PabloAfricanus:

Dont credit yaself with posting references that only busted ya points.
Or rather dont praise yaself for posting historical accounts that hold no meaning to the discussion.
You quoted Jaja's 'trading' practices completely out of context...and attempted to cook up a mishmash of
unrelated facts to justify your argument...that a man nay a king who actually stood up to the greedy British is simply great
and not a hero.
Because according to you...he was a 'cut throat' bad business man...who should have allowed other profit
seeking business men to erode the margins on his commodities...
Cos apparently he did not bend over and hand over the control of his trading routes to the kind British...
He also did not allow hinterland traders direct access to the markets he controlled...
He also did not allow the wise British traders set the prices instead of him Jaja...
Even more importantly he completely monopolized the trade in a kingdom he founded and ruled...instead of
allowing other traders compete openly with him, crash his commodity prices, or sell at prices they choose to whomever...
The sheer naiveté of ya reasoning apparently eludes you...


Smh...insults wont win you any points in any discussion kiddo.
Show some civility atleast...
You could actually have proved you are the superior man by not resorting to insults.
But what do you know? Just a kiddo right?

Abeg, leave that ignoramus chimpanzee shouting mate, mate like this is a bristish gathering. He does not know how stupid he sounds. That's why all he had was to hide behind "historical facts" that did not support his foolish statement.

Abeg, leave the "mate"....

Shymm3x:


Lmao @ this puerile turd. You want to talk about civility, yet you spammed my handle on a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with me, with infantile rants about being emotional and all over the place. Are you sure you haven't been skipping ya meds? Then again it is typical with folks from ya part of naij - throw stones and hide ya hands, and everything has to be about emotional impulses rather than logical reasoning.

Aren't you the same plonker that asserted that Awolowo looks more culpable in the 1966 coup than a Zik who miraculously left the country two days before the coup? And the same clown who posted a textbook worth of epistle on the USA vs Russia thread, saying a lot without saying anything? If you are not a stark illiterate, then I don't know what you are. Or maybe a blinkered git is more applicable, no?

Anyway, use ya brain cells next time and check people's post history before spamming my handle everywhere. I'm not responsible for anyone trying to post like me or everyone that lives in the UK who's using British words.

Effing stark illiterate lol.

Smh.
Your lack of depth,comprehension skills and general ignorance about history indicates its safe to ignore you kiddo.
When I get interested in doing a video games yarn...I might engage you better.
So...#Ignored.

GooseBaba:


Abeg, leave that ignoramus chimpanzee shouting mate, mate like this is a bristish gathering. He does not know how stupid he sounds. That's why all he had was to hide behind "historical facts" that did not support his foolish statement.

Abeg, leave the "mate"....

Lol. Funny enough lots of those guys spewing British slangs might never have left the shores before.
Bunch of kids who can't even articulate what a constitution is discussing politics and history.
Its these type that will get themselves into high political office and sell off the country to the IMF and other western looters.
They don't even care to read or learn anymore...worse thing is they think its "cool".

PabloAfricanus:


Smh.
Your lack of depth,comprehension skills and general ignorance about history indicates its safe to ignore you kiddo.
When I get interested in doing a video games yarn...I might engage you better.
So...#Ignored.

Lmao @ this obtuse and vacuous emotional prepubescent kid with mood swings.

Who wants to engage an illiterate in anything? And did I even post on the thread before you started spamming my handle everywhere, wanking on the few times I gave you nightmares and showed how empty ya useless epistles are? I might be ya nemesis, but keep my dyck outta ya mouth, especially when I'm not on the thread.

If you had any iota of brain cells - you'd know that the guy you were engaging used to go by "cheddarking", "JackBauersballs" and a next handle. But oh no, like the resident primeval idiot most of you're on this forum - you had to include me. Effing bonobo. Like WTF?

Anyway, I don't want to engage you on any subject-matter cos you're too dumb/emotional for anything logical and ya epistles are always all over the place - saying a lot without saying anything. Just keep my name outta ya mouth whenever you're having ya nightmares.

Stop spamming my darn handle everywhere, you despicable village illiterate.

Shymm3x:


Lmao @ this obtuse and vacuous emotional prepubescent kid with mood swings.

