InyinyaAgbaOku:

Why must onitsha be the capital? can't they use asaba?
igbos have never been against anioma state.
If we cede onitdha to them and they maintain their non igbo stance, what happens to our onitsha?

The emboldened underline your lack of political depth. And again your hypocritical segregational stance. Onitsha claim they aren't "Igbos" too. So there's no bases for your wrongly held notion of "our Ontisha" for people who deny you in reality or pretense.

And of course they share the same oral history with Anioma.
But you fail to see the huge geopolitical spread it would have done the Igbo nation: having a huge unbroken foothold spreading from the east onto the Niger-delta.

Nomswag:

Lol...
luk who is talking about resources....... ukwuani has more oil than the south east combing together.

Ok ukwuani has more oil than Kuwait but how developed is ukwuani is it ogume ,abbi or is it obiaruku

Can you tell me where is more developed than nnewi or Onitsha

Mr oil ...wey others dey take the oil

cyril10:
I am Igbo man from Delta, Oshimili North to be precise. What is Oshimili in Ibo is not river, so I wonder why some of my people deny they are Ibos when they have names like Oliseh, Chukwudi, Emeka.

My surname is Igbo, my children have Ibo names, so I am proudly Igbo, even though some Igbos doesn't see us as part of them.

You don't need anybody else validation to be Igbo. You don't let them tell you if you are Igbo or not, as non of them have such rights, they only claim to, because you let them.

The first pan Igbo language conference was held in Anioma soil, not in any SE town, it was in Asaba in 1908.

Only Aniomas that don't know their history, but will rather hold unto fallacious Bini stories that get labelled "Fake Igbos" by the Igbos in SE.

Lezzlie:


Firstly, there is nothing as Delta Igbo officially. That being said, it's only few percentage of Western Igbos that deny their Igbo roots.

I usually put the blame on the poor reorientation after the civil war. Remember the Asaba massacre? ( genocide?) The federal troops couldn't cross over to the East after the Onitsha bridge was blown off.

The federal troops stationed and garrisoned in Asaba for the massacre. That was the beginning of the denial.

It was not only limited to Delta state. In Rivers state, the fear of loosing properties and estates made alot of Igbos there deny their roots to hold onto their investments in real estate and more.

But I think the east lost an opportunity in regaining a strong foothold into the south south when Anioma state was proposed with Onitsha as the headquarters. They kicked out the idea. That would have merged the east and Western Igbo into one and spread their tentacles into the Niger-delta.

And.....Eastern Igbos often have the annoying condescending manner of saying your diluted or fake Igbo when most Western Igbo dialect is more intelligible than some parts of Ebonyi state and Enugu State.

My opinion

Unless we choose to live in denial, the igbo speaking part of Delta may be termed 'Igbos of Delta'. Our languages are dialects of the larger Igbo language and we may be grouped as 'sub ethnic' groups of the Igbo.

That doesn't mean I'm identifying with the Igbos. Heck no. Proudly Ukwuani

After work I will really have time to outline my opinions.

Lezzlie:
The emboldened underline your lack of political depth. And again your hypocritical segregational stance. Onitsha claim they aren't "Igbos" too. So there's no bases for your wrongly held notion of "our Ontisha" for people who deny you in reality or pretense.

And of course they share the same oral history with Anioma.
But you fail to see the huge geopolitical spread it would have done the Igbo nation: having a huge unbroken foothold spreading from the east onto the Niger-delta.

Yes we know that Onitsha were part of the Anioma people, until Anioma people lost their Ekwumekwu resistance against the British and Aniomaland was Balkanized as punishment by the British into four provinces:
https://www.nairaland.com/520042/western-igbo-resistance-british-occupation

But you must understand why SE will never cede Onitsha back to Anioma until every iota of Igbo denial heard in Anioma is totally expunged and this would likely happen only in an Igbo nation, not Nigeria.
Look at what happened in PH, the SE built up Onitsha like we did PH, if we let Onitsha fall into the hands of people deep in Igbo denial, with Onitsha affinity to Ndiigbo in SE loose, who is to say that history won't repeat itself, as the government apparatus might be hijacked and used by Igbophobic Aniomas that find themselves in the government to frustrate SE investments in Onitsha and our Onitsha declared a non Igbo city?

