muslims. these are the likes of Shimr who later on fought against Imam Hussein (as) and the hypocrites of Kufa who betrayed Imam Hussein (as). so please, respect the intelligence of others. when you lie or you are lost in confusion, beware that others read before reaching conclusions. you did not even open the link and you concluded those were not "Rafidi" and you then went ahead to invent your own definitions of "Shia". and to make it clear for you that in the view of Imam Ali (as) being a Shia is both religion and politics, he appointed his son as his successor. doesn't that tell you something? and Imam Hassan (as) reached a truce with Muawiyah on the condition that power be returned to Imam Hussein (as) after Muawiyah dies. doesn't that too say something about the divine mandate of the Imams? |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Empiree: 12:59am On Jun 02, 2016 |
![]() ![]() ![]() Kontunu ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like
|
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Nobody: 7:01am On Jun 02, 2016 |
ShiaMuslim: "Even from those who later followed them, there were those who were truthful, although not usually reliable in sectarial matters. Certainly, the present day version of the Twelver Shia, the rafidha, were never considered to be reliable narrators but were acknowledged fabricators..." What did you do with bolded in your hurry to refute what is obvious? No sahabi refused to pay allegiance to Abubakr and Umar (ra), except for Saad bin Ubaadah (ra) in Madinah who wanted it for himself. We have enough narrations to prove that. Stop deceiving yourselves. Ali ibn abi Talib (ra) was an adviser and a minister throughout the first 3 khilafah. I suggest you read the book "firaq asShia" written by your shia scholar anNawbakhti. You will understand the origin of your specific rafidhi cult within the general Shia sect. You will then be able to argue more intelligently about the distinction between the original shia and the rafidha. Incidentally, your cult was not named until Zayd bin Ali of ahlul bayt named you so for rejection of his cause because he praised Abubakr and Umar (ra) and it did not arise fully with rafidhi rituals and plots until after the death of your 11th 'imam' in 260AH, so you could not have narrated any reasonable hadith anyway. The only ones of your kind who existed before that time were the remnants of the Saba'ean followers of the Jew Abdullah bin Saba', who were scattered in kufa and environs and destroyed by Ali ibn abi Talib (ra) himself for excessively praising him, just as he would have done to you today if he were to be around, and those dumb dodos were neither sahabah, nor students of sahabah so as to narrate REAL hadith. Does that explain to you now why you rafidis do not have a single proper hadith with an authentic isnad traced back to the prophet (ﷺ)? I once watched a programme where the resourceful Sheikh Uthman alKhamees (may Allah increase him in knowledge) challenged your black turbanned Shirazi live to give him just ONE hadith with an authentic isnad back to the prophet (ﷺ). Utter silence and confusion followed. I will try to get the video insha Allah for you to understand the paucity of proper hadith in your cult. Meanwhile, let me expound on one of your most famous and prolific rafidhi narrators that you rely on... Zurarah ibn A‘yan alKufi Zurarah is regarded as one of the most prolific narrators from the Imams al-Baqir and as-Sadiq, for example, we are informed by al-Kashshi that had it not been for Zurarah, all the ahadith of al-Baqir would have been lost. (Ikhtiyar Ma‘rifat ar-Rijal vol. 1 p. 345) Sayyid Abul Qasim al-Khu’i has counted 2094 of his narrations in the four books, all of them from the Imams al-Baqir and as-Sadiq, (al-Khu’i, Mu‘jam Rijal al-Hadith vol. 7 p. 249) On the other hand, al-Kashshi records that Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq cursed Zurarah. The following quotation is but one of several places where his cursing of Zurarah is on record: "By Allah, he has ascribed lies to me! By Allah, he has ascribed lies to me! By Allah, he has ascribed lies to me! May Allah curse Zurarah! May Allah curse Zurarah! May Allah curse Zurarah!" (Ikhtiyar Ma‘`rifat ar-Rijal, vol. 1 p. 361) Despite Imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq’s cursing of Zurarah, he is still accepted by the Shi‘ah as the most prolific and reliable authority for the ahadith of the Imams. He hails from Kufa, the centre of the successors of Ibn Saba; he is cursed by the Imam as Ibn Saba was cursed by Sayyiduna ‘Ali; and as subsequent shias were cursed by those whom they claim to follow, and yet he is respected as a trustworthy and reliable narrator of the ahadith which form the basis of Shi‘ism! For those who are interested, this link provides jarh and ta'deel info with references from their own sources on the chief narrators of 'authentic' rafidhi shia 'hadith'. Yet, they still narrate from them... https://islamistruth./2011/03/26/shia-narrators-either-christian-liar-mushrik-or-cursed-by-imams/ On such depend the rafidhi shia for their cult. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by ShiaMuslim: 8:25am On Jun 02, 2016 |