Who wants to engage an illiterate in anything? And did I even post on the thread before you started spamming my handle everywhere, wanking on the few times I gave you nightmares and showed how empty ya useless epistles are? I might be ya nemesis, but keep my dyck outta ya mouth, especially when I'm not on the thread.

If you had any iota of brain cells - you'd know that the guy you were engaging used to go by "cheddarking", "JackBauersballs" and a next handle. But oh no, like the resident primeval idiot most of you're on this forum - you had to include me. Effing bonobo. Like WTF?

Anyway, I don't want to engage you on any subject-matter cos you're too dumb/emotional for anything logical and ya epistles are always all over the place - saying a lot without saying anything. Just keep my name outta ya mouth whenever you're having ya nightmares.

Stop spamming my darn handle everywhere, you despicable village illiterate.

Appalling ignorance takes refuge in petty, crass insults.
Your apparent ignorance is clearly not obvious to you...but then just a kiddo right?
Know your type...your level of mastery of English vocabulary is limited to stringing together expletives and insults.
Still does not make you sound tough or intelligent...doesnt even give a thug cred.
Smh...Bet you take pride in some East London hood upbringing.
Kiddo learn to be civil to ya betters ok?

PabloAfricanus:


Appalling ignorance takes refuge in petty, crass insults.
Your apparent ignorance is clearly not obvious to you...but then just a kiddo right?
Know your type...your level of mastery of English vocabulary is limited to stringing together expletives and insults.
Still does not make you sound tough or intelligent...doesnt even give a thug cred.
Smh...Bet you take pride in some East London hood upbringing.
Kiddo learn to be civil to ya betters ok?

Loooool. Just keep my name out of ya mouth and stop spamming my handle everywhere. You are inconsequential - I deal with folks above you and out of ya league.

pazienza:


Which agreement are you talking about?

Sorry to disappoint you, but Jaja was an Igbo man, he never stopped being Igbo for a single day. It's a bitter pill you have to swallow.

No argument about ur assertion! Jaja ibo by an established fact but he stopped being ibo and took Ibani ijaw tradition,initiation and way of life till his death! Even at his death,he bears the name jaja and remains buried in ijawlland! Get it clear! He is ijaw and he goes nowhere

elodie:
wike is nwaike ! Just théy ré changing their names to be less igbo. But we knw that wike is nwaike ezenwo is ezenwa. Ask thé gvr of River states hé knws what am saying. Nde ara. Even your south south dont exist in a World map. Just only in a division map in Nigeria thats where u Will see or here south south.

I learnt that their great grandfathers are from south east b4 a war that separated them and migrated some to south south in that case the don't want to be associate ted with the people of south east but their language is similar to another.

.

Nihilist:


There's a difference between being great and being a hero.

Dangote is great, but how is he a hero?

By all accounts, Jaja was a great man...but no hero.

This is a man who was intimately acquainted with the horrors of slavery, but chose to perpetuate that evil institution, when he could have played a part in stopping it, by virtue of his high position.

A former slave turned slave trader is the epitome of greed, and you cannot reasonably say that he would have been interested in ensuring fair prices in a free market.

What you see in that article is a hostile takeover that happened 200 years ago.

The only moral of the story is the danger of an unregulated economy.

Sorry, I was researching on something and came accross this thread. Allow me to drop this information here. It's an excerpt from Olaudah Equiano's Memoir. I believe you know who he is.

"…but how different was their condition from that of the slaves in the West Indies! With us, they do no more work than other members of the community,… even their master;… (except that they were not permitted to eat with those… free-born and there was scarce any other difference between them,… Some of these slaves have… slaves under them as their own property… for their own use".

pazienza:


Which agreement are you talking about?

Sorry to disappoint you, but Jaja was an Igbo man, he never stopped being Igbo for a single day. It's a bitter pill you have to swallow.

Why do you keep referring to him as Jaja(jubo jubogha) if he was Igbo

AjiereTuwo:

Why do you keep referring to him as Jaja(jubo jubogha) if he was Igbo

What does that have to do with anything? Does Edwin Clark stop being Ijaw because his name is Edwin Clark?

RedboneSmith:


What does that have to do with anything? Does Edwin Clark stop being Ijaw because his name is Edwin Clark?

