hensben:
oscar has not be deceiving, his undo is his strength/physique in a more intensed opponent. we all know pre season is played with less intense and oscar position is always threatened so he had to play to his best in pre seaon were opponent are not serious and that make him to be the best thing after slice bread in coach's eyes.

If you think Oscar in the team on preseason form, then you should ask yourself why RLC and especially Aina are not yet starters. Chalobah too.

Oscar is a tactical inclusion. That injection of pace and tactical discipline he brings is not easily replicated in our squad. The only other guy who offers that is Kante and he has a different job to do.

elrony:


I don tire for you!!!.. your amoebic approach to simple questions makes me wonder if you lack comprehensibility,or you just pretending to! (No offence).

For clarity;
You said Neymar and Hazard shouldn't be compared (on the better player)until they play in the same league. Which is quite absurd!

In that same context to make you see the light,I then asked you a simple question;
Does Messi have to play in the EPL, before we can say he's better than all the EPL forwards?

Crystal!!

So feel free to answer "Yes" or "No". That's all!!...

If you hell bent on flipping, forget it!

And I am saying you're asking me a foolish question. No offense. Is there any player better than messi in football world but there are players better than Neymar so his talent is still debatable.
Football is not mathematics that 1+1 is 2, there are some factors that have to be consider when analyzing players. Messi will do excellently well in epl except his 40+ goals per season in la Liga will not happen in epl.

hensben:
Youre off point again. I can see your psyche has been dealt with this afternoon. You're trying hard to bring barca into this. You guys are the ones mentioning messi and I am of the opinion that messi will do excellently well in epl except scoring 40+ goals in a season and I believe a sensible football follower will agree with me on that.

You are making things very difficult for yourself

Messi will do excellently well in the EPL but Neymar who finished 3rd behind messi won't? Well done

Neymar is not better than hazard until he plays in the epl with hazard but messi is better than hazard and doesn't have to play in the epl to prove it. well done

"Mkhitaryan = 41 goals and 49 assists in 140 games for Dortmund = 0.64 goal contribution per game.

Hazrad = 56 goals and 55 assists in 208 games for Chelsea = 0.53 goal contribution per game.

Mkhitaryan no penalties for Dortmund, Hazard 16 penalties for Chelsea.

Normalising for penalties, Hazard = 40 goals and 55 assists in 208 Chelsea games = 0.46 goal contribution per game.

Over a 52 game per season average that Hazard has played at Chelsea, that is an extra 10 goal a season contribution from Mkhitaryan."

Hazard is still better than mkhitaryan in terms of contributions, okay explain, I never hear from you since then


You see all the rubbish you've been saying since morning? No offence

Funlordjnr:





Yes ukraine! He played for "shaktar donetsk" (a top ukrainian club) for 3 years before joining dortmund in 2013!

ok, is ukraine league that competitive?

Nihilist:


If you think Oscar in the team on preseason form, then you should ask yourself why RLC and especially Aina are not yet starters. Chalobah too.

Oscar is a tactical inclusion. That injection of pace and tactical discipline he brings is not easily replicated in our squad. The only other guy who offers that is Kante and he has a different job to do.

I understand your point bro and I am with you on that. Ibime is not understanding your point about oscar. He wants to see that AMF with stats, either by goals or assist like lampard or iniesta and you're saying though he's not that but he's useful in other area that gives the team in midfield more balance compare to matic at the moment which is true.

hensben:
And I am saying you're asking me a foolish question. No offense. Is there any player better than messi in football world but there are players better than Neymar so his talent is still debatable.
Football is not mathematics that 1+1 is 2, there are some factors that have to be consider when analyzing players. Messi will do excellently well in epl except his 40+ goals per season in la Liga will not happen in epl.

Very good

Currently there's no player better than messi because he's the holder of the ballon d'or, messi is the only player better than ronaldo because he came second behind him, messi and ronaldo are the only players better than Neymar cause he came third behind them

The next ballon d'or will go to ronaldo certainly and then he'll be the best player in the world with messi coming second and whoever third


Ballon d'or- world best

dopeJemi:


You are making things very difficult for yourself

Messi will do excellently well in the EPL but Neymar who finished 3rd behind messi won't? Well done

Neymar is not better than hazard until he plays in the epl with hazard but messi is better than hazard and doesn't have to play in the epl to prove it. well done

"Mkhitaryan = 41 goals and 49 assists in 140 games for Dortmund = 0.64 goal contribution per game.

