crackhaus:

Italian Civil Code (article 143 bis)
Read up on that, maybe I misread it.

I'm not the Italian legislature...take it up with them, not me.

Wikipedia says that an Italian woman keeps her maiden name and has the option of adding her husband's name. This is different from what you have said. Who is more reliable? Crackhaus or Wikipedia?

Berlusconi's wife has kept her maiden name, I just saw, even though Berlusconi is tthe walking symbol of machìsmo.

shaybebaby:

I'll ask him when he gets home. Not sure if it is an issue over there.

Thanks.

crackhaus:

People assume it is a white construct because it's whites (more specifically, Americans) that popularized it and is still trying to force it down everyone's throats

But they don't tug their forelocks at people or beg them to watch I am Catlyn or Empire or any of their gay-depicting TV shows?, do they?. People watch it out of their own volition, so how are they forcing it down our throats? And isn't it a bit hypocritical how despite our sanctimoniousness and public display of holiness we are still at the upswing side of the curve in gay-porn consumption?

- it certainly isn't a Negro construct.

Of course. It's an atavistic trait that cuts across all races, though it was patent in some parts{ancient Greece and Rome} and dormant in some. Nonetheless it was there.

No single African/Nigerian here who grew up in African/Nigerian in the 80s and below, can claim he/she grew up seeing two men or two women having sex together as normal

Even in the '80s in America, homosexuality was considered a BIG taboo. It was career suicide for an entertainer, public figure etc to come out of the closet in that epoch. It's only of recent that Americans are becoming a bit liberal.

Did you hear about Queen Elizabeth II of Britain saying NO to gay marriage recently?
Care to tell us why...

Because of her Christian faith - simple as whistling Dixie.

crackhaus:

What you should be trying to find out is if it is indeed a fact that Greece enacted a law in 1983 stating that women should legally keep their birth name till death, and leave me the fvck alone.

I have checked it and I have shown you Greek women who have taken on their husband's name, kept their maiden name or hyphenated the two.

Mehn, you are too impatiant when it comes to topics like this. Loosen up!

Mindfulness:


Wikipedia says that an Italian woman keeps her maiden name and has the option of adding her husband's name. This is different from what you have said. Who is more reliable? Crackhaus or Wikipedia?

Berlusconi's wife has kept her maiden name, I just saw, even though Berlusconi is tthe walking symbol of machìsmo.

Your only problem with me is that you just can't stomach how I know so much and it keeps you up at night, which is why you've been nitpicking here and there like a hungry hen looking for holes where there is none.

I already told you to read up on the Italian Civil Code (article 143 bis). Do you think I didn't already know that women are allowed to only hyphenate?
The argument here is based on changing surnames completely from maiden name to husband's surname - this is not allowed.

Take up your disbelief with the Italian legislature, not on an innocent well-read genius you are never able to match up to.

Mindfulness:


I have checked it and I have shown you Greek women who have taken on their husband's name, kept their maiden name or hyphenated the two.

Mehn, you are too impatiant when it comes to topics like this. Loosen up!

What is wrong with this one?

So if you already knew and agreed that Greece enacted a law in 1983 stating that women should keep their birth names legally till death, what then was my business with where you've travelled to or who you know?

crackhaus:

Your only problem with me is that you just can't stomach how I know so much and it keeps you up at night, which is why you've been nitpicking here and there like a hungry hen looking for holes where there is none.

Au contraire, I like and admire knowledge.

I already told you to read up on the Italian Civil Code (article 143 bis). Do you think I didn't already know that women are allowed to only hyphenate?

I didn't know it. I am quite surprised and glad that I had the chance to learn something here.

The argument here is based on changing surnames completely from maiden name to husband's surname - this is not allowed.

And you don't like it, right?

Take up your disbelief with the Italian legislature, not on an innocent well-read genius you are never able to match up to.

You are entitled to your opinion.

crackhaus:

What is wrong with this one?

So if you already knew and agreed that Greece enacted a law in 1983 stating that women should keep their birth names legally till death, what then was my business with where you've travelled to or who you know?

