Raytheon is a leader in Command, Control, Communications, Computers, Cyber, Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance (C5ISR) systems, combining sensors and advanced networks to create entirely new ways of perceiving the world.

The Command View integrated system places decision makers in a cyber-secure, common-computing environment where they can collect timely, critical information and act decisively to avert a crisis or rapidly respond to resolve an emergency. The benefits of Command View Mission Solutions include:
-Collaboration from strategic to tactical information sharing for achieving situation understanding
-Mobile applications support command on the move and continuous access to information (cela demande un réseau mobile high-bandwidth mais je ne sais si l'ANP en est la)
-Common Computing Environment integrates command, control, communications, computers and intelligence (C4I), enabling a common operating picture and simplify training efforts (avoir une CoP a tous les niveaux est souhaitable)
-Scalability of strategic and tactical solutions to meet any size requirement
-Planning-to-Execution capabilities for all Civil, Joint, Air Force, Army, and Maritime forces
-Synchronization applications enable military and civil operations on a cyber-secure network
-Multilingual applications enable translation for coalition operations and global emergencies
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Adelz:
Can I get you guys help on this topic; African standby force - prospect for regional security. I've got an assignment on it. cc bidexii, chkil, henry20, patches689, giles14, iblawi, LTGEN, africaken254, rka1, denusfidha, pacretus and everyone I forgot to mention

Henry240:


I'm so sorry i can't help out, however Frumentius knows quite a lot on the African Standby Force, he could help out.

patches689:


Nonsensical.

If France goes to war NATO goes as well. What-if's are irrelevant. Tailor making the engagement (only france! no NATO!) is fantasy.

Which is the reality of the world right now and is why what Mike is saying is correct.

But lets entertain your idea for a second... France has more Rafaels than Algeria has fighter aircraft. And that is excluding the 200 other Mirages that France has.

Second, France operates the Storm Shadow both for its Rafael and for its Navy, nearly 1000 of them. Storm shadow has a range of 500km (air) and 1000km (naval), best S300 missiles, the 40N6, has a range of 400km.

What does this mean?

France will allmost definitly achieve air-superiority and then proceed to shuttel-bomb Algerian air-defences from stand-off distances. Once their systems are degraded, they will then proceed to plaster Algerian ground formations into peices and then its just a matter of ground forces mopping up.

This is very rough and casual, but you get the idea right?

Henry240:


NATO did not go to war with France in Mali, only a select few countries provided logistical and ISR support to the French.


In the CAR, Nato did not also go to war with the French. Tailor making the argument was primarily what i said in my original response.


Any French war planner would have to consider the escalatory potential of any military action against Algeria.”


Bean Counting Makes Absolutely No Sense.

the idea of making tallies of the number of men, main battle
tanks, armored personnel carriers, infantry combat vehicles, combat aircraft, artillery pieces, bombers, missiles, surface ships, submarines, etc. presented by each side in a chart as you have done is irrelevant to reality.

The reality is that such bean counting means absolutely and
strictly nothing.


What part of the French military would be immediately available to the French commanders in case of a war with Algeria?

-b) On how many reinforcements could this force count and how soon could they get there? Keep in mind that tanks, bombers, soldiers and artillery do not fight separately – they fight together in what is logically called “combined arms” battles. So even if the French could get X number of soldiers to location A, if they don’t have all the other combined arms components to support them in combat they are just an easy target. Furthermore, any fighting force will require a major logistics/supply effort. It is all very well to get aircraft X to location A, but if its missiles, maintenance equipment and specialists are not there to help, they are useless.


Armored forces are notorious for expending a huge amount
of petroleum, oil and lubricants, will the Algerians allow the French to setup and launch attacks in Chad, Niger or Mali, it simply won't happen.


With mobile units of S-300, Panstir all incoming missiles would be effectively neutralised. The French simply cannot achieve air dominance over Algeria, as the number of Rafales doing flights to Algeria would be limited. So how are they going to achieve air superiority against an enemy fighting at home.

MikeCZA:
Airwaves battle.

Defence industry edge

Henry24o:


Airwaves battle is completely irrelevant when most Algerians are Nationalists.


