1stCitizen:


Show me where I made this claim..

You made it here :

1stCitizen:


Good question. At least you believe there are gods so forget the Atheism crap. Baal is a god. There are lesser gods and a supreme one.

Even the bible acknowledges there are are many gods but asks Christians to worship no other god beside Jehovah for he is a jealous God.

You already indicated that you were a Christian with those comments.

1stCitizen:


We could categorize atheists into four main areas:

Those who lack belief
Those who don't know if God exists
Those who doubt that God exists
Those who believe God does not exist

There are Atheists who have no belief in any god or gods (weak atheism). They may not know or doubt.

Then there are Anti-theists who are against the idea of God's existence (strong atheism).

They still are the same thing. I can relate with the latter who have a stronger conviction than the former who basically seem neither here nor there and seem lost.

The point is they all go through the same route to Atheism. Frustration, failure and disappointment brings doubt, resentment, grudge or outright unbelief.

You're getting this all wrong, about 65% of global atheist population were never for once in their life theist, so where does the disappointment, failure and frustration come in to play when they were never for once theistic?
I don't belief in god because there is no proof of his existence, its just a big whole universe, and religion doesn't cut it for me, that's why I seek knowledge anywhere I can find it.
Religion is just a lazy way out of the many things we don't know about our planet.
Many mysteries on our planet that the ancient men credited to a godly existence has been long discredited by science, and a lot more uncovering is going on, because you don't know how something happened, that doesn't give anyone a right to say a god did it, that's what our forefathers did, and that's why all religions and gods are manmade.
You are a christian and you believe your god is the one true god, while disbelieving in over a thousand other gods that exist today, what makes yours the true god and others a counterfeit?
I hope you get my drift.
And as regards your paragraph above claiming atheists who aren't anti-theist are still in doubt about god's existence is a clear cut hogwash, because I decided to let sleeping dogs lie, that doesn't necessary mean I don't think your doctrines are quite comical, we are just tolerant, 'why i entertain the bullocks, that doesn't mean am in doubts or the thought of religions and your theist gods doesn't make me sick inside.
Some atheist and anti-theist theist converts might convert based on some petty reason like disappointments and frustrations, but not all converts are that petty.

dalaman:


You made it here :


You already indicated that you were a Christian with those comments.

How? Come on lets argue intelligently nah. Even the verdic sanskrit says .......... does that statement claim the writer is Hindu. Note the use of the word 'even' at the beginning. Do you know what that means in starting a statement?

Please argue logically. I am still waiting for you to show me where I called myself a christian in this thread.

dablazor:

You're getting this all wrong, about 65% of global atheist population were never for once in their life theist, so where does the disappointment, failure and frustration come in to play when they were never for once theistic?
I don't belief in god because there is no proof of his existence, its just a big whole universe, and religion doesn't cut it for me, that's why I seek knowledge anywhere I can find it.
Religion is just a lazy way out of the many things we don't know about our planet.
Many mysteries on our planet that the ancient men credited to a godly existence has been long discredited by science, and a lot more uncovering is going on, because you don't know how something happened, that doesn't give anyone a right to say a god did it, that's what our forefathers did, and that's why all religions and gods are manmade.
You are a christian and you believe your god is the one true god, while disbelieving in over a thousand other gods that exist today, what makes yours the true god and others a counterfeit?
I hope you get my drift.
And as regards your paragraph above claiming atheists who aren't anti-theist are still in doubt about god's existence is a clear cut hogwash, because I decided to let sleeping dogs lie, that doesn't necessary mean I don't think your doctrines are quite comical, we are just tolerant, 'why i entertain the bullocks, that doesn't mean am in doubts or the thought of religions and your theist gods doesn't make me sick inside.
Some atheist and anti-theist theist converts might convert based on some petty reason like disappointments and frustrations, but not all converts are that petty.

I based my conclusions on research which were stated on this thread. You guys believe in empirical evidence don't you. So here it is staring right back at you.

That doesn't mean am in doubts or the thought of religions and your theist gods doesn't make me sick inside.