You said that women were not allowed to take on their husband's name in Greece and I knew it couldn't be true due to personal experience.
What you say now is different from what you have said at the beginning but it's ok even a genius can't know everything.

darkenedrebel:

But they don't tug their forelocks at people or beg them to watch I am Catlyn or Empire or any of their gay-depicting TV shows?, do they?. People watch it out of their own volition, so how are they forcing it down our throats? And isn't it a bit hypocritical how despite our sanctimoniousness and public display of holiness we are still at the upswing side of the curve in gay-porn consumption?

Sometimes arguing with some of you can be a brain-drain mehn...see the question you're asking me.

You don't know how they're forcing it down our throats.
Really?
- When Obama was trying to blackmail Ex-president Goodluck Jonathan and president Muhammadu Buhari into allowing homosexuality, you were in a coma?

- When US was busy throwing sanctions here and there on Zimbabwe, was their refusal to accept homosexuality not part of the many reasons?

- When a gay man decided to sue a heterosexual dating site for not allowing him find Homosexual love therein, you were sedated abi? Are there no gay sites?

- When gay couples were suing pastors and wedding planners for not wanting to attend to them, you probably were in Antarctica with no network coverage I figure huh?

Of course. It's an atavistic trait and cuts across all races, though it was patent in some parts{ancient Greece and Rome} and dormant in some. Nonetheless it was there.

Greece and Rome are Negro?

Even in the '80s in America, homosexuality was considered a BIG taboo. It was career suicide for an entertainer, public figure etc to come out of the closet in that epoch. It's only of recent that Americans are becoming a bit liberal.

Good, so everyone and every country must become liberal with them..
Because being liberal is the solution to economic regression.

Because of her Christian faith - simple as whistling Dixie.

Ahh, and here I was thinking the Queen of England says NO to gay marriage because she's an unliberated unexposed African living in a bush.

Thanks for the correction.

Mindfulness:


You said that women were not allowed to take on their husband's name in Greece and I knew it couldn't be true due to personal experience.
What you say now is different from what you have said at the beginning but it's ok even a genius can't know everything.

Women are not allowed to take on their husband's surname in Greece according to the enactment of 1983 due to the influence of feminism - fact.

That they're now allowed to ONLY hyphenate if they feel the need to, has not disproved the above statement of the law of 1983...
Again I ask, what exactly is your own?

bukatyne:


Feminism gives some people heart attack. .

I know Muslim wives are not to change their surnames to their husbands after marriage.

LMAO


Yeah, it is not recommended for a Muslim woman to change her name after marriage. Everyone is to be identified with his or her father's name.
The name is (so so so, daughter of Idris or whatever her father's name is) not wife of whatever her husband's name is.
And it makes perfect sense, anything can happen, a divorce can happen or the husband may die, is she supposed to keep changing her surname rather than keep the one that relates to her blood ties which can't change?
It's been debated whether it's haram or not to adopt the husband's name. I guess adopting the husband's name after marriage is just for identification.
Down here due to our Society, Muslim women change their surnames, some make it compound name. For a couple where both have adequate knowledge and understanding about it , she can decide to have her father's name..

darkenedrebel:


The same way one witless imbécile ignorantly claimed that homosexuality was invented by the Whites and that it is related with feminism.

Lolz

darkenedrebel:
Dictionary definition of Mrs:
noun: Mrs
''the title used before a surname or full name to address or refer to a married woman without a higher or honorific or professional title. "Mrs Sally Jones"

Question one: Since the dictionary has made it clear that Mrs. is a title used before a surname{which could either be that of her father or her husband's] then yes, I think it is sensible for her to retain her father's name if she wants to and if her husband has no problem with it . And I don't think married women asked to be referred to as 'Miss'.

Question 2: What makes a woman Mrs is that she's married. It doesn't matter whether it's her father or husband's name.

Question 3: What do you mean by 'love to eat their cake and have it'. Of course I know what that idiom means - what I want to know is how it is connected? And what does misguided feminism, social media insanity and bandwagon disease have to do with a woman choosing to retain her father's name?

The italicized means: once you eat your cake, it is gone. Once you accept to get and stay married into another family, your family's name becomes history. You can ask Aisha Buhari, Patience Jonathan and Turai Yar'adua why they failed to stick with their father's name.

