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UPS Back-up, Also A Complement To FTA / FTA Frequency / Cctv Installation A Complement To Fta And Solar Energy (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by battleaxe: 3:56pm On Sep 23, 2016
Monlo:

Nope,since there will always be energy loss,mind you energy efficiency is never 100%,but you can use an mppt cc to maximize your wattage output.RE rules,one love all.

So with an MPPT charge controller, what is likely to be the output from the 130W panel? Under an ideal sunny day?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 4:44pm On Sep 23, 2016
Its possible...a phenomenon called solar glare. You know solar panel are rated under standard test conditions where light intensity is 1000w/m^2 but there are rare occasions where the sun's rays are dispersed by a cloud causing illuminance higher than 1000W/m2. So if 1000w/m2 illuminance gives 130W, you would expect 1200w/m2 to give above 130w. However this is very rare.
battleaxe:
@bodejohn, dmerciful, pranil, all etc.

Is it possible to get 130W from a 130W solar panel?

Thanks.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 10:31pm On Sep 23, 2016
battleaxe:
@bodejohn, dmerciful, pranil, all etc.

Is it possible to get 130W from a 130W solar panel?

Thanks.
theoretically yes it can.. under standard condition where sun is at the right glare and right angle to the panel and the temperature is just under 25C. When with all this in place (very rare) u still need to have the right wiring .. even with all these there is inverter inefficiency to consider. The rule is to assume 77% of your panel capacity has the capacity u get in real life use after u remove things like heat coefficient, inverter efficiency and position of the sun. I usually just times panel size by 0.77 to get a useable figure I can use when sizing my system.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Saipro(m): 9:05am On Sep 24, 2016
bigrovar:
theoretically yes it can.. under standard condition where sun is at the right glare and right angle to the panel and the temperature is just under 25C. When with all this in place (very rare) u still need to have the right wiring .. even with all these there is inverter inefficiency to consider...

In fact, if you add conditions of cold weather with solar glare or cloud edge insolation, you can go as high as 125% (the highest I've yet seen during winter in the USA). I've heard of Canadians hitting in excess of 150%, I guess because it's biting cold there. Thus, matching VoC to upper limits could pose a real problem as limits would be exceeded under such conditions.

Back home in the tropics, I've on occasion hit 100% and momentarily exceeded it (never more than 10 minutes at a go). Typical day for that is the clear skies of the rainy season right after a brief shower/storm with the combination of cool panels, a clear skies and an amazingly brillant sun around noonday.

And a few minutes later, we drop back to the typical 70 - 80% harvest.

bigrovar:
... the rule is to assume 77% of your panel capacity has the capacity u get in real life use after u remove things like heat coefficient, inverter efficiency and position of the sun. I usually just times panel size by 0.77 to get a useable figure I can use when sizing my system.

I always use 77% efficiency in my calculations. Saves a lot of time and headaches.
85% efficiency for inverters too (while charging batteries)

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 1:16pm On Sep 24, 2016
richmon74:


It's such a pity that in your 15yrs of electrical engineering practice you have always been limited to environments where energy conversions from SOLAR PANELS stay within 100%.

But in my 2 months of renewable energy apprenticeship I av installed 12 of 255w solarworld solar panels at Unity road in Lekki in Lagos (a very easy place to locate in case anyone wants to chexk it our) which is by calculation 3060w and the Outback FM80 charge controller records a Maximun Wattage output from it to be 3654w as shown in the pictures below. Or maybe the charge controller is faulty or I can't read the digits very well.

Maybe I need a better explanation to that readout
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 1:55pm On Sep 24, 2016
Barezzi:

Interesting thoughts...
I am currently in the process of upgrading my setup, but torn between ac coupling it with a grid-tie inverter or buy a hybrid inverter.

Can you post a block diagram of your setup?
Goodday have you been able to do the upgrade?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Saipro(m): 2:17pm On Sep 24, 2016
richmon74:


It's such a pity that in your 15yrs of electrical engineering practice you have always been limited to environments where energy conversions from SOLAR PANELS stay within 100%.