You don't néed a psychologist to see the bitterness in this statement or grudge.

That is the route to Atheism based on facts. Please disprove same with facts and not sentiments.

1stCitizen:


How? Come on lets argue intelligently nah. Even the verdic sanskrit says .......... does that statement claim the writer is Hindu. Note the use of the word 'even' at the beginning. Do you know what that means in starting a statement?

Please argue logically. I am still waiting for you to show me where I called myself a christian in this thread.

You indicated you were a christian by pointing to the bible. I said you indicated you were a christian. I know you are a christian so let's cut the Chase. Nothing makes you special by believing in the God of the slave masters and colonialist.

dalaman:


You indicated you were a christian by pointing to the bible. I said you indicated you were a christian. I know you are a christian so let's cut the Chase. Nothing makes you special by believing in the God of the slave masters and colonialist.

Believing in Atheist ideas handed down by your supreme white masters does not make you special.

I finally got to say it. You believe I am a christian but cannot prove it. I can quote the Verdic verses very well too but I am no Hindu. So your whole concept of non belief is quite hypocritical. You at least should not believe in things you cannot prove.

1stCitizen:


Believing in Atheist ideas handed down by your supreme white masters does not make you special.

I'm going to stop you there. That assertion is dead wrong. Atheism has been observed in a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C4377445222]variety of cultures[/url] throughout history.

CoolUsername:


I'm going to stop you there. That assertion is dead wrong. Atheism has been observed in a [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C4377445222]variety of cultures[/url] throughout history.

Other religions too like Christianity were moved from another culture before it got to Rome the white mans enclave.

So your assertion is also dead wrong.I have added the part you deleted to quote me.

I finally got to say it. You believe I am a christian but cannot prove it. I can quote the Verdic verses very well too but I am no Hindu. So your whole concept of non belief is quite hypocritical. You at least should not believe in things you cannot prove

dablazor:

You're getting this all wrong, about 65% of global atheist population were never for once in their life theist, so where does the disappointment, failure and frustration come in to play when they were never for once theistic?
I don't belief in god because there is no proof of his existence, its just a big whole universe, and religion doesn't cut it for me, that's why I seek knowledge anywhere I can find it.
Religion is just a lazy way out of the many things we don't know about our planet.
Many mysteries on our planet that the ancient men credited to a godly existence has been long discredited by science, and a lot more uncovering is going on, because you don't know how something happened, that doesn't give anyone a right to say a god did it, that's what our forefathers did, and that's why all religions and gods are manmade
You are a christian and you believe your god is the one true god, while disbelieving in over a thousand other gods that exist today, what makes yours the true god and others a counterfeit?
I hope you get my drift.
And as regards your paragraph above claiming atheists who aren't anti-theist are still in doubt about god's existence is a clear cut hogwash, because I decided to let sleeping dogs lie, that doesn't necessary mean I don't think your doctrines are quite comical, we are just tolerant, 'why i entertain the bullocks, that doesn't mean am in doubts or the thought of religions and your theist gods doesn't make me sick inside.
Some atheist and anti-theist theist converts might convert based on some petty reason like disappointments and frustrations, but not all converts are that petty.

what our forefathers believed is different from Christianity and Islam pls. there were people who devoted their lives to unraveling mysteries of the universe rather than just say "a god did it"
take yorubaland for instance. ..the people who made the most contribution to the understanding of a particular aspect of nature were in fact the "Gods" ie. Orisa
and I believe it is similar in other parts of sub Saharan africa

that is if you understand what I'm saying

1stCitizen:


I based my conclusions on research which were stated on this thread. You guys believe in empirical evidence don't you. So here it is staring right back at you.
You don't néed a psychologist to see the bitterness in this statement or grudge.

That is the route to Atheism based on facts. Please disprove same with facts and not sentiments.

Your conclusions are not far-fetched.
That isn't my own route to atheism, along with many others, might be for some selected few, but not me, so please stop going about with that opinion proudly displayed on your divan, don't generalize it.
I have no problem with you theists, as long as you live and let live.