Farmerforlife: do you sincerely have any shame in you? you said those Shia narrators in your sihah are not Rafidi. i pointed out they are. you said they were "original Shia", and followers of Imam Ali (as) in the Battle of Siffin. I pointed out they were born after the passing away of Imam Ali (as). you said they loved Abu Bakr, i pointed out that they are described as men who cursed the first three caliphs. even for the fact that they fought in Siffin means they stood against your hero Muawiyah. do present day Shia narrate hadiths? ![]() you are now shifting the goal post to and "even from those who later followed them". if they were called Rafidi, and they cursed your tyrants, then what makes them any different from a modern day Rafidi Twelver Shia? what is the difference? ![]()
"List of Sahabah That Did Not Give Bay'ah to Abu Bakr" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sahabah_That_Did_Not_Give_Bay'ah_to_Abu_Bakr note: references are contained therein lest you claim Wikipedia is unreliable. i also think this list is abridged and not all of the Sahaba who abstained to pay allegiance. for example Malik Ibn Nuweira (ra) of Banu Yerbo, a Yemeni tribe that was massacred by Khalid Ibn al Walid (Abu Bakr's commander) and his wife r a p e d- for refusing to recognize Abu Bakr's rule and pay him zakat -under the false claim the tribe apostatized is not mentioned. so it means there are a number left out in the list.
i really do not understand how you invent tales and make up fictional argument on historical matters. i asked a question above. the narrators are described as Rafidi and that they cursed Abu Bakr and Umar. what makes those narrators "not Rafidi" in your view and different from us today? simply because the derogatory name "Rafidi" for Shia was coined later on does not mean that the people had not existed earlier on. i have read about the Shia groups and the narrators mentioned follow the Imams and recognized the Imams we do recognize. for instance, narrators in our books like the Waqifi who disobeyed the imamate of Imam al-Kazim (as) or the ghulat are deemed unreliable even by our scholars. Zaid Ibn Ali (as) did not praise Abu Bakr and Umar. he refrained from cursing them in order to keep his army united to face the Ummayyad. so the overzealous ones who wanted to make his uprising purely a Shia affair were not happy. presently, the supereme leader of Iran passed a fatwa forbidding anyone to curse your first three caliphs (at least openly) in order for the ummah to be united and not be exploited by foreign enemies. does it make him less of a Shia? it only means he is wise and has a game plan.
so the sahaba had schools? you said those "dumb dodos were neither sahaba nor students of sahaba so as to narrate REAL hadith". but you stated they were scattered in Kufa in the time of Imam Ali (as). so in order words Imam Ali (as) is a companion. they lived in the time of a companion. but you invented the illusion the sahaba had open madrassahs these fictional bunch of people did not attend! Abdullah Ibn Saba is a fictional character only real in the figment of people's imagination like yours. those Imam Ali (as) punished were ghulat and they claimed Imam Ali (as) was god. we neither worship him nor consider him a god. so how after many generations, you divorce us from our predecessors who are narrators of hadith in your sihah is unbelievable. those predecessors who followed the same Imams as we recognize and they were against the tyrants. but yet, you link us to a fictional character, and some characters, not deserving of being called a group, who worshiped the Imam. at least, you have to point out the similarities to justify your claim. i have pointed out the similarities between us and the narrators of hadith in your sihah.
because one person cannot cite an example or give a reference does not necessarily mean there is no such. even if you ask me from nowhere to produce such, i cannot. i would have to research. again, even the hadiths you trace their isnad to the Prophet (s) can be faulty and invented isnad.
