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Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by ValentineMary(m): 9:28pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka:I have noticed a pattern to ur reply on this thread. Any deliverance proven false turns out to be done by fake men of God who are not authentic but if it appeals to u, then it is authentic. Believe me, I have seen many fron many "powerful" men of God that are popular all through Nigeria perform exorcism even on T.V and am like "Why would any sane person believe this?" I have also seen many deliverance in prayer house and many are just psychological phenomenon. Oh and don't forget Oyedepo deliverance where he slapped thag young girl. Very legit. 2 Likes |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 9:33pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka:if God made us through our parents that means he made some people deformed at birth through their parents. 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 10:03pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
donnffd: How can I make such a grandiose claim! However, I think it is you who makes such a claim..that natural laws can explain EVERYTHING. You know that nature can do everthing and can explain everything! I nearly claim that nature can't explain everything. donnffd: Of course, there are so many things. Example A. Instinct in Animals: How does a chicken know it should brood on her eggs? How does a baby know it should suck Mating behaviours in animals Foraging in insects Social segregation and duties of bees Birds building nests Sexual behaviours among birds etc B. Intuition: Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without proof, evidence, or conscious reasoning, or without understanding how the knowledge was acquired. donnffd: Everyone is constrained by the laws of nature. If I were on the moon, I would be able to jump higher than 8feet off the ground. If I eat only fruits and berries, I might live to be 130 years old. If cells do not age..I would be stronger at 99 than a young man of 20. So many things constrain our lives. Even, Demons constrain some peoples lives through limitating their natural capacities.. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 10:20pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
ValentineMary: I believe that I have not singled out a deliverance and called it false. I am only saying that there are men in suits parading as men of God who claim to be used by God! I would be a hypocritical bigot if I just blindly defend the church without pointing out this flaw. I even pointed out that the fact that things are happening does not mean that God is at work. ValentineMary: LOL. Let's say many are just psychological phenomenon, how do we explain the few realistic but bizire ones? ValentineMary: I am sorry, no offence intended to living faith members: Bishop Oyedepo is not known for deliverance. I have never once seen anyone manifest demons in his ministrations. He is a man of God, I don't doubt that to the limit of my human understanding. His major area of "expertees" is faith and knowledge of the Word. Every Minister of God have their own calling. He is doing the work of God to the best of his ability. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Amberon: 10:21pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Shadeyinka When I saw the line "the first is a deliverance through Skype", I immediately said to myself " it must be Chris Lasala" and I was right. Chris Lasala is no fake at all. What he does is very real. I even have his phone number, gmail, and Skype I'd. I called him about 2 months ago and we had a Skype session. His deliverances are very real. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 10:32pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
CeoMYN: It is called "Delegation of Responsibility". It is given to men to procreate. I decide whether to stop at 2 children or 9. Every delegated responsibility can be used rightly or wrongly. I decide whether to train them or not to the limit of my capability. Birth deformity is an unfortunate situation that can happen because of factors beyond our control. Sometimes, it is a consequence of our actions like taking some drugs but most times, like in genetic defects inherited from our bloodlines, there is not much that can be done on it. In some years past in India, poor parents mutilate their children to make them more pitiful looking so that they can attract more alms. Accidents such as fire or mechanical may also cause mutilation. Like I said, the world is diseased and so, many things can align to go wrong. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 10:39pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Amberon: Thanks for sharing. Like I said. ..by their fruit you shall know them. Did you have a deliverance session with him? One of the signs of a real deliverance ministers is not monetizing the gift. I have heard of some men in suit who parade themselves as men of God collecting various amount of money for different "class of demons". May God help us. We are indeed in the end times. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 10:42pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka:answer this. 1. Is the world so diseased that God can't heal the world? 2. Did God create us or our parents made us? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 11:04pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
CeoMYN: It is not Gods intention to heal the world right now. It is His intention that every choice we make in this imperfect world is the solution to our "Exam"!. Gods ultimate goal is to select by merit those who will Love Him unconditionally and Love their neighbour as themselves. At the end of this exam, God is making a new Earth... CeoMYN: Its not a yes or no answer! Ultimately God created everybody through the instrument of our Parents. Our Parents were given that deligated Authority to Procreate their kind. Can our Parents make us? I don't think so but their genes are in us. Their choices result in us! 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by hahn(m): 11:07pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Bro, common sense will tell you that they simply want to act like everyone else and "claim" their healing. It is an act of desperation. Have you ever fallen under the anointing? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Amberon: 11:32pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
We had a prayer session but he asked me to call back after a month for deliverance because from the things I told him, he deduced ( and I had prior knowledge too) some things which I can't mention here. That was why the deliverance couldn't be done. Rightly said, any pastor or prophet who takes money for prayers is not of God. Chris Lasala is different cuz he doesn't seem to care about money. For him its all about preaching the right message and setting the captives free. shadeyinka: |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 11:37pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