But in my 2 months of renewable energy apprenticeship I av installed 12 of 255w solarworld solar panels at Unity road in Lekki in Lagos (a very easy place to locate in case anyone wants to chexk it our) which is by calculation 3060w and the Outback FM80 charge controller records a Maximun Wattage output from it to be 3654w as shown in the pictures below. Or maybe the charge controller is faulty or I can't read the digits very well.

Maybe I need a better explanation to that readout

Heh heh heh. That's an amusing thing to quote. I 100% understand what richmon74 is saying. I think I'll sum it up as a wrong choice of words and ... well ... tempers. He sounds kinda inflammed ... but I could be mistaken - I offer my apologies in advance. It's true no system will offer you more than 100% efficiency much less 100% yield. The problem is in looking solely at the output and not the mechanics. Indeed, no solar panel is capable of 50% output at the moment. Even 25% is an overkill. The argument is about the total power output versus the rated power output. Once more, I could be mistaken but solar cells are pretty inefficient but ... we have lots of free sun so almost any inefficiency (so long as there's enough space and support for the panels) is acceptable. So, if you see a 200W panel generating 250W, consider the other variables.

By the way, some reputable companies, in order to protect their reputation, quote the minimum specs on their panels. One could almost argue they're under-rating their panels. Like Solarworld and Canadian solar. Then again, I believe that should be the norm, to guarantee customer satisfaction.

Caveat: Should I have offended anyone at all with my post, I apologise. I expect no reprissals, please. I truly am rusty and haven't dusted my books in a while but it is to my understanding that not much of the fundamentals have changed. Thank you.

EDIT: I wish to not have my head being bitten off so I'll state here that higher efficiency experimental cells exist but nothing of the sort commercially. Thank you once more
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 3:38pm On Sep 24, 2016
Why are you being extra nice? You said the truth and should offer no apologies. Who has a beta info can share but for now I have the same thought as you.
Saipro:


Heh heh heh. That's an amusing thing to quote. I 100% understand what richmon74 is saying. I think I'll sum it up as a wrong choice of words and ... well ... tempers. He sounds kinda inflammed ... but I could be mistaken - I offer my apologies in advance. It's true no system will offer you more than 100% efficiency much less 100% yield. The problem is in looking solely at the output and not the mechanics. Indeed, no solar panel is capable of 50% output at the moment. Even 25% is an overkill. The argument is about the total power output versus the rated power output. Once more, I could be mistaken but solar cells are pretty inefficient but ... we have lots of free sun so almost any inefficiency (so long as there's enough space and support for the panels) is acceptable. So, if you see a 200W panel generating 250W, consider the other variables.

By the way, some reputable companies, in order to protect their reputation, quote the minimum specs on their panels. One could almost argue they're under-rating their panels. Like Solarworld and Canadian solar. Then again, I believe that should be the norm, to guarantee customer satisfaction.

Caveat: Should I have offended anyone at all with my post, I apologise. I expect no reprissals, please. I truly am rusty and haven't dusted my books in a while but it is to my understanding that not much of the fundamentals have changed. Thank you.

EDIT: I wish to not have my head being bitten off so I'll state here that higher efficiency experimental cells exist but nothing of the sort commercially. Thank you once more
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Barezzi(m): 5:25pm On Sep 24, 2016
DUNKA:
Goodday have you been able to do the upgrade?
Still in the works bro... The current free fall of the naira is not helping matters angry

Saipro...lol... no one is offended here, if anyone picks offence, the Lagos lagoon no far. I fully agree with your submission.

For those of you averse to reading long epistles, here's the news in brief;
1. At our current tech level, module conversion efficiency is very low (less than 25%).
2. Actual power output vs rated power output of a pv module is influenced by "other variables". Hence, A 200W panel can generate 250W.
3. Point 1 above is not the same as point 2.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by abunafiu(m): 7:30pm On Sep 24, 2016
Alhaji Saipro, how u dey sir.

we both have been enjoying our systems. I am enjoying my 3kw poly system. wish I had discovered this earlier.
I must confess, 70% or 80% hmm even 150% efficiency doesn't matter again.
all I see now is 1pm 59v absorption and 3pm float.
what's else do I need.
When last did I crack my head to do energy calculations.. Except for a prospective clients.
Currently enjoying Game of thrones season 6.
it's 7.30pm here in Ilorin.

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by battleaxe: 8:31pm On Sep 24, 2016
Thanks for all your wonderful responses- educative as usual.

May I enquire as to the best bang for the buck, with respect to AGM batteries currently?

With the rates these days, one shouldn't have to spew money for battery change in 1 year again.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 9:18pm On Sep 24, 2016
kiekie1:
Myhome solar panels super promo ;

150w mono-40000 poly-35000
200w mono-55000
250w mono-68000,poly-62000
300w mono-75000,poly-70000


Joy solar panels;;;
200w mono #55000
260w poly #65000
320w poly #75000
phocos PWM controllers :10a #9500
45a #70000 80a #100000


Valid till 30/09/2016

NOTE: We buy bad or condemned 200A deep cycle batteries at #11,000 .. Call us now !
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by RipVanWink: 8:26am On Sep 25, 2016
kiekie1:


NOTE: We buy bad or condemned 200A deep cycle batteries at #11,000 .. Call us now !

sounds interesting, for those in lagos, how do u do it, inspect and pay etc.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 8:58am On Sep 25, 2016
RipVanWink:


sounds interesting, for those in lagos, how do u do it, inspect and pay etc.

Yes .. Call me if you are interested !
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by efuro(m): 10:40am On Sep 25, 2016
kiekie1 I wish I have power to pencil ur name down for national award like M.O.N you love this great country, also u love ur business.
nice one to buy back new batteries so we actually loose nothing going green energy. God bless u. God bless all the gurus here. I love this forum.

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by RipVanWink: 4:20pm On Sep 25, 2016
abunafiu:
Alhaji Saipro, how u dey sir.

we both have been enjoying our systems. I am enjoying my 3kw poly system. wish I had discovered this earlier.
I must confess, 70% or 80% hmm even 150% efficiency doesn't matter again.
all I see now is 1pm 59v absorption and 3pm float.
what's else do I need.
When last did I crack my head to do energy calculations.. Except for a prospective clients.
Currently enjoying Game of thrones season 6.
it's 7.30pm here in Ilorin.


congrats for your going solar, 16 units of 6v 430ah trojan battery??!!. omo no be beans.
errrrm, i dont know how you would take this, but i think you shud pay more attention to ur wiring/setup.
spend a lil more and make your cabling neater, the other pic u posted of ur 16 trojan batts, was really really uncool, wires going here n there, n then this ur sitting rm/tv setup, a lil trunking and flat panels/wood would give the setup a more aesthetic look.
pls i beg you, dont replicate same in your new house

4 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 4:48pm On Sep 25, 2016
RipVanWink:


congrats for your going solar, 16 units of 6v 430ah trojan battery??!!. omo no be beans.
errrrm, i dont know how you would take this, but i think you shud pay more attention to ur wiring/setup.
spend a lil more and make your cabling neater, the other pic u posted of ur 16 trojan batts, was really really uncool, wires going here n there, n then this ur sitting rm/tv setup, a lil trunking and flat panels/wood would give the setup a more aesthetic look.
pls i beg you, dont replicate same in your new house
Abu is in a temporary accommodation. I believe he is building and almost through so ii am sure he has plans to tidy. Up the wiring when he moves to his own house. cheesy

3 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Unionised(m): 5:03pm On Sep 25, 2016
Dear all,
I am about purchasing APS Inverter 3.5kva plus 4 pieces of 200ah batteries.
To add solar panels later.

Any advice? Caution? Better options?

My expected bill is as follows:

Inverter 138k

Battery 90k times 4 equals 360k

Rack/Stand 15k

Installation 40k

Total - 553k

Stop me before I make a mistake.

Note: just for my beloved TV and 14 energy saving bulbs a maybe a fan or two.

Total load less than 1,000w.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 5:22pm On Sep 25, 2016
Unionised:
Dear all,
I am about purchasing APS Inverter 3.5kva plus 4 pieces of 200ah batteries.
To add solar panels later.

Any advice? Caution? Better options?

My expected bill is as follows:

Inverter 138k

Battery 90k times 4 equals 360k

Rack/Stand 15k

Installation 40k

Total - 553k

Stop me before I make a mistake.

Note: just for my beloved TV and 14 energy saving bulbs a maybe a fan or two.

