In your view, what is the right punishment for a muslim who says, "I don't want to follow Islam anymore. I want to be a Christian (or Atheist)"?

Note: I have never been a muslim. I come from a very devout Christian family, but I left Christianity 15 - 16 years ago. Pls take note, thanks.

Quran 2: 256

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Quran 109*:1-6
Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship. Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

"there is no compulsion in religion" Q2:256

This Hadith was gotten from saheeh al-bukhari

Narrated:

Abu 'Abdur-Rahman and Hibban bin 'Atiyya had a dispute. Abu 'Abdur-Rahman said to Hibban, "You know what made your companions (i.e. Ali) dare to shed blood." Hibban said, "Come on! What is that?" 'Abdur-Rahman said, "Something I heard him saying." The other said, "What was it?" 'Abdur-Rahman said, "'Ali said, Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) sent for me, Az-Zubair and Abu Marthad, and all of us were cavalry men, and said, 'Proceed to Raudat-Hajj (Abu Salama said that Abu 'Awana called it like this, i.e., Hajj where there is a woman carrying a letter from Hatib bin Abi Balta'a to the pagans (of Mecca). So bring that letter to me.' So we proceeded riding on our horses till we overtook her at the same place of which Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) had told us. She was traveling on her camel. In that letter Hatib had written to the Meccans about the proposed attached of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) against them. We asked her, "Where is the letter which is with you?' She replied, 'I haven't got any letter.' So we made her camel kneel down and searched her luggage, but we did not find anything. My two companions said, 'We do not think that she has got a letter.' I said, 'We know that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) has not told a lie.'" Then 'Ali took an oath saying, "By Him by Whom one should swear! You shall either bring out the letter or we shall strip off your clothes." She then stretched out her hand for her girdle (round her waist) and brought out the paper (letter). They took the letter to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him). 'Umar said, "O Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him)! (Hatib) has betrayed Allah, His Apostle and the believers; let me chop off his neck!" Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said, "O Hatib! What obliged you to do what you have done?" Hatib replied, "O Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him)! Why (for what reason) should I not believe in Allah and His Apostle? But I intended to do the (Mecca) people a favor by virtue of which my family and property may be protected as there is none of your companions but has some of his people (relatives) whom Allah urges to protect his family and property." The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said, "He has said the truth; therefore, do not say anything to him except good." 'Umar again said, "O Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him)! He has betrayed Allah, His Apostle and the believers; let me chop his neck off!" The Prophet (may peace be upon him) said, "Isn't he from those who fought the battle of Badr? And what do you know, Allah might have looked at them (Badr warriors) and said (to them), 'Do what you like, for I have granted you Paradise?' " On that, 'Umar's eyes became flooded with tears and he said, "Allah and His Apostle know best."


Source: Sahih Al Bukhari
Download: https://market.android.com/details?id=com.triosLabs.hadithreader

Your Question will be answered by theses following points,


(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

As per the Holy Quran, there is no compulsion in religion, and there is freedom to believe and disbelieve. so if the person as an INDIVIDUAL case choose to disbelieve because he is not convinced, he would be talked to and if he does not want to believe, fine. there is punishment if he is proven to have committed treason against the state, or is conniving with the enemies of the state to cause damage, or he seeks to spread confusion in the minds of unsuspecting individuals of society.

LexiconKabir is it your post we should accept or the ones of those who posted before you?

How Sahib is the Hadith you quoted?

lexiconkabir:
Your Question will be answered by theses following points,


(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

Smh..

I don't accept this.

Alhajipablo:
LexiconKabir is it your post we should accept or the ones of those who posted before you?

How Sahib is the Hadith you quoted?

Ask him ooo, sheikh Agege sometimes ago laid emphasis on some these hadith quotations that there are some wrong ones which we all know prophet cannot say, people are shouting here and there that he doesn't knw what he is saying, so, in a case where God says and prophet says to Sahih Buhari says, please which one do we count as authentic?

lexiconkabir:
Your Question will be answered by theses following points,


(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?

Let assume one of ur siblings change religion, will u kill him or her?

Alhajipablo:
LexiconKabir is it your post we should accept or the ones of those who posted before you?

How Sahib is the Hadith you quoted?

