sino:
@tintingz

I am quite interested to know what you would gain by knowing how Eve was created…

Let me start by saying I use to believe the rib story from the bible and the popular phrase "I've found my missing rib" I use to believe the Quran also mention the rib story until I decided to confirm how Eve was created in the Quran and wholaa! I didn't find any rib mentioned in the Quran, i did my research on scholars tafsir, what I found were different opinions and as you can see e.g Shi'ism doesn't believe in the rib story and there are hadiths that rejects the rib story since it was not mentioned in the Quran.

Well, I see no reason this should be an issue, Allah (SWT) states that Eve was from Adam (AS), which is the most important point to understand, whether it is from his soul, body or rib has no impact on the original belief.

So what if I am asked, was Eve created from Adam's rib? I guess I will start giving different opinions.

Why are you confused?! You do not like that Eve was created from Adam’s rib?! Would believing this affect your faith?! How?! Is it impossible for Allah (SWT) to create Eve from Adam’s rib?!

@bolded, i should ask did Allah mention rib in the Quran?

It is very possible for Allah to create Eve from Adam's rib but since it is not mentioned in the Quran why must i believe in the rib story?

Scholars do what they do best; explain in details the noble verses with evidences. You said you read somewhere that “hadiths were corrupted by the Jews”, I do not take such statements seriously, perhaps the narration in question has been corrupted, but that would be a huge task to prove, where, when and how?! (i.e the narration quoted by Ibn Kathir which is authentic by the way).

I said "some" hadiths were said to be corrupted by the Jews, are there no ex-jews that converted to Islam during the Prophet(SA) time?

Know that you cannot fault the mufaasir for his opinion presented, especially if backed by authentic evidences, the narration quoted by Ibn Kathir is quite clear and simple to understand, I do not see any reason to claim literal meaning and metaphorical meaning. Anyway, Allah (SWT) in His divine wisdom has stated in His Book, what we all can understand to mean: Eve was created from Adam (AS), this is simple and straight forward, it doesn’t contradict the narration in question, and the narration does not conflict with the Qur’an (whether taken literally or not).

Ok.

Below is the appropriate translation of the narration:

Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “I enjoin you to treat women well, for the woman was created from a rib and the most curved part of the rib is its uppermost part. If you try to straighten it you will break it, but if you leave it as it is it will remain curved. So be good to women.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 3153, Sahih Muslim 1468

You may click HERE to read the narration in Arabic.

And Allah Knows best!

Thank you for your contribution.

^

It is not issue of faith really. It seems tingtinz is just curious how she came into being. I dont have problems with whether she was created from Adam's physical body or soul. If He can bring forth a baby from a woman, what else He cant do?. I understand you feel uncomfortable bcus of the link in the Bible. That's understandable. But we have indisputable similarities. Just like Isa(as), both christians and Muslims believe she was born through virgin Mary. So this is no issue.

Empiree:
^

It is not issue of faith really. It seems tingtinz is just curious how she came into being. I dont have problems with whether she was created from Adam's physical body or soul. If He can bring forth a baby from a woman, what else He cant do?. I understand you feel uncomfortable bcus of the link in the Bible. That's understandable. But we have indisputable similarities. Just like Isa(as), both christians and Muslims believe she was born through virgin Mary. So this is no issue.

It is not about any linkage to the bible it is more than that which I won't say now.

tintingz:
Let me start by saying I use to believe the rib story from the bible and the popular phrase "I've found my missing rib" I use to believe the Quran also mention the rib story until I decided to confirm how Eve was created in the Quran and wholaa! I didn't find any rib mentioned in the Quran, i did my research on scholars tafsir, what I found were different opinions and as you can see e.g Shi'ism doesn't believe in the rib story and there are hadiths that rejects the rib story since it was not mentioned in the Quran.

I understand the fact that we, as Muslims, need to do our own research about our beliefs. Islam enjoins us to seek knowledge and ask questions, to ask the people of knowledge when we do not know. There are guidelines for this, as well as proper approach. The reason I am interested in what you intend to gain from knowing how Eve was created is basically as a result of understanding what beneficial knowledge is, what we as Muslims should take as a priority, when we embark on a personal research. For example, I listened to Ustadh Nouman Ali Khan commentary/lecture on Surah Al-Khaf, wherein he mentioned how Allah (SWT) teaches us how to focus on what is important with respect to the companions of the cave. People were speculating they were 3, 4, etc. but Allah (SWT) dismissed these people and their argument without even mentioning the exact number i.e the information about their number is not important! Focus on the lessons to learn, what you need to know to improve your Iman, and be a better Muslim. A lot of us fall into irrelevancies when we lose focus on what is important with respect to acquiring knowledge. So the Qur'an did not mention rib, but scholars have different opinions, since it was a research you are doing, you should be able to weigh these diverse opinion based on the evidences presented. The fact that rib is not mentioned in the Qur'an does not invalidate the opinion that Eve was created from Adam's rib, have you forgotten the role of the Prophet (SAW)?! For instance, the Qur'an didn't mention all what the Prophet (SAW) saw when he went on the night journey, but the Prophet (SAW) narrated to his companions in details, do we reject these narrations because we can't find them in the Qur'an even after such narrations had been authenticated?!

Shi'a narrations are not reliable, this is not me bashing them, it is a fact corroborated by their own scholars!

tintingz:

So what if I am asked, was Eve created from Adam's rib? I guess I will start giving different opinions.

Bro, there is no harm in saying you do not know, and yes, you can always give the different opinions of scholars, that is after you must have stated what Allah (SWT) says in the Qur'an (i.e Allah (SWT) created Eve from Adam (AS)), this is acceptable if you are academic in your approach. As stated above, it is important, if you do have the requisite skills to verify the evidences provided by these scholars so as to reach an appropriate conclusion.

tintingz:

@bolded, i should ask did Allah mention rib in the Quran?

It is very possible for Allah to create Eve from Adam's rib but since it is not mentioned in the Quran why must i believe in the rib story?