This is Nigeria (Africa) where a bride's family still accept dowry and other associated perquisites.

You can continue to pretend and act like you have no understanding of my explanations. What I'm sure is that this singular thread will go a long way in depopulating the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry, yet attach the western ideology of name retention.

HaneefahRN:


LMAO


Yeah, it is not recommended for a Muslim woman to change her name after marriage. Everyone is to be identified with his or her father's name.
The name is (so so so, daughter of Idris or whatever her father's name is) not wife of whatever her husband's name is.
And it makes perfect sense, anything can happen, a divorce can happen or the husband may die, is she supposed to keep changing her surname rather than keep the one that relates to her blood ties which can't change?
It's been debated whether it's haram or not to adopt the husband's name. I guess adopting the husband's name after marriage is just for identification.
Down here due to our Society, Muslim women change their surnames, some make it compound name. For a couple where both have adequate knowledge and understanding about it , she can decide to have her father's name..

Is it Haram or not?

crackhaus:

Women are not allowed to take on their husband's surname in Greece according to the enactment of 1983 due to the influence of feminism - fact.

That they're now allowed to ONLY hyphenate if they feel the need to, has not disproved the above statement of the law of 1983...
Again I ask, what exactly is your own?

Wrong!

These Greek women have not kept their maiden name and have not hyphenated their maiden name with that of their husbands but dropped their maiden name and taken on their husband's name:

1. Aleka Papariga (politician)
2. Alkistis Protopsalti (singer)
3. Nana Karagouni (wife of a football player)
4. Efi Katsourani (wife of a football player)

crackhaus:

The fact you're asking that question gives credence to your ignorance about the history of 'name change' as regards marriage...apologies for the choice of words, but I'm sure you already know that I don't sugarcoat on here.

Retaining one's maiden name after marriage became more of a thing after the advent of gender equality cum feminism - examples of places where feminism and gender equality birthed it include USA, France, Greece, Belgium, Québec, Italy, etc. and oh, Nigeria of course.

With the exception of USA, it is now against the law for a woman to change her name legally after marriage in Greece, Belgium, Québec, and Italy...thanks to feminism.


** It should be clear however that there are actually cultures and countries where it has always been a tradition for women to attach their maiden names names to their surnames (not still compulsory though) - and off the top of my head, Spain and most spanish-speaking territories fall under this category.

It was actually the Spanish that started and made popular this new fad of hyphenated names for married women - it has always been a tradition for them but for every other person who does it, it is simply follow-follow or some supposed gender equality.

Korea and Malaysia also have a custom of women not changing their names at all after marriage (still not compulsory).



Now that I have listed these countries, especially those who have always had it as a custom for women to retain their maiden names,
What then is the excuse of a Nigerian woman who wants to retain her surname after marriage?

Ahh wait, I think I know the answer going by the OP's third question with the following options:

A. Misguided feminism
B. Social Media insanity
C. Bandwagon disease

The answer is All of the above

Your opinion of course. And why should it be anyone's headache or cause for unnecessary concern? At the end of the day it's the woman's identity not any other person's, she can decide to retain or leave her maiden name, for whatever reasons. That everyone drops theirs (bandwagon) doesn't mean she should if she doesn't want to. Especially if she had made a name for herself with her name or comes from an influential family, an only child or for whatever reasons that pleases her.

Call it whatever, doesn't change the fact that it is their decisions to make.

crackhaus:

Is it Haram or not?

There are varying Schools of thought. Some believe it to be haram while some say it is permissible but not compulsory

Mindfulness:

And you don't like it, right?

My opinion on married women keeping or changing their surnames after marriage has always remained the same.

If the maiden name is one that she has built a brand, business, or empire with...or possibly it's the name of an influential father which can open doors for her by recognition, then she may keep it ONLY if her husband agrees with the arrangement.

If she's like the majority with no big name, then I see no logical reason for her to keep it other than just to feel cool and exposed or join in the bandwagon.

Acidosis:


The italicized means: once you eat your cake, it is gone. Once you accept to get and stay married into another family, your family's name becomes history. You can ask Aisha Buhari, Patience Jonathan and Turai Yar'adua why they failed to stick with their father's name.