Its sahih, and its in bukhari

http://sunnah.com/bukhari/56

Here is a screen shot

Rilwayne001:


Smh..

I don't accept this.

Because?

Antina:


Ask him ooo, sheikh Agege sometimes ago laid emphasis on some these hadith quotations that there are some wrong ones which we all know prophet cannot say, people are shouting here and there that he doesn't knw what he is saying, so, in a case where God says and prophet says to Sahih Buhari says, please which one do we count as authentic?

Are you going to follow your whims, or you gonna follow clear proofs?

Antina:


Ask him ooo, sheikh Agege sometimes ago laid emphasis on some these hadith quotations that there are some wrong ones which we all know prophet cannot say, people are shouting here and there that he doesn't knw what he is saying, so, in a case where God says and prophet says to Sahih Buhari says, please which one do we count as authentic?

[b][/b]

lexiconkabir:

Because?

Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 54:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ ذَٰلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

O you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith," God will in time bring forth [in your stead] people whom He loves and who love Him - humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth: [people] who strive hard in God's cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them: such is God's favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite, all-knowing.

lexiconkabir:


Are you going to follow your whims, or you gonna follow clear proofs?

I still can't see the clear proof there. The Quran says one thing, and the hadith says the other, isn't it obvious that there is a problem somewhere?

Like she asked above, if your sister abandon the religion, would you kill her?

Thinngs like these makes me really sick

Rilwayne001:


Surah Al-Maeda, Verse 54:
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا مَن يَرْتَدَّ مِنكُمْ عَن دِينِهِ فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ أَذِلَّةٍ عَلَى الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أَعِزَّةٍ عَلَى الْكَافِرِينَ يُجَاهِدُونَ فِي سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَلَا يَخَافُونَ لَوْمَةَ لَائِمٍ ذَٰلِكَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ يُؤْتِيهِ مَن يَشَاءُ وَاللَّهُ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ

O you who have attained to faith! If you ever abandon your faith," God will in time bring forth [in your stead] people whom He loves and who love Him - humble towards the believers, proud towards all who deny the truth: [people] who strive hard in God's cause, and do not fear to be censured by anyone who might censure them: such is God's favour, which He grants unto whom He wills. And God is infinite

, all-knowing.

How does this contradict the hadith? BTW you don't believe in hadith? Or you just follow the ones that suits you? Hope you know hadith is also a revelation?

lexiconkabir:

How does this contradict the hadith?

Can you then tell me why Allah (swt) didn't proclaim death for those who abandon faith in that verse, instead, he said he would bring forth people who will love him?

Here is another one:
Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 90:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَّن تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ

Verily, as for those who are bent on denying the truth after having attained to faith, and then grow [ever more stubborn] in their refusal to acknowledge the truth, their repentance [of other sins] shall not be accepted: for it is they who have truly gone astray .<<<we see Allah Almighty rejecting the faith of those who keep coming back and forth to Islam. In order for a human being to accept Islam as his religion, he must be certain about it first. Allah Almighty's path is wide open, and his mercy is greater than this universe. This Holy Verse also does not order the death of those who leave Islam.

BTW you don't believe in hadith?

No, I do believe. However I don't believe those ones that are not in line with the Quran.

Or you just follow the ones that suits you?

The ones that suits? In what quest if I may ask?

Hope you know hadith is also a revelation?

Is it superior to the Quran

Rilwayne001:


I still can't see the clear proof there. The Quran says one thing, and the hadith says the other, isn't it obvious that there is a problem somewhere?

Like she asked above, if your sister abandon the religion, would you kill her?

Thinngs like these makes me really sick

Why cancel the part where i asked, "hope you know hadith is also revelation", the Quranic verse you quoted does not in anyway contradict this hadith, moreover, we are asked to follow the messenger, as the Quran fully confirms that he doesn't say anything except he is being inspired to say it.

lexiconkabir:

Are you going to follow your whims, or you gonna follow clear proofs?