Some of the Imams Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã, in order to protect the lives of their Shias, made some statements that helped their followers. For example the sixth Imam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to the son of Zurarah: “Give my greetings to your father and tell him that it is only for your defense and protection that I sometimes find fault in you! You surely know that our enemies are after the harassment of individuals whom we like and praise. People censure them due to their closeness and love of us and they think that killing and tormenting our friends is considered a praiseworthy action. On the other hand, whoever we censure and reproach becomes the object of their honor and respect. (Tell your father) that we speak ill of you because you are an individual who is famous for his friendship and acquaintance with us. For this same reason you did not have a suitable position with the people and they don’t have a good opinion towards you. I seek this distance between us so that perhaps, through these means, the opinion of ignorant people will change towards you and you will be saved from reproach and torment.”[12] Keeping in mind this reminder, this is a valuable point that: “As both Shias and Sunnis totally agree, just because a tradition is mentioned in one of their books and even if it is authentic and has a verified chain of narrators it does not necessarily mean that the specific sect follows that tradition. In some situations the reason behind certain traditions varies, thus not allowing it to be followed, despite its apparent ‘authenticity’.[13] http://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa3509 It is also narrated by the Imam in the book, that the Imam did this under taqiyya to protect Zurara (Distancing himself from from because those who were close to him were under danger, so he made it appear that he hated Zurara so people wouldn't think him and Zurara were close) and actually conveyed his salam to Zurara. حدثني حمدوية بن نصير، قال: حدثنا محمد بن عيسى بن عبيد قال: حدثني يونس بن عبد الرحمن، عن عبد الله بن زرارة. ومحمد بن قولويه والحسين بن الحسن، قالا: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال حدثنى هارون بن الحسن بن محبوب، عن محمد بن عبد الله بن زرارة وابنيه الحسن والحسين، عن عبد الله بن زرارة قال: قال لي أبو عبد الله عليه السلام اقرأ مني على والدك السلام. وقل له: اني انما أعيبك دفاعا مني عنك فان الناس والعدو يسارعون إلى كل من قربناه وحمدنا مكانه لادخال الاذي في من نحبه ونقربه، يرمونه لمحبتنا له وقربة ودنوه منا، ويرون ادخال الاذي عليه وقتله ويحمدون كل من عبناه نحن وأن نحمد أمره The narration continues on for a few pages. Ikhtiyar Ma'rifat Al-Rijal volume 1 page 349 hadith 221 Shaykh Al-Bahrani in Hada'iq page 168 of volume 18 says that Al-Kashi narrated it by a Sahih or Hasan chain. Allah only knows how much the Imams had loved him, and we know this by the amount of praise narrated by them for him. Rahimahul Allah. |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by sino(m): 9:42am On Jun 02, 2016 |
Ha! This is the most shameful defense on Ali’s (ra) behalf, the fact that all the narrations in shi’a’s books are not reliable, just as farmerforlife had established here, which are actually statement made by their scholars, the above narrations ShiaMuslim presented are so lame when you apply common sense… First I’ll take this narration below and use it as the basis to respond to his claims: Imam al-Baqir (as) and Imam al-Sadiq (as) were also asked about the permissibility of praying optional prayers in congregation during the nights of Ramadan, they both narrated a tradition of the Prophet (s) where he said: “Verily, the offering of nafila (recommended prayers) in congregation during the nights of Ramadan is an INNOVATION… O people! do not say nafila prayers of Ramadan in congregation…. Without doubt, performing a minor act of worship which is according to the sunnah is better than performing a major act of worship which is an innovation.” al-Hurr al-Amili, Wasa’il al-Shia, volume 8 page 45 I would have asked for the chain, but I know it is a waste of time, but again, a quick question, did any of the above Imams met the Prophet (SAW)? If no, then the chain would need to come, so as to verify this bogus narration…Anyway, so let’s believe this narration is authentic (according to the shi’a) for example, the questions that needs answers are: 1. How can the prophet (SAW) who observed congregational tarawih prayer himself with his companions, then say that it is an innovation?! Does this make sense at all? 2. During the life of the Prophet (SAW), he only warned against bid’ah, a statement which would mean that such practices would/did not happen during his life, but after…so we ask you shi’a, who were those practicing this bid’ah during the Prophet’s life?! Was it in the masjidu nabawiy or in their own mosque? 