My response above should suffice for this, also, I had presented an authentic narration which gives credence to such story. The Qur'an didn't mention rib, but that doesn't mean it is wrong to believe in the rib story, at least, we can understand from the Qur'an that Allah (SWT) did create Eve from Adam (AS). So if an authentic narration says from the rib, Eve was created, I see no reason you should doubt it.

tintingz:

I said "some" hadiths were said to be corrupted by the Jews, are there no ex-jews that converted to Islam during the Prophet(SA) time?

Okay, some hadiths, and yes some Jews converted to Islam. And some narrations were fabricated by the Jews (I'm not sure of corrupted), and I write with respect to the narration I presented, stating that such may be as a result of Jewish fabrication is farfetched.

tintingz:

Ok.

Thank you for your contribution.

You are welcome.

^ sino.

You said Shi'a narration are not reliable? Is it because of the differences in ideology?

Anyways I still don't follow the rib story completely.

Jazakallah khairan.

tintingz:
^ sino.

You said Shi'a narration are not reliable? Is it because of the differences in ideology?

Anyways I still don't follow the rib story completely.

Jazakallah khairan.

Wa anta fa jazakallah khayran.

With regards to Shi'a narrations, it is not only ideology, but also their methodology, in fact they never had a science of hadith until much later after the sunni had standardized their own science of hadith. Their earlier scholars accepted narrations without recourse to verify the chains of narrators, to simply put, they believed every narration to be authentic regardless of who said what, hence, majority of the narrations found in their books are either fabricated or weak (and very weak in most cases). You can read more HERE

As I opined earlier, rib story is not an issue, we just need to be careful in dismissing authentic narrations without strong evidence(s).

AlBaqir:


Really its two opposite view. When the hadith says, "what do these people says", it refer to those of opposite view from the Imams of Ahl al-bayt.

How do you think she was created?. Qur'an already suggested she was from him. Any other theories are not that important though. If someone says today with another "tafsir" that Hawwa was vomited from his mouth, who cares!

I stand by what tafsir Ibn Kathir says which is in harmony with the hadith. I do not believe the ayah was bent to conform with the hadith. At the end of the day, the whole thing is irrelevant to me as a person

Empiree:
How do you think she was created?. Qur'an already suggested she was from him. Any other theories are not that important though. If someone says today with another "tafsir" that Hawwa was vomited from his mouth, who cares!

Empiree:

I stand by what tafsir Ibn Kathir says which is in harmony with the hadith. I do not believe the ayah was bent to conform with the hadith. At the end of the day, the whole thing is irrelevant to me as a person

# Where does Quran suggests "she was from him"? I have given you three different translations. Only one forced its belief on the Arabic word "wa khalaqa MIN-HA zawjaha".

# The preposition "min" could mean "from or of". And "az-Zawj" means pair of same specie. This is why we have the first translation and Tafsir which never ever denote Hawwa was created from Adam.

# The second translator and Tafsir is almost same as the first. The only difference is that it suggest min i.e of" goes back to "ha" which is "Nafs". Therefore, both Adam and Eve were created from the same Nafs.

# All these are clearly different from translation and Tafsir of Ibn Kathir which clearly interpret "Nafs" as Adam, and "zawj" as (female)Hawwa. And "min-ha" as "from him (Adam)". Note: Ibn Kathir stick to this because of the literal meaning of the hadith that says Hawwa was created from Adam's rib. What about the hadith in Tafsir al-Mizan which says Hawwa was created from the remnant of the clay used to create Adam, is that rib? By and large, I am not interested with these two ahadith. My concern is Quran interpretation by itself.

# So, where is the harmony you keep talking about? I expect you to rather stick to the second translation and Tafsir (of Abdullah Yusuf Ali - vis-a-vis Imam Razi) who suggest "creation of same soul" and clearly discard rib's suggestion. This is where your points encompass not Ibn Kathir.

# No one doubt Allah's Power to create whatever He will and how He will it. Dialogue here is Quran never ever go linguistically or itself interpretation, in the direction of Ibn Kathir.

^

Well, in as much you agree that Allah was capable of creating Hawwa from Adam's rib, dont you think trying to dig further is irrelevant?.

I respect opinions of others than Tafsir Ibn Kathir as well. I just believe that his is too specific and I have no problem with it. After all, the same clay Hawwa made of MUST have touched that of Adam.

Empiree:
^

Well, in as much you agree that Allah was capable of creating Hawwa from Adam's rib, dont you think trying to dig further is irrelevant?.

# You mean "do you think?" @underline.

# I never said it is irrelevant. As you know me, I am not afraid to discuss anything Islamic. Besides I commended the opening of this thread. At least it will erase the stagnant theory of Female being created from Male's rib and other fallacy derived from it like: marrying a good wife means you have found your lost rib, and that women are men's subject etc.

# Observe: The hadith says:

"Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “I enjoin you to treat women well, for the woman was created from a rib and the most curved part of the rib is its uppermost part. If you try to straighten it you will break it, but if you leave it as it is it will remain curved. So be good to women.”

Source: Sahih Bukhari 3153, Sahih Muslim 1468"

# Wallahi this hadith is more metaphorical than its being literal as literalist want us to believe. The underlined parts give the true message of the whole rib metaphor. You will agree with me there is nothing stopping Nabi giving the command of treating women well straight away than using metaphor. However the beauty of every language is its figure of speech since it usually lay more emphasis on the real message. Yoruba people will say "Obinrin nkan elegé Ni wan o, erora se pelu wan o (women are delicate thing, deal with them gently). Some will even say "eyin Ni obinrin (women are egg)". Yoruba will even say, "Eyin l'òrò, toba toba tibo sile kose kó mó (your word is egg, once it drops to the ground, you cannot collect it back)".

# Only Salafi/Wahabi take nearly everything in the Quran and ahadith to be literal. I don't.

Empiree:
^
I respect opinions of others than Tafsir Ibn Kathir as well. I just believe that his is too specific and I have no problem with it. After all, the same clay Hawwa made of MUST have touched that of Adam.

# Whichever way it is, Quran does not categorically suggest either i.e rib or clay.

# If we follow the rib story, are we talking in the direction of "Evolution?"

Albaqir has pointed out some reasons I don't follow the rib story.