hahn: I couldn't help but laugh in Japanese language. Its obvious you haven't seen deliverances and tried to unravel whether its acting, joke or unexplained reality. Since you know Jim Iyke can you explain why he behaved like this according to your above submission https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-7dMRbDHbA Have I ever fallen under the anointing? NO! |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by hahn(m): 11:39pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka: EXACTLY |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 11:46pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
shadeyinka:You are saying that you don't really know whether God made us or our parents. Why would a loving God wait for a long time to heal the world? 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 11:50pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
Amberon: You are on track my bro! Before you meet him, you can do some form of self deliverance ( of course not every demon will go but many will) 1. Spiritual Sanitation: Some demons disappear when you stop giving in to their cravings especially in the case of compulsive sins 2. Daily Offensive Torment: In the name of Jesus Christ, command them to be in torment....fire, chain, cage etc. As long as it is in Jesus Name anything you say is done in the spirit. The strategy is to haraz them till they leave. 3. Address your Dreams: As you begin to pray, they will begin to surface in your dreams. Address them by their description and break, nullify their operations. There are some kinds of demons who wouldn't go unless another child of God pray for you. Deliverance is not one key solution to all problems, the battle is never over till one dies but at least you can break off the resident ones. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by mank1234(m): 11:51pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
As a young man he could see very well. When he grew up he couldn't see anymore though he had eyes. This was because his eyes was covered with a veil though it appeared to him like a veil was rather removed. He heeded no advice nor followed the way he was thought. He assumed to be all knowing using few scientific and logical ideas distorted to suit his myopic new way of thinking. Suddenly, after many years, on his dying bed, it dawn on him that there's a way which seems right to a man but the end thereof leads to destruction. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 11:59pm On Oct 04, 2016 |
mank1234: Your Parable applies to many. Its the same old strategy: You shall be wise... Knowing Everything.. You don't need Him... He wants to suppress you.. So, they chose knowledge over wisdom They choose independence rather than sonship Let His sons proclaim His Name, His Love and His Way and Truth. Pahap some who were truely blind will see clearly Shalom my Bro! |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 12:03am On Oct 05, 2016 |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by hahn(m): 12:07am On Oct 05, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Nah. Same bs we see in churches daily. Let the holy spirit heal an amputee then it will be taken seriously. I am in no mood to watch adults make fools of themselves 2 Likes |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 12:14am On Oct 05, 2016 |
CeoMYN: Dictionary definition of Made: verb (makes, making; past and past participle made) Does not apply to humans as you seem to want it used. CeoMYN: Who says God is a loving God? God is LOVE! God is JUSTICE! God is ABSOLUTE! GOD doesn't condone sin even with those who love Him not to talk of those who dont Love Him. He is a CONSUMING FIRE!! |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 12:18am On Oct 05, 2016 |
hahn: Its just a Scientific experiment. I chose Jim Iyke because I feel you should know him. From your posts I know that you are not a Bigot so, you will be objective. |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by hahn(m): 12:22am On Oct 05, 2016 |
shadeyinka: You do realise that the adherents of other religions experience the same things, right? |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 12:31am On Oct 05, 2016 |
shadeyinka: It is a case of “horses for causes”, you disagree with my theory that congregants are subtly manipulated into a semi-hypnotic or auto-suggestive state but it would seem fairly obvious, people who listened to Adolf Hitler give his famous speeches in the 1930's raved about the spell-binding and mesmeric qualities of his speeches, attend any musical concert and observe how easily a crowd can be whipped into a frenzy why on earth is it that the likes of Benny Hinn et al would fling his coat around and his congregants would swoon ? The fact that there are no scripts, or that the delivering minister has no control over the actual response of the victim is rather immaterial, the damage is already done. Some people are more suggestible than others, hence some will engage in the charade unwittingly. Many people will attend those types of services with a heightened sense of anticipation already placing them in a highly suggestive state and environment. I do not see an issue of demonology in hypnosis. I am not a Pastor, not even a "Penticostal Christian" neither do I own any fellowship but God has used me in this ministry of deliverance so I speak from personal practical experience. Sorry sir, every Christian cannot cast out demons just because they are "born again" any more than say every Christian can pick up a poisonous snake because they are born again. They are not equipped to do so. Most importantly there is a differentiation to be made between what Christians describe as demons being cast out and true demons in a metaphysical sense. In a Christian sense whilst a demon can sometimes be seen as an entity or an unwelcome spirit it is more often than not a set of undesirable attributes, for instance, it could be the demon of drugs, drink, lust, slothfulness or what have you in addition to all manner of psychological presentations ranging from schizophrenia, split-personality disorders, cognitive dissonance.The deliverer is then cast in the role of unqualified diagnostician, giver of succour and healer, it really is a mess. In a metaphysical sense a demon is a different kettle of fish altogether. A veritable entity, whilst I will not go into the different forms characteristics and attributes of demons, I will simply say that most people seeking deliverance will never have a truly demonic experience, and for that at least we should be thankful. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 12:36am On Oct 05, 2016 |