3. Why did all (or even some of) the companions not go against Umar (ra) stating clearly that the Prophet (SAW) said congregational tarawih is a bid’ah since you shi’a also believe Umar (ra) statement of a “good” bid’ah he introduced to mean it is a bid’ah?! 4. Again in the narration of Umar (ra) that you lots like quoting, didn’t it state that some companions were in the Masjid observing tarawih in small groups before he now joined them all under a single reciter?! It seems only the Imams knew of this bid’ah of tarawih that the Prophet (SAW) forbade?! 5. When you shi’ahs claim Ali (ra) forbade people from a bid’ah but they protested, and coupled with other so called bid’ah introduced by his predecessors, in what light are you portraying Ali (ra)?! An ineffectual leader? So he would rather let the caliphs go away with such atrocities and lead astray his followers, just because he was afraid of being left alone and the shouts of o Umar, or Umar’s tradition is changed? Who does that?! If we are to go buy you people’s ridiculous claims, no doubt Ali (ra) had to come fourth, for if he was to be the first caliph, then perhaps Islam may not even have crossed the Arabian peninsula… Naudhubillah from this poor, horrible and dangerous fabrications from the enemies of Islam and enemies of ahlu-l-bayt. Previously, I would have been angered by these ridiculous claims, but now I am only full of pity, and prayerful that Allah (SWT) continues to keep me on the right path of Islam. Ameen 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by sino(m): 9:48am On Jun 02, 2016 |
Empiree:You should have known by now this is not a joke, and it is not about some flimsy rivalry or envy, not about wining or loosing, but rather about the truth, it is about Islam, it is about how we would eventually end up either in jannah or hell! 2 Likes |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Newnas(m): 11:20am On Jun 02, 2016 |
sino: What else do you expect from a Sufi whose religion is nothing but drumming (bandiri), singing and whirling like a dervish?! |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Empiree: 11:34am On Jun 02, 2016 |
^ I'm outta here for your utterances. Don't know why you try several times to force name tag down my throat. It will take another decades before both sides understand. And of course I understand what @bro sino is saying. #un-follow |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by sino(m): 12:49pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
Newnas: I understand your point bro, there are crazy innovations done by those who claim to be sufis, they are cancers in the body of the Ummah... But I also like to give individuals the benefit of the doubt, especially when we factor in our locality as well as our upbringing. Some have a strong background in sufism or should I call them "bandele" according to Yoruba parlance. Most of us were either trained by "Alfas" who are neck-deep in "jalabi" and other forms of mysticism. It is only by Allah's Rahmah that some of us have been saved from such paths. I believe when empiree sees irrefutable evidences, he accepts, although as it is said in a Yoruba adage/proverb, "ko kin tan lara omoba ko ma ku daansaki" (i hope i got that right)... May Allah (SWT) rectify our affairs ameen. |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
ShiaMuslim: @bolded...So your imams who were supposed to be sent by Allah to spread truth and guidance on the whole earth, were accomplished liars and taqiyyah masters, unable to protect their cowardly followers? It further proves my point. If what you say is true and they are like that, how do you expect us to accept their narrations, not knowing when they are lying and when they are telling us the truth, even if we ignore the isnaad? If your 'imam' was lying when he cursed Zurarah in over a dozen narrations from him, and called him worse than Jews and Christians, was he also lying when he said about another prolific rafidhi narrator; Jabir alJoufy; that he never met him, and that his father (al-Baqir) met him only once, yet in that one meeting, he narrated 70,000 hadith from al-Baqir and from no meeting, he narrated 140,000 hadith from 'other imams', according to your alHurr alAamili? How do we know your 'imams' were not lying when they were reported to have said that taraweeh is a bidaa, as in the narration cited by Sino? Or that they are imams? or any of the thousands of fatwas you report (rightly or wrongly) from them? Now not only have