Its just a question I asked, why not king Mbanaso, we all answer English names, but do we all bear Ijaw names?

AjiereTuwo:

Its just a question I asked, why not king Mbanaso, we all answer English names, but do we all bear Ijaw names?

He was adopted into an Ijaw household, and given an Ijaw name which he used for the rest of his life. I see no problem with addressing him by that name, none at all.

RedboneSmith:


He was adopted into an Ijaw household, and given an Ijaw name which he used for the rest of his life. I see no problem with addressing him by that name, none at all.

.

RedboneSmith:


He was adopted into an Ijaw household, and given an Ijaw name which he used for the rest of his life. I see no problem with addressing him by that name, none at all.

Okay, dats a good point, so if "the bearer"accepted it why are you denying it for him, Jaja was sold when he was very young, so he knew no other culture apart from the ways of the Ibani Ijaws

AjiereTuwo:

Okay, dats a good point, so if "the bearer"accepted it why are you denying it for him, Jaja was sold when he was very young, so he knew no other culture apart from the ways of the Ibani Ijaws

What are you getting at, please? Denying what? Will you say that the Ibanis born and raised in Ibadan who know no other culture apart from the ways of the Yorubas are not Ibanis anymore?

I hope you don't want to play that old game of dragging Jaja's origin and identity because I won't indulge you.

RedboneSmith:


What are you getting at, please? Denying what? Will you say that the Ibanis born and raised in Ibadan who know no other culture apart from the ways of the Yorubas are not Ibanis anymore?

I hope you don't want to play that old game of dragging Jaja's origin and identity because I won't indulge you.

Me either, its a discussion thread, we all have our different views, there is no need for argument

AjiereTuwo:

Me either, its a discussion thread, we all have our different views, there is no need for argument

King Jaja may have adopted the Ijaw name given to him by his Ijaw master but he was very much still Igbo at heart. The other leader of the Manilla house, Oko Jumbo, retained his Igbo name. I'm sure you've seen the Igbo Nollywood actress Uche Jumbo (now Rodriguez) from Abia state. In honour of the original founder of the Anna house, he named his new settlement Opobo.

You may need to know that Bonny was originally a slave port and slaves from the Igbo hinterland (mostly Imo, Abia state and Igbo-speaking areas of Rivers state such as Etche) were brought to Bonny to be sold. Some of them settled down there and Igbo became the dominant language. The Ibanis, natives of Bonny, were secretive with their language preferring to learn and speak Igbo with the majority Igbos in Bonny while speaking Ibani amongst ourselves. Overtime, Ibani language died out on Bonny town proper while it is still spoken in the interior villages of Bonny, but still most of the Ibani speakers are bilingual in both Ibani and Igbo in other to communicate with others. Thus, when Jaja moved to Opobo he moved with Igbo-speaking followers who settled with him in Opbob. 14 houses formerly in Bonny left Bonny and joined him in Opobo. Note, he met Opobo an empty land which he developed into his own estate, or into another Igbo town far away from Igboland. This explains why both towns are Igbo speaking.

Thus, King Jaja's Igbo identity was never lost. His native language still remained Igbo, the major language of communication in both Bonny and Opobo remained Igbo, and he still retained his Igbo name and ancestry.

Igbo language is widely spoken in Rivers state though. It has gradually spread into hitherto non-Igbo speaking areas such as Okirika, and some Kalabari speaking areas such as Amadi Ama etc.

bigfrancis21:


Well, Jaja's full Igbo name is Jubogha

In what universe is Jubogha an Igbo name?

Abeg let's not get carried away here.

RedboneSmith:


In what universe is Jubogha an Igbo name?

Abeg let's not get carried away here.

Oh I made a mistake. I was typing too fast.

bigfrancis21:


King Jaja may have adopted the Ijaw name given to him by his Ijaw master but he was very much still Igbo at heart. The other leader of the Manilla house, Oko Jumbo, retained his Igbo name. I'm sure you've seen the Igbo Nollywood actress Uche Jumbo (now Rodriguez) from Abia state. In honour of the original founder of the Anna house, he named his new settlement Opobo.

