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What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? - Islam for Muslims (3) - Nairaland

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Nobody: 6:03am On Jun 23, 2016
eitsei:
lol..you don't give that kind of general reply to a non Muslim next time and no, I'm not practicing islam for them but we should let people see the beauty of Islam in us... Shikena

I guess you should see how he asked the question, i gave him a reply the way i feel he should be answered, if you disagree with my method, its normal, we cant reason in the same direction in all matters.

Islam is not a religion of hypocrisy, if you are asked a question about your beliefs, you dont have to hide it in order to impress the kuffar, thats hypocrisy.

9 Likes

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 7:03am On Jun 23, 2016
It's a pity that Muslims understand not their religion, they pick what suit them and leave what seems "unreasonable" to them. We are very quick to quote verses of the Qur'an without proper understanding of this verse. The prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said "I was given the Qur'an and something similar to it(the ahadith)" The ahadith is used to explain the Qur'an. You can't separate the ahadith from the Qur'an.. Bro lexiconkabir is very right as per the question. That's the the for the one who apostate.. And for those who sighted the Qur'an as an evidence, have you read the Tafsir of the aayat you quoted??
Islaam is not practised with common sense and emotions but with evidences and the understanding of the pious predecessors.... As salaamu alaykum

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 7:04am On Jun 23, 2016
It's a pity that Muslims understand not their religion, they pick what suit them and leave what seems "unreasonable" to them. We are very quick to quote verses of the Qur'an without proper understanding of this verse. The prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said "I was given the Qur'an and something similar to it(the ahadith)" The ahadith is used to explain the Qur'an. You can't separate the ahadith from the Qur'an.. Bro lexiconkabir is very right as per the question. That's the ruling for the one who apostate.. And for those who sighted the Qur'an as an evidence, have you read the Tafsir of the aayat you quoted??
Islaam is not practised with common sense and emotions but with evidences and the understanding of the pious predecessors.... As salaamu alaykum

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Antina(f): 7:16am On Jun 23, 2016
lexiconkabir:

You already getting provoked due to simple questions? grin
Anyway its fine, you shouldnt go further if you don't want to,
Salam.
Provoke ke!!! Not in my dictionary cheesy
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 7:17am On Jun 23, 2016
And to the Questioner, you don't ask What are people's views on an Islamic matters but what's the Islamic view, with this you would get the proper answer.. May Allah make our leg firm in the deen and grant us the understanding..

1 Like

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Nobody: 8:00am On Jun 23, 2016
Antina:


Provoke ke!!! Not in my dictionary cheesy

Tor, Alhamdulillah, then could you pls answer my question? We are all here to learn.
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by eitsei(m): 8:01am On Jun 23, 2016
lexiconkabir:


I guess you should see how he asked the question, i gave him a reply the way i feel he should be answered, if you disagree with my method, its normal, we cant reason in the same direction in all matters.

Islam is not a religion of hypocrisy, if you are asked a question about your beliefs, you dont have to hide it in order to impress the kuffar, thats hypocrisy.
yeah.. Islam is not a religion of hypocrisy and if you are asked questions about it you give honest answers but at the same time you need to look at your environment before you say some things, that's why Allah says we need to apply wisdom and good preaching when calling people to practice the religion with us... Before you answer some questions you need to check the person who asked the question sometimes it might even be a Muslim, it's important to assess his level of commitment before you give your answers

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 8:19am On Jun 23, 2016
Tbaba1234 Tbaba12345 Bnbaz roypcain sino newnas your input is needed
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Nobody: 9:22am On Jun 23, 2016
Rilwayne001:
@op, Seun

The Quran says again: Surah An-Nisa, Verse 137:
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ آمَنُوا ثُمَّ كَفَرُوا ثُمَّ ازْدَادُوا كُفْرًا لَّمْ يَكُنِ اللَّهُ لِيَغْفِرَ لَهُمْ وَلَا لِيَهْدِيَهُمْ سَبِيلًا

Verily, those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe (again), and (again) disbelieve, and go on increasing in disbelief; Allah will not forgive them, nor guide them on the (Right) Way.


