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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / An Important Question For Ifenes (1843 Views)
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Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 3:51pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas:well. The dude was a jewish rabbi,,who practised the life of the ''essenes''..or was one of them...and was the disciple of john the baptist who was an essene..not the other way round...(my views) and he wasnt from nazareth... |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by Ranchhoddas: 4:17pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella:Explain this |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by 4everGod1: 5:41pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella: Ranchhoddas from the above statement you can clearly see why I said he is ignorant of Scripture and only argues for the sake of it. John the Baptist himself declared that he was unfit to lace the shoes of Jesus yet this guy sayd Jesus was disciple of John the Baptist...I think he needs to show you scriptural proof of this. Plus he says Jesus the Son of Man was not from Nazareth even when He was clearly identified as a Nazarene and the books of Luke and Mathew declared He was from Nazareth Galilee. I am tired of facepalming and shaking my head for this guy as he clearly shows that even as an Atheist who enjoys ridiculing Christianity he lacks knowledge of Scripture..... How can someone claim Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist who the bible described as his forerunner and who had to play the script of Baptising Jesus in order to fulfil all righteousness. .. I don tire abeg. Afterwards now he will also call it a typo. |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by Ranchhoddas: 5:59pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
4everGod1:I was flummoxed by his response. I was waiting for him to come and explain himself before asking him whether he has ever read the Gospels, because from the top of my head I can remember Jesus saying ''a prophet is not honoured in his own country'' ie Jesus Himself acknowledged His nationality. I don't know where Raphie is getting his information from. |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by 4everGod1: 6:13pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas: From what I saw yesterday and today I can deduce that confusion or gross misinformation led him to atheism. |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 7:15pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
4everGod1:i dont take my knowledge from only the bible brother....im not a partaker to ''sola scriptura'' just as oyedepo became richer than adeboye...oyedepo's fanatic followers can claim adeboye was oyedepo's ''boy''... Do you understand me sire? Ranchhoddas |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 7:17pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
4everGod1:you saw nothing yesterday sire... We can talk about today... Today would seem so..because its what you believe in sire... |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 7:18pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas:m on it bro.. |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by 4everGod1: 7:23pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella: I dare say that you are sorely confused! Assuming I want to go with this your howler can you show me any proof of anywhere you claimed to have read that Jesus was a disciple of John the Baptist? Plus can you tell me who was greater? John the Baptist or Jesus? I asked this because even this your usage of Oyedepo and Adeboye is absolutely without a doubt wrongly applied. So answer my questions. Also are you a fanatical follower of John the Baptist to claim Jesus was his "boy" Disciple |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 8:32pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas:to me...his ''legacy'' created the city nazareth... Reasons 1) Nazareth does not appear in the Old Testament, nor does it appear in the volumes of Josephus's writings (even though he provides a list of cities in Galilee)...*at the alledged time of jesus's existence* 2)Nazarene seems to refer to a christian movement or adherents to the early christian movement as seen in acts 24:5... 3)Nazarene may be derived from the word ''nazara'' which was given to people devoted to God from birth.. Like john the baptist(luke 1:15.. Paul also was accused of being the leader of the sect and making asking some men to make a nazarene/nazara vow (acts 21:23--26) |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by Ranchhoddas: 9:12pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella:Strange...When you and other 'Jesus-deniers' usually want to disprove the existence of Jesus, you declare the writings of Josephus as unreliable hearsay but now that you need it Josephus is now an authority. Anyway, I personally consider the New Testament to be the most reliable document of the life and times of Jesus. I see no reason to take the writings of relatively obscure authors over that of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Do you? 1 Like |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 9:38pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
4everGod1:pls baba..we are not quarreling oo abeg its just what i deduced sire.. 1) he was baptised by john 2)after the baptism,,before and after john's death..his disciples remained distinct and didnt follow jesus (acts 9:1-7)...in the second century they were known as the ''Mandeans'' and had theological conflicts with christians...the polemics of early christianity confirm this... jesus without a doubt lol..his adherents still exist till this day... Just that they've shifted a bit in their system https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandaeans and im not a follower of john.. I speak for myself...and pls no be quarrel o |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 9:50pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas:i never said jesus never existed... I strongly believe he did...but not the way he was potrayed the passage of jesus being crucified is clearly a forgery...truthfully undisputed but i get your idea sha... contemporary evidence...thats what they are for matthew is off the charts for me... He's an exaggerator...fictional,over zealous, and miscontructs and misinterprets events to his own