Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland
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Lets Analyze This Hadeeth / Stop Spreading This Alleged Hadeeth On The Social Media / Who Wrote Sahih Bukhari, Obviously Not Imam Al-bukhari? (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Nobody: 11:48am On Jul 29, 2016 |
Newnas: JazakAllah brother for this post, i couldn't have said it any better, I've really learnt alot from you. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 12:11pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
Newnas:Your post is better directed at the Qur'aniyun not me because you don't get it. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Newnas(m): 12:58pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
lexiconkabir: Aameen wa iyyaak bro, I've really gained a lot from you too |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Newnas(m): 1:00pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
Empiree: Thanks for the comparative adjective (better) because my post is GOOD for you, though I agree with you that it fits the Quraniyyoon BETTER! |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by usermane(m): 6:11pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
Newnas: This is not true. Your historical and Hadith texts claim that Qur'an was compiled by Uthman bin Affan. The manuscripts for Uthman's compilation were from Hafsah Bint Umar, the same manuscripts your historians report the first two Caliphs referenced. Citation here: [1] The first official collection of Hadith was by 85 years after the death of Muhammad during the reign of Umar II Your excuse for rejecting a narration is because you don't believe or think something like that could be possible. You are not the first disbeliever of your kind. Are you saying Muhammad cohabited with a 9 years old child? Are you demanding we accept pedophiles because Bukhari reported Muhammad commited pedophilia? See the following sahih hadith Sunan Abu Dawud - Book 1, Hadith 66 Do you think that a messenger of God will permit ablution with water contaminated by dead dogs or menstrual clothes? Do you think that water is not defilable? Allah has promised to protect the Quran and by implication, the sunnah also. Of course, the Lord protects His revelation. The question is, in what sense is the revelation protected? In paper and ink, memory of men? See Qur'an 22:52 & 53. I rest my case on this. As for the sunnah, it lack Quranic basis, there is no such thing as Sunnatul Nabi in the 114 chapters of the Qur'an. After arduous research on this matter, my only conclusion is that what you call 'Sunnah of Muhammad' are merely traditions of men, deceptively attributed to Muhammad. 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 7:20pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
ANOTHER TALE BY MOONLIGHT "SAHIH HADITH" FROM AL-BUKHARI'S SAHIH Imam al-Bukhari records this beautiful hadith in his Sahih: Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun: During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them. http://islamport.com/w/mtn/Web/3007/6501.htm What an hadith! 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Nobody: 7:50pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
^^ Misguided fellow calling others to misguidance. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 8:40pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
^ Better go search dictionary for more abusive words. Am not done yet. Mosesebere Ni faah  1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 8:48pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
^ Better go search dictionary for more abusive words. Am not done yet. Mosesebere Ni faah There is a guy in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, who has successfully challenged the Wahhabis there on many matters, including Sahih al-Bukhari, Mu'awiyah and Abu Hurayrah. His name is Sheik Farhan al-Maliky, an ex-Salafi. Here's his website: www.almaliky.org He believes Mu'awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan died a kafir. And he publicly says it in Saudi Arabia, including on their TV stations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSRD8lej4Zg This is a very old debate he had about the Sahabah on a Saudi Nasibi station, Wesal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA81D7RXF5U This is the second part of that debate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys3pqDMBdr8 And this is the last part. 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Rilwayne001: 8:56pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
AlBaqir: Lol |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 10:20pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
See Newnas, see what's going on and how are you going to defend these?. Now, the reason I mute is becus the way you started off with me. I was going to respond to hadith compilation earlier but thank goodness my man did. I deliberately ignored you because you took it upon yourself to compare your fellow muslims to Jews and you even made takfir. It is either your way or the high way. Now I agree with Userman's first part. Exactly what I was going to say. However, I digress a little bit becus me and usermane did converse on this before if you go through my profile. Imam Bukhari came after Sahaba which means he could not have compiled the Qur'an. When we say the same people who passed down the Quran to us are the same folks with hadith. This simply means chains. Quran was compiled long before Imam Bukhari(ra). I am not here to criticize the Imam. He did great works and may Allah have mercy on him. Ameena. As for the last part of usermane's, again, me and him have discussed that before. It is true that Qur'an doesnt necessarily says "Sunnatul Nabi" but Qur'an talks about following prophet's path. No doubt, the path is none other than Muhammad(saw). Sunna means path. Pay attention to terminology Mr. Usermane. These Quran verses talk about Following the prophet, following his path 3:31,3:32, 3:132, 4:13,4:59,4:64,4:69, 4:80, 5:92, 8:1,8:20, 8:46, 9:71, 24:52, 24:54, 24:56, 33:21, 33:33, 33:71, 47:33, 48:17, 59:7, 64:12. I only disagree with you (newnas) for saying Sahih hadith (everything recorded in it) it infallible. This is very unfortunate for you. Again, take a look at Baqir's post about stoning monkey. Me and him have discussed that last year months after the same hadith or the like was brought up by true2.god. Unless