This is Nigeria (Africa) where a bride's family still accept dowry and other associated perquisites.

You can continue to pretend and act like you have no understanding of my explanations. What I'm sure is that this singular thread will go a long way in depopulating the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry, yet attach the western ideology of name retention.

It is western ideology to retain maiden names?

Interesting considering the fact the 'west' that brought it to Africa in the first place.

And your thread is NOT powerful enough to depopulate the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry and retain their names.

It is for the couple to decide.

HaneefahRN:


LMAO


Yeah, it is not recommended for a Muslim woman to change her name after marriage. Everyone is to be identified with his or her father's name.
The name is (so so so, daughter of Idris or whatever her father's name is) not wife of whatever her husband's name is.
And it makes perfect sense, anything can happen, a divorce can happen or the husband may die, is she supposed to keep changing her surname rather than keep the one that relates to her blood ties which can't change?
It's been debated whether it's haram or not to adopt the husband's name. I guess adopting the husband's name after marriage is just for identification.
Down here due to our Society, Muslim women change their surnames, some make it compound name. For a couple where both have adequate knowledge and understanding about it , she can decide to have her father's name..

Everyone does as they deem fit.

Some women have started adding their husband's first name to the surname sef.

Whatever rocks each person'e boat o jare.

Mindfulness:


Wrong!

These Greek women have not kept their maiden name and have not hyphenated their maiden name with that of their husbands but dropped their maiden name and taken on their husband's name:

1. Aleka Papariga (politician)
2. Alkistis Protopsalti (singer)
3. Nana Karagouni (wife of a football player)
4. Efi Katsourani (wife of a football player)

Did Greece enact that law in 1983, yes or no?

I nor dey for this your meandering today...

Acidosis:


The italicized means: once you eat your cake, it is gone. Once you accept to get and stay married into another family, your family's name becomes history. You can ask Aisha Buhari, Patience Jonathan and Turai Yar'adua why they failed to stick with their father's name.

This is Nigeria (Africa) where a bride's family still accept dowry and other associated perquisites.

You can continue to pretend and act like you have no understanding of my explanations. What I'm sure is that this singular thread will go a long way in depopulating the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry, yet attach the western ideology of name retention.

And here I am thinking using a surname and taking one's husband's name after marriage actually originated from the West.

Abeg is it compulsory to pay bride price ni? I'm tired of hearing all these cries about bride price

crackhaus:

My opinion on married women keeping or changing their surnames after marriage has always remained the same.

If the maiden name is one that she has built a brand, business, or empire with...or possibly it's the name of an influential father which can open doors for her by recognition, then she may keep it ONLY if her husband agrees with the arrangement.

If she's like the majority with no big name, then I see no logical reason for her to keep it other than just to feel cool and exposed or join in the bandwagon.

It's your opinion and you are entitled to it. You can go about it this way once you find a female you want to marry.

I believe that the fact that a man has no sons and one of his daughters decides to keep her father's name is understandable, too.
I also understand that some women feel very strong about their family's name and wouldn't want to give it up. They have been carrying this name for decades and for one reason or another love it. What's so bad about it?

bukatyne:

Everyone does as they deem fit.
Some women have started adding their husband's first name to the surname sef.
Whatever rocks each person'e boat o jare.

Thank you.
I don't know why some people make non-issues into a big deal

crackhaus:

Sometimes arguing with some of you can be a brain-drain mehn...see the question you're asking me

It was a valid question.

You don't know how they're forcing it down our throats.
Really?
When Obama was trying to blackmail Ex-president Goodluck Jonathan and president Muhammadu Buhari into allowing homosexuality, you were in a coma?

As predictable as the dilation of a pupil. When Obama was trying to blackmail President Buhari? Clown!

If you had referenced when Obama threatened to cut off aid money for the Ugandan police and health agencies if they did not drop the anti-gay law then you would have made little sense.

I dare say Obama only had the foresight of an oracle; the foresight to know that incidents like the Orlando gay bar shooting would be corollaries to criminalizing homosexuality. FYI, the only reason he visited Nigeria was as regards the civil rights of the LGBT community that were being flagrantly abused, he did not come to blackmail. And when he broached the topic of legalizing homosexuality to Buhari, it was refused, stomped out and never revisited. Stop dressing up facts.