Total load less than 1,000w.
An high end inverter I.e magnum,sma,exceltech,froniius,outback etc would be best but in a lower range Prag,voltron, power light etc will serve.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Unionised(m): 5:56pm On Sep 25, 2016
DUNKA:
An high end inverter I.e magnum,sma,exceltech,froniius,outback etc would be best but in a lower range Prag,voltron, power light etc will serve.

So APS is a no no?

How much would a high end with same spec cost?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 6:04pm On Sep 25, 2016
Unionised:


So APS is a no no?

How much would a high end with same spec cost?
Still your choice bro just gave u my own opinion which may not be correct. An High end inveter with the current dollar rates 700k and above.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 6:17pm On Sep 25, 2016
But whats the advantage of a high end inverter? He is not running a hospital with pace makers or a recording studio where interference/noise is not wanted. With 700k you can go far with ur going green project. Inverter is just a converter instead get a normal inverter(Indian inverters are pretty good) with good charging system and you're good. With his 4 batteries and if he maintains 50% DOD and install a desulphator(about 10k) his batteries will last long. Alternative power should be cost competitive else won't be worth it. Some of these american inverters are expensive due to the cost of production/american pride and not because they are magical. It is what it is.
DUNKA:
Still your choice bro just gave u my own opinion which may not be correct. An High end inveter with the current dollar rates 700k and above.

5 Likes 1 Share

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 6:32pm On Sep 25, 2016
DMerciful:
But whats the advantage of a high end inverter? He is not running a hospital with pace makers or a recording studio where interference/noise is not wanted. With 700k you can go far with ur going green project. Inverter is just a converter instead get a normal inverter(Indian inverters are pretty good) with good charging system and you're good. With his 4 batteries and if he maintains 50% DOD and install a desulphator(about 10k) his batteries will last long. Alternative power should be cost competitive else won't be worth it. Some of these american inverters are expensive due to the cost of production/american pride and not because they are magical. It is what it is.
Just my opinion and he asked for the best but you know very well why there are high end inverters. Be rest assured there are good lower priced inverters but as you know most of the Chinese, Indian and Korean inverters are fragile and if you load more than 50% of their rated capacity you will know why high end inverters cost as much as they do grin

I have named brands that have good user feedback the choice is ultimately his for whatever decision he makes

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DMerciful(m): 7:12pm On Sep 25, 2016
I use Mopower inverter(same as sulkam more or less) 1.5kva. Been using it for 1.5yrs now n sometimes t power my freezer or fridge with it n even my washing machine. My batteries are still going strong. So if it can run these loads without issues then what else? Btw its sine wave n its less than 50k now. I actually bought it 40k
DUNKA:
Just my opinion and he asked for the best but you know very well why there are high end inverters. Be rest assured there are good lower priced inverters but as you know most of the Chinese, Indian and Korean inverters are fragile and if you load more than 50% of their rated capacity you will know why high end inverters cost as much as they do grin

I have named brands that have good user feedback the choice is ultimately his for whatever decision he makes

1 Like

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 7:47pm On Sep 25, 2016
DMerciful:
I use Mopower inverter(same as sulkam more or less) 1.5kva. Been using it for 1.5yrs now n sometimes t power my freezer or fridge with it n even my washing machine. My batteries are still going strong. So if it can run these loads without issues then what else? Btw its sine wave n its less than 50k now. I actually bought it 40k
Bros I am not challenging your assertion. You are using Mopower and you have good user feedback and experience that it is a good and reliable product. @op please consider this product in your possible candidates. I prefer brands that people have actually used and have tested their reliability. Its all good

2 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by DUNKA(m): 7:51pm On Sep 25, 2016
Unionised:
Dear all,
I am about purchasing APS Inverter 3.5kva plus 4 pieces of 200ah batteries.
To add solar panels later.

Any advice? Caution? Better options?

My expected bill is as follows:

Inverter 138k

Battery 90k times 4 equals 360k

Rack/Stand 15k

Installation 40k

Total - 553k

Stop me before I make a mistake.

Note: just for my beloved TV and 14 energy saving bulbs a maybe a fan or two.