there are two ahadith relate to the hadith, the hadith is talking about a dream narrated by Sahaba. I researched it myself early last yr when the christian guy brought it up. The guy wanted to ridicule islam by saying how could Muhammad implement judgement of stoning on animal that committed "adultery". Fact is, Imam Bukhari categorized the hadith in the dream section. It is not actual event or incident. The hadith is much longer than what Albaqir quoted. Probably he quoted excerpt reported in another hadith. But I am 100% sure the hadith is longer than that and it is talking about dream. Second, the hadith has absolutely nothing to do with the prophet(saw). I clarified that to the guy last year and he shut it. I even feel bad for explaining this. I should have left you (newnas) to defend it first. You seem to think I am a fool with nonsense you posted earlier. Point i was trying to raise was any ahadith that speak about dua (that usually have to do with tassawuf), they are graded daif or fabricated and are placed in other than Sahih Bukhari. But ahadith that sound ridiculous are graded sahih. That was simply my point. But you took it to another level and i had to ignore you. 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Demmzy15(m): 10:58pm On Jul 29, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Yeeeiiii!!! He made this proclamations on Saudi TV and the wahabis didn't arrest or behead him? That's ironic!!!  |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Nobody: 7:15am On Jul 30, 2016 |
At this point, I would like to make somethings clear, for all I can do is explanation, i cannot force the misguided and confused to gain from the explanation, if he gains from it, Alhamdulillah and if it doesnt, Allaah knows best. The Saheeh of Imam Abu ‘Abd-Allaah Muhammad ibn Ismaa’eel al-Bukhaari is the soundest book of narration after the Book of Allaah. The scholars, muhaddithun (scholars of hadeeth) and huffaaz all bear witness to its high status in terms of authenticity and precision. This is not far-fetched, because al-Bukhaari is the great imam and hafidh to whose memory and precision all the muhaddithun bore witness. He used to ask Allaah for guidance (by praying istikhaarah) and pray two rak'ahs concerning every hadeeth he included in his book, until he completed it in this manner. Even though we are aware that there are some minor criticisms levelled at a few ahaadeeth that are recorded in Saheeh al-Bukhaari, we are certain that there is nothing wrong with applying the label of saheeh to all the ahaadeeth in the book, for the following reasons: 1.) Most of the scholars and muhaddithun think that Imam al-Bukhaari is in the right with regard to matters for which he was criticized. It is well known that it is not correct methodology to accept criticism just because it exists, rather it depends on evidence and proof. Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him), in his great book Fath al-Baari and especially in his introduction which is called Hadiy al-Saari, discussed the answers to these minor criticisms, and explained what is correct. 2.) The number of ahaadeeth in Saheeh al-Bukhaari, including repetitions – according to the numbering of Muhammad Fu’aad ‘Abd al-Baaqi (may Allaah have mercy on him) is 7563. When we realize that the number of criticisms is less than twenty, and that most of these criticisms have to do with matters concerning the isnaads, or whether the hadeeth reaches the highest level of saheeh, or they have to do with one or two words in a hadeeth, and that the criticisms which have to do with matters affecting the soundness of the matn (text) are rare and affect no more than one or two or three ahaadeeth – when we know all that, we realize that applying the label of saheeh to everything that is in al-Bukhaari, texts and isnaads, is correct and cannot be denied. Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: "The ummah is unanimously agreed that these two books are saheeh and it is obligatory to follow their ahaadeeth"{Tahdheeb al-Asma’ wa’l-Lughaat (1/73)} Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said: There is no book beneath the canopy of heaven that is more sound than al-Bukhaari and Muslim, after the Qur’aan. End quote. {Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (18/74).} Al-Haafidh Ibn Hajar said, answering criticism of Saheeh al-Bukhaari: [b]"The answer to that in general terms is: There is no doubt that al-Bukhaari and then Muslim are superior to the people of their own era and the imams of this branch of knowledge who came after them in finding out what is saheeh or sound and what is mu’allal or faulty. The scholars did not differ concerning the fact that ‘Ali ibn al-Madeeni was the most knowledgeable of his peers about ‘ilal al-hadeeth (faults of hadeeth) and that al-Bukhaari learned that from him. He used to say: I did not feel myself inferior to anyone except ‘Ali ibn al-Madeeni. Nevertheless, when ‘Ali ibn al-Madeeni heard about al-Bukhaati saying that he said: Ignore what he says, for he has never seen anyone like himself. Muhammad ibn Yahya al-Dhuhali was the most knowledgeable of his era about faults in the hadeeth of al-Zuhri, and both of the two shaykhs (i.e., al-Bukhaari and Muslim) learned that from him. Al-Farbari narrated that al-Bukhaari said: I did not include any hadeeth in al-Saheeh until after I prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah for guidance, and being certain of its soundness. Makki ibn ‘Abd-Allaah said: I heard Muslim ibn al-Hajjaaj say: I showed this book of mine to Abu Zur’ah al-Raazi and every report in which he indicated there was some fault in it, I omitted it. Once it is known and established that they did not narrate any hadeeth except those in which there were no faults, or in which there were faults but they did not damage the hadeeth in their view, then the view of the one who criticized them is to be understood as being opposed to what they determined was sound. Therefore there is no doubt that they have more knowledge than others concerning that, so this criticism carries little weight. This is in general. But with regard to the details of the matter, the ahaadeeth which have been criticized may be divided into categories: 1.) Those concerning which the narrators differed, adding or omitting names in the isnaad. If the author of al-Saheeh narrated it with a longer isnaad, and the critic criticized it on the basis of the shorter isnaad, then it is a criticism that is to be rejected. And if the author of al-Saheeh narrated it with the shorter isnaad and the critic criticized it on the basis of the longer isnaad, then his objection implies that there is an interruption in the isnaad of the hadeeth which is regarded as saheeh by the author [i.e., al-Bukhaari]. The answer on behalf of the author of al-Saheeh is that he narrated such reports because there are other, corroborating reports or other evidence for regarding it as strong, and for that reason the hadeeth is strengthened to the point of being saheeh. 2.) Where the reports differ in that the names of some men in the isnaad are changed. The answer to this is that just because there is a difference in some of the names of the isnaad it does not mean that this is proof of a fault, because mere differences do not mean that there is a problem which renders the hadeeth da’eef (weak). Therefore this argument should also be ignored. 3.) Where some narrators narrated additional material that is not present in the reports which were narrated by many narrators or where narrators who were known for greater precision did not narrate this additional material. This does not mean that the hadeeth is to be regarded as faulty unless the additional material contradicts it in such a way that it is too difficult to reconcile the two. But if it is not difficult to reconcile the additional material with the hadeeth then it does not mean that the hadeeth is to be regarded as faulty, unless there is strong evidence that the additional material that is narrated alongside the hadeeth is the words of one of the narrators. What comes under this category is something to be taken into account, as in hadeeth no. 34. 4.) What is narrated only by some narrators who are those who are classed as da’eef or weak. There is nothing of this type in al-Saheeh apart from two hadeeths, and it became clear that they both have corroborating evidence. 5.) Hadeeth in which some of the men of the isnaad are determined to have been confused. In some cases this confusion may damage the hadeeth and in other cases it does not. 6.) Cases where there are differences in the wording of the text. Most cases of this type do not lead to regarding the hadeeth as faulty, because it is possible to reconcile the differences, or determine which is more correct. But Daaraqutni and other imams did not examine this issue with regard to these two books as they discussed the issue of isnaads. What they did not examine in this regard includes: the hadeeth of Jaabir which tells the story of the camel; his hadeeth concerning the paying off of his father’s debt; the hadeeth of Raafi’ ibn Khudayj about al-mukhaabarah; the hadeeth of Abu Hurayrah concerning the story of Dhu’l-Yadayn; the hadeeth of Sahl ibn Sa’d concerning the story of the woman who offered herself in marriage to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him); the hadeeth of Anas about starting recitation of al-Faatihah with the words “al-hamdu Lillaahi Rabbi l-‘aalameen”; the hadeeth of Ibn ‘Abbaas about the case of the woman who asked about the vows of her mother and sister; and others. This is a summary of the categories of criticism levelled at al-Saheeh according to the imams. I have listed them, examined them, categorized them and explained them, and none of them undermine the basic matter of al-Saheeh, praise be to Allaah, except in a few rare cases."[/b] {Hadiy al-Saari (345-346)} The following part was gotten from https://islamqa.info/en/20153 al-Bukhaari did not narrate anything directly from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), rather he narrated from trustworthy shaykhs, who attained the highest degree of memorization, precision and trustworthiness, who in turn had narrated from equally reliable shaykhs, all the way back to the Sahaabah who narrated from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). The smallest number of narrators between al-Bukhaari and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) is three. So we rely upon Saheeh al-Bukhaari because he chose the narrators from whom he transmitted hadeeth with the utmost care, and they are the most trustworthy. Moreover, he would not write down any hadeeth in his Saheeh until he had done ghusl, then prayed two rak’ahs and prayed istikhaarah, asking Allaah to guide him with regard to writing down this hadeeth; then he would write it down. It took him sixteen years to write this book, which the ummah accepted and unanimously agreed that what is narrated in it is saheeh; and Allaah has protected this ummah from agreeing upon misguidance. Imam al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said in his introduction to Sharh Muslim (1/14): “The scholars (may Allaah have mercy on them) are agreed that the most sound of books after the Qur’aan are the two Saheehs of al-Bukhaari and Muslim, which were accepted by the ummah. The book of al-Bukhaari is the more sound and the more beneficial of the two.” May Allaah make this beneficial for whoever truly seeks guidance....Ameen. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by usermane(m): 7:25am On Jul 30, 2016 |
Empiree: These Quran verses talk about Following the prophet, In summary, all these verses states "Obey God & Obey the messenger" You believe that Obey God = Obey Qur'an & Obey the messenger = Obey Hadith books. This way, you mean obeying God is not necessarily same as obeying the messenger since the books of Hadith covers laws and doctrines absent in the Qur'an. Thus, to you, the messenger becomes a partner a with God, making decrees that may even abrogate God 's decrees. There is only one authority that legislates in monotheistic faiths; God, and he shares His authority with none. Hence, the reason why “obey the messenger” is mentioned after “obey God” is because the latter is a vague command. Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians and Pagans at the time of revelation through Muhammad all claimed to be obeying God(although they were actually obeying conjectures). To clarify what “obey God” imply, “obey the messenger” is mentioned. Thus, explaining that obedience to God is obedience to the messenger calling them, not the conjectures and man made doctrines attributed to God.
So where does Muhammad get his examples from? For him to be of exemplary character, where did he look for guides to conduct his affairs? Are you implying that a Muslim can't lead exemplary life with all the details from the Qur'an?
This deals with distribution of spoils of war. Not relevant to topic. 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Nobody: 7:44am On Jul 30, 2016 |
Comment on the first two parts of the debate between Ibrahim Al-Faris and Farhaan Al-maliki (Az-zindeeq); The main problem with the debate, in my opinion, is the lack of organization. Both participants are ignoring each other's questions and instead of responding, they are asking more questions to each other. Even the debate moderator made this clear. My personal problem with Hasan Al-Maliki is that he is not willing to answer where he takes his religion from. He doesn't say whether he accepts Al-Bukhari or Al-Kafi. He doesn't say how he treats hadith chains. He refers to himself as a "true Sunni" even though he attacks the Sahaba and makes takfeer of Mu'awiyyah and praises Al-Khomeini. He is also extremely biased when discussing hadith chains. He says in the debate that he makes tawtheeq of Nasr bin Muzahim even though there is an agreement among Ahlul Sunnah that the man is weak, and according to some, a liar. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 9:49am On Jul 30, 2016 |
Sahih Bukhari at it again Narrated Abu Salamah: Aisha's brother and I went to `Aisha and he asked her about the bath of the Prophet. She brought a pot containing about a Sa` of water and took a bath and poured it over her head and at that time there was a screen between her and us. Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 251 In-book reference : Book 5, Hadith 4 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 5, Hadith 251 http://sunnah.com/bukhari/5 What a crazy hadith! Umm al-mu'minin took shower in front of non-mahram (Abu salama). The hadith funnily says (وَبَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَهَا حِجَابٌ - there was a screen between her and us ). So, how did both viewer knew "...and (she) took a bath and poured it over her head."? Perhaps it was a transparent hijab (screen) between Umm al-mu'minin Aisha and those two men. Or were they looking at her naked shadow? Subhan'Allah. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Newnas(m): 11:26am On Jul 30, 2016 |
AlBaqir: In truth, you are the one who is crazy!!! # Tg lesson she wanted to teach them was that a saa' of water is enough for ghusl not the way to perform ghusl. So, the called for a saa of water and it sufficed her. It's not a must to see her before they learn this. # She is the mother of the believers just as you said, so, she is not like every other woman rather she and other mothers of the believers have unique honours which Allah has granted them 2 Likes 2 Shares |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 11:33am On Jul 30, 2016 |
usermane:You see highlighted part, that's your opinion. I am not really interested in this argument. But then, we already dealt with this. You have unfinished business where I asked you where is EXAMPLE, PRACTICES etc of Muhammad(P)? You admitted this had to be documented separately which is hadith. I hope you remember that?. You later left the thread. Qur'an is MANUAL and YOU are the example for your children. Your children would document or memorise what you do and instructions you give them. That is separate from the manual. Get my analogy?. It is impossible for 23yrs period not to have documented or memorized practices laid down by the prophet in separate sheets by eyewitnesses. So newnas is ONE EXTREME. You are ANOTHER EXTREME. Both can not be right. I leave you with this Miqdam ibn Ma’di reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “Verily, I have been given the Quran and something along with it, but the time is coming when a man will recline on his couch and say: Keep to the Quran, for whatever you find in it lawful is lawful and whatever you find in it unlawful is unlawful....." Source: Sunan Abu Dawud 4604 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 11:50am On Jul 30, 2016 |
author=lexiconkabir post=48016242Personally, I dont dispute this. Imam Bukhari was great Muslim and his works MUST be commended. However, what I am particularly concerned about is not just my own conclusion. Sheik Imram Hussein also raised same concern. Since inventions of computer and electronics, they have placed hadith on electronic devices in order to easily edit them. The Sheik raised this allegation few years ago. You may as well do some tough research on this, that sometimes if you compare certain ahadith copied from internet to hard-copy, you would see variations. In late 2014-15, we had some talks in tbaba's thread titled "Jinn Stories". During this period, i see clearly during my research where they skipped certain phrases from the hadith I was going to use. It was exactly like what they did to Bible where certain verse or verses are expunged. That is my point. Even tbaba said it might be mistake. So that's the point. But then, I also argued that most definitely the Jews in the early days most likely touched certain ahadith. This has nothing to do with istikhaarah made by Imam. I gave example earlier but neither you nor newnas respond to that. In the hadith where Jizya is said to be abolished by Jesus upon his return. That pretty much sound in the best interest of Jews and christian. It is very possible to have tampered with it becus the Jizya was for them. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 12:34pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
Newnas: Hey yah. Sorry! Brace yourself up o wallahi this is just the beginning in exposing sahih Bukhari.@underlined, Sa' of water ko, Sure of water Ni. If you have brain at all, you will see the questioners asked about the Ghusl of Nabi, and she practicalized it for them Narrated Abu Salamah: Aisha's brother and I went to `Aisha and he asked her about the bath of the Prophet. She brought a pot containing about a Sa` of water and took a bath and poured it over her head and at that time there was a screen between her and us. Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 251 Imagine that is one of such idiotic narrations tagged "Sahih (authentic)". # When we exposed 100 women vs 70 women vs 60 women in the same Bukhari, your sick brother said that is not important then I realized the extent of your chicken fanatical brain. May Allah open your eyes to reality. More are coming in sha Allah |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by usermane(m): 1:19pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
Empiree: Nope, not my opinion. If you grasp the concept of monotheism, you 'd easily see that taking any other entity beside God as source of religious or spiritual law negate La ilaha illa Allah. But then, we already dealt with this. You have unfinished business where I asked you where is EXAMPLE, PRACTICES etc of Muhammad(P)? You admitted this had to be documented separately which is hadith. I hope you remember that?. You later left the thread. Which thread? I have always maintained that Muhammad's examples were derived from the Qur'an. As the deliverer of the revelation, the onus is upon him to abide by the revelations, thus he becomes an example. The problem with the position that Hadith are necessary to follow Muhammad's example is that it downplays the significance of the Qur'an, implying that even the "Book of Allah" is not sufficient for one to lead an exemplary and pious life. Qur'an is MANUAL and YOU are the example for your children. Your children would document or memorise what you do and instructions you give them. That is separate from the manual. Get my analogy?. It is impossible for 23yrs period not to have documented or memorized practices laid down by the prophet in separate sheets by eyewitnesses. Great analogy. Usually, manuals are not often detailed, thus necessitating further instruction. But when we take account of the numerous verses describing Qur'an as "detailed", it is hard to see any need for seeking examples or instructions outside Quran So newnas is ONE EXTREME. You are ANOTHER EXTREME. Both can not be right. And you are in the middle, right? I have been with you here for 2 years, and even though my rejection of all Hadith may seem extreme to you, I do not believe that a Muslim's degree of accepting or rejecting Hadith is a measure of how extreme he is. Even though I reject Hadith as divine revelations, there are numerous Hadith whose matn am fine with. I condone Hadith that neither contradict nor add to the Qur'an as long as we realise that Hadith are mere hearsay. I leave you with this Fabricated Hadith and clearly a desperate attempt to pre-empt any rejection of Hadith. If Hadith fabrication was a fact, is it any surprising how far the fabricators of Hadith would go to cover their track? Please see this: Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 8, Number 446 : 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 1:42pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
HOW MANY AHADITH NARRATED BY ABU HURAIRAH ARE TRULY FROM THE PROPHET? Imam al-Bukhari documents Chapter: It is obligatory to spend for one's wife and household. باب وُجُوبِ النَّفَقَةِ عَلَى الأَهْلِ وَالْعِيَالِ Narrated Abu Huraira: "The Prophet (s) said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.' A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Messenger (s) ?" He said, "No, it is from Abu Hurairah's bag Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 5355 In-book reference : Book 69, Hadith 5 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 7, Book 64, Hadith 268 http://sunnah.com/bukhari/69/5 NB: Notice how he starts this “tradition” by saying, “_The Prophet ( ﺹ) said_,” then when they refuse to believe what he tells them, he admits by saying, “... _this one is from Abu Hurayra's pouch_!” Little wonder how Abu Hurairah who barely knew the Prophet (less than 3 years he accompanied with the Prophet) managed to report thousand of thousands (6000+) of ahadith while for example Ali ibn Abi Talib who accompanied the Prophet for more than 30 years was said to report less than 500 hadiths. NO WONDER PEOPLE OF HIS TIME USED TO SUSPECT HIM OF LYING Imam Muslim documents: Chapter: It Is Recommended To Put Shoes On The Right Foot First, And To Take Them Off From The Left Foot First, And It Is Disliked To Walk In One Shoe Abu Razin reported: Abu Hurayrah came to us, and he hit his forehead with his hand, and said, "YOU PEOPLE TALK, SAYING THAT I ATTRIBUTE LIES TO THE MESSENGER OF Allah*, peace be upon him, in order to guide you while I go astray. Verily, I testify that I heard the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, saying: 'When the thong of anyone of you is broken, he should not walk in the other one until he has repaired it (i.e. the damaged one).'" Reference : Sahih Muslim 2098 a In-book reference : Book 37, Hadith 112 USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 24, Hadith 5233 http://sunnah.com/muslim/37 This report shows us that the people of Abu Hurayrah's time used to accused him of fabricating hadiths on the tongue of the Prophet! Secondly, these people were his own followers! They accused him of forging hadiths FOR THE PURPOSE OF GUIDING THEM! Only his followers could have created such an excuse for him. |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 4:50pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
lexiconkabir: At a stage no one knows whether you are defending the infallibility of Imam Bukhari as a person or his alleged work "al-Jami sahih al-mukhtasar" popularly known as "sahih al-Bukhari". Note: # We are not debating Imam Bukhari as a person here. Whoever he truly was is between him and his Lord. # What we discuss is the authenticity of all the ahadith in his alleged Book. It is very unfortunate that even your scholars usually run away from the fact that Imam Bukhari is not the author of his alleged book we have today which amount to 9 volumes. Perhaps he's cursing many of you in his Barzakh for attributing many ahadith he knew nothing about into his alleged book we have today. Who compiled Sahih al-Bukhari? We have dealt with that here: https://www.nairaland.com/3108197/wrote-sahih-bukhari-obviously-not 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Newnas(m): 7:26pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
AlBaqir: You see AlBaqir you are continuously showing your ignorance and stubborn partisan misguidance, but you don't know. # Probably you are too busy reading your cursed shia books to know that there is something called mudraj in the science of hadith. Mudraj is a hadith that the statement of the reporter gets mixed up with the Prophet's statement alyhissolaat wassalaam. One major cause of mudraj is that the reporter is trying to explain the hadith to his listeners but wasn't careful enough to call their attention to the fact that he's explaining or the listener(s) were not attentive enough to differentiate between the two. This also happens in the school, when you your lecturer pauses his dictation to explain some point, some students also write the explanation thinking that it's part of the note. Sometimes, the students ask: "is it part of the note sir?" or the lecturer simply tells them not to write it because he's only explaining. Some people may ask how do the scholars of hadith know the difference? I say: One way is for the narrator to declare the idraaj as Abu Hurayrah has done here either after being asked or even without being asked. The other ways are too technical to explain here. So, the concluding part of the hadith is Abu Hurayrah's explanation. # The way you jump from one point to the other is just like a coward and clueless wannabe soldier running from one weak defense to another after being exposed by a formidable offense. 2 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 8:27pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
I think by now, your eyes should clear gradually base on your own posts usermane:This is some serious accusation but, yet, laughable. You can as well say Allah Himself joined the prophet(SAW) and even believers with HImself. There are many verses in the Qur'an like this, "Allah and His messanger..........." OR "Anyone who do good deeds for Allah and His messanger..." You so funny  Sura 9:105 is one example Which thread? I have always maintained that Muhammad's examples were derived from the Qur'an. As the deliverer of the revelation, the onus is upon him to abide by the revelations, thus he becomes an example. The problem with the position that Hadith are necessary to follow Muhammad's example is that it downplays the significance of the Qur'an, implying that even the "Book of Allah" is not sufficient for one to lead an exemplary and pious life.This thread. You said usermane: My response was Empiree: You said this afterward usermane: Then, I knocked you out with this Empiree: That was our last discussion on this a year and three months ago. That's why i said you have unfinished business with me. And I hope this is not gonna be extension of that Great analogy. Usually, manuals are not often detailed,Great! See how you shot yourself in the foot  thus necessitating further instruction.Now you are talking. That "instruction" was no one else than the man named Muhammad Ibn Abdullah, the messanger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Peace Be Upon him), his SUNNAH. His Sunnah or path is Allah's Path. Your eyes should be opened ALL THE WAY by now. You made it so easy for me and yourself unless you want to complicate the whole thing over. But when we take account of the numerous verses describing Qur'an as "detailed", it is hard to see any need for seeking examples or instructions outside QuranI see you genuinely confused by your statement. Nothing is hard if ONLY the messanger whom the Qur'an was revealed is the practical aspect of the theory or manual. Now, let me give you homework to do. Let's say a family member of yours passes away, you are the only one in the family they look up to as the most learned man of Islamic knowledge. They call you for burial procedure etc. How do you bury the dead using Qur'an alone Hint: the details are embedded in the prophet as example to follow. That's the detail And you are in the middle, right?By His Grace, am trying I have been with you here for 2 years, and even though my rejection of all Hadith may seem extreme to you, I do not believe that a Muslim's degree of accepting or rejecting Hadith is a measure of how extreme he is.That's why Quraniyun failed practically Islamically. Even though I reject Hadith as divine revelations, there are numerous Hadith whose matn am fine with. I condone Hadith that neither contradict nor add to the Qur'an as long as we realise that Hadith are mere hearsay.Oh well, i partially agree. This boredown to authenticity of it. Fabricated Hadith and clearly a desperate attempt to pre-empt any rejection of Hadith. If Hadith fabrication was a fact, is it any surprising how far the fabricators of Hadith would go to cover their track?This is just attempt to brush all of them off. How about Hadith Quds?. That's direct communication with God. My point is you do not have to accept some narrations like: "urine for medicine" "if your food drop on the floor pick it and eat it" "recite ayat Qursiy before you sleep" "Muhammad ordered men to fight" "He married 9 wives" "Dye your beard with henna" Etc These are mustahab. If you reject them there is no fault on you. What I am saying is you went too far by rejecting obligatory practices as practically demonstrated by the prophet(SAW) and there is no objection throughout Islamic history to that. These are Salat, Zakat, haj, saum etc . I mean how to practice them. This is where you failed. That's very dangerous. You're free to reject examples cited above. That has no impact on salvation |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Newnas(m): 9:28pm On Jul 30, 2016 |
People are just recycling the same crap they have posted before especially this heretic infidel calling himself AlBaqir |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Nobody: 11:00am On Jul 31, 2016 |
Newnas:Salam alaikum brother... the name calling is not necessary 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by usermane(m): 12:04pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
Empiree: Well, I still perform my rituals a little like how Hadith explains them. It just happen that : A. I don't believe that these rituals ought to be done precisely as the Hadith described. The absence of precise demonstration of these rituals by the Qur'an as in the Hadith spells that Islamic rituals are much flexible than we have been led to believe. Otherwise, the Qur'an would have incorporated every step of these rituals given the level of corruption destined for Hadith books. B. I understand that Muhammad didn't introduce these rituals. They were well recognized by Arab pagans and Jews well before Muhammad. As the Qur'an was revealed, it modified these rituals in the areas of importance. Thus, with or without Hadith, we can practice these rituals. C. Given that the Hadith on rituals are from the same documents as other Hadith with unholy content, it leaves the credibility of even these Hadith on rituals in question. As if this isn't bad enough, these Hadith on rituals sometimes contradict the Qur'an, casting further doubts on their authenticity. For instance, any recitation during salat is to be moderately loud according to Qur'an(17:110) and fast must be broken only at night(2:187). However, in contradiction, the Hadith on rituals demand some Salat recitation be done silently(always silently for women) and fast be broken as soon as sunset. This is sufficient and rational ground to dismiss even Hadith on rituals without coming across as an extremist. If these Hadith contradict Qur'an, how can we believe Muhammad relayed them even if all mainstream Muslims agree on them? 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by truthman2013: 2:05pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
Newnas: This guy though  |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by AlBaqir(m): 6:52pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
Sahih al-Bukhari And Scientific Discovery How can the following narrations be authentic by any standard? So, many lies attributed to the Prophet yet Salafiyah take these ahadith mechanically and fanatically. # Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: 'Ha', Satan will laugh at him." Sahih Bukhari 4:54:509 SCIENCE The most plausible explanation, and the one that is taught in medical school, is that we yawn because oxygen levels in our lungs are low. # Narrated Anas bin Malik: “The Prophet said, "Allah puts an angel in charge of the uterus and the angel says, 'O Lord, (it is) semen! O Lord, (it is now) a clot! O Lord, (it is now) a piece of flesh.' And then, if Allah wishes to complete its creation, the angel asks, 'O Lord, (will it be) a male or a female?” Sahih Bukhari 8:77:594, See also: Sahih Bukhari 4:55:550, and Sahih Muslim 33:6397 SCIENCE: The gender is determined at conception by the sperm. All women's eggs carry the x chromosome as all women have two x's. The sperm can be either male or female (x or y). The sex of the baby can be seen as early as 12-13 weeks with ultrasound. # Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "When you hear the crowing of cocks, ask for Allah's Blessings for (their crowing indicates that) they have seen an angel. And when you hear the braying of donkeys, seek Refuge with Allah from Satan for (their braying indicates) that they have seen a Satan." Sahih Bukhari 4:54:522, See also: Sahih Muslim 35:6581 SCIENCE: Cocks will crow if there is a disturbance within the coop or if they are alerted for danger. Donkeys bray as a form of communication. # Narrated Abu sa'id al-Khudri: The people asked the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him): Can we perform ablution out of the well of Buda'ah, which is a well into which menstrual clothes, dead dogs and stinking things were thrown? He replied: Water is pure and is not defiled by anything Sahih Muslim 1:66, See Also Sahih Muslim 1:67 SCIENCE: Water can be contaminated by toxins and bacteria which can be deadly. 1 Like |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 8:07pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
usermane: Bolded gives room for everyone to pray the way they deem fit. Imagine we all gather in masjid and some bending backward contrary to mainstream. Some would lie on their belling claiming they praying Salat too etc That's not coordinated. I gave you analogy earlier and I told you it is up to you if you choose to complicate this further. You have no valid excuse because the Sahaba were present and saw the prophet(saw) prayed. If Qur'an's descriptions of Salat is enough, ALL "Qur'anites" should be able to pray same way. But i can guarantee you if we gather 10 of you in separate rooms you would offer salat differently. Now do you pray as the guy in the video who is also 'Quranite' prayed?. I think he said he just prayed Asr. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQYPY-zNPlk&list=PL2_ZWCfH0mbp-U_infu75onssgynQY_o_ And how did you know Sura Fathia should begin salat?. What you missing is Following Qur'an is accompanied with Hukm (that is legislated in the hadith STEP by STEP). There is no hukm in the way he prayed. B. I understand that Muhammad didn't introduce these rituals. They were well recognized by Arab pagans and Jews well before Muhammad. As the Qur'an was revealed, it modified these rituals in the areas of importance. Thus, with or without Hadith, we can practice these rituals.Which ritual?. Be specific. Salat of course was recognized by them but HOW is the question here. C. Given that the Hadith on rituals are from the same documents as other Hadith with unholy content,I understand but this is rather irrational. If you request from 10 mainstream muslims how to pray salat academically, they would come up with same thing 99.99% of the time. You actually have done that 2 years ago. I was the last to write mine. I remember you said there is "striking resemblance" with others which is nothing but the truth. Case of Usul-e-Deen (Pillars of Religion) and Furu-e-Deen (Practices of Religion) are different. it leaves the credibility of even these Hadith on rituals in question.I sense your worries. It doesn't. Majority saw the prophet(p) because these are obligatory practices. He led them in Salat almost everyday. Majority cant go wrong. Even those who criticize hadith recently don't go far as you because they understand obligatory practices and learned enough to know there are different from hearsays. As if this isn't bad enough, these Hadith on rituals sometimes contradict the Qur'an, casting further doubts on their authenticity. For instance, any recitation during salat is to be moderately loud according to Qur'an(17:110)This has it context. Even the two afternoon Salat have theirs and they are totally unvoiced as proved by uninterrupted Sunnah. Again, i understand what you're trying to prove. Unfortunately, so long as you reject tafsir, history etc you may be having problems. You can't deny history or events or incidents leading to certain conditions. This issue you raised was directed at the prophet. It is normal to pray loud during salat unless otherwise stated. The prophet (p) was simply praying loud when the ayat were revealed. The ayat begin with declaration of the purity and Oneness of Allah. The revelations were based on events. The first one came to pass on a certain day when the prophet(p) during his supplication, said "Ya Allah" and "Ya Rahman". The Polytheists thought that he was calling two Gods. They said, 'he forbids us to call anyone else other than the One while he himself calls two deities. The answer to this comment was given in the first part of the verse by saying that the most exalted Allah does not have a mere two names. And all of them are best. Call Him any of these and it means the One and Only Allah. So, it was made clear to them. For the second incident, when the prophet(p) would recite Quran loudly during Salah, the Polytheists made fun of him and passed ridiculous remarks berating the Qur'an, the Angel and even God Himself. Response to that, the last part of the verse was revealed where he has been advised to take middle course btw the loud and the low, as the average voice took care of functional necessity. And as for the chance the Mushriks had to cause pain to them. Then, Muslims were not over a billion. They could all gather in masjid and hear the prophet pray. But now in a 5000sqt masjid without speaker is uncomfortable. You are free to recite in low voice at your own pace. But when you are in Jama'ah or congregation, you have no choice but to follow Imam. You are not the one even leading. And of-course if I am praying alone in my own home, my voice is neither loud not low when I'm offering either fajr, Maghrib or Isha. So what's the fuse? So Imam should be able to recite in salat in a voice not too high and not too low so that congregation behind him can hear. In prayer with voiced recitation, included Fard of Maghrib, Isha and Fajr, as well as the prayer of Tahajjud as in a hadith which says: Once the prophet(passed by Abu Bakr and Umar(RTA) at the time of Tahajjud, Abu Bakr was reciting in a lowered voice. The prophet(p) said to Abu Bakr, 'why would you recite in such a lowered voice?' Sayyidina Abu Bakr(ra) said, 'the One I wanted to talk to in secret, Him I have made to hear, becus Allah ta'ala hears every voice, even the lowest of the low.' The prophet(p) said, 'recite somewhat loudly.'. Then he said to Umar(ra), 'why would you recite in such a loud voice?', Sayyidina Umar(ra) said, ' I recite loudly to wake up the drowsy, and satan,' He(saw) ordered him too, "you should recite in a voice somewhat lowered.' (Tirmidhi quoted in Mazhari). This is also explained in Sura al-A'raf under ayah 55, volume lll commentary). See if you can look for it. and fast must be broken only at night(2:187). However, in contradiction, the Hadith on rituals demand some Salat recitation be done silently(always silently for women) and fast be broken as soon as sunset.This is simple. Your problem is "LAIL". I know. I think the ayah is crystal clear enough. "It has been made permissible for you the night preceding fasting to go to your wives [for sexual relations]. They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them. Allah knows that you used to deceive yourselves, so He accepted your repentance and forgave you. So now, have relations with them and seek that which Allah has decreed for you. And eat and drink until the white thread of dawn becomes distinct to you from the black thread [of night]. Then complete the fast until the sunset. And do not have relations with them as long as you are staying for worship in the mosques. These are the limits [set by] Allah , so do not approach them. Thus does Allah make clear His ordinances to the people that they may become righteous." Sunset is the beginning of the night. We know from hadith that LAIL is divided into three or more. We are told our prayer is most answerable THE THIRD PART OF THE NIGHT. How about the other two NIGHTS preceding it?. Even if you live in a city and you drive they recognize LAIL or NIGHT after sunset. That's why parking is free and parking meter is locked after that. As for women, well, that's figh issue and it is not mandatory. Matter of fact women pray aloud in single prayer. I think the reason for women to silent in prayer is to avoid distraction for men. Yes, their voice can cause distraction in the heart of men. Them voice can be sex!y for real. You would also probably question why should women stand behind men in salah as well?. The reason for that is pretty much the same DISTRAction. Imagine they put women in front. I dont think usermane would concentrate anymore. You be looking their behind and your salah gets K-LEG if you can finish it in peace. Now this is not necessarily Divine but has a very STRONG reason behind it. Plus i every matter, including modern Western civilization men are known to lead. First time in US history, a woman won presidential nomination and perhaps, may lead the country. What happened all these yrs since their over 200yrs of independence?. It was all men. Which means they recognized superiority of men at some point. This is sufficient and rational ground to dismiss even Hadith on rituals without coming across as an extremist. If these Hadith contradict Qur'an, how can we believe Muhammad relayed them even if all mainstream Muslims agree on them?Again, this bore down to analogy i gave you. If you have children now you definitely have things to tell them and they would narrate what you said differently in yrs to come. Differences in their narrations does not negate the fact that you told them stories. Hope you reason well |
| Re: Are These Hadeeth Sahih ? by Empiree: 8:26pm On Jul 31, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Honestly, i probably have problems with just one or two ahadith here. I dont think the rest of ahadith are wrong. "Science" itself is KNOWLEDGE bestowed by Allah. It ONLY sees what it sees. SCIENCE/ SCIENTISTS can not see the unseen. We know from islamic perspective that all creations, living and nonliving things glorify Allah daily. SCIENCE dont read the trees bending as glorification of Allah. They ONLY see trees bend. Yes, crow, donkey etc can see Angels or evil spirit. SCIENCE can't. And most human can't either. The smallest of all creations, ants that we can barely see also glorify Allah but we human have no idea how. So SCIENCE can not pick that either. I am telling you this from epistemology dimension of islamic knowledge. But I dont want to get involve btw you and newnas bcus he is the one that needs to defend whatever ahadith you quoted bcus he said Sahih Bukhari is 100%. He's literal but I am all literal, methodological, symbolical and metaphorical. Newnas knowledge is limited to literalism. Let him come and defend himself. So my point is NOT every hadith you posted, that i just quoted is false, sir. And finally, YES, Yawing is from Shaitan. That's from spiritual dimension. Even scientific "evidence" you quoted is 50/50 chance. They aren't sure from the way the statement is worded. |
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