You may need to know that Bonny was originally a slave port and slaves from the Igbo hinterland (mostly Imo, Abia state and Igbo-speaking areas of Rivers state such as Etche) were brought to Bonny to be sold. Some of them settled down there and Igbo became the dominant language. The Ibanis, natives of Bonny, were secretive with their language preferring to learn and speak Igbo with the majority Igbos in Bonny while speaking Ibani amongst ourselves. Overtime, Ibani language died out on Bonny town proper while it is still spoken in the interior villages of Bonny, but still most of the Ibani speakers are bilingual in both Ibani and Igbo in other to communicate with others. Thus, when Jaja moved to Opobo he moved with Igbo-speaking followers who settled with him in Opbob. 14 houses formerly in Bonny left Bonny and joined him in Opobo. Note, he met Opobo an empty land which he developed into his own estate, or into another Igbo town far away from Igboland. This explains why both towns are Igbo speaking.

Thus, King Jaja's Igbo identity was never lost. His native language still remained Igbo, the major language of communication in both Bonny and Opobo remained Igbo, and he still retained his Igbo name and ancestry.

Igbo language is widely spoken in Rivers state though. It has gradually spread into hitherto non-Igbo speaking areas such as Okirika, and some Kalabari speaking areas such as Amadi Ama etc.

Uche Jumbo is an igbo no doubt from Abia state but you know there is Ibani influence in Abia state especially with the Ndokis the Opusunju family is also there, and the Ibani creole spoken by the Ibanis was due to commerce with the Igbos, like u will see a sentence like Ofunguru tachala azu di na nkana. But language revitalization processes are going on in the two communities to revive there mother tongue

AjiereTuwo:


Uche Jumbo is an igbo no doubt from Abia state but you know there is Ibani influence in Abia state especially with the Ndokis the Opusunju family is also there, and the Ibani creole spoken by the Ibanis was due to commerce with the Igbos, like u will see a sentence like Ofunguru tachala azu di na nkana. But language revitalization processes are going on in the two communities to revive there mother tongue

I'm aware of attempts in the past to revive Ibani in Bonny main town but the project failed. A few weeks after it started, parents withdrew their children from the Ibani classes organized by an Oil company (Chevron I think). There are several reasons for this. To be honest, the indigenes of Bonny main town are more likely to be more Igbo than Ibani by DNA. A DNA test can easily confirm this. These are descendants of hordes of Igbos who settled in Bonny over 100 years ago. Second, Igbo language is still preferred by the people and surrounding towns over Ibani because it gives them access to communicate with over 30 million Igbos. The usage of Ibani is strictly restricted, a very minor language it is. It is just like giving up English language, with over 300 million speakers worldwide, that we all speak today for Hebrew, with less than 7 million speakers worldwide. With Hebrew, communication with the world at large is hugely restricted. With the Igbo language, the Bonny people can easily communicate with almost the entire Rivers state (at least 70% of the 'ethnic groups' speak an Igbo dialect and when people from the different Igbo-speaking areas meet, they all communicate in Igbo) and the entire south east and the Igbo speaking parts of south south, thus the Bonny people prefer Igbo over Ibani. Aptly captured by the Igbo proverb, a na-afucha ebe a na-echi ozo wee gaba ebe a na-aru aru.

As for Opobo, I do not think any so-called language revitalization is necessary there. Jubogha met the land a virgin land which he developed. Opobo is not considered a town or settlement but rather King Jaja's estate which he founded. He settled there with hundreds, if not thousands, of Igbo speaking people like him and this explains the Igbo mother tongue there. Opobo may originally be an Andoni land, but King Jaja did meet it empty which he developed as his own estate. The recent tussle over the ownership of Opobo by some greedy Ijaw leaders was recently resolved in court affirming the fact that Opobo is not a traditional village or settlement like the rest of Nigeria but rather an estate established by King Jaja, with the proper documents signed and stamped, which he made sure to protect before his death and which is solidly under the control of the Anna house or the Jaja family.

bigfrancis21:


