tonio2wo:


I really thought u know ur onions but feigning ignorance to this question shows you r not being sincere to ur quest of being an atheist (ur problem though)
You sound like someone who feels betrayed by god and wants to get back at him by disbelieving him.

Mind u, I am not a religious or churchious person. I thought I have met someone that can give cogent reasons/proofs of the in existence of gods. I was wrong!

Have a great life.

Dejideji1:


Your explanation still doesn't disprove the the idea of the creationists. Let's look at it practically, As a Creator if you want to create a living thing, let's say man for example, which of the things currently in existence would you create first?

Definitely you would have to create the things he will need to survive first, i can't create man before creating plants for instance because he won't survive.

So your idea of something evolving on what is available to survive is still justified by the idea of creationists. (You were formerly a Christian and you know the sequence of creation in Genesis)

Thus the explanation you gave still doesn't rule out the existence of an intelligent mind(God) behind creation.




Let me shed more light on what i meant by chaos in that context.

In the absence of chaos, there is orderliness, like i said, take a look around you and see things for yourself.
Examples to prove orderliness in nature are many let me sight some of them:
-day and night sequence
-seasons
-water cycle

-planets in orbits (note how accurate/orderly it is for Kepler to generate laws and equation for it.)

-DNA sequence
-food chain (note the cycle living things go through, its so well planned that everything is utilized, and becomes food to the other)
And many more..

A system in chaos can not have any of those listed above

Dejideji1:


Don't mind him, i know when i push him to the wall, that is what he will eventually say.

KingEbukasBlog:


Good job bro. Keep pushing him till admits he does not know but then he'll disappointingly end it with "...but its not God" . Oh well

HardMirror:

Lol
What are you feeling like.

Sure you think you will get a medal or what?

HardMirror:

You make a lot of sense.
At this point everyone can choose what he wants to. It makes sense that a creator created things in order to survive on each other and it also makes sense that things evolved depending on each other. Examining the idea of an intelligent creator would require finding the origin of such a creator for such a creator too can't be a product of chance. So where does that leave us?

I am feeling you. Ride on

HardMirror:

You just fvcked up big time.
Would have made sense for you to keep making your points and asking questions. I was really enjoying the flow. Don't expect any reply from me anymore not with this attitude.

KingEbukasBlog:


Ogbeni , answer his questions with proof joor ! Kilode

Dejideji1:


Don't mind him, i know when i push him to the wall, that is what he will eventually say.

Dejideji1:


Bro relax, why are you perturbed?
Meanwhile let me answer ur question above.

HardMirror:

I don't know what you mean by supernatural powers.
If you mean powers exhibited in movies. Then no, I don't believe they exist.

If you mean things we can't explain. I don't call such supernatural powers, I regard them as yet to be explained incidences.

HardMirror:

You make a lot of sense.
At this point everyone can choose what he wants to. It makes sense that a creator created things in order to survive on each other and it also makes sense that things evolved depending on each other. Examining the idea of an intelligent creator would require finding the origin of such a creator for such a creator too can't be a product of chance. So where does that leave us?

I am feeling you. Ride on

Dejideji1:



I know where you are going, your question simply means, "if God created everything, then he too must have been created then who created God?"

I can't believe you are still asking this question, because it has been raised several times on this forum and it has been dealt with.

Answering that question will lead to an infinite regression of causes. If we go by the law of cause and effect.
God is eternal, he caused time to exist so that the law of cause and effect will hold thus there will be consequences for every action taken.

God is not bound by the dimensions of space and time thus he doesn't need to be created, it's only something that is bounded by time that needs to be created.

The Bible also attest to the eternal nature of God. Only that you choose not to believe the Bible.

I will refer you to a topic that once made FP for more details.
Search for:

"if God created everything, who created God?"

Splinz:

@ the boldfaced. HardMirror, has it occurred to you that while these things are inexplicable to you, to some people, what appears to you as "mysteries" are termed "supernatural", and the powers of the supernatural have not just been felt or experienced but used?

