KingEbukasBlog:
Some people are predestined to make heaven but no one is predestined for hell . The truth is not everyone has free will . Some people must follow a particular course for God's divine purpose . That' s my opinion . Objections are welcomed though .

4kings:

Why do u say some people are not predestined for hell?

KingEbukasBlog:


It is not biblical and God would not create someone just to go to hell .

2 Peter 3:9
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

4kings:

You said some must follow a course.
Acts 10:34 says God is no respecter of persons
Paul also said the same thing, 'including himself', also in romans 12:3

KingEbukasBlog:


Bro , these verses are not germane . Or better still elucidate pls

4kings:

Paul(who I suppose would be your example for those who must follow a course), said to the congregation that the same grace given unto them was also given to him, so that no man will think highly of himself. You still don't see my point?

He also talked about the same thing in 1cor15:9&10, that he laboured more abundantly than the disciples, to have reached his feat [not predestination]. Do u get me now?

KingEbukasBlog:


Yup . Then he was talking of the "normal" people

4kings:

What do u mean by "normal", I just quoted verses, where he "included himself".

sunkoye:
men are allowed to take mild decisions which are greatly influenced by lesser powers but the major decision are made by the powers that be. So men technically are highly controlled. It's only God dat can predestined who is the ultimate power.

4kings:
@kilo4sure you said:
There is a form of freewill for all to believe but ultimately no one can believe if God does not choose to teach him to believe. -----what do u mean by "form of freewill to believe".

God himself who made all men, knows what he has made them for, he knows why he may not draw a man to Jesus in this age, for his ways are past finding out, however we must continue to preach for we do not know whom God wants to add to the church. ------- Going by this; how would u differentiate freewill from illusion, what if the preacher was supposed to? & if u disagree on the subject of illusion, why then do u 'consider' the possibility that God might not draw a man to Jesus.

Uyi168:
The concept of predestination invalidates the concept of freewill wch the the main-stream christianity preaches...or is it possible for one to be predestined and stil have freewill?

honourhim:


Freewill is not absolute. It still has limits. May be some people are predestined while others are not.

Uyi168:
..How can that be...?some persons predestined,others having freewill..nt making enouqh sense bro..

The summary is that some have been chosen as elects to do the work of God, this does not make them special, but it means much is required of them, not all are equal. God cannot call everybody but God wants everybody to come to him. The reason God wants men to continually seek after righteousness is this... If we do the right things even without knowing God or Jesus, just like Cornelius we continually pull ourselves to the spirit of God who unknown to us, begins to minister to our hearts and draws us to Jesus. We then receive the Holy spirit to do the work of God.
However some may not go through this process before they believe, some may even believe for selfish reasons, they all have their freewill to do that, but those who have been chosen by God or predestined especially during the time of Jesus among the Jews he preached to, did not just believe because of freewill only, but because they have been called out. Predestination focuses on the elect. God himself taught these people to believe, because they have work to do.However there are some who were not called, but who just beleive, God also has his way of using these people. So either away the right belief even from our freewill is not an illusion, but no one could have truly believed so as to do mighty works e.g the apostles, Cornelius, Paul, etc without having been called out by God from the foundation of the world. I believe that God has a way of drawing the world to Jesus, but some have been called out ahead to do serious work.

honourhim:
Hello brethren, kindly give your views on predestination as recorded in the scriptures quoted below for more understanding to the readers here(including myself).

[b]Romans 8;28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified


Also

Ephesians 1;4-6, and 10-12.

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
[/b]

Does the above scripture imply that those who are born again now and those who will be born again in future are predestined for it? Which means those who are not predestined to be born again will never be no matter what? And those who are predestined to be born again will be no matter what? Kindly contribute for more understanding. Thanks.


N.B. Pls note that this thread is not intended to mock God. He is the creator and whatever he want cannot be questioned. I.e. assuming what i think about the above scripture is actually what it means.

KingEbukasBlog:


I mean people who are not predestined to make heaven .

honourhim:


You didn't comment. What's your view about this subject?

4kings:

I suppose Moses will be one of the example of those who must follow a course. Right?
If so, his original course was obviously to lead the children of Israelites to the promise land, but well, that didn't happen because God got angry of his action(freewill I suppose).

My question also to kilo4sure, is do this people who have been called out to do serious work, also have the luxury of freewill even during their course. Clearly, Moses did what God did not want him to do, he also advised God not to destroy the Israelites(the focus of Yahweh's purpose ).
If your answer is yes, then chances are, moses could have abandoned the Israelites, Paul could have backslided out of arrogance, Jesus could have given up(the cup) cos of pain and fear, and so on. Right?
If not, properly explain the case of Moses.

4kings:
@oaroloye
If God is not omniscience, then how do u explain the prophecy of the fate of Abraham's generation declared in Gen15:13.
Also can u pls expatiate a little more on God's limitations and those levels.

kilo4sure:

Brilliant question, l do not know for a fact if they had the freewill to turn away from God's purpose, but from what l can deduce from the scriptures, l would say this is very possible. To an extent l still feel that Yahweh has been disappointed with many whom he has chosen and given gifts because in the end they made choices that were detrimental to divine purpose. Many of the chosen still do not live up to their full potential. For example God chose Jacob even before he was born, but the decision to cheat his brother was definitely from Jacob himself. Esau who was not as blessed as Jacob became more wealthy than Jacob by his freewill even his descendants for many years were quite successful and produced wise men. So even in predestination, l would say the elect can choose to be deceived or abandon purpose, this would not thwart God's plan because he can even replace them.

kilo4sure:

I do not agree with all of oaroloye's point but to an extent his view on Yahweh is not far fetched.
For example in Genesis 18v21, the lord has heard so much about Sodom and Gommorah, and he has come to verify himself.
Another example is when he states that isrealite's burning of their children, is something that has never even crossed his mind. However this doesn't nullify the fact that God chooses some not because they are special in any way but to do some work e.g Jeremiah who was ordained before he was born, as well as Paul, this people suffered a lot, and who knows? Some of them did not even live out half their potential to God's disappointment. However oaroloye is right that God has prepared a certain glory for those who persevere till the end. This glory is also from the foundation of the world.