And so I have been waiting for this moment ever since I stopped being a Christian. Although I never at anytime doubt the existence of god, but I doubt if their is any credible way of getting to know him out there.

I have been a Christian all my life until I joined Nairaland before my Christian faith was shattered by the agent of satan on this section.
I lost faith in Yahweh, I lost faith in Jesus after seeing the Bible is indeed fallible with all the errors and irrefutable contradictions in it.

And then Lexiconkavir walk up to me and started telling me how Islam (of all religion) is different and how Allah is the only true God that science is yet to disprove. For this reason, I have decided to create a thread where I would be throwing different question at him and his fellow Muhammedans. Perhaps if they are able to convince me and are able to answer my questions without resorting to fallacies known to religionists, they might end up winning a soul for their Allah.

Here we go then. Lexiconkabir I await you to mark register before I start throwing my questions. Other Muslims can come in too.

Please no derailing.

Mods: please leave this thread here, I can't go to there territory be swearing one shariah. I will swear shariah if I become a Muslim.

Let the show begin

^^ I said i will be available tomorrow not today, anyway just bring one, tomorrow i will address others insha Allah.

It should be noted that no one should comment apart from the OP and I, i hope you guys respect that...

lexiconkabir:
^^ I said i will be available tomorrow not today, anyway just bring one, tomorrow i will address others insha Allah.

Okay then: I will start with some obvious contradictions before asking my questions.


There or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

"Let there be no compulsion in religion Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

And Allah later went on to say:

"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3)

And then I saw you on one thread that made fp the other day where you were vigorously campaigning for death for apostasy, does this and the 2nd verse above contradict the first verse above?

Which are we to believe?

lexiconkabir:
It should be noted that no one should comment apart from the OP and I, i hope you guys respect that...

Absolute rubbish, you have no right to say that.

If you run away now, who will stay with me?

Other Muhammedan are allowed jRe

Obadiah77:


Okay then: I will start with some obvious contradictions before asking my questions.


There or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?

"Let there be no compulsion in religion Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).

No compulsion in religion means, you wont be forced to accept islam, but once you are in Islam, you gotta be real, the law of apostacy was put in place, when the Jews of mecca were making mockery of thr religion, by becoming Muslims today and becoming apostates the next.

And Allah later went on to say:

"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3)

Obviously, this verse refers to the disbelievers in islam, that tried to fight against Muhammad in battle even after signing peace treaty, look at the next verse that follows so you can see what happens to those that did not fight against him.


"Exempted are those with whom you made [size=18pt]a treaty among the polytheists[/size] and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

So its obvious that the people in verse 3 were rebellious, they were not promised punishment just because they disbelieved.

If you not cleared let me know.

And then I saw you on one thread that made fp the other day where you were vigorously campaigning for death for apostasy, does this and the 2nd verse above contradict the first verse above?

Which are we to believe?

As you can see, there is no contradiction there......

Obadiah77:


Absolute rubbish, you have no right to say that.

If you run away now, who will stay with me?

Other Muhammedan are allowed jRe

Firstly, The name is Muslim not muhammedan, as per your question, in the first ayah, it was stated clearly that there is no Compulsion in religion which holds. The punishments mention in the second verse were not of this world and not to be prescribed by anybody except Allah SWT. I think that Should be clear enough. @lexiconkabir. I am sorry but I cant just miss the opportunity to pass the good message

Obadiah77:


Absolute rubbish, you have no right to say that.

If you run away now, who will stay with me?

Other Muhammedan are allowed jRe

I hope we keep this civil, i only said that because i know Christians will soon come here to derail the thread.... Therefore making it useless.

lexiconkabir:


No compulsion in religion means, you wont be forced to accept islam,

If this is actually true, then, what does this same verse in this sir ah mean 9V29:
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
(Mohsin Khan)

We have other verses inspiring death for those who don't believe in Allah. I will show you more if you want to see.