Hazrad = 56 goals and 55 assists in 208 games for Chelsea = 0.53 goal contribution per game.

Mkhitaryan no penalties for Dortmund, Hazard 16 penalties for Chelsea.

Normalising for penalties, Hazard = 40 goals and 55 assists in 208 Chelsea games = 0.46 goal contribution per game.

Over a 52 game per season average that Hazard has played at Chelsea, that is an extra 10 goal a season contribution from Mkhitaryan."

Hazard is still better than mkhitaryan in terms of contributions, okay explain, I never hear from you since then


You see all the rubbish you've been saying since morning? No offence

Finish third to someone that has five balon de or? Abeg go rest your head. You not get talk. Repeating same line in every post.

hensben:
I understand your point bro and I am with you on that. Ibime is [size=28pt]deliberately[/size] not understanding your point about oscar. He wants to see that AMF with stats, either by goals or assist like lampard or iniesta and you're saying though he's not that but he's useful in other area that gives the team in midfield more balance compare to matic at the moment which is true.

FTFY

Obviously, Matic is Ibime's champion. He has given every excuse under the sun to deny the fact that Matic has been crap...from blaming Fabregas to Fatigue to Mourinho.

Now we're trying to talk about Matic again, and he's quickly deflecting to Oscar AND quite ridiculously, Sterling too!

Matic is the worst player in our midfield using any relevant metric, yet he's complaint about oscar.

Chestar5:


ok, is ukraine league that competitive?

They wish!




They are usually quite competitive when they get to the champions and europa leagues though and have even won the europa league cup before! Usually very stubborn, play good football and also produce good players!



Even one of your current key players came from there!......... WILLIAN

hensben:
Finish third to someone that has five balon de or? Abeg go rest your head. You not get talk. Repeating same line in every post.

You've tied yourself again

Neymar finishing 3rd behind a five time ballon d'or winner is an achievement on it's own, something hazard will never achieve until he dies

Finishing third and second behind the world's best player makes you the closest to that player in terms of what that player does

You must be very good to be amongst the top 3 in the world, top 3 that has messi and ronaldo in it

Your heat is getting cold, bring more heat so I won't be able to stand it

dopeJemi:


Very good

Currently there's no player better than messi because he's the holder of the ballon d'or, messi is the only player better than ronaldo because he came second behind him, messi and ronaldo are the only players better than Neymar cause he came third behind them

The next ballon d'or will go to ronaldo certainly and then he'll be the best player in the world with messi coming second and whoever third


Ballon d'or- world best

youre the one always bringing up individual stats and award to justify messi's talent and I am trying to let you know messi is a genius on the field of play. I.e,he can do everything on the field of play as an attacker. How many third position does Neymar has that you're mentioning his name with cr7 and messi, That aside, messi is very firm with the ball and has a never give up attitude when with the ball unlike Neymar that falls to the ground at any slight touch, and you think he can withstand epl with those antics. I laugh. If depay nor come epl you for dey count am among top 4 best wingers in the world by now while in holland league scoring for fun.

SMH! Some things will never change

Nihilist:


Actually Oscar and Matic are both playing in central midfield this season. The statisticsame show that Oscar has had more defensive contribution than Matic, more offensive contribution than Matic, more anything than Matic.

The question here is why Matic deserves to start ahead of Fabregas. That's what I'm asking you sir.

All your other yarns are deflections. Matic was not playing DM when he came to Chelsea, and Oscar was playing right wing, so leave the natural yarns to discussion on farmland bro.

Bros, #leaaaaaveityeaaaaaaah

I would be very stewpid to be discussing nonsense about Matic and Oscar with you.

I know Oscar's flopping is biting you yet again this year.

For one, I don't discuss no of tackles made because that is a foolish metric that depends on style of play. Makelele made very few tackles, but preferred shepherding players into cul-de-sacs.

For two, my loyalty is not misplaced. What do I look like discussing nonsense about tackles made and key passes of a 4 year flop against Matic? It's like me arguing stats about how Lampard played in a particular game vs Mikel. I am not an eediot.