Anioma should forget about Onitsha in this current Nigerian arrangement, the only way they are getting Onitsha back is post Nigeria existence.

Igboid:


Yes we know that Onitsha were part of the Anioma people, until Anioma people lost their Ekwumekwu resistance against the British and Aniomaland was Balkanized as punishment by the British into four provinces:

But you must understand why SE will never cede Onitsha back to Anioma until every iota of Igbo denial heard in Anioma is totally expunged and this would likely happen only in an Igbo nation, not Nigeria.
Look at what happened in PH, the SE built up Onitsha like we did PH, if we let Onitsha fall into the hands of people deep in Igbo denial, with Onitsha affinity to Ndiigbo in SE loose, who is to say that history won't repeat itself, as the government apparatus might be used hijacked by Igbophobic Aniomas that find themselves in the government to frustrate SE investments in Onitsha and our Onitsha declared a non Igbo city?

Anioma should forget about Onitsha in this current Nigerian arrangement, the only way they are getting Onitsha back is post Nigeria existence.

I understand your points and they are valid to a point.

But the Anioma denial of being Igbo is so minute albeit for political reasons, an not denying the Eastern Igbo condescension of Anioma of their Igbo authenticity.

The blame cuts both ways.
Rivers , a great chunk of, it is Igbo. Anioma spreads beyond Onitsha in Anambra and some small villages in Imo state.

The merging of the Western and Eastern Igbo would have been politically and economically expedient for the entire Igbo nation.

Ishilove:

Unless we choose to live in denial, the igbo speaking part of Delta may be termed 'Igbos of Delta'. Our languages are dialects of the larger Igbo language and we may be grouped as 'sub ethnic' groups of the Igbo.

That doesn't mean I'm identifying with the Igbos. Heck no. Proudly Ukwuani

Ukwuani, like Wa-wa in the East and many other subgroups are all Igbos if you remove political affiliation away.

Lezzlie:
Ukwuani, like Wa-wa in the East and many other subgroups are all Igbos if you remove political affiliation away.

Don't let my father hear you. He will break ya head hecause he has declared to all and sundry that he is Ukwuani, not igbo.

But if we are to look at it holistically, the Ukwuani are part of the Igbo although we have long since denied this.

What is identity? "We see ourselves as multitudes' wrote the psychologist Walt Whitman. In other words, in that innate part of our psyches, we are who we say we are, even if it is different from how the world sees us.

Take for example, in a plane full of white people, you and another fellow are the only black people on board, you will find yourself subconsciously gravitating towards that black person because a bond has been formed based on your racial identities. The plane passengers see two black people, the black people see each other as 'brothers'.

Same with the Ukwuani. They have long rejected the ethnic nomenclature 'Igbo', even if the facts state otherwise. A core aspect of us have embraced the notion that we are a separate ethnic group and thus, we are who we say we are.

[b]

With the fall of Ogwashi-Uku, the Anioma was doomed for balkanization. Dr. Egwu briefly summarizes what thereafter befell the Anioma as thus:

"Anioma Region was divided into four and joined to other groups neighbours who were then given political precedence over Anioma. Asaba Division was joined to the Benin Province and Aboh Division (Ndi-Olu) were joined with Urhobo, Ijaws and Itsekiris to make up the Delta Province. Onitsha, Oguta and environs were joined to the Eastern Provinces. This made political unity nearly impossible. This was the genesis of our woes!

With the fall of Anioma, the great price for losing a war was paid by the people. The region was balkanized by the British and many Anioma territories such as Onicha-Ado (Onitsha) and Oguta were permanently lost to the easterners. That of Onitsha was characterized with a change of the name that disassociated it from Onicha-Olona, Onicha-Ukwu, Onicha-Uku kinsmen but in all Anioma achieved for the Igbo nation a movement more extensive and resisting than what the British had experienced in Africa South of the Sahara. [/b]

That's the balkanization of Anioma. Losing a resistance comes with a price of balkanization. We are discussing this topic today because Ndiigbo lost a war, if not never would any Anioma doubt his/ her Igbo identity.