^^^Notice that the Quran says those who reject faith and then BELIEVE and again DISBELIEVE. if a Muslim rejects faith and is then killed for doing so how will he live to again BELIEVE and then DISBELIEVE. The atmosphere of this verse is that of free will and freedom of choice to everyone. If Allah wanted he would have said something about the punishment, if there was any, of those who reject Islam after accepting it. but Allah takes this to be clearly a private matter between them and Allah.

What do you have to say? cool


You dont still get my point, ok, let me use another method, how do you derive meanings to the verses of the Quran? Do you just look at it and give it a meaning of read the situations that led to that verse revealed?
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Alhajipablo(m): 9:33am On Jun 23, 2016
Ridda or Irtid Literally means, “turning
back”. The act of apostasy—leaving Islam
for another religion or for a secular
lifestyle.
Murtadd: Literally means “one who turns
the back.” An apostate.
Murtad Fitri: Literally means apostate -
natural. A person born of a Muslim parent
who later rejects Islam.
Murtad Milli: Literally means apostate -
from the community. A person who
converted to Islam and later rejected the
religion.
Due lack of education and critical thinking
several myths or misconceptions have
taken root in the Muslim world over the
ages. No efforts have been made to clear
them. On the contrary, there has been a
sort of effort to strengthen these myths
and misconceptions. This has resulted in
a misplaced perception that Islam is a
symbol of obscurantism, a religion of
intolerance and answers everything with
the sword . Consequently, this has made some Muslims renounce their faith.
One grave misunderstanding of Islamic
beliefs over the years is that Islam
doesn’t tolerate apostasy. The Christian
missionaries and the Western world are
cashing in on it. Ulama have tried to
strengthen their point of view and several
leading Muslim reformists have failed to
tackle the issue. This misconception has
also presented Islam as a medieval and
killer religion. Islam bashers have time
and again tried to paint the picture that
Islam orders the killing of a person if he
or she reverts to another religion from
Islam.
The Qur’an is completely silent on any
worldly punishment for apostasy and the
sole Tradition that forms the basis of
rulings is open to many interpretations.
Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:
“Whosoever changes his religion, Kill Him
(man baddala Dinahu faqtuluhu)”. It is
this quote from the Prophet that forms
the basis of the said ruling.
But this is a weak foundation because this
hadith was only transmitted from
Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It
was not confirmed by a second person.
According to Islamic law, this is
insufficient confirmation to impose the
death penalty. The Shari`ah has not fixed
any punishment for apostasy.
The hadith is so generally worded that it
would require the death penalty for a
Christian or Jew who converted to Islam.
This is obviously not the prophet’s intent.
The hadith is in need of further
specification, which has not been
documented. Many scholars interpret this
passage as referring only to instances of
high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam,
Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.). There is
no historical record, which indicates that
Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his
companions ever sentenced anyone to
death for apostasy.
There was a case at the time of the
Prophet (peace and blessings be upon
him) where a man came to him in three
consecutive days and told him that he
wanted to apostate. The Prophet (peace
and blessings be upon him) never took
any action against him, and when the man
finally left Madina, the Prophet (peace
and blessings be upon him) never sent
anyone to arrest him, let alone kill him.
This is why some scholars distinguished
between individual apostasy and apostasy
which is accompanied by high treason. So,
it cannot be confused with the freedom
of conscience for every individual, which
has been guaranteed in the Qur’an
through hundreds of verses. For example,
one version of a hadith narrated by
`A’isha (RA) concerning apostasy relates
to one who left his religion and fought
against Muslims.
Scholars argue that the death sentence is
not for “simple apostasy” (mujarrad al-
ridda), but for apostasy accompanied by
treason and sedition, or by the abuse and
slander (sabb) of the Noble Prophet.
Freedom to convert to or from Islam
Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights states, “Everyone has the
right to freedom of thought, conscience
and religion; this right includes freedom
to change his religion or belief, and
freedom, either alone or in community
with others and in public or private, to
manifest his religion or belief in teaching,
practice, worship and observations.