I am going to follow God says and prophet says

lexiconkabir:


Why cancel the part where i asked, "hope you know hadith is also revelation",,

I didn't cancel it sir. I believe hadith are revelations but not all. Just like the Bible, is the mixture of truth and false. I however believe we can remove the false with the quran. And then my questions are:
Are all hadiths revelation from Allah? Is the hadith superior to the Quran?

the Quranic verse you quoted does not in anyway contradict this hadith,

Maybe you should answer my question then.

moreover, we are asked to follow the messenger, [/quran]

Yes.

[quote] as the Quran fully confirms that he doesn't say anything except he is being inspired to say it.

But what makes you think that all that he was alleged to have said was truly said by him?

Just like the Bible, what makes you think all that was written about Jesus was not truly about him?

Rilwayne001:


Can you then tell me why Allah (swt) didn't proclaim death for those who abandon faith in that verse, instead, he said he would bring forth people who will love him?

Here is another one:
Surah Aal-e-Imran, Verse 90:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْدَ إِيمَانِهِمْ ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَّن تُقْبَلَ تَوْبَتُهُمْ وَأُولَٰئِكَ هُمُ الضَّالُّونَ

Verily, as for those who are bent on denying the truth after having attained to faith, and then grow [ever more stubborn] in their refusal to acknowledge the truth, their repentance [of other sins] shall not be accepted: for it is they who have truly gone astray .<<<we see Allah Almighty rejecting the faith of those who keep coming back and forth to Islam. In order for a human being to accept Islam as his religion, he must be certain about it first. Allah Almighty's path is wide open, and his mercy is greater than this universe. This Holy Verse also does not order the death of those who leave Islam.

Muslims takes rulings from the authentic sayings of the prophet and the Quran, if the Quran keeps Quiet about the punishment of apostates, doesnt mean it contradicts the hadith of the prophet.

No, I do believe. However I don't believe those ones that are not in line with the Quran.



The ones that suits? In what quest if I may ask?

And how is this not inline? youve not given us a verse that tells them to go scot free, this is what we call contradiction, you have a misunderstanding of these things i must say.

Is it superior to the Quran

They are both revelations from Allah, and we must adhere to both in order to be guided, the prophet said, if we hold on to these two weighty things, we will never go astray.

I seriously don't wanna go further.

Antina:


I am going to follow God says and prophet says

And the prophet says, "kill the apostates"

lexiconkabir:


And the prophet says, "kill the apostates"

kill the 'apostates'. "reported by Al-Buhari"

Rilwayne001:

I didn't cancel it sir. I believe hadith are revelations but not all.

ALL SAHIH ahadith are revelation, some sahih hadith might not go down well with you if you dont have the proper understanding of it, so get the proper understanding, you need to study.

Just like the Bible, is the mixture of truth and false. I however believe we can remove the

Leave the Bible out of this, the Quran has made it clear that the bible is not a book to be followed

And then my questions are:
Are all hadiths revelation from Allah? Is the hadith superior to the Quran?



Maybe you should answer my question then.

Yes, All SAHIH AHADITH are revelation, the most healthy book on earth is the Quran, followed by Bukhari, i hope that answers your Question.


WAllahi i used to think in your line in the past, but i have tried to study more, hence my line of thinking changed.

.

Antina:


kill the 'apostates'. "reported by Al-Buhari"

Reported by Bukhari from a trustworthy companion of the prophet, whoever is truthful, we dont doubt, all hadith scholars(that i know) classed this hadith as sahih, and once it is proven to be authentic, we are obliged to follow it, i advice you to study a little bit of the science of hadith.

lexiconkabir:


Muslims takes rulings from the authentic sayings of the prophet and the Quran, if the Quran keeps Quiet about the punishment of apostates, doesnt mean it contradicts the hadith of the prophet.

This falls back to the question asked in my last post: Remember hadith were written centuries after him"what makes you think that all that he was alleged to have said was truly said by him?"

And how is this not inline? youve not given us a verse that tells them to go scot free,

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 29:
وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا وَإِن يَسْتَغِيثُوا يُغَاثُوا بِمَاءٍ كَالْمُهْلِ يَشْوِي الْوُجُوهَ بِئْسَ الشَّرَابُ وَسَاءَتْ مُرْتَفَقًا

And say: "The truth [has now come] from your Sustainer: let, then, him who wills, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it." Verily, for all who sin against themselves [by rejecting Our truth] We have readied a fire whose billowing folds will encompass them from all sides; and if they beg for water, they will be given water [hot] like molten lead, which will scald their faces: how dreadful a drink, and how evil a place to rest!<< unless you want to give this another interpretation of yours. It evident here that the Almighty wants us to know that he is the only one that have the right to punish them.

this is what we call contradiction, you have a misunderstanding of these things i must say.