Defence industry gives an edge, however it doest give victory. The Germans had the largest defence industry in world war II, that however, didn't stop a shellacking by the Russians.

jln115:

You mean a shellacking by the Russian winter!!

If Hitler just had the common sense not to attack Russia in winter it would've been bye bye USSR...also remember the Germans were fighting on multiple fronts and were still fvcking up the Russians before Winter hit!!

Henry24o:


Airwaves battle is completely irrelevant when most Algerians are Nationalists.


Defence industry gives an edge, however it doest give victory. The Germans had the largest defence industry in world war II, that however, didn't stop a shellacking by the Russians.

Henry24o:


The winter was a factor not the deciding factor. The siege on St.Petersburg proved how resilient the Russian defenders were. The battle of Khursk was also very significant.

frumentius:
Came across this paper by Andrew Glendinning. A long-ish read but well worth it.

A South African Heavy Gunship?

Saab’s JAS 39 Gripen, which in both the C and D variants, is the South African Air Force’s (SAAF) premier multirole jet fighter aircraft. But considering a hypothetical weaponised form of long-range, low-cost gunship is an interesting thought experiment away from the realm of hi-tech fighter jets. A heavy gunship is essentially a well-armed ground-attack aircraft. The only real example of such a concept is the United States Air Force, where weaponised variants of civilian aircraft fill valuable, niche roles. The gunship’s primary missions are close air support, air interdiction and armed reconnaissance. Other missions include perimeter and point defence; escort, landing, drop and extraction zone support; forward air control, limited command and control, and combat search and rescue. These heavily armed aircraft incorporate side-firing cannons integrated with sophisticated sensor, navigation and fire control systems to provide surgical firepower or area saturation fire during extended periods, at night and in adverse weather.

The gunship was proven during the Vietnam War, where Gen John Ryan, USAF Chief of Staff, noted that side-firing gunships are “one of the most successful developments arising from our experience in Southeast Asia.” Colonel Ron Terry, a former fighter pilot who led the charge in the early 1960s to develop the AC-47 and its successors, points out today that the gunships have been one of the most “effective things the United States has had for engagements in Panama, Grenada, and Afghanistan.”

The reason this particular concept is worth keeping in mind is that it is well within reach for the South African Air Force to create a local version of a heavy gunship. Denel for instance currently produces a low recoil 105 mm howitzer (known as the Light Experimental Ordinance [LEO]), a 30 mm cannon and a rapid fire 25 mm cannon. All of these weapons platforms could easily be integrated into a civilian aircraft of similar size as an AC47. As for fire control systems, there are a number of defence companies in South Africa which would almost certainly be able to provide the system with an integrated fire control unit, target acquisition capabilities as well as the necessary surveillance equipment needed for hypothetical mission use in the African battle-space. There are aircraft, which in the long-term, may be more than capable of assuming the role of a heavy gunship. One aircraft in particular, which came to light when the South African government cancelled its participation in the Airbus A400M programme, is the KC-390 aircraft under development by the Brazilian aerospace manufacturer Embraer.
This platform would be ideal, in that it is a large, modern jet powered transport aircraft, capable of lifting an estimated 21 tonnes. South Africa would also be likely to acquire KC-390’s from Brazil for the express purpose of converting them into heavy gunships, as South Africa and Brazil have enjoyed a highly fruitful relationship while jointly developing the 5th generation A-Darter air-to air missile. Therefore, it begs the question, assuming the conversion is indeed possible, what exactly would the SAAF be able to do with such a system, and what would be the benefits of possessing such significant airborne firepower? The answer is quite simple. The SAAF would be able to use a single type of aircraft to plug existing holes in its operational capabilities. For instance, with a similar electronic surveillance suit to a USAF equivalent, this includes advanced avionics, radar, high-resolution imaging systems, Forward Looking Infrared (FLIR) capabilities and magnetic anomaly detector (MAD). The MAD is a highly sensitive passive device with a phased-array antenna which could pick up localised deviations in earth’s magnetic field which is used to detect submerged submarines.