You see, I'm not against anyone believing whatsoever gladdens his heart. But the thing is, arrogantly dismissing unknown knowledge based on grounds of unwillingness or not just privileged to learn such a knowledge doesn't in anyway translate to a non existence or explanation of the said knowledge, a good example is the existence of God. This is most true if we're to believe on the 'pluralistic' nature of knowledge, as believing the contrary depicts extreme self-deceit and an attitude of monopoly of knowledge.

Anyways, of course you're always at liberty to believe what suits your belly. That's why someone like me will always salute whatever opinion one holds. Cheers!

HardMirror:

Lol @ perturbed. I opened the thread for sincere and open minded discussions and willingness to learn from sincere people. You have revealed a mindset that disgusts me, so post all you want. This is the last reply I am honoring you with.

KingEbukasBlog:
This is where I need kingebukanaija to troll the hell out of this poltroon

Dejideji1:


Lolz, is this an indirect way of conceding defeat? Anyway it's so sad you couldn't keep-up with the argument.

I don't want this discussion to degenerate into the use of abusive words on each other, But I want you and other Atheists to know that you are taking a big risk.

Majority of you guys are agnostic, you are not dead sure that God does not exist, so why play with risk? Why gamble with your eternity?

What if when you die you find out God exists? How do you want to sort your self out? And i hope you know what each and every religion teach about the fate of those who do not believe in him (God) and the dire consequences they will face?

So why not play safe? Let me leave you with this wise words that has been quoted several times on this forum before :

It says why not live your life as if there is a God and after death find out there is none then you don't lose anything rather than live like there is none and end up discovering there is one? Then face the dire consequences.

Meanwhile you may also read the comment by physicist Conn Henry on my profile. I implore all Atheist on this thread to do the same.

Ranchhoddas:
Multiple Personality Disorder?

hopefulLandlord:


Pascal's wager again, it assumes Yahweh is the true god

So what if you die and find out Allah is actually the true god? You're just as screwed as us

KingEbukasBlog:


Look up "Allah" you might learn a thing or two

HardMirror:
Simple.
Don't ask for my Name cos I am not ready to reveal my identity. Yes I am afraid of people than I am afraid of an imaginary God. I know how Nigerians hate atheists, not ready to be lynched.

Any other questions are welcomed

hopefulLandlord:


The point of the post is lost on you as always

There are 5000 different gods, your odd of choosing the right one is 1/5000

But never mind, only yours is right

BossTtdiamonds:


The fact that the odd of choosing right doesn't negate the fact that the one he choose might just be right.

Take for instance 5000 persons each having a personal key.
You wish to access a door and of the 5000 persons, you can select any to try of their key.
Should you by chance choose the correct person with the correct key does not negate the fact of truth here cuz the odds states 1 in 5000.
Its not about the odds bro, its about choosing right..

hopefulLandlord:


You're still proving yourself expert at shooting yourself

You're saying he might be right which also leaves the possibility that he might be wrong, amirite?

So he's basically telling the guy to chose his own even though he might be wrong and have just same fate as someone who didn't chose at all

BossTtdiamonds:


Here's my question... "What exactly was your calling?".

BossTtdiamonds:


You're bad at this....
My assertion was never at your intended (was never to tell you whether he's right or wrong)
My assertion was to dispel your logic about choosing 1 of 5000

HardMirror:

I was an more of an evangelist though the church leadership gave me pastorial roles occasionally, but soul winning was my passion and what I enjoyed doing most.

BossTtdiamonds:

I'm sorry sir, but this is not the answer to the question...
What was your calling? Infers in what department of the "5 fold ministry" were you called into?
I'd really appreciate if you can spell this out.

hopefulLandlord:


Lol

And what logic have you "dispelled"?

Those with the remaining 4999 keys are just as doomed as someone without a key at all

There's a possibility of the door being thrown wide open or there's no door at all since there's a possibility we stay dead after death so holding a key might just end up being as useless as not holding any

And even if your god is the one true God, what makes you so sure he'll throw me in hell

He just might allow atheists and Christians alone into heaven while throwing adherents of other religions into hell since he " works in mysterious ways"

HardMirror:

Ephesians 4:11. I just told you evangelism -evangelist. What else do you want. Is there another name for evangelist?

HardMirror:

I was an more of an evangelist though the church leadership gave me pastorial roles occasionally, but soul winning was my passion and what I enjoyed doing most.