you accepted your narrators as liars, you are claiming that even the source of the narrations (the 'imams') are liars. Well, I have made my points. All this tautology you are copy-pasting is just filler, and I understand the shia technique that they drill you on, of always having the last word, and writing tedious 12 paragraph postulations that are really meaningless. In debate circles, it is called the 'Gish gallop'. Carry go, you have one more response to make here to my comment (so you can have the last word), and then you can go rest assured that you have earned your argument allowance for today. I suggest you say that I am running away because you have logically and convincingly defeated me, play up to the audience a little, then go rest. As for me, I have stated all my premises, quoted your scholars, shown how your own 'imams' have disowned you, and proven to you that both they and our muhaditheen have always considered your cult members to be the greatest liars, even though you accuse them of being liars (as in your comment above) and the only ones who believe what the rafidhi shia say are the ones that dont know your character. I am done. The field is yours... 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Demmzy15(m): 6:20pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
As Salam Alaikum, ShiaMuslim you gave a link of sahabas who refused to give bay'ah to Abubakar(ra). I clicked up the link and discovered it doesn't exist. Jazaka Allaah kayran brother sino and farmerforlife 1 Like
|
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by ShiaMuslim: 6:40pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
Demmzy15: try this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sahabah_That_Did_Not_Give_Bay%27ah_to_Abu_Bakr if the link is not working at your own end, use google search with this heading: List of Sahabah That Did Not Give Bay'ah to Abu Bakr please confirm if you got to the page successfully. |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Demmzy15(m): 6:55pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
ShiaMuslim:Na'am, i've seen it. |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by ShiaMuslim: 6:57pm On Jun 02, 2016 |
Farmerforlife: normally i would not honor such stupidity and foul language. but lest the people of falsehood mistake the silence of the people of truth to put themselves as "truth sayers", i would respond. Taqiyyah is a concept enshrined in the Quran. if you so wish to call it lying, feel free. when Taqiyyah is applied, it is to save the lives and properties of innocent people. Taqiyyah is not used when it relates to Aqeedah matters or especially when teaching it, even though if one's life is in danger, one can renounce his faith as in the case of the honorable companion of the Prophet (s) Ammar Ibn Yassir (ra). if you are so smart and intelligible, you should apply the yardstick you cited above on Abu Hureira. you are pointing fingers at others when your remaining four fingers are pointing back at you. Abu Hureira became a Muslim two and half years before the death of the Prophet (s). yet, Abu Hureira has the majority of hadiths in Sahih Bukhari and thousands of hadiths that if he had spent 24/7 with the Prophet (s) and the Prophet (s) was speaking to him nonstop, there wouldnt have been enough time for the Prophet (s) to transmit all the words Abu Hureira later fabricated with the pay of the Ummayyad attributed to the Prophet (s).
apply correctly the hadith of Ghadir Khumm, the Hadith of Thaqlain, Hadith al-Manzilah, Hadith of Twelve Imams, Hadith al-Wilayah e.t.c. all authentic and accepted by Sunni scholars and found in Sunni narrations, and you would have no need for Shia narrators if you do not trust them. when Shia beliefs and doctrines can be found in Sunni records, why are you giving yourself headache over issues you cannot comprehend? you keep shifting the goalpost. you claimed that there was no sahaba except one who did not give allegiance to abu bakr. you got a list. and your silence in your quoted post is astounding!!! its echo is shattering. you brought up claims about Zurarah (ra) and you got served cold. and you now called Taqiyyah "lying". as you so wish. your effeminate ranting does not change the facts. 1 Like |
Re: Solah Behind An Innovator by Ifeola1: 9:06pm On Jun 03, 2016 |
jazakakumulahu khaera pls bro and sis in Islam do we av a whatsapp group |
Business Of Baking Birthday Cakes And Wedding Dinners In Islam. / Hijrah 1441AH: Ruling On Offering Congratulations At The Beginning Of The Year / Mariah Carey Performed Live In Saudi Arabia (near Makkah): Thread Commentary
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 195 |