Fighting those who don't believe in what Muslims believe is tantamount to compelling them to believe. What do you have to say here?

but once you are in Islam, you gotta be real,

What if one later found out that Islam is not real and decided to leave? You would kill him? This is compulsion if you ask me. Have you ever ask yourself if it's the same way in other religion? Would we have had people converting to islam, what would have been the case?

the law of apostacy was put in place, when the Jews of mecca were making mockery of thr religion, by becoming Muslims today and becoming apostates the next.

So Allah toldl Muhammed to start killing them for that reason?

Obviously, this verse refers to the disbelievers in islam, that tried to fight against Muhammad in battle even after signing peace treaty, look at the next verse that follows so you can see what happens to those that did not fight against him.

Lies

"Exempted are those with whom you made [size=18pt]a treaty among the polytheists[and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; [u] so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

Apparently, you are not underlings where you ought to underline. The underlined is the real deal here, why sign a treaty that has a fixed period of when you would later killed them? This was made known in the verse that follows. 9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)

So its obvious that the people in verse 3 were rebellious, there were not promised punishment just because they disbelieve.

If you not cleared let me know.

As you can see, there is no contradiction there......

Look wella

RealLordZeus:

Firstly, The name is Muslim not muhammedan, as per your question, in the first ayah, it was stated clearly that there is no Compulsion in religion which holds. The punishments mention in the second verse were not of this world and not to be prescribed by anybody except Allah SWT. I think that Should be clear enough. @lexiconkabir. I am sorry but I cant just miss the opportunity to pass the good message

9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)


Better open your eyes if you can't see clearly

lexiconkabir:


I hope we keep this civil, i only said that because i know Christians will soon come here to derail the thread.... Therefore making it useless.

You should ignore their mentions and face me alone.

While Lexiconkabir will be away tomorrow, please, I will like to ask other Muslims a simple question that has been bothering my mind about the Koran

Does Muhammad or Angel Gabriel word appear in the Qur'an?

Obadiah77:


If this is actually true, then, what does this same verse in this sir ah mean 9V29:
Fight against those who (1) believe not in Allah, (2) nor in the Last Day, (3) nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger (4) and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
(Mohsin Khan)

We have other verses inspiring death for those who don't believe in Allah. I will show you more if you want to see.

Fighting those who don't believe in what Muslims believe is tantamount to compelling them to believe. What do you have to say here?

This has been takem care of, go to this thread.

https://www.nairaland.com/2538115/examining-quran-9-29-islam

What if one later found out that Islam is not real and decided to leave? You would kill him? This is compulsion if you ask me. Have you ever ask yourself if it's the same way in other religion, what would have been the case?

Capital punishment exists, why are people fixated on that of islam? Islam and the state aint separable, treason equals apostacy.

So Allah toldl Muhammed to start killing them for that reason?

Common be rational, execution is not peculiar to islam, islam unlike christianity is not separable from the state, so islam is guided by rules, if you are not satisfied with it, then dont come in the frst place.

Lies

This is why i hate debating.

Apparently, you are not underlings where you ought to underline. The underlined is the real deal here, why sign a treaty that has a fixed period of when you would later killed them? This was made known in the verse that follows. 9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)

This also has been taken care of

https://www.nairaland.com/2577484/quran-9-5-sword-verse

If you not cleared let me know.

Are u now cleared?

Look wella

I am yet to see any, as you can see no compulsion means, you won't be forced to accept.

Obadiah77:


9Verse 5:

Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V. 2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
(Mohsin Khan)


Better open your eyes if you can't see clearly

I could have ignore you based on your last sentence but I won't because I want to know your position you are arguing from, are you debating as a free thinker or as a Christian
@ the above verse, did you read the context of the verse before quoting randomly, but I trust lexiconkabir to make that clearer to you

Obadiah77:
While Lexiconkabir will be away tomorrow, please, I will like to ask other Muslims a simple question that has been bothering my mind about the Koran

Does Muhammad or Angel Gabriel word appear in the Qur'an?