I'm aware of attempts in the past to revive Ibani in Bonny main town but the project failed. A few weeks after it started, parents withdrew their children from the Ibani classes organized by an Oil company (Chevron I think). There are several reasons for this. To be honest, the indigenes of Bonny main town are more likely to be more Igbo than Ibani by DNA. A DNA test can easily confirm this. These are descendants of hordes of Igbos who settled in Bonny over 100 years ago. Second, Igbo language is still preferred by the people and surrounding towns over Ibani because it gives them access to communicate with over 30 million Igbos. The usage of Ibani is strictly restricted, a very minor language it is. It is just like giving up English language, with over 300 million speakers worldwide, that we all speak today for Hebrew, with less than 7 million speakers worldwide. With Hebrew, communication with the world at large is hugely restricted. With the Igbo language, the Bonny people can easily communicate with almost the entire Rivers state (at least 70% of the 'ethnic groups' speak an Igbo dialect and when people from the different Igbo-speaking areas meet, they all communicate in Igbo) and the entire south east and the Igbo speaking parts of south south, thus the Bonny people prefer Igbo over Ibani. Aptly captured by the Igbo proverb, a na-afucha ebe a na-echi ozo wee gaba ebe a na-aru aru.

As for Opobo, I do not think any so-called language revitalization is necessary there. Jubogha met the land a virgin land which he developed. Opobo is not considered a town or settlement but rather King Jaja's estate which he founded. He settled there with hundreds, if not thousands, of Igbo speaking people like him and this explains the Igbo mother tongue there. Opobo may originally be an Andoni land, but King Jaja did meet it empty which he developed as his own estate. The recent tussle over the ownership of Opobo by some greedy Ijaw leaders was recently resolved in court affirming the fact that Opobo is not a traditional village or settlement like the rest of Nigeria but rather an estate established by King Jaja, with the proper documents signed and stamped, which he made sure to protect before his death and which is solidly under the control of the Anna house or the Jaja family.

Dna test? Lol is there any tribe in the world that isn't mixed even the jews of isreal are mixed, the leadership tussle was between the Jaja family and other familes in Opobo its the same thing that has happened in Okoloma, in Kalabari and Wakirike, there is always a ruling house which the supreme court ruled in favour of the Jajas, but despite the dispute for the kingship, everybody still ate together and no life was lost like other communities. It wasn't an Igbo vs Ijaw fight as u claim

AjiereTuwo:

Dna test? Lol is there any tribe in the world that isn't mixed even the jews of isreal are mixed, the leadership tussle was between the Jaja family and other familes in Opobo its the same thing that has happened in Okoloma, in Kalabari and Wakirike, there is always a ruling house which the supreme court ruled in favour of the Jajas, but despite the dispute for the kingship, everybody still ate together and no life was lost like other communities. It wasn't an Igbo vs Ijaw fight as u claim

Ya people everywhere are mixed but there's always a distinct marker that identifies each ethnic group. This is why despite the mixing going on amongst african americans, dna tests are still able to pin down which ethnic group in Africa an african american is from, by means of this distinct marker each tribe has.

Let me reiterate here that DNA testing will prove that Bonny indigenes are more Igbo by DNA than Ibani. I never said they are only Igbo, but more of Igbo and less of Ibani. Let's just be practical here. Just because these people live in Bonny or are natives of Bonny doesn't really make them Ibanis. As of the 1800s, hordes of Igbos had already settled there and the major language of communication was Igbo. Ibani was being spoken but more of a secret language by mostly by the bilingual Ibani natives. An author of his time made note of this. Infact the first Igbo bible was written in Bonny Igbo (ike m vs ike gi), Bonny being the first Igbo speaking town/people they got exposed to before moving inwards to the Igbo hinterland.

In summary, I don't think imposing the Igbani language on the mostly Igbo by DNA descendants in Bonny main town makes any sense by mere reason of Bonny was originally an Igbani town. However, I think any of such attempts should be focused on the proper Igbani natives.

bigfrancis21:


Ya people everywhere are mixed but there's always a distinct marker that identifies each ethnic group. This is why despite the mixing going on amongst african americans, dna tests are still able to pin down which ethnic group in Africa an african american is from, by means of this distinct marker each tribe has.