Ishilove:

Don't let my father hear you. He will break ya head hecause he has declared to all and sundry that he is Ukwuani, not igbo.

But if we are to look at it holistically, the Ukwuani are part of the Igbo although we have long since denied this.

What is identity? "We see ourselves as multitudes' wrote the psychologist Walt Whitman. In other words, in that innate part of our psyches, who are who we say we are, even if it is different from how the world sees us.

Take for example, in a plane full of white people, you and another fellow are the only black people on board, you will find yourself subconsciously gravitating towards that black person because a bond has been formed based on your racial identities. The plane passengers see two black people, the black see people each other as 'brothers'.

Same with the Ukwuani. They have long rejected the ethnic nomenclature 'Igbo', even if the facts state otherwise. A core aspect of us have embraced the notion that we are a separate ethnic group and thus, we are who we say we are.

Well, as long as the sun exists and the earth persists, Ukwuani will ultimately end up with SE. That's the natural order of things.

This core part of you that accepted a separate existence started existing post 1970 with the birth of "one Nigeria", it will ultimately die with Nigeria and with the generation that witnessed the civil war.

Language alone is not a determinant of tribal affiliations otherwise Scots, Irish and English would all belong to the same tribe. They started with distinct languages but gradually assimilated the predominant language, English. Same situation with Anioma, Ikwerre, Ukwuanni etc that deny their Igboness.

Ishilove:

Don't let my father hear you. He will break ya head hecause he has declared to all and sundry that he is Ukwuani, not igbo.

But if we are to look at it holistically, the Ukwuani are part of the Igbo although we have long since denied this.

What is identity? "We see ourselves as multitudes' wrote the psychologist Walt Whitman. In other words, in that innate part of our psyches, who are who we say we are, even if it is different from how the world sees us.

Take for example, in a plane full of white people, you and another fellow are the only black people on board, you will find yourself subconsciously gravitating towards that black person because a bond has been formed based on your racial identities. The plane passengers see two black people, the black see people each other as 'brothers'.

Same with the Ukwuani. They have long rejected the ethnic nomenclature 'Igbo', even if the facts state otherwise. A core aspect of us have embraced the notion that we are a separate ethnic group and thus, we are who we say we are.

Your father better get used to that , because I won't stop asking him what his identity was before the civil war.

Your literary prosody won't allow me to accept your brilliant bias.

Lezzlie:
Your father better get used to that , because I won't stop asking him what his identity was before the civil war.

Your literary prosody won't allow me to accept your brilliant bias.

Lmao!

See ehn, it is not by force. We are not Igbo

Igboid:


Well, as long as the sun exists and the earth persists, Ukwuani will ultimately end up with SE. That's the natural order of things.

This core part of you that accepted a separate existence started existing post 1970 with the birth of "one Nigeria", it will ultimately die with Nigeria and with the generation that witnessed the civil war.

That's not going to happen, sir. It is not by force. The Ukwuani have rejected being lumped together with the Igbo and the most violent conflicts often arise when you try to tamper with a man's identity, which is his covering.

It is not by force. We are not Igbo

Ishilove:

That's not going to happen, sir. It is not by force. The Ukwuani have rejected being lumped together with the Igbo and the most violent conflicts often arise when you try to tamper with a man's identity, which is his covering.

It is not by force. We are not Igbo

You are not Igbo. You speak only for yourself and maybe your Igbophobic family.

I have many proud Igbos from Ukwuani, they and they people are proud Igbos and they are Ukwuani too.

Most Ukwuanis are indifferent to the Igbo tag. Few are Igbophobic which you and your family fall into, and few are Igbophilic, my ukwuani friends fall into that category.
Learn to speak only for yourself and your family in the future.

And by the way, no Igbo man forces another to be Igbo, the Igbos are too proud a people to condescend to that level. So don't you ever feel like any Igbo man is begging or forcing you and your family to be Igbo, Igbo tag is not a merchandise.