I would like to share something which I believe could be beneficial. I have read a couple of tafsirs on this ayah, Tafsir At-Tabariy, Tafsir At-Thaalaby, Tafsir, At-Thawry, and Tafsir Ar-Raazi. These tafsir establishes the fact that “nafs wahidah” means Adam (AS) and “Zawjaha” means Eve.

I would have quoted Tafsir At-Tabariy, especially, the narrations that backs the fact that “nafs wahidah” means Adam (AS) as well as “zawajaha” means Eve but Tafsir Ar-Raazi by Muhammad bin Imran bin Al-Husain Ar-Raaziy As-Shaffiyy was quite interesting in his explanation because he brought the two views.

He said: “When it is said, “how is it possible that the whole creation was from just one person even when that person is small (i.e compared to the number of creation)”

We say: “Allah (SWT) had already explained what this means, because Eve was created after Adam (AS), thereafter, from their (sperm and egg) their children were created and thus continuous. Hence, attributing all (human (creation to Adam (AS) is conceivable.”

Also Imam Ar-Raaziy states, “ The Muslims agree that what was intended with “nafs wahidah” as used in this ayah means Adam (AS), [/b]however, the feminine form “wahidah” used is as a result of the word “nafs” (which is feminine), an example of this, is Allah’s statement: “qala aqatalta nafsan zakiyyatan bighayri nafsin” (18:74)….”

From the above submission, it is quite easy to understand why “nafs wahidah” is understood by scholars to mean Adam (AS). And this is the view of the majority of Muslims.

Imam Ar-Raazi continued with respect to the following statement “wa khalaqa minha zawjaha”

“[b]What was intended with “zawj” here is Eve; there are two views with respect to the existence of Eve being created from Adam (AS).

The first, which the majority (of Muslims) are on, is that when Allah created Adam, he was made to sleep, and Eve was created from a rib among his left ribs, he saw her when he woke up and loved her, because she was created from part of himself. This was further given credence due to the statement of the Prophet (SAW): “for the woman was created from a rib and the most curved part of the rib is its uppermost part. If you try to straighten it you will break it…”

The second view states: And this is the preferred by Abu Muslim Al-‘asfhaaniy: that what was intended with Allah’s statement “wa khalaqa minha zawjaha” is from the same kind/specie/category just as Allah (SWT) states : "Wallahu jaAAala lakum minanfusikum azwajan" “And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates" (16:72) And His statement “ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim” when He sent among them a Messenger from themselves (3:164), also He says: “Laqad jaakum rasoolun min anfusikum” There has certainly come to you a Messenger from among yourselves. (9:128).

Al-Qaadiy said “the first view is the stronger view, because it puts in order Allah’s statement “khalaqakum min nafsin wahidah”, for if Eve was created in the beginning, then mankind would have been said to be created from “nafsayn” (two nafs) not from “nafs wahidah (one nafs). It is possible to respond to this with the fact that the preposition “min” is that of “ibtida’a al-gaayah (the start of destination), since the beginning of creation started with Adam (AS), then it is correct to say: “khalaqakum min nafsin wahidah”. Also it is established that Allah (SWT) has the power to create Adam (AS) from dust, Allah (SWT) also has the power to create Eve from dust, and if this is the case, what would be the need to create her from one of Adam’s rib."

NB: Any mistake above would be from my translation

If we look at the narrative of the Qur’an with respect to the creation of Adam (AS), we would know that Adam (AS) was the first human to be created, and how he was created was established, from dust, life blown into him etc. But Eve, we do not have any information that we can hold on to which would give credence to the fact that she was also created like Adam (AS). If there is any such verse or authentic narration, please share, if not, we would only be speculating. On the other hand, we do have authentic narration and statements from the righteous predecessors that Eve was created from Adam’s (AS) rib. I would like also to state that isn’t it a wonderful coincidence that the Prophet (SAW) would use rib metaphorically, when the belief that Eve was created from Adam’s (AS) rib was already known, especially among the people of the book?!

If we go into a little bit of biology, we know that the male is always responsible for the sex of the child, males can either donate the X or Y chromosome, while the female only has the X chromosome, X chromosome representing females, and Y chromosome representing male, so we can even say, till now, the male is still capable of having both the female and male chromosome (within him), which would perfectly make sense to state that the creation of the female was from the male!

Lastly, I still strongly say, this shouldn’t be an issue, there happens to be no need to be confused or be bothered.

And Allah (SWT) knows best!

sino:
I would like to share something which I believe could be beneficial. I have read a couple of tafsirs on this ayah, Tafsir At-Tabariy, Tafsir At-Thaalaby, Tafsir, At-Thawry, and Tafsir Ar-Raazi. These tafsir establishes the fact that “nafs wahidah” means Adam (AS) and “Zawjaha” means Eve.

I would have quoted Tafsir At-Tabariy, especially, the narrations that backs the fact that “nafs wahidah” means Adam (AS) as well as “zawajaha” means Eve but Tafsir Ar-Raazi by Muhammad bin Imran bin Al-Husain Ar-Raaziy As-Shaffiyy was quite interesting in his explanation because he brought the two views.

He said: “When it is said, “how is it possible that the whole creation was from just one person even when that person is small (i.e compared to the number of creation)”

We say: “Allah (SWT) had already explained what this means, because Eve was created after Adam (AS), thereafter, from their (sperm and egg) their children were created and thus continuous. Hence, attributing all (human (creation to Adam (AS) is conceivable.”

Also Imam Ar-Raaziy states, “ The Muslims agree that what was intended with “nafs wahidah” as used in this ayah means Adam (AS), [/b]however, the feminine form “wahidah” used is as a result of the word “nafs” (which is feminine), an example of this, is Allah’s statement: “qala aqatalta nafsan zakiyyatan bighayri nafsin” (18:74)….”

From the above submission, it is quite easy to understand why “nafs wahidah” is understood by scholars to mean Adam (AS). And this is the view of the majority of Muslims.

Imam Ar-Raazi continued with respect to the following statement “wa khalaqa minha zawjaha”

“[b]What was intended with “zawj” here is Eve; there are two views with respect to the existence of Eve being created from Adam (AS).