Let me reiterate here that DNA testing will prove that Bonny indigenes are more Igbo by DNA than Ibani. I never said they are only Igbo, but more of Igbo and less of Ibani. Let's just be practical here. Just because these people live in Bonny or are natives of Bonny doesn't really make them Ibanis. As of the 1800s, hordes of Igbos had already settled there and the major language of communication was Igbo. Ibani was being spoken but more of a secret language by mostly by the bilingual Ibani natives. An author of his time made note of this. Infact the first Igbo bible was written in Bonny Igbo (ike m vs ike gi), Bonny being the first Igbo speaking town/people they got exposed to before moving inwards to the Igbo hinterland.

In summary, I don't think imposing the Igbani language on the mostly Igbo by DNA descendants in Bonny main town makes any sense by mere reason of Bonny was originally an Igbani town. However, I think any of such attempts should be focused on the proper Igbani natives.

Lol, when was this your Dna test taken? And your argument about Igbo language being more useful than Ibani doesn't hold water, cos there is a common language in the whole Nigeria, English, the igboid languages in rivers state are not even intelligible

AjiereTuwo:

Lol, when was this your Dna test taken? And your argument about Igbo language being more useful than Ibani doesn't hold water, cos there is a common language in the whole Nigeria, English, the igboid languages in rivers state are not even intelligible

I was born in Rivers state and I partially grew up there (lived at D-Line Omoku) and visited severally after my father got relocated out. The Ikwerres, Eches, Ndonis, Ogbas, Bonnys etc. all understand each other when they meet and communicate in Central Igbo. That's just the fact.

And oh yea, my argument about Igbo language being more economically viable than Igbani does hold water. The Bonny people made the decision for themselves. There's no gainsaying the fact.

Once more I reiterate: extensive DNA test conducted on Bonny indigenes will quickly reveal their ancestral make up, being more Igbo than Igbani. And yes, African Americans are taking the DNA test more and more in recent years and are reconnecting back to their African ancestries. Look up T D Jakes (Igbo), Oprah Winfrey (Liberia), etc. It turns out that the DNA test is not only useful in determining paternity of a child. Its use goes way beyond that.

By the way, your writing style seems quite familiar to me. Most likely a nairalander of yore under a new moniker.

bigfrancis21:


I was born in Rivers state and I partially grew up there (lived at D-Line Omoku) and visited severally after my father got relocated out. The Ikwerres, Eches, Ndonis, Ogbas, Bonnys etc. all understand each other when they meet and communicate in Central Igbo. That's just the fact.

And oh yea, my argument about Igbo language being more economically viable than Igbani does hold water. The Bonny people made the decision for themselves. There's no gainsaying the fact.

Once more I reiterate: extensive DNA test conducted on Bonny indigenes will quickly reveal their ancestral make up, being more Igbo than Igbani. And yes, African Americans are taking the DNA test more and more in recent years and are reconnecting back to their African ancestries. Look up T D Jakes (Igbo), Oprah Winfrey (Liberia), etc. It turns out that the DNA test is not only useful in determining paternity of a child. Its use goes way beyond that.

By the way, your writing style seems quite familiar to me. Most likely a nairalander of yore under a new moniker.

Funny enough, you are d 2nd person telling me this, one dude on nairaland was so paranoid to the point he said that he knew me on facebook where i argued with him under another alias , but I joined nairaland last month, and I must say its more tribalistic than the real world, maybe cos people can hide under a fake name, and btw saying a language is better than another is just being tribalistic.

ANOTHER GREAT MAN.... WITHOUT REMOVING THESE GREAT MEN LIKE JAJA,NANA(NIGER-DELTA)OBA OVORAMEN(MID-WEST),AWUJALE(WEST) AND ATTAIHIRU(NORTH)....THE BRITISH WOULD HAVE FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO PENETRATE NIGERIA.

BUT THE FEW COWARDS SOLD THEIR SOULS FOR A BUNDLE OF ZINC AND MIRROR......

opal4real:
ANOTHER GREAT MAN.... WITHOUT REMOVING THESE GREAT MEN LIKE JAJA,NANA(NIGER-DELTA)OBA OVORAMEN(MID-WEST),AWUJALE(WEST) AND ATTAIHIRU(NORTH)....THE BRITISH WOULD HAVE FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO PENETRATE NIGERIA.

BUT THE FEW COWARDS SOLD THEIR SOULS FOR A BUNDLE OF ZINC AND MIRROR......

So true!