Have a nice day.

Ishilove:

Lmao!

See ehn, it is not by force. We are not Igbo

Ukwuani isn't a tribe in any regard. You know this.

kayfra:
Language alone is not a determinant of tribal affiliations otherwise Scots, Irish and English would all belong to the same tribe. They started with distinct languages but gradually assimilated the predominant language, English. Same situation with Anioma, Ikwerre, Ukwuanni etc that deny their Igboness.

Stop puting your hands into things you know next to nothing about.

The English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh all have distinct languages totally none mutually intelligible to each other.

The Scottish, Irish and Welsh all speak English as a second language.

And don't forget that the English conquered and ruled those other groups too.

Comparing the SE, Ukwuani,Ika and Ikwerre situation to the English, Irish,Scottish and Welsh situation exposes your ignorance and lack of grasp of the issue in discourse.

Met A Guy And Asked Which Tribe He Is From And He Said Delta And I Just Thought Of Him As Urhobo Or Others. Then I Heard When His Mother Called Him Ifeanyi And They Spoke Igbo Together . Then I Called The Guy again And Asked Him Which Tribe He Is From He Said Delta But They Speak Igbo As Language. I Was Like, I Never See An Efurefu Like This In My Life,,, Whenever I Speak Igbo To Him He Answers With English. Then After I Heard Oliseh ON TED SHOW I Gave Up. But I Tell U Something Is Wrong Some Where.

EMMAUGOH:
Met A Guy And Asked Which Tribe He Is From And He Said Delta And I Just Thought Of Him As Urhobo Or Others. Then I Heard When His Mother Called Him Ifeanyi And They Spoke Igbo Together . Then I Called The Guy And Asked Him Which Tribe He Is From He Said Delta But They Speak Igbo As Language. I Was Like, I Never See An Efurefu Like This In My Life,,, Whenever I Speak Igbo To Him He Answers With English.

That's how those of them in denial behave.

Igboid:


You are not Igbo. You speak only for yourself and maybe your Igbophobic family.

I have many proud Igbos from Ukwuani, they and they people are proud Igbos and they are Ukwuani too.

Most Ukwuanis are indifferent to the Igbo tag. Few are Igbophobic which you and your family fall into, and few are Igbophilic, my ukwuani friends fall into that category.
Learn to speak only for yourself and your family in the future.

And by the way, no Igbo man forces another to be Igbo, the Igbos are too proud a people to condescend to that level. So don't you ever feel like any Igbo man is begging or forcing you and your family to be Igbo, Igbo tag is not a merchandise.

Have a nice day.

You definitely sound like you're forcing it on us. You know many 'proud Ukwuani Igbos', while I am yet to meet a single one in all my years on earth so when I speak, I speak with facts.

Na dat one dey ya pocket

Igboid:


That's how those of them in denial behave.

bros the dude is above 30 and his igbo is fluent than those we hear in ebonyi and abakiliki combined and him just dey yarn like those from middle bet that always hide their identity.

Ishilove:

You definitely sound like you're forcing it on us. You know many 'proud Ukwuani Igbos', while I am yet to meet a single one in all my years on earth so when I speak, I speak with facts.

Na dat one dey ya pocket

You are yet to meet Proud Igbos of Ukwuani origin because you are Igbophobic and probably surround yourself with or attract the Igbophobic ones all around you.

You don't speak with any fact, more like you speak out of sentiments and emotions.

Join Proudly Anioma, proudly Igbo Facebook page and meet many proud Igbos of Ukwuani origin.

Why should anyone force Igbo tag on anyone? Being Igbo is a privilege, not a merchandise.

Igboid:


Stop puting your hands into things you know next to nothing about.

The English, Scottish, Irish and Welsh all have distinct languages totally none mutually intelligible to each other.

The Scottish, Irish and Welsh all speak English as a second language.

And don't forget that the English conquered and ruled those other groups too.

Comparing the SE, Ukwuani,Ika and Ikwerre situation to the English, Irish,Scottish and Welsh situation exposes your ignorance and lack of grasp of the issue in discourse.