The first, which the majority (of Muslims) are on, is that when Allah created Adam, he was made to sleep, and Eve was created from a rib among his left ribs, he saw her when he woke up and loved her, because she was created from part of himself. This was further given credence due to the statement of the Prophet (SAW): “for the woman was created from a rib and the most curved part of the rib is its uppermost part. If you try to straighten it you will break it…”

The second view states: And this is the preferred by Abu Muslim Al-‘asfhaaniy: that what was intended with Allah’s statement “wa khalaqa minha zawjaha” is from the same kind/specie/category just as Allah (SWT) states : "Wallahu jaAAala lakum minanfusikum azwajan" “And Allah has made for you from yourselves mates" (16:72) And His statement “ith baAAatha feehim rasoolan min anfusihim” when He sent among them a Messenger from themselves (3:164), also He says: “Laqad jaakum rasoolun min anfusikum” There has certainly come to you a Messenger from among yourselves. (9:128).

Al-Qaadiy said “the first view is the stronger view, because it puts in order Allah’s statement “khalaqakum min nafsin wahidah”, for if Eve was created in the beginning, then mankind would have been said to be created from “nafsayn” (two nafs) not from “nafs wahidah (one nafs). It is possible to respond to this with the fact that the preposition “min” is that of “ibtida’a al-gaayah (the start of destination), since the beginning of creation started with Adam (AS), then it is correct to say: “khalaqakum min nafsin wahidah”. Also it is established that Allah (SWT) has the power to create Adam (AS) from dust, Allah (SWT) also has the power to create Eve from dust, and if this is the case, what would be the need to create her from one of Adam’s rib."

NB: Any mistake above would be from my translation

If we look at the narrative of the Qur’an with respect to the creation of Adam (AS), we would know that Adam (AS) was the first human to be created, and how he was created was established, from dust, life blown into him etc. But Eve, we do not have any information that we can hold on to which would give credence to the fact that she was also created like Adam (AS). If there is any such verse or authentic narration, please share, if not, we would only be speculating. On the other hand, we do have authentic narration and statements from the righteous predecessors that Eve was created from Adam’s (AS) rib. I would like also to state that isn’t it a wonderful coincidence that the Prophet (SAW) would use rib metaphorically, when the belief that Eve was created from Adam’s (AS) rib was already known, especially among the people of the book?!

If we go into a little bit of biology, we know that the male is always responsible for the sex of the child, males can either donate the X or Y chromosome, while the female only has the X chromosome, X chromosome representing females, and Y chromosome representing male, so we can even say, till now, the male is still capable of having both the female and male chromosome (within him), which would perfectly make sense to state that the creation of the female was from the male!

Lastly, I still strongly say, this shouldn’t be an issue, there happens to be no need to be confused or be bothered.

And Allah (SWT) knows best!

Jazakallahu Khiran

Learnt from this.

Contact17:


Jazakallahu Khiran

Learnt from this.

Wa anti, fa jazakillah khayran

Alhamdulilah.

Using the biology XY chromosome sex determination.

While the XY analogy make sense to the creation of humanity, it doesn't flow with Eve created from Adam.

Male owns the Y, while female owns the X which means Adam must have had a mother for him to retain the X(Y) if we assumed he had XY but since there are no parents as he was the first man, it will make more sense if we assume Adam had only Y and Eve had only X then along the ages XY, XX came up during procreation.

X is inherited from the mother and the Y from the father. Female is XX meaning a X is inherited from her mother and an X is inherited from his mother.

It is very possible for Allah to put both X and Y in Adam but this is science it has to go with scientific theories, infact it was said that early men had only Y chromosome-Adam and female had Mitochondrial Eve.

And secondly, Mammals also carries XY chromosome, are animals creation like that of Adam-like? Only Allah knows.

Am not saying all these are not possible by Allah(SWT) but since the Quran didn't mention any of this all i can accept is Adam and Eve were both created from a single nafs but I can still make use of the rib story tho.

tintingz:
Using the biology XY chromosome sex determination.

While the XY analogy make sense to the creation of humanity, it doesn't flow with Eve created from Adam.

Male owns the Y, while female owns the X which means Adam must have had a mother for him to retain the X(Y) if we assumed he had XY but since there are no parents as he was the first man, it will make more sense if we assume Adam had only Y and Eve had only X then along the ages XY, XX came up during procreation.

X is inherited from the mother and the Y from the father. Female is XX meaning a X is inherited from her mother and an X is inherited from his mother.

It is very possible for Allah to put both X and Y in Adam but this is science it has to go with scientific theories, infact it was said that early men had only Y chromosome-Adam and female had Mitochondrial Eve.

And secondly, Mammals also carries XY chromosome, are animals creation like that of Adam-like? Only Allah knows.

Am not saying all these are not possible by Allah(SWT) but since the Quran didn't mention any of this all i can accept is Adam and Eve were both created from a single nafs but I can still make use of the rib story tho.

I acknowledge your views dear brother, as I said, I just wanted to use "little" biology...Also, If we are to go with Adam (AS) having only Y and Eve only X, then their children would only be males, i.e Adam (AS) donates his Y and Eve X, given XY continuously, but if Allah (SWT) had incorporated the two chromosomes in Adam from creation, then no need to be thinking of parents for Adam (AS), Allah (SWT) created him and equipped him with all the necessary genetics to procreate, especially, after Eve was created...The evolutionary investigations are full of gaps, as well as in contrast with the Qur'an. They shouldn't be relied upon, in fact they may not be referring to the Adam and Eve which Allah (SWT) describes in the Qur'an.

With regards to Mammals and other Animals, Allah (SWT) had said:

"And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember."

(Q 51:49)

This above verse also can be analyzed to put in proper context, but is another issue entirely.

And Allah knows best.

sino:


I acknowledge your views dear brother, as I said, I just wanted to use "little" biology...Also, If we are to go with Adam (AS) having only Y and Eve only X, then their children would only be males, i.e Adam (AS) donates his Y and Eve X, given XY continuously, but if Allah (SWT) had incorporated the two chromosomes in Adam from creation, then no need to be thinking of parents for Adam (AS), Allah (SWT) created him and equipped him with all the necessary genetics to procreate, especially, after Eve was created...The evolutionary investigations are full of gaps, as well as in contrast with the Qur'an. They shouldn't be relied upon, in fact they may not be referring to the Adam and Eve which Allah (SWT) describes in the Qur'an.