But seriously, do you think the government has the right to decide what an individual decides to or not to do with his/her genitals.
It beats common sense you know.

- When US was busy throwing sanctions here and there on Zimbabwe, was their refusal to accept homosexuality not part of the many reasons?

Because the Zimbabwean government was guilty of ultra vires.

Washington: The United States on Thursday condemned Zimbabwe over raids on the offices of a gay rights group and urged authorities to end a "pattern of abuse" against civil society

- When a gay man decided to sue a heterosexual dating site for not allowing him find Homosexual love therein, you were sedated abi? Are there no gay sites?

Was the gay man a Nigerian or an African? And how is what 'one homosexual' wants translates to shoving it down our throats? You're not still not making sense.

- When gay couples were suing pastors and wedding planners for not wanting to attend to them, you probably were in Antarctica with no network coverage I figure huh?[/i]

You're just listing instances when gay people wanted this or wanted that. It says nothing about shoving it down our throats. The gay people in question, were they Africans? And most importantly, did this happen on African soil?. Answer is no - it happened on American soil. American soil, American affairs, so how is that shoving it down our throats?

Greece and Rome are Negro?

Look who was talking about brain-drain. I was only expatiating on my point by listing places where homosexuality had been patent. I never said that the Greeks were Negros...do I have to spell everything out?

Good, so everyone and every country must become liberal with them..
Because being liberal is the solution to economic regression

Is this a rhetorical question or sarcasm?

Ahh, and here I thought the Queen of England refused gay marriage because she's an unexposed African living in a bush.
Thanks for the correction.

Christian beliefs or religious precepts do not hold sway in modern politics, unless of course it is a theocratic system of government.

Section 10 of the 1999 Nigerian constitution as amended made it clear that: the federation or any state shall not adopt any religion as state religion.

Did you hear that? The state shall not adopt any religion as state religion, and that includes: 'shall not criminalize acts simply because the Bible or Koran states that such acts are wrong'

crackhaus:

Did Greece enact that law in 1983, yes or no?

I nor dey for this your meandering today...

Obviously, there is no law that makes it illegal for women to take on their husband's name.
Whatever the law says, is definitely not that it is illegal to drop your maiden name and take on your husband's name solely.


You are free to dig up the law. Let's see if the law is about women having a choice or women having no choice other than keeping their maiden name.


If the law states that it is illegal to take on your husband's name without including your maiden name, then we have criminals in parliament, music industry and football in Greece and also in town halls, in which officials have changed women's names to their husband's names.

HaneefahRN:



Your opinion of course. And why should it be anyone's headache or cause for unnecessary concern? At the end of the day it's the woman's identity not any other person's, she can decide to retain or leave her maiden name, for whatever reasons. That everyone drops theirs (bandwagon) doesn't mean she should if she doesn't want to. Especially if she had made a name for herself with her name or comes from an influential family, an only child or for whatever reasons that pleases her.

Call it whatever, doesn't change the fact that it is their decisions to make.

I only sought to enlighten you on the relationship between name change and feminism - indeed, the former is a direct consequence of the latter in most countries with the exception of Spanish-speaking territories, Korea and Malaysia like I already noted.

An average Nigerian woman with no strong family name has no business thinking of retaining her maiden name legally after marriage, it has never been our culture no matter how any of you try to look at it or paint it - it is a borrowed construct which is being perpetuated by women who want to seem posh, contemporary, cool, and well-exposed.

bukatyne:


It is western ideology to retain maiden names?

Interesting considering the fact the 'west' that brought it to Africa in the first place.

And your thread is NOT powerful enough to depopulate the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry and retain their names.

It is for the couple to decide.

You'd notice I keep emphasizing the word "misguided". I'm personally going to get married because my religion permits marriage, it has nothing to do with western culture. Marriage, like se.x between a man & a woman, is deeply rooted in spirituality, it is not a white man's thing. Those who instructed the adoption of "Mr & Mrs ××××" in a typical church or traditional marriage only institutionalized the instruction of making 1+1 equal to 1. Those who oppose such in the new age has so far not given any plausible explanation aside 'my choice". How did you know it is "my choice" without a prior mis-guidance from a lost feminist who is earnestly looking forward to a divorce?