needs... Mark is the one i trust most... Luke clearly said he's not an eyewitness..but a re-teller of events told john? I dont know...seems gnostically inclined.. But they were in ''fourth to fifth person accounts... Also they were many gospels..the catholic church chose ''those four''.... |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by 4everGod1: 9:50pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella: Please answer this question using the options below; Who was Present during the days of Jesus a. Mathew b. Mark c. Luke d. John e. Josephus f. Raphiemontella When you are done answering that then answer this; Whose words are to be trusted. ..One present with Jesus or one who was not? Then answer this question; since you already can attest to the fact that Jesus was greater than John then why should their doctrinal conflicts matter for surely the greater is to be followed. Did the Madeans die for the sins of the world? The prophecy regarding the coming of a messiah was it pointing at the medeans? If it wasn't what then should be your concern about them and the beliefs they hold? Should it in some way then negate the ministry of Jesus Christ? Like I said before, you are sorely misinformed and confused....but like you said ....no be quarrel! |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by Ranchhoddas: 10:20pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella:Please what is the source of your information and why is it to be taken over what is documented in the New Testament? The 'hidden gospels' contain way more exaggerations than the available ones (eg The young Jesus performing tricks on His friends--From the book of Thomas if my memory serves me right ) so I don't get your reason for even mentioning them at all. |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 10:27pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
4everGod1:none sir i dont believe the gospel writers were present with jesus... Thats where the problem stems in.. Thats where our two views arise.. good point.. But there's more to ''early christianity'' prophecy? Which one? The ones i know are non-prophecies... Well i dont expect you to see reason with me on this.. Its like two sides of a coin confused?..... Misinformed?? Hell no.. I read broadly..and i always look at two sides of a paper before leaving my signature on one.. Jesus existed..hell yes.. But other added stuffs to his existence and his ''divinity'' etc are weird... |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by 4everGod1: 10:47pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
raphieMontella: All these your "good point" comments...pls this is not a debate because I know u love debates. Do you agree that Jesus was Divine? If yes why would you claim anyone added anything to his existence and divinity especially when it clearly declares in John 21 vs 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did. If they should be allrecorded one by one [in detail], I suppose that eventhe world itself could not contain (have room for)the books that would be written So to you Mathew Mark Luke and John never encountered Jesus and never knew Him? Let tow your train of thought and ask you this.... If you say they were not with Jesus and Josephus also was not why would you take Josephus's words as an authority when he lived in 100AD? So there was no Prophecy about the birth of Jesus? ok grab your Bible if you have any and read up Isaiah 7:14 (NIV): Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Micah 5:1-2 (NIV): 1 Marshal your troops, O city of troops, for a siege is laid against us. They will strike Israel's ruler on the cheek with a rod. 2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times." Genesis 49:10 (NIV): The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. Isaiah 11:1-10 (NIV): 1 A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit. 2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD-- 3 and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears; 4 but with righteousness he will judge the needy, with justice he will give decisions for the poor of the earth. He will strike the earth with the rod of his mouth; with the breath of his lips he will slay the wicked. 5 Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist. 6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling[1] together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper's nest. 9 They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD as the waters cover the sea. 10 In that day the Root of Jesse will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. There are several more even from Jeremiah and others. Were those additions to the Bible or speaking about someone else? |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 11:18pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Ranchhoddas:like the infancy gospel of thomas...matthew also hyped jesus's miracles... this in no way invalidates the account tho...but i hope you get my idea.. And they're many scriptures..not only the ''gnostical hidden ones''.. A lot of new testament apochryca... Matthew and luke sourced from ''mark'' etc |
Re: An Important Question For Ifenes by raphieMontella: 8:07am On Oct 05, 2016 |
4everGod1:oga abeg oo oga i didnt think of that..pls i dont believe his divinity.. The gospel of john was the last among the others...had enough time to elevate jesus's status etc more.... ...... they never did.. The person closest to encouter jesus is ''james the just''.... But his works,version of christianity disciples etc were lost.. Best bet :the jewish war and destruction of the temple at 70 ad he is not a supreme authority but he is a much more credible source for contemporary evidences because he is a certified historian...and was versatile in his work.. Others during jesus's time like philo and pliny did nothing on jesus. not a prophecy.. Mistranslated word.. Mary,joseph never called jesus immanuel (dont say he was God) bethlehem ephrathath..a name for the descendants of ephrathath..in jesus geneology ephratath was not listed and is not a town the descendants.... i see....but this would work out well if jesus was a descendant(seed) of joseph..(i dont believe the virgin birth) the prophecies seem to speak of a literal descendant of jesse/david...not a miraculously concepted one and one who will be king of israel and deliver their enemies into israel's hand...during his lifetime the power of ''rome''.... |
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