With regards to Mammals and other Animals, Allah (SWT) had said:

"And of all things We created two mates; perhaps you will remember."

(Q 51:49)

This above verse also can be analyzed to put in proper context, but is another issue entirely.

And Allah knows best.

@bolded, I mentioned something scientists have shown about the early men having only Y-Chromosomal-Adam and early women having only Mitochondrial-Eve

If we're to follow the XY chromosome relating it to human creation in the Quran then we have to follow the evolutionary theories I mentioned above(scientists also discovered XXY chromosome) and it can make more sense if we say Adam and Eve were created alike from a single soul not from one another, if you want to stick to Eve coming out from Adam or his rib there is no problem as there are different opinions.

Its nice discussing biology with you.

I think we shouldn't go deep into science

tintingz:
@bolded, I mentioned something scientists have shown about the early men having only Y-Chromosomal-Adam and early women having only Mitochondrial-Eve

If we're to follow the XY chromosome relating it to human creation in the Quran then we have to follow the evolutionary theories I mentioned above(scientists also discovered XXY chromosome) and it can make more sense if we say Adam and Eve were created alike from a single soul not from one another, if you want to stick to Eve coming out from Adam or his rib there is no problem as there are different opinions.

If you will, can you please quote where scientist show that early men had only Y-Chromosome as well as Females mt-Eve?! I am having difficulty understanding this.

tintingz:

It is nice discussing biology with you.

Same here, the reason I am still interested to continue....

sino:


If you will, can you please quote where scientist show that early men had only Y-Chromosome as well as Females mt-Eve?! I am having difficulty understanding this.

OK.

For Male:

Y-chromosomal Adam

In human genetics, the Y-chromosomal Adam or Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor (YMRCA) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all currently living people are descended patrilineally. The title of "Y-chromosomal Adam" is not permanently fixed to a single individual, and shifts over time as human inheritance and our knowledge of human ancestry changes. The current Y-chromosomal Adam is estimated to have lived 200,000 to 300,000 years ago.

The term YMRCA reflects the fact that the Y chromosomes of all currently living males are directly derived from the Y chromosome of this remote ancestor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

For Female:

Mitochondrial Eve

In human genetics, the Mitochondrial Eve is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living humans. This is the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, in an unbroken line, on their mother’s side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one woman, who is estimated to have lived approximately 100,000–200,000 years ago. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally (but see paternal mtDNA transmission) is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition, differing only by the mutations that over generations have occurred in the germ cell mtDNA since the conception of the original "Mitochondrial Eve".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

I hope its clear...?

Same here, the reason I am still interested to continue....

Alright.

*****

Still Following & Learning

Getting Interesting Than I previously Thought.......

Didn't Know Tingtinz Is This Meticulous

You Must Have Been Pondering For Long Time How Hawwa Could Be From Adam(as)

Must Be Painstaking ummmm?

tintingz:
OK.

For Male:

Y-chromosomal Adam

In human genetics, the Y-chromosomal Adam or Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor (YMRCA) is the most recent common ancestor (MRCA) from whom all currently living people are descended patrilineally. The title of "Y-chromosomal Adam" is not permanently fixed to a single individual, and shifts over time as human inheritance and our knowledge of human ancestry changes. The current Y-chromosomal Adam is estimated to have lived 200,000 to 300,000 years ago.

The term YMRCA reflects the fact that the Y chromosomes of all currently living males are directly derived from the Y chromosome of this remote ancestor.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-chromosomal_Adam

For Female:

Mitochondrial Eve

In human genetics, the Mitochondrial Eve is the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living humans. This is the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, in an unbroken line, on their mother’s side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one woman, who is estimated to have lived approximately 100,000–200,000 years ago. Because all mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) generally (but see paternal mtDNA transmission) is passed from mother to offspring without recombination, all mtDNA in every living person is directly descended from hers by definition, differing only by the mutations that over generations have occurred in the germ cell mtDNA since the conception of the original "Mitochondrial Eve".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve

I hope its clear...?


Alright.

Okay, thank you for quoting, but I do not think the information above proves that the Y chromosomal Adam had only the Y chromosome, as well as the mt Eve. My understanding with regards to the above is the trace of the donor Y chromosome responsible for the present male sex to what is termed "Y chromosomal Adam". In fact they stated that this Y chromosomal Adam was not the only male during this period, it is not permanently fixed to an individual and would change depending on discovery of new ancestry.

The Y chromosome is said to be undergoing evolutionary deterioration, its gene which was as large as the X chromosome several generations ago is now dwindling.Source I believe this could be one of the pointers to a reducing male population compared to the females...The fact still remains that during reproduction, the male has the capacity to donate either a Y or X chromosome.

Determining the origin of the sex would require we go back to the beginning of evolution, especially the point where sex differentiation occurred. This is a problematic aspect for the evolutionists, and this is an example of the gaps I had talked about. There are theories proposed, but not verified or accurate. Even at that, it would still mean that a particular cell/organism, had both X and Y chromosomes, and then we would ask, which came first, the male or the female?! I don't know if you do have the answers bro.

I do not think Science have the answers you seek, be that as it may, I wouldn't fault your choice, sticking to both Adam and Eve were created from one nafs, but I would always go with the what the majority of Muslims are on, i.e, nafs wahidah means Adam (AS), and Zawjaha means Eve, and Eve was created from Adam (AS), whether from the rib or body, doesn't matter.

sino:

Okay, thank you for quoting, but I do not think the information above proves that the Y chromosomal Adam had only the Y chromosome, as well as the mt Eve. My understanding with regards to the above is the trace of the donor Y chromosome responsible for the present male sex to what is termed "Y chromosomal Adam". In fact they stated that this Y chromosomal Adam was not the only male during this period, it is not permanently fixed to an individual and would change depending on discovery of new ancestry.

You're welcome.

There is no record or scientific theories that shows early men(ancestors) having XY chromosome because during those stages humans were still evolving, then along the centuries mutation occured and sex chromosome recombined during procreation.

The only genetic scientist can trace back as the father and mother of humans is the Y-chromosomal-Adam and Mitochondrial-Eve.

And yes there are other men years back that had Y chromosome and other genes which died out with their linage, there was only one man his linage can be traced which scientist called the science Adam and there is something called pre-adamite(a believe that people existed before adam).

And science as shown that it is only women that donate mitochondrial Eve to thier children years back.

The Y chromosome is passed down identically from father to son, so mutations, or point changes, in the male sex chromosome can trace the male line back to the father of all humans. By contrast, DNA from the mitochondria, the energy powerhouse of the cell, is carried inside the egg, so only women pass it on to their children. The DNA hidden inside mitochondria, therefore, can reveal the maternal lineage to an ancient Eve.

But over time, the male chromosome gets bloated with duplicated, jumbled-up stretches of DNA, said study co-author Carlos Bustamante, a geneticist at Stanford University in California.
http://www.livescience.com/38613-genetic-adam-and-eve-uncovered.html

We can see in above research that mutation, chromosome recombination also occurred.

The Y chromosome is said to be undergoing evolutionary deterioration, its gene which was as large as the X chromosome several generations ago is now dwindling.Source I believe this could be one of the pointers to a reducing male population compared to the females...The fact still remains that during reproduction, the male has the capacity to donate either a Y or X chromosome.

Yes, it was said the Y chromosome shrinked and the X chromosome recombined, something like chromosomal cross over.

Determining the origin of the sex would require we go back to the beginning of evolution, especially the point where sex differentiation occurred. This is a problematic aspect for the evolutionists, and this is an example of the gaps I had talked about. There are theories proposed, but not verified or accurate. Even at that, it would still mean that a particular cell/organism, had both X and Y chromosomes, and then we would ask, which came first, the male or the female?! I don't know if you do have the answers bro.

I understand you here, but there is no scientific record or discovery that a particular early homo sapiens had both X and Y chromosome.

I do not think Science have the answers you seek, be that as it may, I wouldn't fault your choice, sticking to both Adam and Eve were created from one nafs, but I would always go with the what the majority of Muslims are on, i.e, nafs wahidah means Adam (AS), and Zawjaha means Eve, and Eve was created from Adam (AS), whether from the rib or body, doesn't matter.

Scientist were the one that discovered the X and Y chromosome and we all believed in it.

And @bolded, Al.baqir said something about the interpretations of those words.

Empiree:
Still Following & Learning

Getting Interesting Than I previously Thought.......

Didn't Know Tingtinz Is This Meticulous

You Must Have Been Pondering For Long Time How Hawwa Could Be From Adam(as)

Must Be Painstaking ummmm?

Lol, I love doing research.

tintingz:
You're welcome.

There is no record or scientific theories that shows early men(ancestors) having XY chromosome because during those stages humans were still evolving, then along the centuries mutation occured and sex chromosome recombined during procreation.

Bro, the fact is that Humans have diploid chromosomes, for reproduction; meiosis occurs given rise to haploid chromosome which would be donated to fuse with the haploid donated from the partner to give rise to a new diploid individual. i.e humans, be it ancient or new had always been diploid

I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but evolution in terms of sex differentiation had already been completed before the advent of humans (according to evolutionist), only if you want us to believe that humans had the ability to reproduce asexually! The reason why I stated that tracing the origin of sex differentiation would have to go back to simpler organisms.

tintingz:

The only genetic scientist can trace back as the father and mother of humans is the Y-chromosomal-Adam and Mitochondrial-Eve.

And yes there are other men years back that had Y chromosome and other genes which died out with their linage, there was only one man his linage can be traced which scientist called the science Adam and there is something called pre-adamite(a believe that people existed before adam).

And science as shown that it is only women that donate mitochondrial Eve to thier children years back.

The Y chromosome is passed down identically from father to son, so mutations, or point changes, in the male sex chromosome can trace the male line back to the father of all humans. By contrast, DNA from the mitochondria, the energy powerhouse of the cell, is carried inside the egg, so only women pass it on to their children. The DNA hidden inside mitochondria, therefore, can reveal the maternal lineage to an ancient Eve.

But over time, the male chromosome gets bloated with duplicated, jumbled-up stretches of DNA, said study co-author Carlos Bustamante, a geneticist at Stanford University in California.
http://www.livescience.com/38613-genetic-adam-and-eve-uncovered.html

We can see in above research that mutation, chromosome recombination also occurred.

Indeed, the above still proves that the male is the determinant of the sex of the child, and the fact that we can trace the paternal and maternal lineage of a male child to a Y chromosomal Adam and a mt Eve. If you read carefully, the quote states clearly of tracing the male line, while in regards to mt Eve, it only states “only women pass it on to their children” i.e either male or female. The reason why we have to go into the mitochondrial DNA rather than the X chromosome donated by the female is the fact that only the female parent is responsible for this in their offspring, unlike the X chromosome which is present in both the male and female.

I had stated earlier also, if we go with the idea that ancient Adam had only Y chromosome, then how did he get female children?!

tintingz:

Yes, it was said the Y chromosome shrinked and the X chromosome recombined, something like chromosomal cross over.

I understand you here, but there is no scientific record or discovery that a particular early homo sapiens had both X and Y chromosome.

Scientist were the one that discovered the X and Y chromosome and we all believed in it.

You do not need to be told brother, humans and other mammals as well as other classes of animals, are diploid. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, of which 22 are autosomal and 1 sex chromosome called gamete. As I asked earlier, were humans or the ancient humans said to have reproduced asexually?! Again the reports says there were other males and females during this period, definitely, sexual reproduction of humans as we know it, had been established. You do not need anyone to tell you that these humans are carrying a pair of chromosomes, either XY for male, or XX for the female.

tintingz:

And @bolded, Al.baqir said something about the interpretations of those words.