How do you address a married man and a woman together? Mr & Mrs Tokunbo, right? Why not Mr Tokunbo and Mrs (My father's name)? or Mr Tokunbo and Miss Helen?

What do you lots want to achieve with the cake after eating it?

crackhaus:

I only sought to enlighten you on the relationship between name change and feminism - indeed, the former is a direct consequence of the latter in most countries with the exception of Spanish-speaking territories, Korea and Malaysia like I already noted.

An average Nigerian woman with no strong family name has no business thinking of retaining her maiden name legally after marriage, it has never been our culture no matter how any of you try to look at it or paint it - it is a borrowed construct which is being perpetuated by women who want to seem posh, contemporary, cool, and well-exposed.

Like changing one's name after marriage wasn't borrowed. Who knows how things were done back then?
It is her choice, it's her identity.

darkenedrebel:


[s]It was a valid question.



As predictable as the dilation of a pupil. When Obama was trying to blackmail President Buhari? Clown!

If you had referenced when Obama threatened to cut off aid money for the Ugandan police and health agencies if they did not drop the anti-gay law then you would have made little sense.

I dare say Obama only had the foresight of an oracle - the foresight to know that incidents like the Orlando gay bar shooting would be the corollaries to criminalizing homosexuality. FYI, the only reason he visited Nigeria was as regards the civil rights of the LGBT community that were flagrantly abused, he did not come to blackmail. And when he broached the topic of legalizing homosexuality to Buhari, it was refused, stomped out and never revisited. Stop dressing up facts.

But seriously, do you think the government has the right to decide what an individual decides to or not to do with his/her genitals.
It beats common sense you know.




Because the Zimbabwean government was guilty of ultra vires.

Washington: The United States on Thursday condemned Zimbabwe over raids on the offices of a gay rights group and urged authorities to end a "pattern of abuse" against civil society



Was the gay man a Nigerian or African? And how is what 'one homosexual' wants translates to shoving it down our throats? You're not still not making sense.



You're just listing instances when gay people wanted this or wanted that. It says nothing about shoving it down our throats. The gay people in question, were they Africans? And most importantly, did it happen on African soil?. Answer is no - it happened on American soil. American soil, American affairs, so how is that shoving it down our throats?



Look who was talking about brain-drain. I was only expatiating on my point by listing places where homosexuality had been patent. I never said that the Greeks were Negros...do I have to spell everything out?



Is this a rhetorical question or sarcasm?



Christian beliefs or religious precepts do not hold sway in modern politics, unless of course it is a theocratic system of government.

Section 10 of the 1999 Nigerian constitution as amended made it clear that: the federation or any state shall not adopt any religion as state religion.

Did you hear that? The state shall not adopt any religion as state religion(and that includes 'shall not criminalize acts simply because the Bible or Koran states that such acts are wrong')
[/s]

Anyone who can seriously pretend not to know how the US is trying to force other countries into accepting the gay lobby should not even be argued with - it's obvious you're one of the many nutters on here who live completely inside their own heads and are not in touch with the reality of the real world.

When you mentioned Greece and Rome, were you not responding to my quote about how homosexuality isn't a Negro construct?
Are Greece and Rome in Africa? So of what relevance is listing them owing to the statement that homosexuality isn't a Negro construct?

Abeg be gone, make I see road..

Acidosis:

Nigeria (Africa) where a bride's family still accept dowry and other associated perquisites.

You can continue to pretend and act like you have no understanding of my explanations. What I'm sure is that this singular thread will go a long way in depopulating the covens of misguided African feminists who want to collect dowry, yet attach the western ideology of name retention

But this has and is still practiced in some parts in Ghana. I cannot remember the names of the tribes now, but in those tribes in Ghana, the man takes up the woman's name. It's not necessarily a 'western ideology' as you put it.

HaneefahRN:



And here I am thinking using a surname and taking one's husband's name after marriage actually originated from the West.

Abeg is it compulsory to pay bride price ni? I'm tired of hearing all these cries about bride price

Yes, it is compulsory to pay bride price to a Nigerian family. It is our Culture.