Total load less than 1,000w.
unionised please what sort of batteries are you using?
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by abunafiu(m): 8:17pm On Sep 25, 2016
RipVanWink:


congrats for your going solar, 16 units of 6v 430ah trojan battery??!!. omo no be beans.
errrrm, i dont know how you would take this, but i think you shud pay more attention to ur wiring/setup.
spend a lil more and make your cabling neater, the other pic u posted of ur 16 trojan batts, was really really uncool, wires going here n there, n then this ur sitting rm/tv setup, a lil trunking and flat panels/wood would give the setup a more aesthetic look.
pls i beg you, dont replicate same in your new house

thanks dunka, you spoke my mind.
all you see from the wooden solar stand down to even the television are a temporary.
seriously working on my permanent site and by the grace of God we shall see less wires. I am even eyeing home automation.
my electrical conduit piping has even taken care of home theatre speakers.
oh yes, I must not replicate this at the permanent site. thanks for the brotherly love.

3 Likes

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by bigrovar(m): 8:53pm On Sep 25, 2016
DMerciful:
I use Mopower inverter(same as sulkam more or less) 1.5kva. Been using it for 1.5yrs now n sometimes t power my freezer or fridge with it n even my washing machine. My batteries are still going strong. So if it can run these loads without issues then what else? Btw its sine wave n its less than 50k now. I actually bought it 40k

very similar to my setup. In my case I use the sulkam falcon plus inverter rated 1200W (1.5kva @ 0.8 power factor).. The battery monitor I have between the inverter and battery reads a no idle load of 25w. So far so good the inverter is doing fine. My defining load is a 175 Liter LG freezer with start up surge at close to 800w and running power at 130w. What I like about this inverter is that it comes with a battery temperature sensor which allows it to do temperature controlled charging...

The downside is that the max voltage it can charge my battery is at 28.8v which is pretty low for a floaded acid battery.. however since I just use it as a bulk charger and still have my charge controller has my primary battery charger.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Unionised(m): 9:09pm On Sep 25, 2016
DUNKA:
unionised please what sort of batteries are you using?

Boss, I'm a novice seeking expert opinion.

Give me your own option within 600k (installation inclusive).

Thanks.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Obimind1: 10:27pm On Sep 25, 2016
bigrovar:


very similar to my setup. In my case I use the sulkam falcon plus inverter rated 1200W (1.5kva @ 0.8 power factor).. The battery monitor I have between the inverter and battery reads a no idle load of 25w. So far so good the inverter is doing fine. My defining load is a 175 Liter LG freezer with start up surge at close to 800w and running power at 130w. What I like about this inverter is that it comes with a battery temperature sensor which allows it to do temperature controlled charging...

The downside is that the max voltage it can charge my battery is at 28.8v which is pretty low for a floaded acid battery.. however since I just use it as a bulk charger and still have my charge controller has my primary battery charger.
Same with me, the max my inverter can charge my battery is at 28.5v. Using ur charge controller as ur primary battery charger what the max voltage u see?
I'm asking cus mine inverter is by brand Mpower 1.4va.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by Obimind1: 10:48pm On Sep 25, 2016
DMerciful:
I use Mopower inverter(same as sulkam more or less) 1.5kva. Been using it for 1.5yrs now n sometimes t power my freezer or fridge with it n even my washing machine. My batteries are still going strong. So if it can run these loads without issues then what else? Btw its sine wave n its less than 50k now. I actually bought it 40k
My 1.4va Mpower inverter is 2years and 3 months old with the same Mpower batteries 200ah*2 agm that came with it as at the time of purchase. So far my inverter has been super intelligent and by God's mercy I have not worked on it ever since I bought it. My next plan now is adding two more batteries to my already existing system so as to enjoy a longer back up time. Or betterstill, if I am to get four new batteries and dispose this present set of batteries I have, what will be the best way to connect these 4 new batteries to my 1.4va 24v system to avoid unequal charging over a long period of time? Pls advice from this wonderful forum will be highly appreciated.
Re: Solar Energy, A Complement To FTA by kiekie1(m): 11:24pm On Sep 25, 2016
efuro:
kiekie1 I wish I have power to pencil ur name down for national award like M.O.N you love this great country, also u love ur business.
nice one to buy back new batteries so we actually loose nothing going green energy. God bless u. God bless all the gurus here. I love this forum.

I appreciate .. Remain blessed BRO !

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