I had presented the two views from tafsir Ar Raazi, and the arguments for and against. I hope you did find it useful.

sino:


Bro, the fact is that Humans have diploid chromosomes, for reproduction; meiosis occurs given rise to haploid chromosome which would be donated to fuse with the haploid donated from the partner to give rise to a new diploid individual. i.e humans, be it ancient or new had always been diploid

Sir... Diploid, Haploid, ploidy etc are all cells in humans reproduction system, you have not shown any scientific theories that says our ancestors had both X&Y chromosome.

I don’t know where you are getting your information from, but evolution in terms of sex differentiation had already been completed before the advent of humans (according to evolutionist), only if you want us to believe that humans had the ability to reproduce asexually! The reason why I stated that tracing the origin of sex differentiation would have to go back to simpler organisms.

Didn't mutation and recombination occur?

Am not talking about sex differentiation which is physical am still talking about mutation and recombination that occurs. Do you know evolutionary stages of the homo sapiens? Maybe you should read more on evolution of the Y chromosome.

Indeed, the above still proves that the male is the determinant of the sex of the child, and the fact that we can trace the paternal and maternal lineage of a male child to a Y chromosomal Adam and a mt Eve. If you read carefully, the quote states clearly of tracing the male line, while in regards to mt Eve, it only states “only women pass it on to their children” i.e either male or female. The reason why we have to go into the mitochondrial DNA rather than the X chromosome donated by the female is the fact that only the female parent is responsible for this in their offspring, unlike the X chromosome which is present in both the male and female.

This shows it was only the females that donate the X chromosome, if we assume Adam had both X and Y chromosome then logicaly and scientifically Adam must have had a mother(parents) but science has shown that the early man had only Y chromosome, i have not read where scientist said science Adam(the father of humans) had both XY chromosome.

I had stated earlier also, if we go with the idea that ancient Adam had only Y chromosome, then how did he get female children?!

I have explained that about mutation and recombination.

If we read back about Acient and science Adam his first two children were male.

You do not need to be told brother, humans and other mammals as well as other classes of animals, are diploid. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, of which 22 are autosomal and 1 sex chromosome called gamete. As I asked earlier, were humans or the ancient humans said to have reproduced asexually?! Again the reports says there were other males and females during this period, definitely, sexual reproduction of humans as we know it, had been established. You do not need anyone to tell you that these humans are carrying a pair of chromosomes, either XY for male, or XX for the female.

I have not read where it says the early men had both X and Y chromosome.

Like have said earlier in the post I said something about pre-adamite(a believe that humans existed before Adam).

The only genetic science were able to trace back was Adam, other human genetic died out with their linage.

Y chromosome was the only link to all humanity.

I had presented the two views from tafsir Ar Raazi, and the arguments for and against. I hope you did find it useful.

Alright.

tintingz:
Sir... Diploid, Haploid, ploidy etc are all cells in humans reproduction system, you have not shown any scientific theories that says our ancestors had both X&Y chromosome.

Didn't mutation and recombination occur?

Am not talking about sex differentiation which is physical am still talking about mutation and recombination that occurs. Do you know evolutionary stages of the homo sapiens? Maybe you should read more on evolution of the Y chromosome.

This shows it was only the females that donate the X chromosome, if we assume Adam had both X and Y chromosome then logicaly and scientifically Adam must have had a mother(parents) but science has shown that the early man had only Y chromosome, i have not read where scientist said science Adam(the father of humans) had both XY chromosome.

I have explained that about mutation and recombination.

If we read back about Acient and science Adam his first two children were male.



I have not read where it says the early men had both X and Y chromosome.

Like have said earlier in the post I said something about pre-adamite(a believe that humans existed before Adam).

The only genetic science were able to trace back was Adam, other human genetic died out with their linage.

Y chromosome was the only link to all humanity.


Alright.

Firstly, I had already stated that the issue of sex is a major problem for the evolutionist, they propose theories which are not verifiable, you shouldn't trust them so much.

Secondly, are you in the biological sciences?! You are claiming that humans were haploid, this statement is problematic, it would be impossible for such a multicellular and complex organism like a man to be haploid. Again, the mitochondrial DNA from the mother is not the same as the X chromosome. They are located in different places in the cell. Although you are right that if the said Adam had both X and Y chromosomes, then it means that he had a parent. Well if we go with the speculations of the evolutionists, indeed the Y Chromosomal Adam would have parents, definitely the ones he evolved from. Bro, this would just be based on unsubstantiated hypothesis and speculations. I don't know which scientist proposed the mutations and recombination that gave rise to the diploid, the XY and XX chromosomes in humans, care to share?!

Thirdly, here is something for you to peruse:

The road to sex

In trying to understand how this transition occurred, most scientists thought that meiosis and sex evolved together, as a package. But Adam Wilkins of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom and Robin Holliday of the Australian Academy of Sciences have recently argued that some key steps in meiosis—namely, the reduction of diploid cells into haploids—took place long before fullblown sex existed. “It turns the conventional thinking on its head,” [/b]says Wilkins.

Wilkins and Holliday's scenario starts with the ballooning of the genomes of the early, [b]asexual eukaryotes. Although the most ancient single-celled, amoebalike creatures were probably haploid, like modern bacteria, today the eukaryote genome can be thousands of times the size of a bacterial one, and many studies suggest that it was inflated billions of years ago by invading viruslike segments of DNA called mobile elements.

At first, these early eukaryotes reproduced simply by duplicating their giant haploid genomes and dividing. But at some point, Wilkins and Holliday propose, diploid cells arose. Two haploid cells might have fused, for example, or a cell may have failed to divide after duplicating its DNA. Today, some fungi pass through these kinds of diploid stages.

The combination of a big genome and a new diploid stage raised the risk that eukaryotes would make fatal mistakes while copying their DNA. A chromosome can potentially join any other chromosome wherever they share similar sequences. It's safe for this to happen between homologous chromosomes, because they will swap versions of the same genes during recombination. But when one chromosome recombines with a nonhomologous chromosome, “that leads to terrible problems,” says Wilkins. Each chromosome donates some of its genes but doesn't get the same genes back. A cell that inherits one of these deficient chromosomes may die.