Nothing like such but if you have any evidence, come out with it

The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Sharapp goat, you are not wanted here.

We continue tomorrow.

Obadiah77:
We continue tomorrow.

you argues alot. Religion section will never help you.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

Thank you, dont forget to go through here >>>>>> when leaving, or better still go this way
<<<<<<<<<<.

Obadiah77:
We continue tomorrow.

After sunset, i got an exam to write by 3pm.

Obadiah77:


Sharapp goat, you are not wanted here.

Haba bro, that was harsh.

Let me spread my mat here.

lexiconkabir:

This has been takem care of, go to this thread.
https://www.nairaland.com/2538115/examining-quran-9-29-islam
Capital punishment exists, why are people fixated on that of islam? Islam and the state aint separable, treason equals apostacy.
Common be rational, execution is not peculiar to islam, islam unlike christianity is not separable from the state, so islam is guided by rules, if you are not satisfied with it, then dont come in the frst place.
This is why i hate debating.
This also has been taken care of
https://www.nairaland.com/2577484/quran-9-5-sword-verse
Are u now cleared?
I am yet to see any, as you can see no compulsion means, you won't be forced to accept.

Referring to other sources is something I wouldn't like in this debate. I will like us discuss here without referring anyone to somewhere else.

In other not to waste much time on this particular question, for we will certainly come bavk to it. lets take another one.

Can you please address my second question about the quran?

RealLordZeus:

I could have ignore you based on your last sentence but I won't because I want to know your position you are arguing from, are you debating as a free thinker or as a Christian

I will regard myself as a free thinker.

@ the above verse, did you read the context of the verse before quoting randomly, but I trust lexiconkabir to make that clearer to you

Youat first said only Allah is expected to deal with unbelievers which is contrary to what the verse was about, now you are changing your opinion.

RealLordZeus:

Nothing like such but if you have any evidence, come out with it

This is a question that interest me the most and since it is evident that you don't know much about the koran, I will advise you allow other strong Islamist of Nairaland come and answer it.

I will await Lexiconkabir and other Muslims to answer it. That question is stronger than you think.

Amberon:
The thread will not be complete without letting the O.P know that Mohammad was a pedophile and homosexual who raped 9 year old Aisha and sucked the dick of a 10 year old boy.

We are still coming to this. It's a gradual process.

But I will like you to sit down and watch.

lexiconkabir:


After sunset, i got an exam to write by 3pm.

Ok

annunaki2:
Let me spread my mat here.

Do you know other Islamist that are stronger that kabiru, cuz I doubt kabiru' can withstand what I have for him.

I am very much interested in this topic, am gonna hang around to see the end of this..

Obadiah77:



Do you know other Islamist that are stronger that kabiru, cuz I doubt kabiru' can withstand what I have for him.

Demmzy15 rilwon / rilwayneoo1 your brother needs your help else he will be torn to shreds

lexiconkabir:


No compulsion in religion means, you wont be forced to accept islam, but once you are in Islam, you gotta be real, the law of apostacy was put in place, when the Jews of mecca were making mockery of thr religion, by becoming Muslims today and becoming apostates the next.



Obviously, this verse refers to the disbelievers in islam, that tried to fight against Muhammad in battle even after signing peace treaty, look at the next verse that follows so you can see what happens to those that did not fight against him.


"Exempted are those with whom you made [size=18pt]a treaty among the polytheists[/size] and then they have not been deficient toward you in anything or supported anyone against you; so complete for them their treaty until their term [has ended]. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him]."

So its obvious that the people in verse 3 were rebellious, they were not promised punishment just because they disbelieved.

If you not cleared let me know.



As you can see, there is no contradiction there......

No compulsion in islam you said? Stop deceiving yourself boy.

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah'. And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally."

Muslim (1:30) - "The Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah."

Bukhari (52:73) - "Allah's Apostle said, 'Know that Paradise is under the shades of swords'."

Bukhari (11:626) - [Muhammad said:] "I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those, who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes."