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Discuss Anything Property And Lets Make Money In The Process / Residential Building Construction Mistakes In Nigeria You Need To Avoid / General Topic Thread - The Roforofo Thread Of Construction Activities (2) (3) (4)
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Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NL1960: 2:09pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NL1960: podosci: QS is not needed for every project. Should somebody go and subscribe to the services of a QS because he wants to build a small building in his village?. On this your 10m, 17, 19, 21, 25, 30m example, if we use my elimination method, 10m and 30m are out leaving 17m, 19m, 21m and 25m. The average of 17m, 19m, 21m and 25m is 82/4 which is 20.5m. So, you can use this to take a decision. If you subscribe to a QS, does the QS normally factor in inflation and exchange rates that can drastically affect the estimates?. I hope you know that most people building do not have all the funds at once. Is time value of money factored in by the QS?. Most people normally stagger a project. So, if QS for instance said foundation will cost x amount when exchange rate was N197 to a dollar, do you have to go back to the QS now that exchange rate is N370 to rework all the estimates?. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NL1960: 2:14pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
back2sender: Johnny Eghosa was advised to desist from building duplexes and focus on his area of strength which is bungalows. He took the advise and i doubt there had been complaints against him since then. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by jossy26: 2:18pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Good one @NL1960, the QS should only give quantity of material and not price; my architect did something nice in my plan, he included the sqm for every part of the building, rooms, pantry, verandah etc, it has made estimate easy, for finishing stages one can easily know the quanity of tiles to buy, etc many of the workers charge per sqm so it will be difficulted to be cheated unless the builder doesn't follow the measurement in the drawing. Ofcourse for big projects, commercial buildings etc QS is a necessity |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by podosci(m): 2:28pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NL1960:The elimination is just an example, You can decide from experience that 17 and 25 would do the job, its even possible 10m would do the job but the likelihood of someone doing a very good job for you with 10m when the actual worth is 30m is very low. Thats why you still need ro use the competency of the builder to select. Why not subscribe to the Consultancy services of the QS, so he would factor in the flunctuations in the prices of materials over time The same way people decide a builder/Engineer is not needed for a small project, is the same way a QS is not needed. In Nigeria there is no aganecy to enforce building standards or the agency is not serious about it, everybody is free to build is house the best way he sees fit but i am letting you know the proper way to go so as to reduce the possiblities of being cheated or possibilities of a builder running a way with your money. The method i explained above is how building contracts are evaluated and awarded by the Nigerian governement but corruption as replaced the process even contracts as low as 10m undergo the same process 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 3:17pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Is there really such a thing ? a builder that can only do bungalows but is not competent to do upstairs (in this case single story), I think I would just walk away if I knew that. If it was a case of a builder that can build a standard duplex, and one that can build a structure like 3rd mainland bridge, I can understand that level of expertise and perhaps a team of consulting engineers would be required. Lets remember that some well experienced bricklayers can build a standard duplex and it will be as good as the same duplex built by the engineers who constructed third mainland bridge. I am not saying that engineers should not be consulted, I just feel that a builder that can only do a standard bungalow but not a standard residential duplex is not worthy of being called a builder. Just my 2 cents. NL1960: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NL1960: 3:30pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
mavverick: Have you ever heard of experience on the job or job experience?. The experience needed on a duplex is not the same as bungalow. You can build a bungalow without pillars. There is no decking in bungalows. Do you think the builder who 'messed up' your project does not know how to build a bungalow?. How many collapsed bungalows have you seen or been hearing about?. Building a duplex is not for every Tom, Dick and Harry. 2 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by erico2k2(m): 4:12pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
podosci:I think I will agree to NL1960 here . The QS work in a construction company is to quantify . Tell you the numbers of what and what is needed for where hence his analysis would go with inflation even in 200 years time . So if he come up with 150 y16 rebars for a slab that would remain same regardless of cost.. I worked for a small coy in central London for the cross rail project we installed laser guided cameras to monitor shift or movement of existing building cos of shaft excavation . Now the QS hired told us homey of these we needed . Someone else told us howmuch it would cost and someone was responsible for us not to go above cost project manager . In all there was no law that states we had to follow that route rather it's just more efficient and cost effective to do it that way. So in all it was the Builder who employs the QS not the client |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by msogunro: 4:16pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
beedam: Please check your email. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by mavverick: 4:49pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Not to be sarcastic, I can supervise the build of a bungalow myself without the need for a builder, as long as I have a good architectural/structural plan which would have been done based on the survey plan and also valid soil test, I will check everything to the core and ensure it is exactly as stated in the plan. I will bring my own plum, spirit level, square checker L shape thing, measuring tape literally everything I can lay my hands on. Does that mean that builders are classed as 2 or more tiers ? Bungalows only and upstairs & bungalow. I still feel that a builder that is only able to build bungalow is not yet a fully fledged builder, maybe an apprentice or at least if at the beginning, you make it clear you want to build a duplex and he/she honestly says, sorry I cant execute such as its more than my capability. How many would say that in present day Nigeria ? The guy who performed below my expectations with regards to my build (Brabus Bosun Shoyoye) did it out of spite/prove a point, not because he didn't know the right thing to do. He did bad jobs on another peoples site, when they got someone else to clean up the mess "He told them that he was surprised he hasn't been called yet, because there were some secrets he needed to tell them that only he knows about" NL1960: 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by beedam(f): 4:58pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
msogunro: Ok |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NLresidentQS(m): 6:09pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
podosci: Spot on. It's because of the way Nigeria is that we keep arguing about things we shouldn't argue on. I saw a submission up that a client employs QS. That's erroneous in the technical sense, albeit correct literally. Mr A wants to build a house (client) and employ the service of Harney consult (contractor). Mr A can decide to bring in his QS to keep an eye on all quantities and measurements submitted for payment. And Harney consult, will obviously need the services of a QS for full project estimation, evaluation, measurements and cost control. The contractor and Mr A are both clients (literal) of the QS. Please get it right. Measurements goes beyond square metres on drawing. Will the architectural drawing also tell you the exact amount of steel you need, the exact quantity of paints, finishes, labour price, bags of cement, roofing materials, wood? There is a reason there is specialization. Please don't be overwhelmed in our project. If you think you can DIY yourself, my brother, the bricklayers, iron benders, carpenters are way smarter. Whether it is a bungalow, duplex, terrace, flats, or even roads, employ a QS for your project. It is the right thing to do. Peace. 4 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NL1960: 6:15pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
mavverick: So you think a builder that can build a duplex can build a skyscraper?. Do you see Julius Berger doing street roads of about 200meters or do you see the construction companies like 'mavverick and sons' that go to hire equipment to do a small street road of 200meters wanting to do a dual carriage road?. The fact that somebody can drive a car does not mean that he can drive a trailer or truck. Abi, you wan tell me steering na steering. The problem we have is that people that are not competent in an area will tell you that they can do it. If your build was a bungalow, you think it would have been messed up?. Five inches self can be used for a bungalow and not for a duplex. 4 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by battleaxe: 7:31pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
I have used a QS on a small build before and frankly, not sure I would do same for similar builds. I found a lot of the quantities grossly exaggerated and my understanding was that there were 'standards' based on a guide, which dictates the final quantities in the CORES. I didn't understand why we should allow for say X(can't remember the actual figure now) percent waste based on Nigerian factors. The contractor of course took advantage of this for his manpower/labour estimates......I.e. Based on the stated volumes/surface area. If I choose to do this again, I will probably have 2 versions to cater better for labour rates based on quantities listed. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by back2sender: 7:32pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NL1960:Thats how dey will build houses that sinks or go in the night to thief Customers material. A certified and trusted professional can build but even amongst them thier is a limit to what they can build. 1960 i agree with you N disagree with maverick Point of View. Some builders should just specialise in bungalow e.g maverick, Johnny, erico2k2, 3strikes, kopell,even me sef fit build bungalow all I need to know naa measurements etc lol and let the real professional like prof Spyder, segcymoor, aventures, segzy, Skimanski, abdulwastecx, PODOSCI, Hajji agba fit join this group from abundance of experience build both bungalow, duplex, many floors building. |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by jossy26: 7:45pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NLresidentQS: Lol, I like your marketing strategy, keep it up bro ![]() ![]() |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by abdulwastecx(m): 8:21pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NL1960: This method of evaluation is the best way to give out small building work. A quantity surveyor is basically a cost engineer they do more than estimating square meters, they plan job, work out schedules, estimate everything ad make sure project are done within some set out budget. For smaller project like a small residential apartment Such as a Bungalow or duplex you at not necessarily need their service. There is a big difference between engineer measurement and building measurement. These two items look identical but are very different. Engineer measurement deals majorly with civil engineering work like earthworks, pipe network, road construction bridge construction and other major engineering work. These area measurement are solely the work of civil Engineers while building measurement such as general building bills are exclusively the work of a quantity surveyor. With experience and since most building evaluation involve simpler mathematics and common sense, a very experienced builder/engineer can bill a building comfortably. For example, to estimate the quantity of blocks required for a particular project, a builder can use average excel chart and relationships prepared from different job to arrived at a more adequate and reasonable value. To estimate the quantity of plaster materials required to plaster a house a builder can use average rate per square meter of different subsequent job to have at a more appropriate estimation. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by abdulwastecx(m): 8:39pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
battleaxe: As a trained engineering graduate into building I will agree with you totally. The quantity surveyor I had worked with in the past always under quote reinforcement for any structural work expecially slab reinforcement. They do this base on their limited knowledge of bending schedule and reinforcement pattern It is also a common practice to over bill some section of work, especially sub structures. For a small structure, the client will be better positioned to work out prices directly with builder and be involved at each stage of the job. For example if I want to build a house with limited budget, I will generally follow the following procedures. 1. I will buy a relatively dry and gentle slop to flat land 2. I will work out mu budget before consulting my architect. By then I will have a big picture of what I want and I much I want to spend on the entire project. For example, I see having more than three toilet for a three bedroom flat as waste of space and money, I see very high roof to be waste of money. 3. I will try to do the soil test if I am building more than a Bungalow, people believe soil test takes too much money but the reality is that when one compare the cost of soil test to the total cost of the building, most time it amount to less than 2% of the total project cost. 4.I will consult a structural and services consultant to do my engineer design for me or give these to the architectural film to do all of them together. 5. At this Junction, I may invite a quantity surveyor to help me prepare a bill so that I can have a general view of how much I will need to spend ( I will set a maximum limit on the building budget). 6. I will plan with the above information on the duration of my project, by dividing the job into stages in accordance to convenience and my budget. 7. I will scrutinized my builders, Give them the quantities estimation to work on, if it fall within what I have on ground, I will proceed. 4. The job will only be awarded stage by stage. I will give a certain percentage at the beginning of each, pay the remaining when that stage has been completed, inspect that stage directly or through trusted third party. If work done is in accordance to design and our agreement, I proceed to the next stage 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 8:51pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
gabbytabby: Hmmm.... What else can l say? If they succeed in forcing to join their bandwagon and say what they want you to say (like Alhajj M has been made to capitulate), you become their 'respected' friend (at least until the day they ave another agenda) but if you chose to stand your own ground, they would start abusing you and call you names or group you with someone else or Brabus. Madam has spoken, well spoken. 3 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 9:06pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Oldlayez: Your logic is very funny! What you read on that thread was certainly about a Client (Maverick) who has a reputation for defrauding his Contractors (he mentioned many examples/names from Bricklayers to Welders, to Electricians and himself!) of their entitled pay, at the end of the work agreed Is he the one you should blame or the Client who was trying to cheat him out of his hard earned money? But then, l think he would come out to apologise for lying against his Client (if that is what he is now trying to say/do) in his post on that thread ![]() ![]() There is something said about "Cowards sitting on the fence". Anyway, all this Nairaland monikers have proved to be funny, when they may actually be the same person asking and answering the same question. Notwithstanding, its good they are trying to reach a common ground, at least we know what 'type of person' who and who is. Its not just Brabus, even some of his accusers are as fraudulent, if not even more, than they accuse him of 3 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 9:30pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Oldlayez: Shut your silly mouth there Maverick! I only reproduced what Adeekiti wrote about you, his Client, on his own thread. How does pasting what was already written and in public space for many months, become "single handedly destroying somebody's brand"? Are you implying that even you (Maverick) has not read these things (afterall, you both exchanged these words back-to-back for many weeks)? Are you saying it has prevented Adeekiti form getting other jobs since then? Are you saying Adeekiti was lying back then and he is now apologizing? Finally, are you saying 'm0wr0ns' like you are seeing what Adeekiti wrote about his "fraudulent Client", for the first time? it has nothing to do with me, l just brought it up to confirm that even Maverick that his pretending that he is a honorable person, is more fraudulent than Brabus because he cheats ALL his Contractors (as the posts on that thread says) If one looks closely, you would see that it is the same maverick using another moniker to stir things up between @Adeekiti and @Excuzeme. That is your style of ganging-up. This Moniker was registered August 20, 2016 just for this purpose! B-U-S-T-E-D 5 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by fash78(m): 9:56pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
[quote author=ice4u999 post=48228900][/quote] |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 10:02pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 10:02pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
mufutau55: Thank you for making this statement. That moniker was registered two days ago to foment trouble. it is likely Maverick himself playing his usual double game Adeekiti does a good job and we all know this. I am yet to see any of his Client come here to complain, except ofcourse, this same Maverick. Though the matter has been 'settled' to allow peace, the underlying issue and message is not lost on any honest person who reads the conversation in that thread. 9 Likes
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Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by QSFemi(m): 11:05pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
NL1960: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Nobody: 11:22pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
Sir, all issues were resolved and I've moved on. If I don't get works on nairaland doesn't mean I can't get offline. We are all human and we don't know where we or our children might meet each other and whatever damage been made at present will affect a lot in the future, so many people are paying for what their gone parents did a long time ago, if we fight today who knows about tommorrow. There is an adage that says "if we don't fight, we can't become good friends" the tongue and the teeth fights and yet they still live closer to each other and they belong to one family. Our ability to control things before getting into war is what makes us mature and grown. Me as a person i don't have any problem with mr Mavverick. If by any means I can remove those post, I will surely do that because Hajj has been a great man and he resolved every issues btw us and all respect to that man. I will beg you In God's name to let go any issues with mr Mavverick, you both are great men who can impact positively to this forum and this particular thread and as you do so it will be well with you and your household. He who is building will finish his/her house in jesus name and he/she that has completed their project "ile atura o". Ohun rere Ni a ma ba ara wa se o(we all will celebrate each other) hajj God bless you and your home sir Excuzeme: 2 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 11:44pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
@adeekiti: I dont find it enjoyable to have to use your old thread and raise these issues. I know you are a Contractor and as expected, you will want to keep a cordial relationship with past, current and even potential customers hence, you wont want to be involved in any controversy. I have read your 'general apology' and see it in that light as well I just have to bring that thread here to let others know that this Maverick is as bad as they come. He will make worse Brabus, if he was a Building Contractor because he steals from his artisans/workers/contractors. I also want to show that he is a hypocrite, a liar and a bully. Finally, he is a coward! All that boasting about using the Police to arrest his workers (in that chat he posted on that thread) is nothing but just loud-mouthing. If he has any balls to arrest anybody, he would have arrested Brabus instead of begging me to assist him in arresting Brabus. Even when l gave him the links, including phone numbers of the EFCC, he still wanted me to go there and do it for him. I even explained to him that you cannot institute a fraud action against someone except you are the aggrieved person that was defrauded (because you have to make a written statement the EFCC/SFU will act on). My own was to ensure that the matter is acted upon quickly and justice is served to anyone found guilty. Maverick backed out and instead was asking for my own 'personal phone number' as if that was needed for him to make a report of his case at those agencies. Then he started giving me unending excuses about how he cant make the report so, l just decided that he was most likely a criminal himself (shady background at best, even before l read your thread and what happened) or his source of money was 'dirty' thus, he cannot show himself to the authorities otherwise, he will implicate himself. KARMA works in ways we cant understand or predict I do feel for the people who lost money in their transactions with Brabus (that one is another serious case that needs to be dealt with) but my only sin is asking them to TAKE ACTION and stop wailing endlessly and derailing this thread, or just carry the noise-making to no less than THREE separate threads set-up to deal with such issues. It was not my intention to put you in the spot-light again as l know that is one thing that any Contractor tries to avoid: CONTROVERSY. But nothing to worry about, it is either your work is good and sell you or your work is bad and destroys you. We know which one it is about you If you think what you wrote on that thread are not a 'true reflection' of what transpired between the two of you (i.e you lied against him), you are free to delete them and l will urge you to do so, except you feel otherwise. I have made my point and will drop it here, except ofcourse, if Maverick wants it to continue, in which case, l will respond. 7 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Excuzeme: 11:52pm On Aug 23, 2016 |
adeekiti: Just saw this now. I do not really have a direct issue with him but him and his many user i'd's think they can force everyone to follow them in their chosen path. If l have issues with him, why would l volunteer to take up his matter, even when it made me an enemy of people like Egunmogaji (before they fell out), Brabus himself and many other people on the other side of the divide? he has called me about every other person that is not on his side, except to call me Maverick remain! ![]() As a matter of respect to you, l will NOT refer to this matter again. Stay blessed 5 Likes |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Nobody: 12:16am On Aug 24, 2016 |
Sir, Like I said before all issues are sorted and gone. Mr Mavverick is a good guy and I know you both can be good friends. I think you should leave me out of this issue, me and mr Mavverick are not having any grudges against each other because we've sorted things out . Im happy that I have met and worked for people here on nairaland and I'm still working for a client in benin who lives abroad and I have him some guys to work on his pop as well likewise a tiler. I met some men here mr Harrison, mr Yusuf both in diaspora, we've never met at all and we talk like brothers, , mr Yusuf is just like a brother to me as well, I got his window works and he even gave me chances to put his building after completion to sell on nairaland. My recent client as well lives abroad, I did his windows and railings likewise introduced some other guys to him, his aged father saw my works and he offered me to work on all their projects and this man always ring my phone everyday and he keeps telling, oh guy, NA only U fit get my contacts because he stops using his line immediately he speaks with any artisans he wants to give his jobs to but we still keep a bond like brothers till date. . Let's allow this thread to serve its purpose so that the future builders can learn from your own and mr Mavverick's ideas on building Excuzeme: |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by back2sender: 5:37am On Aug 24, 2016 |
Last page when will you realize you are a spent force here. You have totally ridiculed yourself here. Brabus does not come to engage anyone negatively because he has seen the damage to his brand but you that has been confirmed to be an hermaphrodite is causing trouble and even damaging other Brands here. Who you don epp sef? Even if naa to give person sweeping job! Baba agbaya you have been Sent into retirement here so respect your old age. Today i be soldier, tomorrow i be Efcc, next tomorrow i be road safety. You no dey tire, At your age you cannot be upright. If you dont want to allow this thread to go back to how it was before we will have no choice but to bind you N throw you inside yaba left or Aro abeokuta, The choice is yours people are. Just tired of your and dont want to be associated with you here any longer 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by NLresidentQS(m): 6:41am On Aug 24, 2016 |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Oldlayez: 7:13am On Aug 24, 2016 |
Excuzeme: Shut up you benign fool and criminal. 1 Like |
Re: General Topic Thread-To Discuss Anything And Everything in Building Construction by Oldlayez: 7:14am On Aug 24, 2016 |
Excuzeme: Shut up you benign fool and criminal. Onye iberibe 1 Like |
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