Take note of the man in midfield in the picture below. My loyalty is not misplaced. I would rather compare Isaac Semitoje to Uche Okechukwu before comparing Oscar to Matic.

Funlordjnr:




They wish!




They are usually quite competitive when they get to the champions and europa leagues though and have even won the europa league cup before! Usually very stubborn, play good football and also produce good players!



Even one of your current key players came from there!......... WILLIAN

oh thats true...
I have never watched d league bfore, its as if sharktar donestk is d most popular.....

dopeJemi:


You've tied yourself again

Neymar finishing 3rd behind a five time ballon d'or winner is an achievement on it's own, something hazard will never achieve until he dies

Finishing third and second behind the world's best player makes you the closest to that player in terms of what that player does

You must be very good to be amongst the top 3 in the world, top 3 that has messi and ronaldo in it

Your heat is getting cold, bring more heat so I won't be able to stand it

neymar to messi then Neymar to hazard.
I tell you just now go relax your brain
I know you manure fan are still pain since hazard rejected your club for Chelsea. Mkhitaryan is the fourth signings you have used to compare hazard and he has outshone them so far. Even in his worst season depay couldn't do jack. Lol

hensben:
youre the one always bringing up individual stats and award to justify messi's talent and I am trying to let you know messi is a genius on the field of play. I.e,he can do everything on the field of play as an attacker. How many third position does Neymar has that you're mentioning his name with cr7 and messi, That aside, messi is very firm with the ball and has a never give up attitude when with the ball unlike Neymar that falls to the ground at any slight touch, and you think he can withstand epl with those antics. I laugh. If depay nor come epl you for dey count am among top 4 best wingers in the world by now while in holland league scoring for fun.

Just check my last post before you say i'm repeating the same lines

hensben:
neymar to messi then Neymar to hazard.
I tell you just now go relax your brain

Hahahahahaha, that means hazard cannot be mentioned where Neymar's name is being called, they are not mates

Neymar- 3rd behind messi

Hazard- not even 15th behind neymar

Ibime:


.

Over a 52 game per season average that Hazard has played at Chelsea, that is an extra 10 goal a season contribution from Mkhitaryan.

This is a flawed way of looking at things considering majority of the goals he scored for Dortmund came in his last season. Add up his goals in the first 2 seasons and its not up to his best ever tally in a season as a pro footballer. So where is the consistency here?

Also considering the following
- He is 2 years older than Hazard
- He played in the Burnthisleagedown. The league that has shitty defences that ship in goals and always ranks as one of the highest scoring leagues at that time

I am not making excuses for Hazard but i feel he is at times being treated unfairly on these boards. Imagine o, He was barely 21 before he left Lille, but you expected him to outsocre Moussa Sow and Gervinho who were 5 and 4 years older than him at the time. Haba! Pa Ibime. .

hensben:
All those one na temporary stuff. There was a time Nigeria were 5th in the world.
Everybody know say Brazil fit pick anybody for street go World Cup. Brazil>>Belgium for football matters anytime any day.

Comparing Neymar and hazard is injustice to hazard when they play in different leagues and team.

You mean current Brazil is better than Belgium?

Name the top players in Brazil currently and name the ones in Belgium then compare

To me age doesn't matter, to sabi score goals no be by age

Rashford, martial, messi, ronaldo are testaments to that, ronaldo's first ballon d'or came at 23

Nihilist:


This is not Oscar defence at all.

As bad as Oscar is, he has been better than Matic.

What I'm asking is what Matic brings to the table.

Oscar been better than Matic is quite acceptable. are we now comparing a natural AM to a natural DM? if they both play the same position now, shouldn't Oscar be more probing with 'em defence slitting passes?

Oscar and Matic should just find the belt in the seat and use it.

Ibime:


Bros, #leaaaaaveityeaaaaaaah

I would be very stewpid to be discussing nonsense about Matic and Oscar with you.

I know Oscar's flopping is biting you yet again this year.

For one, I don't discuss no of tackles made because that is a foolish metric that depends on style of play. Makelele made very few tackles, but preferred shepherding players into cul-de-sacs.

For two, my loyalty is not misplaced. What do I look like discussing nonsense about tackles made and key passes of a 4 year flop against Matic? It's like me arguing stats about how Lampard played in a particular game vs Mikel. I am not an eediot.