Bitterness? In what respect? What I dont fancy is the ignorance, am an academic, so its very normal.
If am marking scripts of a student and he seems to get it all wrong I wouldn't be pleased.

dalaman:


You forget that the babalawos or ritualist want money as well. It is an enterprise that they are running mostly for money. Forget the fiction you are used to watching in Nigerian movies. They just keep.promoting this ideas and make them look real and acceptable but they are fiction. Non of them has anything to do with reality. The ritualist will call names of prominent people and claim they helped them get rich and famous but it's all lies.

These ritualist function like all these prosperity pastors. They will tell you to sow seed and God will make you rich. Many people go to Sunday week in week out sowing seeds but their lot in life still remains the same. Even when progress comes it doesn't come it as a result of the sowing of seed but they attribute it to the sowing of seeds.

If you want lots of money it's either you work for it legally or illegally or you inherit it from someone, win a lottery or something. Killing your entire village because a ritualist tell you to do so will not make you rich.

White people do not believe in money rituals. They own all the wealth in the world today. We have nothing compared to them despite our money ritual claims.

look at how he's saying all this as if he knows what he's talking about

what babalawo do you know that has done money ritual?

macof:


what our forefathers believed is different from Christianity and Islam pls. there were people who devoted their lives to unraveling mysteries of the universe rather than just say "a god did it"
take yorubaland for instance. ..the people who made the most contribution to the understanding of a particular aspect of nature were in fact the "Gods" ie. Orisa
and I believe it is similar in other parts of sub Saharan africa

that is if you understand what I'm saying

Am a proud African and I respect our traditions, and I regard the African gods(orisas) unlike the imported ones, not that I believe either actually exist.
But don't you feel this said understanding of nature like herbs for instance which you said were given to us by the gods, were actually knowledge gained via experiences by our ancestors and later passed down generations and not based on the divine intervention of the orisas(gods)? Aren't the gods just a representation of the supernatural (which is nonexistent) and most especially, tradition/culture?
I don't believe in the supernatural and gods.

macof:



look at how he's saying all this as if he knows what he's talking about

what babalawo do you know that has done money ritual?

Babalawo here simply means juju man that engages in money ritual.

dablazor:

Your conclusions are not far-fetched.
That isn't my own route to atheism, along with many others, might be for some selected few, but not me, so please stop going about with that opinion proudly displayed on your divan, don't generalize it.
I have no problem with you theists, as long as you live and let live.

Bitterness? In what respect? What I dont fancy is the ignorance, am an academic, so its very normal.
If am marking scripts of a student and he seems to get it all wrong I wouldn't be pleased.

Your bitterness or anger displayed by that statement and the attempt to clarify issues are diametrically opposed to each other.

You have no problem with those who get it wrong but then go on to say you get displeased.Contradictory innit?

It may do you good to read what exposed your bitterness and grudge even if you fail to realize it's there. Your analogy of a student does not fit in with your 'thoughts' as stated here.

That doesn't mean am in doubts or the thought of religions and your theist gods doesn't make me sick inside

So much for live and let live
.

1stCitizen:


Your bitterness or anger displayed by that statement and the attempt to clarify issues are diametrically opposed to each other.

You have no problem with those who get it wrong but then go on to say you get displeased.Contradictory innit?

It may do you good to read what exposed your bitterness and grudge even if you fail to realize it's there. Your analogy of a student does not fit in with your 'thoughts' as stated here.



So much for live and let live
.

You would never get my point, you're hardwired to believe what you want.
perhaps some other time.

dablazor:

You would never get my point, you're hardwired to believe what you want.
perhaps some other time.

I do get it very well. You shot yourself on the foot with that statement. Accept it a move on.

dablazor:

Am a proud African and I respect our traditions, and I regard the African gods(orisas) unlike the imported ones, not that I believe either actually exist.
But don't you feel this said understanding of nature like herbs for instance which you said were given to us by the gods, were actually knowledge gained via experiences by our ancestors and later passed down generations and not based on the divine intervention of the orisas(gods)? Aren't the gods just a representation of the supernatural (which is nonexistent) and most especially, tradition/culture?
I don't believe in the supernatural and gods.

lmao. I thought my post would confuse you a bit. . I was right


lemme say those ancestors that had the knowledge and shared it were the Gods themselves


Historically, at around say 500BC sub saharan africa probably didn't have shrines at all. .. even today some of the oldest african cultures don't have shrines dedicated to Gods eg. Baka, San, Gbaya people.. there are of course many more


hence this shrines and temples were more like schools learning the ways of the "Gods"

1stCitizen:


I do get it very well. You shot yourself on the foot with that statement. Accept it a move on.

I never shot myself in the foot, you only twisted my words just to serve your point.
Anyway whatever makes you sleep at night, besides I prefer having these sorts of arguments verbally.

macof:



lmao. I thought my post would confuse you a bit. . I was right


lemme say those ancestors that had the knowledge and shared it were the Gods themselves


Historically, at around say 500BC sub saharan africa probably didn't have shrines at all. .. even today some of the oldest african cultures don't have shrines dedicated to Gods eg. Baka, San, Gbaya people.. there are of course many more


hence this shrines and temples were more like schools learning the ways of the "Gods"

Oh okay, if I catch your drift correctly, your insinuation implies that gods=ancestors=forefathers, and there is nothing supernatural about them, just tradition.

1stCitizen:


God tells you that hard work brings prosperity so there is nothing different from what you just said.

Forget what the white man makes you believe. They understand the concept of sowing seeds and harvest. It is a spiritual law that is not restricted to religion.

I live amongst them so I can tell you more. Do you know the UK government supports Churches and even mosques?

Very funny but if I bring a diabolic object and ask you to swear you do not have grudges against God and believe in the devil you will run away.

Yes the UK government and government of several other countries endorse religion(s) because it urges people to obey the laws of their land as part of the conditions to achieve peace and meet the ultimate 'goal'.

For instance, in the bible. Paul said in Romans 13:1 that christians should obey the government in power. Which of course means that if christians don't obey the government in power, then they're not headed for the ultimate 'goal' which is to rule with God in heaven.

Please why shouldn't the government endorse such religion that has urged the people that practice it to obey its rules. this religion even has stringent repercussions on those who fail to obey it?

1stCitizen:


Other religions too like Christianity were moved from another culture before it got to Rome the white mans enclave.

So your assertion is also dead wrong.I have added the part you deleted to quote me.

Considering the fact that Christianity's main canon' the Bible was compiled by the Romans before it found its was to Africa -alongside slavery which it doesn't condemn.

Atheism has existed in several different sects. It has no doctrine, so I can say with some degree of confidence that not 100% of the Africans that have ever existed before the coming of the white man would have believed in the gods.

dablazor:

Oh okay, if I catch your drift correctly, your insinuation implies that gods=ancestors=forefathers, and there is nothing supernatural about them, just tradition.

exactly! and to go further by addressing your use of the word "supernatural"; Nothing can exist beyond or above Nature. .so supernatural is simply fictional...I mean who doesn't like tales of the supernatural?

CoolUsername:


Considering the fact that Christianity's main canon' the Bible was compiled by the Romans before it found its was to Africa -alongside slavery which it doesn't condemn.

Atheism has existed in several different sects. It has no doctrine, so I can say with some degree of confidence that not 100% of the Africans that have ever existed before the coming of the white man would have believed in the gods.

The Torah was compiled by who? Romans too?

You made a lot of statements that do no justice to your line of argument. However there something very interesting about it as one can see why African Atheists are very superstitious.

KaBabs1:


Yes the UK government and government of several other countries endorse religion(s) because it urges people to obey the laws of their land as part of the conditions to achieve peace and meet the ultimate 'goal'.

For instance, in the bible. Paul said in Romans 13:1 that christians should obey the government in power. Which of course means that if christians don't obey the government in power, then they're not headed for the ultimate 'goal' which is to rule with God in heaven.

Please why shouldn't the government endorse such religion that has urged the people that practice it to obey its rules. this religion even has stringent repercussions on those who fail to obey it?

The only sound arguement from an Atheist so far only that you fail to add that the state also realized that the worst crimes against humanity in the last 200 years were carried out by Atheists hence the encourage religious worship as most religions revolve round the concept of morality which is absent among Atheists.

Not possessing a religious basis for morality, atheists are fundamentally incapable of having a coherent system of morality which is based on the worldview of atheism
The Barna Group found that atheists and agnostics in America were more likely, than theists in America, to look upon the following behaviors as morally acceptable: illegal drug use; excessive drinking; sexual relationships outside of marriage; abortion; cohabiting with someone of opposite sex outside of marriage; obscene language; gambling; pornography and obscene sexual behavior; and engaging in homosexuality/bisexuality

Which government that has the goodwill of its people at heart will not encourage religious worship after such revelations.

1stCitizen:


The Torah was compiled by who? Romans too?

You made a lot of statements that do no justice to your line of argument. However there something very interesting about it as one can see why African Atheists are very superstitious.

While the Old Testament was plagiarised from the Torah, it was carefully streamlined and edited by the very same Roman people. The finished product you see today was dictated by these men.

CoolUsername:


While the Old Testament was plagiarised from the Torah, it was carefully streamlined and edited by the very same Roman people. The finished product you see today was dictated by these men.

You are still digressing with statements that are in no way aligned to your arguments. In a law court you could easily find yourself in hot soup as you wriggle around in circles whereas the case against you remains the same. Just saying.

Lets agree that the old testament was plagiarized from the Torah.....no one really cares anyway. I still ask.....was the Torah written by the white-man? Or the Vedic Taskrit or Pali Canon? These are religious books. Aren't they? You do not seem to get where I am headed for. You just fell right into the trap and shot yourself on the foot like the other guy. You are attacking the Christian religion which is typical of atheists as they are mostly disgruntled ex Christians who are against the christian God but are the most superstitious humans you can find(Shown by research). They forget that as an Atheist you should not believe in any religious practice or superstition and should not be afraid of Fetish satanic materials or practices as they are "fairy tales"

That is why many conclude that Atheists are hypocrites. I can go further to say that True Atheism does not exist today. Yes! it does not. the only thing that exists are disgruntled ex-Christians that hate ONLY the Christian God.

1stCitizen:


You are still digressing with statements that are in no way aligned to your arguments. In a law court you could easily find yourself in hot soup as you wriggle around in circles whereas the case against you remains the same. Just saying.

Lets agree that the old testament was plagiarized from the Torah.....no one really cares anyway. I still ask.....was the Torah written by the white-man? Or the Vedic Taskrit or Pali Canon? These are religious books. Aren't they? You do not seem to get where I am headed for. You just fell right into the trap and shot yourself on the foot like the other guy. You are attacking the Christian religion which is typical of atheists as they are mostly disgruntled ex Christians who are against the christian God but are the most superstitious humans you can find(Shown by research). They forget that as an Atheist you should not believe in any religious practice or superstition and should not be afraid of Fetish satanic materials or practices as they are "fairy tales"

That is why many conclude that Atheists are hypocrites. I can go further to say that True Atheism does not exist today. Yes! it does not. the only thing that exists are disgruntled ex-Christians that hate ONLY the Christian God.

You're the one who is digressing here. You called atheism a white man's ideology, true or false? I said that you were wrong, and that it was Christianity that brought to is by the whites, true or false?

Your the one who brought up the Torah in all this. And now you're parroting false notions against atheists. I didn't attack Christianity, you attacked atheists with this thread and I have no problem with that. I only came to point out your false statement about atheism and you've refused to acknowledge that you were wrong.

So don't try to remove attention from your blatant error.

CoolUsername:


You're the one who is digressing here. You called atheism a white man's ideology, true or false? I said that you were wrong, and that it was Christianity that brought to is by the whites, true or false?

Your the one who brought up the Torah in all this. And now you're parroting false notions against atheists. I didn't attack Christianity, you attacked atheists with this thread and I have no problem with that. I only came to point out your false statement about atheism and you've refused to acknowledge that you were wrong.

So don't try to remove attention from your blatant error.

Trying to call me a Christian when my initial argument was your belief in satanism is not digression? Wow! then attacking Christianity(Shocked at your denial) as handed down by the white man is not digression from the argument of your strong superstitious beliefs, which is what the thread is all about. Is that not digression.

What then is digression in the Atheist world? Let me digress as that is all you have done so far. Which of the earlier disciples of Christ that spread Christianity was a white man? smh

Show me where I called myself a christian. You cannot but rather inferring from statements that I quoted the Bible. For your info...Even the devil can quote the Bible and Quran. I have decided not to go down that route as I know you are trying to be diversionary. Yes Atheism is an idea developed and pursued by the whiteman in the 18th century and yes that makes you feel special. The early cultures that you try to label as Atheist just did not know what to believe until they found spiritual enlightenment.

The most shocking is the hypocrisy you display. You use the philosophy of the white man to oil the engine of your godlessness and tell the world that it is not the white man idea.

In the early 18th century, disbelief was gathering serious steam in Europe. Secret documents challenging religious belief had been circulating for 50 years, just steps ahead of the censors. French parishioners going through the papers of their Catholic priest who died in 1729 found copies of a book, written by the priest for them, telling how much he detested and disbelieved the religion he’d taught them for 40 years.

By the end of the century, philosophers in France, Germany, and England were openly challenging religious power and ideas and establishing modern concepts of human rights and individual liberty.

You can see the grudge from one of your pioneers and how your movement of disgruntled christian elements started.

Now lets go back to the main issue. Atheists are superstitious and the African Atheist is a hypocrite. I gave empirical research results to back up that fact so stop the circular arguments.

1stCitizen:


Trying to call me a Christian when my initial argument was your belief in satanism is not digression? Wow! then attacking Christianity(Shocked at your denial) as handed down by the white man is not digression from the argument of your strong superstitious beliefs, which is what the thread is all about. Is that not digression.

What then is digression in the Atheist world? Let me digress as that is all you have done so far. Which of the earlier disciples of Christ that spread Christianity was a white man?

Show me where I called myself a christian. You cannot but rather inferring from statements that I quoted the Bible. For your info...Even the devil can quote the Bible and Quran. I have decided not to go down that route as I know you are trying to be diversionary. Yes Atheism is an idea developed and pursued by the whiteman in the 18th century and yes that makes you feel special. The early cultures that you try to label as Atheist just did not know what to believe until they found spiritual enlightenment.

The most shocking is the hypocrisy you display. You use the philosophy of the white man to oil the engine of your godlessness and tell the world that it is not the white man idea.

You can see the grudge from one of your pioneers and how your movement of disgruntled christian elements started.

Now lets go back to the main issue. Atheists are superstitious and the African Atheist is a hypocrite. I gave empirical research results to back up that fact so stop the circular arguments.

When did I call you a Christian? I'm not that guy you were arguing with the other day.

CoolUsername:


When did I call you a Christian? I'm not that guy you were arguing with the other day.

My bad. Apologies I thought you changed monikers. okay it means the comment below is for you

Yes Atheism is an idea developed and pursued by the whiteman in the 18th century and yes that makes you feel special. The early cultures that you try to label as Atheist just did not know what to believe until they found spiritual enlightenment.

You use the philosophy of the white man to oil the engine of your godlessness and tell the world that it is not the white man idea. Hypocrisy at its peak.

I leave you with an extract below from - The Origin Of Atheism

In the early 18th century, disbelief was gathering serious steam in Europe. Secret documents challenging religious belief had been circulating for 50 years, just steps ahead of the censors. French parishioners going through the papers of their Catholic priest who died in 1729 found copies of a book, written by the priest for them, telling how much he detested and disbelieved the religion he’d taught them for 40 years.

By the end of the century, philosophers in France, Germany, and England were openly challenging religious power and ideas and establishing modern concepts of human rights and individual liberty.