If all of these capabilities are included on the weaponised version of the KC 390, it could be used to fulfil the maritime recognisance gap which is a significant requirement for the SAAF at present. It could also be used in a variety of border patrol missions and to provide precise tactical firepower where ever needed, particularly to SANDF personnel deployed on peace keeping operations in Africa. It is this factor, the ability to provide long range heavy fire support to deployed infantry and mobile units, that has served the USAF so well over the years and would as such, be a useful future capability for the aircraft to undertake with the SAAF. It is the inherent flexibility of the system, from providing close air support to infantry, while also being able to hunt submarines, act as a long range airborne tank killer, and complete a variety of surveillance missions that makes this type of aircraft so attractive. It can also be used under certain circumstances as a platform for paratroopers and as a transport aircraft; however this may only be a limited possibility in emergency situations.

In addition the heavy gunship configuration of a KC-390 acting as a combat support aircraft may well outperform most of the SAAF’s existing platforms, including the Gripen, the Hawk or the Rooivalk. This is due to the fact that each of these three systems faces some severe limitations, in terms of operational range, the size of each aircraft’s armaments payload, and in the case of the Rooivalk, both speed and its operational ceiling. Take for instance the SAAF Gripen, the SAAF’s premier combat aircraft. Each aircraft has an effective range of around 800km, and with current budgetary and technical constraints, can only accommodate an ordinance payload of a few unguided bombs and the laser guided Paveway II bomb, a few hundred 27mm cannon shells, and Denel’s air-to-air missile, the A-Darter. From a brass-tacks perspective, the use of a weaponised KC 390 will yield benefits in munitions expenditure. For instance the SAAF Gripen carries the Paveway II laser guided bomb. Each Paveway II, weighs in at around 227 kg, and costs somewhere in the region of US$ 19,000. Whereas even the largest calibre ammunition the AC-130 carries, the 15.1 kg 105 mm shell, in its High Explosive configuration costs somewhere in the region of US$ 160. Therefore, each Paveway II buys the SAAF, 102 high explosive 105mm shells.

This is not to suggest that the weaponised KC-390 would replace the Gripens. However what it would do is to add a significant set of capabilities to the SAAF, which when used in combination with the Gripens and the Rooivalks would create a formidable airborne force. Of course it must be said that this is an interesting concept, and could, with a little foresight and the right sort of budgetary expansion provide the SAAF with a whole host of new capabilities. However it must be recognised that the viability of such a system would likely only be a reality in the next 20 years or so. In the meantime, there are far more pressing needs, and budgetary constraints that simply would not allow for the development of an entirely new combat platform, at this point. The concept of a heavy gunship for the SAAF has a variety of benefits, and obvious advantages over a variety of competing aircraft. It could also serve as a potentially significant export earner for the South African defence industry. However, it will likely remain an interesting concept to be considered by military planners, but ultimately unlikely to see the light of day until the SAAF sees a significant increase in its budget. ENDS


And now for my little contribution: Apart from the 105mm howitzer, 30mm & 25mm cannons, in the pics are some of the existing SA weapons systems we could include for a truly modular system.

N.B. Yes, yes I know about the jet engine...

pacretus:
@tsdarkside..it's not just about being handsome,that qualifies u for the contest.
Beside the contest just has only tomorrow left.
I promise to vote when u contest.

Please for now we really need ur vote tomorrow.
Vote for PHOTOSHOOT.

tsdarkside:

you understand bussiness...

chkil:
@thedarkside here the thread for military discussion and analyse

Hrmnn:
For almost four decades African militaries invested heavily in technicals and armored cars and APCs as opposed to tanks, presumably because tanks hadn't yet started to proliferate on the continent.

However, now there are many tanks in Africa.

Some countries which still use mostly armored cars like the Panhard AML over tanks include Burundi, Malawi, Chad, Burkina Faso, Benin, Niger, and Djibouti. Armored cars and heavily armed IFVs like the Ratel-90 and BMP series are still relevant on the continent because they pack enormous firepower without the price tag of a main battle tank, and just are capable of destroying one themselves, either with guns or missiles. As the Chadians proved in the Chadian-Libyan conflict and indeed the South Africans during their war with Angola, ergonomic wheeled vehicles are suitable for leaving a limited logistics footprint and requiring less maintenance while still carrying incredible heat.

I believe most African nations initially settled for armored cars and the like because they were suitable for internal missions and using a tank to hunt guerrillas is wasteful and expensive.