hahn: Of course. Muslims do Rukya etc. Many south American traditional religion have manifestations. The Yoruba's have what is called "Egun Sango": manifestations of the spirit is sango. However, I am not particular about them in this post because most people are familiar with Christian Deliverances |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by hahn(m): 12:39am On Oct 05, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Yeah. Let me put it this way, I take christian "miracles" as seriously as they take the "miracles" of other religions. And vice versa |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 1:31am On Oct 05, 2016 |
Sarassin: If you ask me: my personal view of Benny Hinn, I would say he doesn't do deliverance! I understand the power of mass hypnotism usually, it predesposes one to follow the hypnotist with a form of unnatural awe. People like Hitler convinced a whole nation to follow him to their death. The same with Jim Jones in the Guyana Tragedy. Even though these are realities as you pointed out, they do not fall under the class of demonic manifestations. Falling under the guise of anything is NOT deliverance. Sarassin: I perceive that you are Catholic, so I am going to use examples from Exorcism performed by certified exorcist. The Priest sometimes use Holy Water and sprinkle just a little on the demonized and you know the reaction? The demonized feel burning sensations which may result into screams from the demonized. Some time, the cross of the Lord Jesus is held in front of the demonized and it has the effect as if blinding lights are coming out of the cross into the demonized eyes. I don't believe that this reactions are due to heightened anticipation, demonized being in a suggestive state and environment. Sarassin: With hind sight, I strongly believe that it is demonic. Sarassin: I know that in the Catholic church, exorcism is highly regulated. Apart from the fact that not all Priest are "liscenced" to do deliverance, special permissions is also required from a higher Priestley authority. The regulation was put in place to prevent more damage being done to a person in the name of deliverance. However, in a non regulated environment the observation is that every Christian has dominion over demons. Every Born Again can but it doesn't mean that every born again is properly equipped. It takes faith, experience and sometimes tutelage by an experienced deliverance minister. Trust me, every christian can do deliverance. In the course of deliverance, one quickly learns that its not you doing it but God through his Angels carrying out your commands. Sarassin: I understand your point and I think the reason why this is so is because the Bible commands us to cast out demons without explaining how to. Most of what we know about demons are from first hand experience in casting out demons. Demons vary a lot according to Rank, Type, Function and Domain. As far as I am concerned, a demon is a demon...a demon is an enemy..a demon must be ejected. The Body of Christ is divided over their identities: Some say demons are Fallen Angels, some say demons are spirits of the Nephillims but we all agree that they are unclean spirits. I typically treat demons as spiritual equivalent of disease causing pathogen's and they can infect: The Body: causing physical infirmities The Soul: causing emotional and behavioral sickness The Spirit: usually used by Satan as coworker of spiritual wickedness The Environment: causing temptation or haunting of a place or thing. The place of adequate training is important but I have not found one yet. This is why many ministers cause more harm especially when a deliverance is partially completed. Sarassin: I think your definition of demons seem to be only for the case of possession. Pls correct me if I am wrong...I prefer to use the word Demonize because it covers every shade of demonic addiction. Cases of possession is not as common. Sorry for this personal question: are you a Priest? You don't have to answer if you mind |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 1:32am On Oct 05, 2016 |
hahn: No problem: I can speak on that which I understand! 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 4:42am On Oct 05, 2016 |
Lennycool: My bro for the fact the said pastor brought heaven down doesn't necessarily mean his ways were right with God, see matt 7:23...When Jesus would say depart from me you evil doers for i "never" knew you. Mark the word never. When People call on the name of God, He honours it that still doesn't mean everyone that called Him were pure. thanks and God Bless |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by Nobody: 5:20am On Oct 05, 2016 |
Aya mi ja |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 6:15am On Oct 05, 2016 |
Jezyfreezman: Why now? |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by dblackninja: 6:35am On Oct 05, 2016 |
shadeyinka: You still have no proof whatsoever to buttress your claim. I have not fallen under the anointing too, neither have I manifested in deliverance sessions. You are not alone. Thanks for being honest. So what does this tell you? That the holy spirit has forgotten you? Why is it that you're just a bystander hearing claims upon claims without a single shred of evidence? You just need to watch a few clips with a healthy skeptism and you will be convinced that some truth lies within what you have seen. The clips we have so far haven't shown a single evidence of demonic possession. Deliverances aren't real bro. It's just one of the many drama we see in churches & prayer houses. 1 Like |
Re: Atheists Comment Required: Deliverance by shadeyinka(m): 6:55am On Oct 05, 2016 |
dblackninja: I believe you love your Parents and Siblings? If this is True, what's your Proof? If Physical Proof is impossible, is the conclusion that "You don't love your Parent" Think! What could be a sufficient evidence or proof of your love for your beautiful Girlfriend? God is LOVE! He is NOT subject to Physical laws dblackninja: Falling has never been an evidence that GOD has His interest in you. How many of Jesus disciples " fell under the anointing? ". I am just His Disciple, there is only one major evidence a believer is required to have. A Seal..bearing witness with ones spirit. Unfortunately, its not a public thing. I can know of only myself and I cannot even know how real the seal of the pope or Bishop Oyedepo is. LOL dblackninja: LOL in Dutch and Swahili! What is your Idea about Demonic Possession? ..I hope they are not what you see in Horror Movies? Dracula, Frankenstein, Alien, the Thing...LOL The demonized are apparently normal human beings like you and me. 1 Like |
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