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Aybee92(m): 10:01am On Jun 23, 2016
lexiconkabir:


In what way does it contradict it? Did it say, Apostates should go scot free?
Islam is 1 religion DAT contradict it self...
D earlier teaching of the prophet says no compulsion in religion den after hijra same Mohammed says any one who lives his religion. (Islam) shld be killed...smh

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 11:01am On Jun 23, 2016
I found this link very helpful
http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by balash(m): 11:34am On Jun 23, 2016
Hmmmmm
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Nobody: 11:53am On Jun 23, 2016
Aybee92:

Islam is 1 religion DAT contradict it self...
D earlier teaching of the prophet says no compulsion in religion den after hijra same Mohammed says any one who lives his religion. (Islam) shld be killed...smh

Thank you, dont forget to lock the when going!

1 Like

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by maclatunji: 12:07pm On Jun 23, 2016
Empiree:
I am honestly forced to comment on this. I can't wait till end of Ramadan to respond. I decided to go offline because I wanted to avoid back to back talks, vain talks in this Blessed month of Ramadan. Back to topic, I DISAGREE with brother lexiconkabir. Respectively, you are very wrong dear brother. You make my stomach turned.

I dont think i need to cite references further as rilwayne001 and others already did that. Brother lexiconkabir, first all, there is no way hadith can abrogate any verse of Quran....NO WAY. Do you agree?

This verse STANDS and VALID until end of time.


"THERE'S NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION"



The problem you have and those scholars you quoted have is wrong methodology. Let's assume the hadith you quoted is valid. Have you ever heard of something called "system of meaning"?, which means you can not take the above hadith or any hadith in isolation. This is lazy man methodology. You and those scholars supposed to put together all the data in reference to the hadith, put them together to form harmonious whole and then derive a meaning. You and the scholars you claimed you support took the hadith in isolation. This is very wrong and dangerous.


Now, let me explain the hadith to you if indeed it is true to begin with. The context of the hadith in reference to another hadith that you failed to cite in your #5 is when the prophet(saw) made the statement, it was in the time of war and if the apostate pose a threat to the community. So it is to mean that in that time when every man was a soldier at war and call to defend Muslim populace and then he joins the other side(enemy) and divulges the secrets of Muslim military to the enemy, then he's to be killed. This is clear case of treason. This is also general rule in any given nations today.


There is ABSOLUTELY NO COMPULSION in Islam. You and your scholars go against Quran.



The thing is, in Islam, there is no separation of Church(Mosque) and State. Therefore, if a Muslim openly renounces Islam and then saying unspeakable things against Islam which may prevent or lead people astray or speak against the state, this is considered treason. It is only then govt will act NOT individual. When such a person in punished in our modern time, non-Muslims do not look at it as treason but as religious repression. They failed proper investigation.



As for you statement that Sahih hadith are ALL REVELATIONS, brother, it takes a very simply physics to dispel such mythology of yours. Yes, hadith is revelation also as reported by the prophet(saw) himself. But there is no where Allah guarantees protection of any religious Books or any books except Qur'an.


Allah Knows Best

This is the crux of the matter. In an Islamic state like Saudi Arabia, it will be considered treason and ultimately the person may be executed after the courts have determined him to be of sound mind and followed due process of law.

Excerpts from Wikipedia that adequately address this issue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam :

Apostasy in Islam includes within its scope not only the wilful renunciation of Islam by a Muslim through a declaration of their renunciation of the Islamic faith (whether for another religion or irreligiosity), or if lacking a declaration, then by specific deed of undergoing the rites of conversion into another religion, but also even denying, or merely questioning, any "fundamental tenet or creed" of Islam, such as the divinity of God, prophethood of Muhammad, or mocking God, or worshipping one or more idols. Different Muslim denominations and schools of thought may also hold different additional views of what each consider a fundamental tenet of the faith. Nevertheless, Muslim jurists from the early period, from different Muslim denominations and schools of thought, developed legal institutions to circumvent harsh punishment in allegations or charges of apostasy. These institutions set the standard for what counts as apostasy from Islam so high that at least prior to the 11th century practically no judgment of apostasy could be passed, though since then, these high standards of what counts for apostasy have not been consistently applied throughout the Muslim World.

Until the late 1800s, the vast majority of Islamic scholars in Madh'hab (Sunni) and Imamah (Shia) schools of jurisprudence held that for adult men, apostasy in Islam was a crime as well as a sin, an act of treason punishable with the death penalty, typically after a waiting period to allow the apostate time to repent and return to Islam. [/b]The kind of apostasy generally deemed to be punishable by the jurists was of the political kind, although there were considerable legal differences of opinion on this matter. Wael Hallaq states that "[in] a culture whose lynchpin is religion, religious principles and religious morality, apostasy is in some way equivalent to high treason in the modern nation-state." In the late 1800s, the use of criminal penalties for apostasy fell into disuse, although civil penalties were still applied.

[b]CONCLUSION: The death penalty rule for apostasy in an Islamic state exists but it is very difficult to apply. Under no circumstances is an individual to be attacked and killed under Islamic law for apostasy or any other offence for that matter. Anyone that does this is a murderer pure and simple.

The rule of law prevails.

1 Like

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by tbaba1234: 1:14pm On Jun 23, 2016
udatso:
Tbaba1234 Tbaba12345 Bnbaz roypcain sino newnas your input is needed


The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)

However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death.

The act of just conversion is not punishable in most cases, however if that conversion is accompanied by an attempt to discredit Islam or propagate another religion within the islamic state, It is considered treasonable.

The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,

Look at the apostacy law this way;

Acts against the nation are considered treason aren't they? what is punishment for treason in 9ja?

The constitution of an Islamic state is based on Islam; If i live in the state, i abide by its laws;

If someone leaves Islam in an Islamic state for whatever reason, as long as he doesn't go around opening trying to convert people to whatever belief/unbelief he has found thereby trying to discredit the constitution of the state. He is fine. Otherwise, It is treasonable.

He can live his life, he doesn't have to pray or fast if he doesn't want to..

Besides, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.

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Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by DeIneffable(m): 1:34pm On Jun 23, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Your Question will be answered by theses following points,


(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).

(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?

(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?


May Allah forgive my error here. This Hadith does not contradict the Qur'an Verses but I think a whole lot have misconstrued this Hadith. let us remind ourselves about how the Qur'an and sometimes the Hadith is revealed, revelation comes based on events at that time or some chain of events. This Hadith was presented in the time of war where some accepted the faith, gained military intelligence then decided to change back. What I want to put to you how ever is for you to present evidence that the prophet did this himself. there is proof as presented above that the prophet did spare people who returned to a previous life by rejecting Islam that they had initially accepted. so please present the proof. If Rasul spared people. I will as well
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by DeIneffable(m): 1:38pm On Jun 23, 2016
This is a better explanation than mine, How's ramadan over there brother? hope the long hours are not too challenging?


tbaba1234:



The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)

However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death.

The act of just conversion is not punishable in most cases, however if that conversion is accompanied by an attempt to discredit Islam or propagate another religion within the islamic state, It is considered treasonable.

The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,

Look at the apostacy law this way;

Acts against the nation are considered treason aren't they? what is punishment for treason in 9ja?

The constitution of an Islamic state is based on Islam; If i live in the state, i abide by its laws;

If someone leaves Islam in an Islamic state for whatever reason, as long as he doesn't go around opening trying to convert people to whatever belief/unbelief he has found thereby trying to discredit the constitution of the state. He is fine. Otherwise, It is treasonable.

He can live his life, he doesn't have to pray or fast if he doesn't want to..

Besides, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by tbaba1234: 1:41pm On Jun 23, 2016
DeIneffable:
This is a better explanation than mine, How's ramadan over there brother? hope the long hours are not too challenging?

Alhamdulillah.. It's been ok
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by IdisuleOurOwn(m): 3:15pm On Jun 23, 2016
lexiconkabir:


You dont still get my point, ok, let me use another method, how do you derive meanings to the verses of the Quran? Do you just look at it and give it a meaning of read the situations that led to that verse revealed?


a/slm.

Can you please explain the verse?
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Nobody: 3:42pm On Jun 23, 2016
IdisuleOurOwn:



a/slm.

Can you please explain the verse?

Wa aleikom salam, just open any kitabu tafsir and search for that verse,uou can as well use the online ibn kathir, http://www.qtafsir.com/ i want you to see it yourself.
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 4:08pm On Jun 23, 2016
tbaba1234:



The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)

However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death.

The act of just conversion is not punishable in most cases, however if that conversion is accompanied by an attempt to discredit Islam or propagate another religion within the islamic state, It is considered treasonable.

The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;

In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.

Guess how many people did so the next day? None,

Look at the apostacy law this way;

Acts against the nation are considered treason aren't they? what is punishment for treason in 9ja?

The constitution of an Islamic state is based on Islam; If i live in the state, i abide by its laws;

If someone leaves Islam in an Islamic state for whatever reason, as long as he doesn't go around opening trying to convert people to whatever belief/unbelief he has found thereby trying to discredit the constitution of the state. He is fine. Otherwise, It is treasonable.

He can live his life, he doesn't have to pray or fast if he doesn't want to..

Besides, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.
Jazakallahu khairan.

2 Likes

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by MrOlai: 8:18pm On Jun 23, 2016
tbaba1234:

The first thing to say is that in islam, there is no compulsion in religion, The Quran(translated) states:
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (Quran 2:256)
However in an Islamic state, there are certain conditions where conversion is accompanied with acts that could be considered treasonable by the state. The punishment for treason is death.
The act of just conversion is not punishable in most cases, however if that conversion is accompanied by an attempt to discredit Islam or propagate another religion within the islamic state, It is considered treasonable.
The apostacy law came about during the time of the prophet;
In order to discredit Islam, some Jews in medina would accept islam in the day and leave by sunset; They continued to do so until the law was put in place.
Guess how many people did so the next day? None,
Look at the apostacy law this way;
Acts against the nation are considered treason aren't they? what is punishment for treason in 9ja?
The constitution of an Islamic state is based on Islam; If i live in the state, i abide by its laws;
If someone leaves Islam in an Islamic state for whatever reason, as long as he doesn't go around opening trying to convert people to whatever belief/unbelief he has found thereby trying to discredit the constitution of the state. He is fine. Otherwise, It is treasonable.
He can live his life, he doesn't have to pray or fast if he doesn't want to..
Besides, the person is not just executed, he speaks to the scholars about his doubts and is provided evidences about the divinity of the Quran so as to convince him, if that fails, he is threatened basically to shut him up from proselytizing disbelief in an Islamic state. If he relents, he is let go and can continue in his disbelief and live his normal life.

Jazakallah khaeran.

Seun, over to you!

2 Likes

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 11:08pm On Jun 23, 2016
As a non Muslim, I find myself Intrigued and attracted to your faith. However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking( Salman Rushdie). I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can?
Published Date: 2010-02-01
Praise be to Allaah.
We thank you for your confidence in us and for sending this question to us, and we appreciate your being intrigued by our beliefs and your eagerness to find out the answer. We welcome you as a visitor and reader and learner.
What stood out from your letter is that you are impressed with the religion of Islam. This is a good sign for us and for you. We are happy for our religion to reach people like you who are seeking for the truth. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that this religion would reach all places on this earth. It was narrated that Tameem al-Daari said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘This matter (i.e., Islam) will certainly reach everywhere that night and day reach, and Allaah will not leave any house or tent [i.e., all dwellings, in towns and in the desert], but Allaah will cause this religion to enter it, and some people will be honoured because of it [by converting] and others will be humiliated because of it [for refusing to embrace it], and they will be ruled by the Muslims, an honour which Allaah will bestow on Islam and a humiliation which He will inflict on kufr (disbelief).”
(Narrated by Ahmad, 16344; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 3).
In your case, your admiration for Islam will motivate you to find out what this pure monotheistic religion teaches, and how it is in accordance with sound human nature and common sense. We advise you to avoid completely and preconceptions that may influence you and take your time in reading about the teachings of the Islamic religion. Perhaps you could read material on this site about Islam, such as questions no. 219, 21613, 20756, 10590.
With regard to your question, “However, I find it difficult to comprehend how a man can be sentenced to death for speaking. I would have thought that we as humans do not have that right to make those decisions, only god can” – what you say is correct, because no-one has the right to condemn another person to death without evidence from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
The ruling of execution because of a word that somebody utters is what the Muslim scholars call al-riddah (apostasy). What is apostasy and what constitutes apostasy? What is the ruling on the apostate (al-murtadd)?
1 – Riddah (apostasy) refers to when a Muslim becomes a disbeliever by saying a clear statement to that effect, or by uttering words which imply that (i.e., which imply kufr or disbelief), or he does something that implies that (i.e., an action which implies kufr or disbelief).
2 – What constitutes apostasy
The matters which constitute apostasy are divided into four categories:
(a) Apostasy in beliefs, such as associating others with Allaah, denying Him, or denying an attribute which is proven to be one of His attributes, or by affirming that Allaah has a son. Whoever believes that is an apostate and a disbeliever.
(b) Apostasy in words, such as insulting Allaah or the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).
(c) Apostasy in actions, such as throwing the Qur’an into a filthy place, because doing that shows disrespect towards the words of Allaah, so it is a sign that one does not believe. Other such actions include prostrating to an idol or to the sun or moon.
(d) Apostasy by omission, such as not doing any of the rituals of Islam, or turning away from following it altogether.
3 – What is the ruling on the apostate?
If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – i.e., he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.
The evidence that the apostate is to be executed is the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794). What is meant by religion here is Islam (i.e., whoever changes from Islam to another religion).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah , 22/180.
Thus it will be clear to you that execution of the apostate is something that is commanded by Allaah, when he commanded us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority”
[al-Nisa’ 4:59]
And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”
It may need some time for you to be convinced about this matter, and for you to think about it. Perhaps you think that if a person follows the truth and enters into it and embraces the one true religion which Allaah has enjoined, then we allow him to leave it quite easily whenever he wants and to utter the words of kufr (disbelief) that put him outside of Islam, so he can reject Allaah, His Messenger, His Books and His religion, and there is no punishment as deterrent, how will that affect him and others who enter the religion?
Do you not see that this would make the one true religion, that everyone should follow, like a shop or store which a person can enter when he wants and leave when he wants, and it may encourage others to forsake the truth.
Moreover, this is not someone who has never known the truth and practiced it and worshipped in accordance with it; rather this is a person who has known the truth, and practiced the religion and done the rituals of worship, so the punishment is no greater than he deserves. Moreover, such strong rulings as this are only applied to such a person whose life is no longer considered to be useful, because he knew the truth and followed the religion, then he left it and forsook it. What soul can be more evil than the soul of such a person?
In conclusion, the answer is that Allaah is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allaah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.
May Allaah help us and you to do that which He loves and which pleases Him. We thank you once again.
Peace be upon those who follow true guidance.
https://islamqa.info/en/20327

2 Likes

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Empiree: 3:09am On Jun 24, 2016
^^^^^^^


This is rather problematic @busar. I hope you read and comprehended what is written. I think that's where brother lexiconkabir stands as well. That's why i said earlier the hadith is taken in isolation. From your post up there, it is clear they believe killing apostate solely for rejecting faith is the rule of Law. This is clear contradiction with Quran


"Let There Be No Compulsion In Religion"


This is excerpt from your post up there.



Thus it will be clear to you that execution of the apostate is something that is commanded by Allaah, when he commanded us to obey the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as He says (interpretation of the meaning):
“O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger (Muhammad), and those of you (Muslims) who are in authority”
[al-Nisa’ 4:59]
And the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has commanded us to execute the apostate as in the hadeeth quoted above: “Whoever changes his religion, execute him.”


This is not even ijma as I understand it. The condition of executing apostate is what i hinted [quote author=Empiree post=46832504][/quote] and tbaba even explained better here https://www.nairaland.com/tbaba1234/posts Both explanations contradict what you posted. I stand to be corrected if I am missing something.

@Mr. Maclatunji, I am really having hard time digesting your post

1 Like

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 8:25am On Jun 24, 2016
Empiree:
^^^^^^^


This is rather problematic @busar. I hope you read and comprehended what is written. I think that's where brother lexiconkabir stands as well. That's why i said earlier the hadith is taken in isolation. From your post up there, it is clear they believe killing apostate solely for rejecting faith is the rule of Law. This is clear contradiction with Quran


"Let There Be No Compulsion In Religion"


This is excerpt from your post up there.






This is not even ijma as I understand it. The condition of executing apostate is what i hinted and tbaba even explained better here https://www.nairaland.com/tbaba1234/posts Both explanations contradict what you posted. I stand to be corrected if I am missing something.