Take note of the man in midfield in the picture below. My loyalty is not misplaced. I would rather compare Isaac Semitoje to Uche Okechukwu before comparing Oscar to Matic.

Except I am and have been talking about Matic wrt regards to what he brings to the team. You're the one who wants to keep comparing to Oscar.

To reiterate, Oscar and Kante have made more defensive contributions to the team so far than Matic. Oscar and Kante have also made more offensive contributions to the team than Matic. Why should Fabregas not bench Matic?

Instead of answering this simple question, you are forming lethal bizzle.

kontinu.

lalaboi:


This is a flawed way of looking at things considering majority of the goals he scored for Dortmund came in his last season. Add up his goals in the first 2 seasons and its not up to his best ever tally in a season as a pro footballer. So where is the consistency here?

Also considering the following
- He is 2 years older than Hazard
- He played in the Burnthisleagedown. The league that has shitty defences that ship in goals and always ranks as one of the highest scoring leagues at that time

I am not making excuses for Hazard but i feel he is at times being treated unfairly on these boards. Imagine o, He was barely 21 before he left Lille, but you expected him to outsocre Moussa Sow and Gervinho who were 5 and 4 years older than him at the time. Haba! Pa Ibime. .

Both of us should not be too far in age, unless you were 12 years old when you joined Nairaland.

10 years goal difference average per season is very significant. That means on average he would have 40 more goals contribution that Hazard in the 4 years he has been at Chelsea.

Mkhitaryan's 2nd year was when Dortmund went through the slump similar to Chelsea's last season. We cannot leave Hazard's last season out and include Mkhitaryan's 2015.

The fact is that anyone that tries to create a comparison between Mkhitaryan and Hazard based on goal contribution is making a rod for his own back.

dopeJemi:


Hahahahahaha, that means hazard cannot be mentioned where Neymar's name is being called, they are not mates

Neymar- 3rd behind messi

Hazard- not even 15th behind hazard

mind you, I am not comparing them because they play in different league, you're the one doing that. Else, you will agree with me that lampard is a better footballer than iniesta due to individual stats and both are AMF. You should know by now that Neymar is a LWF/striker in 4-3-3 formation while hazard is a LMF/winger in 4-2-3-1 formation.

hensben:
neymar to messi then Neymar to hazard.
I tell you just now go relax your brain
I know you manure fan are still pain since hazard rejected your club for Chelsea. Mkhitaryan is the fourth signings you have used to compare hazard and he has outshone them so far. Even in his worst season depay couldn't do jack. Lol

Depay's worst season- 7 goals

Hazard's worst season- 3 goals

Just saying, na you bring depay and last season come the matter just now

Nihilist:
Herd mentality is a bad thing.
If we analyse the Chelsea midfield three objectively, the person who shouldn't be in the team is Matic.
Oscar isn't the most creative player on the team, but he injects energy into the middle as he runs from box to box. Kante is the defensive lynchpin of the side. What does Matic do? He creates fewer chances than the more defensive Kante. He makes fewer interceptions and tackles than the more attacking Oscar.
But nobody is questioning that, because visionless Oscar must somehow be blamed sha.Once we've found our scapegoat, we stick to it like glue.
Fab is being benched by Matic not Oscar. That's just a simple fact.

When I called out Matic here last season some people started throwing fits. Now people are seeing what the Serbia Olofinjana is all about

Its not about having the build of Viera but the skills of Furo Iyemeni

Skimpledawg:

Oscar been better than Matic is quite acceptable. are we now comparing a natural AM to a natural DM?
Oscar and Matic should just find the belt in the seat and use it.

Who is a natural AM, who is the natural DM here? You might need to go and check both players histroric positions, and you may be unpleasantly surprised.

if they both play the same position now, shouldn't Oscar be more probing with 'em defence slitting passes?

The problem is that you don't seem to understand tactics. One player must step up from the midfield to the attack in transition. If the creative player is at #10, then someone from the pivot will step up e.g Ramsey/Cazorla at Arsenal, Yaya Toure(even Sagna now) at City. Fellaini(and now Pogba) at United.