It's a similar situation. We don't have any evidence that those igboid groups were simply just assimilated by the bigger igbo tribe, losing their unique language and way of life along the line.

Igboid:


You are yet to meet Proud Igbos of Ukwuani origin because you are Igbophobic and probably surround yourself with or attract the Igbophobic ones all around you.

You don't speak with any fact, more like you speak out of sentiments and emotions.

Join Proudly Anioma, proudly Igbo Facebook page and meet many proud Igbos of Ukwuani origin.

Why should anyone force Igbo tag on anyone? Being Igbo is a privilege, not a merchandise.

I quoted Walt Whitman for y'all to understand my stand point, which is essentially psychological but it flew over your heads like fighter jets. I'm not responding again.

Ayaf tok my own finis

kayfra:


It's a similar situation. We don't have any evidence that those igboid groups were simply just assimilated by the bigger igbo tribe, losing their unique language and way of life along the line.

How exactly is the situation the same!

The Scottish, Welsh and Irish speak English only as a second Language, the all have native first languages which is totally not mutually intelligible to English language or to each other.
The Ikwerre, Ukwuani, Ika speak Igbo dialects as their first language and has no non Igbo based second language.

Infact, the Aniomas who are not originally Igbo speaking, still speak their native languages as first language, and Igbo based dialects as a second one. Examples are Oza Nogogo people in Agbor, that speaks an Edoid language totally unintelligible to Ika speakers as first language, the Olukumi( Ugbodu, Ukwunzu) people in Aniocha area that speak a Yoruboid language totally not intelligible to the Igbos dialects speaking surrounding Aniocha towns, as first language,

Secondly, England conquered those people and imposed their dominance, culture traditions and lifestyles on them, go watch the movie BRAVEHEART to understand more, the Igbos in SE were not empire builders, they didn't conquer any Anioma,or Ikwere group, as to impose Igbo culture or ways on them, cos even conquered people, as we see in the Scottish, Wales and Ireland, do find a way to retain their first languages.

Anioma speak Igbo based dialects today because that had always been their language, it wasn't imposed on them by anyone. And there are no stronger ethnic marker than language.

Igboid:


How exactly is the situation the same!

The Scottish, Welsh and Irish speak English only as a second Language, the all have native first languages which is totally not mutually intelligible to English language or to each other.
The Ikwerre, Ukwuani, Ika speak Igbo dialects as their first language and has no non Igbo based second language.

Infact, the Aniomas who are not originally Igbo speaking, still speak their native languages as first language, and Igbo based dialects as a second one. Examples are Oza Nogogo people in Agbor, that speaks an Edoid language totally unintelligible to Ika speakers as first language, the Olukumi( Ugbodu, Ukwunzu) people in Aniocha area that speak a Yoruboid language totally not intelligible to the Igbos dialects speaking surrounding Aniocha towns, as first language,

Secondly, England conquered those people and imposed their dominance, culture traditions and lifestyles on them, go watch the movie BRAVEHEART to understand more, the Igbos in SE were not empire builders, they didn't conquer any Anioma,or Ikwere group, as to impose Igbo culture or ways on them, cos even conquered people, as we see in the Scottish, Wales and Ireland, do find a way to retain their first languages.

Anioma speak Igbo based dialects today because that had always been their language, it wasn't imposed on them by anyone. And there are no stronger ethnic marker than language.

Similar <> Same

That broke the logic of your writeup

Scottish is mutually intelligible to English so it can be considered a dialect even though politically and historically it is acknowledged as a distinct language. Gaelic is a separate language all together which is like the Olukumi and Agbor situations.

The igbos although didn't have an empire but basically dominated those small tribes out of share population advantage. A small tribe trading with a bigger group easily gets assimilated over the centuries.

EMMAUGOH:
bros the dude is above 30 and his igbo is fluent than those we hear in ebonyi and abakiliki combined and him just dey yarn like those from middle bet that always hide their identity.

From my experience, the older they get, the more stupid they become.