@Mr. Maclatunji, I am really having hard time digesting your post
The said post is not mine but the explanation given by Shaykh Salih al munajid in islamqa.com and this is right stand. The Sunnah can't contradict the Qur'an but strengthens one another. Just as i have said earlier that verses of the Qur'an are just not taken literally but with the tafsir... Read the the explanation of the ayaah..

3 Likes

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Empiree: 11:16am On Jun 24, 2016
^^^^^^

@busar, is the opinion of Shaykh Salih al munajid of islamqa ijma of the Ummah?. I believe it is the Sheikh that took the hadith literally and in isolation.


"Let there be no compulsion in religion;..... 2:256


What this Verse 2:256 does not protect is a Muslim or so called Muslim who neglects all tenets of Islam and cite this ayah as his/her evidence. In that case it does not apply because Quran says enter islam wholeheartedly.


"O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy." 2:208


But borne of contention is someone who freely leaves Islam and minds his business afterwards to be killed?. I hope you know know implications of this. I am sorry I dont see wisdom Sheikh's method.
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by Demmzy15(m): 11:25am On Jun 24, 2016
udatso:
I found this link very helpful
http://www.islamicperspectives.com/apostasy1.htm
I read this article some years back, I tell you bro, it makes alot of sense.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 2:02pm On Jun 24, 2016
Demmzy15:
I read this article some years back, I tell you bro, it makes alot of sense.
InshaAllah I Will share it as soon as am chanced
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by busar(m): 7:33pm On Jun 24, 2016
Empiree:
^^^^^^

@busar, is the opinion of Shaykh Salih al munajid of islamqa ijma of the Ummah?. I believe it is the Sheikh that took the hadith literally and in isolation.


"Let there be no compulsion in religion;..... 2:256


What this Verse 2:256 does not protect is a Muslim or so called Muslim who neglects all tenets of Islam and cite this ayah as his/her evidence. In that case it does not apply because Quran says enter islam wholeheartedly.


"O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy." 2:208


But borne of contention is someone who freely leaves Islam and minds his business afterwards to be killed?. I hope you know know implications of this. I am sorry I dont see wisdom Sheikh's method.

Could you please quote/name any scholar holding the same position as yours? Or that interpreted it as yours?

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by chocorod(m): 2:02pm On Jun 25, 2016
lexiconkabir:


In what way does it contradict it? Did it say, Apostates should go scot free?
Re: What's The Proper Punishment For A Muslim Apostate? by udatso: 4:12pm On Jun 25, 2016
lexiconkabir:
Your Question will be answered by theses following points,


(1) This is the ruling of Allaah and His Messenger, as the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him." (reported by al-Bukhaari, al-Fath, no. 3017).
I think you are too direct here. Do you know this hadith has so many conflicting narrations ?


(2) The one who has known the religion which Allaah revealed, entered it and practised it, then rejected it, despised it and left it, is a person who does not deserve to live on the earth of Allaah and eat from the provision of Allaah.
What's evidence for this?

(3) By leaving Islaam, the apostate opens the way for everyone who wants to leave the faith, thus spreading apostasy and encouraging it.
What happened to LA ikraha fid din. Would you rather have sincere Muslims that practise Islam because it's what they want or hypocrites because they don't want to be killed?

(4) The apostate is not to be killed without warning. Even though his crime is so great, he is given a last chance, a respite of three days in which to repent. If he repents, he will be left alone; if he does not repent, then he will be killed.
Warning or no warning, there isn't evidence that an apostate who doesn't cause trouble should be killed

(5) If the punishment for murder and espionage (also known as high treason) is death, then what should be the punishment for the one who disbelieves in the Lord of mankind and despises and rejects His religion? Is espionage or shedding blood worse than leaving the religion of the Lord of mankind and rejecting it?
Do you derive punishments based on your common logic or after examining the kitab WA sunnah?


(6) None of those who bleat about personal freedom and freedom of belief would put up with a neighbour’s child hitting their child or justify this as "personal freedom," so how can they justify leaving the true religion and rejecting the sharee’ah which Allaah revealed to teach mankind about His unity and bring justice and fairness to all?
Are all apostates trouble makers?

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