If the creative player is playing in central midfield(as part of a 3) or the pivot(As part of a 2) then another player from the 3(in the former) e.g Oscar or or the #10(in the latter) e.g Firmino in the latter will step up to attack.

I've always said that people need to manage their expectations. Not everybody that plays in number 10 is a creative type. Oscar is not a creator.

Anyway the question here is, if Oscar is not the creator in the team, and kante is the DM, what is Matic's job?

dopeJemi:


Depay's worst season- 7 goals

Hazard's worst season- 3 goals

Just saying, na you bring depay and last season come the matter just now

al these cr7 and messi fan era. Lol.Smh. Last season was depay, the season before depay was di Maria and the season before di Maria was kagawa. Hazard effectiveness to his team is unquestionable even in his worst form can same be said of depay last season.

Nihilist:


Except I am and have been talking about Matic wrt regards to what he brings to the team. You're the one who wants to keep comparing to Oscar.

To reiterate, Oscar and Kante have made more defensive contributions to the team so far than Matic. Oscar and Kante have also made more offensive contributions to the team than Matic. Why should Fabregas not bench Matic?

Instead of answering this simple question, you are forming lethal bizzle.

kontinu.

You're the one trying to compare them by bringing tackling stats and all that.

For that to happen, you first have to believe that Oscar is a viable central midfielder.

No time for nonsense. I don't believe in anything about Oscar in any position except maybe left wing so I am not willing to even entertain debate.

It's like some niggas were comparing Ramires stats with Lampard in 2012 with me. Why the phuck would I want to compare Ramires with Lampard? I don't consider Ramires a viable central midfielder in the first place!!!!

Second of all, I have never compared players based on tackling stats. It is the most stewpid comparison metric unless you are comparing players who play the exact same game. What is the difference between making 2 tackles per game and making 3.5 tackles per game? Or making 1.7 tackles per game vs 2.4 tackles per game? You've got to be missing a whole chunk of education to think that is a decent sample size to compare.

It was Maldini who told me that a player should never have to tackle, and having to make a tackle means that a mistake has already been made earlier. What I look like comparing Taribo West's tackling stats to Maldini and claiming that means Taribo West is better?

If we want to talk about stats, we can talk about the fact that Matic is making 57 passes per game at 87% accuracy while Oscar is making 50 passes per game at 83% accuracy.

But why in the phuck would I want to argue back and forth over Oscar's stats when in the first place, I don't consider that mothaphucka to be anything like a midfielder? I ain't got time for futile nonsense!!!

Raumdeuter is at it again

hensben:
And I am saying you're asking me a foolish question. No offense. Is there any player better than messi in football world but there are players better than Neymar so his talent is still debatable.
Football is not mathematics that 1+1 is 2, there are some factors that have to be consider when analyzing players. Messi will do excellently well in epl except his 40+ goals per season in la Liga will not happen in epl.

Ok

Ibime:


You're the one trying to compare them by bringing tackling stats and all that.

For that to happen, you first have to believe that Oscar is a viable central midfielder.

Conte Clearly does. Anyway, we play 3 central midfielders and I ranked them on key Metrics.

Second of all, I have never compared players based on tackling stats. It is the most stewpid comparison metric unless you are comparing players who play the same game. What is the difference between making 2 tackles per game and making 3.5 tackles per game. It was Maldini who told me that a player should never have to tackle, and having to make a tackle means that a mistake has already been made earlier. What I look like comparing Taribo West's tackling stats to Maldini and claiming that means Taribo West is better.

Again of the three midfielders we play. Matic has the lowest interception stats. So if you're not tackling and not making interceptions as a so called defensive midfielder, what the fvck are you doing?

If we want to talk about stats, we can talk about the fact that Matic is 57 passes per game at 87% accuracy while Oscar is making 50 passes per game at 83% accuracy.

Of course we can accept those. But when we dive deeper, we will see that

1. Matic has the lowest number of forward passes of our 3 central midfielders
2. Matic plays shorter passes than his contemporaries

Which is why, he has the lowest possession ratings of our midfield 3. Nobody gives brownie points for 'e no spoil for my hand' sideways and unadventurous passes...well maybe except for you.

So the question here, is what exactly does Matic bring?

I mean, the guy has the lowest whoscored ratings of our midfield 3. What does he bring to the table?