However, as the continent becomes locked in an increasing regional arms races and the number of tanks and very heavily armored IFVs start making their appearance this will likely change. Emphasis has been shifting to major, combined arms conventional warfare for the first time.

I noticed Uganda bought T-90s for instance. That is probably one of the most sophisticated MBTs in Africa right now and I have no idea how they were able to afford it, or afford the maintenance thereof.

But this is an interesting topic to consider as far as modern armored warfare in Africa goes.

jln115:

Firstly welcome to the thread/s Hermann(Im guessing !!

anyway back to the point, let me first get this of my chest, Ratel90s, Eland, Panhard AML, Rooikat ect ect are not and never will be anti-tank platforms and were never designed to replace Tanks. I've always said Tanks are becoming obsolete or even to an extent are already obsolete in the Southern African region, tracked vehicles are just not conducive to our environment and it was this reason why Ratel90s were able to take out several Angolan and Cuban tanks......BUT having said that, they never went out to actually hunt tanks.....Actually far from it!! God forbid the day a Ratel meets a T55 in a Temperate Rain-forests area like the DRC for example.....There will be no Ratel left!! Yet a RatelZT3 in a grassland region vs.......any tank in the world and its bye bye Tank!!

In a continent were the biggest threat most countries face is from irregular forces, i also find it strange that not more countries are investing in dedicated CION assets, Nigeria currently looks to be on the right path, but for the rest.....................

T90 is just a upgraded T72, and with so many African countries operating the T72, so i don't think mechanically maintaining the T90 is anymore expensive than the T72....electronically however is a different matter all together

Hrmnn:


Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I was speaking specifically about all the advanced electronics in the T-90, sorry if that was not being made clear.

I'm a little confused as to why Ratel90s never went out to hunt tanks, because if I'm remembering my SANDF history right they were organised into "anti-tank troops". Why would they call it an anti-tank troop or anti-tank platoon unless they were specifically used to kill tanks? Perhaps you can enlighten me on this.

Also, were the Rooikat and Eland ever deployed against T-55s? I wonder how they performed, would make for interesting reading.

Hrmnn:


Thanks for the welcome!

Yes, I was speaking specifically about all the advanced electronics in the T-90, sorry if that was not being made clear.

I'm a little confused as to why Ratel90s never went out to hunt tanks, because if I'm remembering my SANDF history right they were organised into "anti-tank troops". Why would they call it an anti-tank troop or anti-tank platoon unless they were specifically used to kill tanks? Perhaps you can enlighten me on this.

Also, were the Rooikat and Eland ever deployed against T-55s? I wonder how they performed, would make for interesting reading.

jln115:


Nope Ratel90s were never organized into "Anti-Tank Troops" ,RatelZT3s are the only Ratel Anti-Tank Platform, Ratel90s are for fire support!

Eland 90s were recce vehicles, and Rooikat76s were built to replace them.....So no they were never deployed against enemy T55 but have destroyed a few when they have accidentally met on the battlefield, but that's due to the skill of the crews and the terrain which is much better suited to wheeled vehicles......Interesting fact is that the 76mm Gun on the Rooikat is much more powerful than the 90mm on the Eland/Ratel90s!!

Hrmnn:


When did Eland 90s accidentally meet with T55s on the battlefield? Was it during Sceptic/Smokeshell?

ActivateKruger:


We don't buy from the US, we buy from the Europeans .... Eastern Bloc weapons are inferior, it's something we debated over and over again. But of course everyone will defend his own country's purchases.

chkil:



second: south africa is alone in the extrem south and don't have the strong army they should have for a country first economy of africa so nobody sees your army as a threat ( and you dn't have serious threat also) that's why you can buy western second categories weapons freely , if you were in the north near your western beloved NATO , like morocco , egypt you will need better and you will understand the geopolitics in weapon markets , the limitation and abusive control and also they will not give you the best quality ,

chkil:
well i have a lot to said about all what you said , but i don't want to enter this kind of discussion of " which has the biggest" specialy with my level of english . you need to check military capacity of countries like egypt , algeria before talking about night eclipse any country or most sophisticated ect....

for data link check just the first post in this page and there is others systems also in service