Well, that's you opinion.

They are both revelations from Allah, and we must adhere to both in order to be guided, the prophet said, if we hold on to these two weighty things, we will never go astray.

Refer back to my first question.

I seriously don't wanna go further.

Neither do i. I however find this ridiculous.

Seun:
In your view, what is the right punishment for a muslim who says, "I don't want to follow Islam anymore. I want to be a Christian (or Atheist)"?

In simplicity, THERE'S NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION...

Verse 2:256 from the Quran is often quoted to prove what a tolerant religion Islam is. The verse
supposedly reads in part, "Let there be no compulsion in religion; truth stands out clearly from error..."


One of the fundamental truths established by the
sacred texts is that no one can be compelled to
accept Islam. It is the duty of Muslims to establish
the proof of Islam to the people so that truth can be
made clear from falsehood. After that, whoever
wishes to accept Islam may do so and whoever
wishes to continue upon unbelief may do so. No one should be threatened or harmed in any way if he does not wish to accept Islam.



This verse is decisive in establishing that each person has the right to make his or her own choice about embracing Islam. There is other equally decisive evidence in the Qur’an, among which are the following verses:



Allah says: “If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the
people on Earth would have believed. Would you
then compel the people so to have them
believe?” [ Sûrah Yûnus: 99]



Allah says: “So if they dispute with you, say ‘I have
submitted my whole self to Allah, and so have those
who follow me.’ And say to the People of the
Scripture and to the unlearned: ‘Do you also submit
yourselves?’ If they do, then they are on right
guidance. But if they turn away, your duty is only to
convey the Message. And in Allah’s sight are all of His servants.” [ Sûrah Âl `Imrân: 20]




Allah says: “The Messenger’s duty is but to proclaim
the Message.” [ Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 99]



Be guided, Islam is not an aggressive religion but simply a guidance on how one shld live his life in peaceful coexistence amongst both believers n non-believers alike.

lexiconkabir:


Reported by Bukhari from a trustworthy companion of the prophet, whoever is truthful, we dont doubt, all hadith scholars(that i know) classed this hadith as sahih, and once it is proven to be authentic, we are obliged to follow it, i advice you to study a little bit of the science of hadith.

But since Qur'an contradict what Al-Buhari "reported" which one would u advice me to accept when Qur'an 2: 256 and Qur'an 109:1-6 has said it all.

Rilwayne001:


This falls back to the question asked in my last post: Remember hadith were written centuries after him"what makes you think that all that he was alleged to have said was truly said by him?"

You have to study the science of hadith, to fully grasp why i am so rigid on this issue, and why i believe in all ahadith classed as SAHIH.

Surah Al-Kahf, Verse 29:
وَقُلِ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكُمْ فَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيُؤْمِن وَمَن شَاءَ فَلْيَكْفُرْ إِنَّا أَعْتَدْنَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ نَارًا أَحَاطَ بِهِمْ سُرَادِقُهَا وَإِن يَسْتَغِيثُوا يُغَاثُوا بِمَاءٍ كَالْمُهْلِ يَشْوِي الْوُجُوهَ بِئْسَ الشَّرَابُ وَسَاءَتْ مُرْتَفَقًا

And say: "The truth [has now come] from your Sustainer: let, then, him who wills, believe in it, and let him who wills, reject it." Verily, for all who sin against themselves [by rejecting Our truth] We have readied a fire whose billowing folds will encompass them from all sides; and if they beg for water, they will be given water [hot] like molten lead, which will scald their faces: how dreadful a drink, and how evil a place to rest!<< unless you want to give this another interpretation of yours. It evident here that the Almighty wants us to know that he is the only one that have the right to punish them.

This verse doesnt refers to apostates, or does it?

Antina:


But since Qur'an contradict what Al-Buhari "reported" which one would u advice me to accept

In what way does it contradict it? Did it say, Apostates should go scot free?