Their problem is complex. Most of them have so much lived in Igbo denial borne out of ignorance for a long time, so much that when they eventually get to learn the truth of where they belong, they become too ashamed to go back to becoming Igbo, out of pride, and shame of being ridiculed, so as a defensive mechanism, they become extremely Igbophobic to save their face and cover their pride.

kayfra:
Similar <> Same

That broke the logic of your writeup

Scottish is mutually intelligible to English so it can be considered a dialect even though politically and historically it is acknowledged as a distinct language. Gaelic is a separate language all together which is like the Olukumi and Ika situations.

The igbos although didn't have an empire but basically dominated those small tribes out of share population advantage. A small tribe trading with a bigger group easily gets assimilated over the centuries.

More Ignorance from same person, nah wah!

Scottish is intelligible to English language,but we know that Gaelic and Celtic language were the first language of the people.

Olukumi people are Yoruboid people that migrated to Anioma area from Owo area of Ondo, and the fact that they were not originally Igbo speaking is seen in their Yoruboid language. Olukumi is surrounded by Igbo speaking Aniocha towns, yet retained their Yoruboid language. This nullifies your idea of Igbo people nullifying original non Igbo speaking people of Anioma region language, so much that they now speak Igbo as a first a language and has no trace whatsoever of the non Igbo language they spoke earlier.

Igbos traded with Ogoni people too, and Ogoni language remained Ogoni, they did same with Annang , Igalla and Idoma people, non of these people speak Igbo as a first language. You have no point bro.

Ika is mutually intelligible with the Igbo dialects spoken in SE, so I don't know the point you are trying to make with your Ika comparison.

Igboid:


More Ignorance from same person, nah wah!

Scottish is intelligible to English language,but we know that Gaelic and Celtic language were the first language of the people.

Olukumi people are Yoruboid people that migrated to Anioma area from Owo area of Ondo, and the fact that they were not originally Igbo speaking is seen in their Yoruboid language. Olukumi is surrounded by Igbo speaking Aniocha towns, yet retained their Yoruboid language. This nullifies your idea of Igbo people nullifying original non Igbo speaking people of Anioma region language, so much that they now speak Igbo as a first a language and has no trace whatsoever of the non Igbo language they spoke earlier.

Igbos traded with Ogoni people too, and Ogoni language remained Ogoni, they did same with Annang , Igalla and Idoma people, non of these people speak Igbo as a first language. You have no point bro.

Ika is mutually intelligible with the Igbo dialects spoken in SE, so I don't know the point you are trying to make with your Ika comparison.

I edited the Ika but you quoted way too fast.

The fact that sum groups managed to keep a semblance of their original language while others lost theirs doesn't make the argument less valid. It is not a mutually exclusive.

kayfra:


I edited the Ika but you quoted way too fast.

The fact that sum groups managed to keep a semblance of their original language while others lost theirs doesn't make the argument less valid. It is not a mutually exclusive.

It makes it less valid.

It is unprecedented in human history for a group to totally drop their language for another groups own, simply because they traded with each other.

What you are suggesting is totally irrationally and can only be entertained by a mind impervious to reasoning.

Those groups( Olukumi and Oza ngogo) kept their language, because that was always their language, even though Igbo language had made inroads into their Yoruboid and Edoid languages respectively, we can still see that their original languages persisted.

The same canont be said of Ika, Ukwuani and Ikwerrre, they remained Igbo speaking because they were always Igbo speaking. Simple. If you say otherwise, show us their first language before the current Igbo one.

Igboid:


It makes it less valid.

It is unprecedented in human history for a group to totally drop their language for another groups own, simply because they traded with each other.

What you are suggesting is totally irrationally and can only be entertained by a mind impervious to reasoning.

Those groups( Olukumi and Oza ngogo) kept their language, because that was always their language, even though Igbo language had made inroads into their Yoruboid and Edoid languages respectively, we can still see that their original languages persisted.

The same canont be said of Ika, Ukwuani and Ikwerrre, they remained Igbo speaking because they were always Igbo speaking. Simple. If you say otherwise, show us their first language before the current Igbo one.

If you pay attention, it is happening under your nose. How many Northern groups have dropped their indigenous languages for Hausa?