Wilkins and Holliday argue that this risk drove the evolution of a new defense. In one or more lineages of early eukaryotes, homologous chromosomes began to line up tightly with one another before cells divided. Now recombination could take place safely. If a chromosome swapped some of its genes with another chromosome, it would get versions of the same genes back. Meiosis thus evolved as a way to reduce the damage from mismatched recombinations.

It would take millions of years more before eukaryotes shifted from a mostly haploid existence to spending most of their life cycle as diploids (as we do) and only sometimes producing the haploid cells necessary today for sexual reproduction. That shift to a sexual life cycle, however, still had to overcome the twofold cost of sex.



http://science.sciencemag.org/content/324/5932/1254.full

So I ask again, did humans reproduced asexually?! when the ancestral male and female cohabit, what happened?! what was their gametes carrying?! did they undergo meiosis?! did their offspring carry diploid or haploid chromosome?! When did humans developed (or evolved) the diploid chromosome?!

Geez..........this is getting deeper and becoming more nd more adult content . VIEW DISCRETION ADVISED. Loving it.

Kontinu....

****

sino:

Firstly, I had already stated that the issue of sex is a major problem for the evolutionist, they propose theories which are not verifiable, you shouldn't trust them so much.

I know sir, atleast they enlighten us about human reproduction.

Secondly, are you in the biological sciences?! You are claiming that humans were haploid, this statement is problematic, it would be impossible for such a multicellular and complex organism like a man to be haploid.

You are yet to show me where science said the first man on earth carried both X and Y chromosome.

Again, the mitochondrial DNA from the mother is not the same as the X chromosome. They are located in different places in the cell.

Like have said there are other genes that existed and died out with their linage.

Yes mitochondrial might not be the same as X chromosome but i have stated what i have read about the early woman genetic.

Please can you show me the genetic of the first woman on earth?

Although you are right that if the said Adam had both X and Y chromosomes, then it means that he had a parent. Well if we go with the speculations of the evolutionists, indeed the Y Chromosomal Adam would have parents, definitely the ones he evolved from. Bro, this would just be based on unsubstantiated hypothesis and speculations. I don't know which scientist proposed the mutations and recombination that gave rise to the diploid, the XY and XX chromosomes in humans, care to share?!

No, the Y chromosomal Adam must have started in one person which scientists called the science Adam.


To understand why the Y chromosome is the way it is, one needs to know a little about its evolutionary history. The evolution of our modern Y chromosome hinges on recombination, the cellular process in which pairs of chromosomes swap corresponding bits of their DNA with one another. Recombination is what gives chromosomes variety and what makes, for example, the version of chromosome 18 that you inherited from your mother not an exact copy of your maternal grandmother's or grandfather's but a combination of them both.

One hundred and eighty million years ago, the Y chromosome of placental mammals was the same as our X chromosome, and sex was determined by other means, perhaps by environmental triggers such as temperature (as is the case in some turtles, lizards, and snakes today). These two proto-sex-chromosomes underwent recombination in the same way that our other chromosomes do. Then a male-determining gene originated on the would-be Y, and the two chromosomes started to diverge from one another. Once the Y started to become specialized for male genes, recombination between the X and Y became detrimental for individuals because the process sometimes mixed up the sex-determining genes.
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/140513_ychromosome

The above theory shows that the chromosome of the past is different from today.

Thirdly, here is something for you to peruse:

The road to sex

In trying to understand how this transition occurred, most scientists thought that meiosis and sex evolved together, as a package. But Adam Wilkins of the University of Cambridge in the United Kingdom and Robin Holliday of the Australian Academy of Sciences have recently argued that some key steps in meiosis—namely, the reduction of diploid cells into haploids—took place long before fullblown sex existed. “It turns the conventional thinking on its head,” [/b]says Wilkins.

Wilkins and Holliday's scenario starts with the ballooning of the genomes of the early, [b]asexual eukaryotes. Although the most ancient single-celled, amoebalike creatures were probably haploid, like modern bacteria, today the eukaryote genome can be thousands of times the size of a bacterial one, and many studies suggest that it was inflated billions of years ago by invading viruslike segments of DNA called mobile elements.

At first, these early eukaryotes reproduced simply by duplicating their giant haploid genomes and dividing. But at some point, Wilkins and Holliday propose, diploid cells arose. Two haploid cells might have fused, for example, or a cell may have failed to divide after duplicating its DNA. Today, some fungi pass through these kinds of diploid stages.

The combination of a big genome and a new diploid stage raised the risk that eukaryotes would make fatal mistakes while copying their DNA. A chromosome can potentially join any other chromosome wherever they share similar sequences. It's safe for this to happen between homologous chromosomes, because they will swap versions of the same genes during recombination. But when one chromosome recombines with a nonhomologous chromosome, “that leads to terrible problems,” says Wilkins. Each chromosome donates some of its genes but doesn't get the same genes back. A cell that inherits one of these deficient chromosomes may die.

Wilkins and Holliday argue that this risk drove the evolution of a new defense. In one or more lineages of early eukaryotes, homologous chromosomes began to line up tightly with one another before cells divided. Now recombination could take place safely. If a chromosome swapped some of its genes with another chromosome, it would get versions of the same genes back. Meiosis thus evolved as a way to reduce the damage from mismatched recombinations.

It would take millions of years more before eukaryotes shifted from a mostly haploid existence to spending most of their life cycle as diploids (as we do) and only sometimes producing the haploid cells necessary today for sexual reproduction. That shift to a sexual life cycle, however, still had to overcome the twofold cost of sex.



http://science.sciencemag.org/content/324/5932/1254.full

Did all these happen in one night?

So I ask again, did humans reproduced asexually?!

No

when the ancestral male and female cohabit, what happened?!

Mutation occurs and chromosome recombine given birth to babies of different gender.

what was their gametes carrying?! did they undergo meiosis?!

Yes, it takes processes and stages.

did their offspring carry diploid or haploid chromosome?!

Diploid, since thier parents undergo sexual reproduction.

When did humans developed (or evolved) the diploid chromosome?!

I don't know, all I know is everything pass through stages that's why it called evolution.

@tintingz

You cannot try to explain the origin of man with evolution, and then neglect the species in which man is said to have evolved from, more so, if the said ancestral Adam and Eve science is talking about are already fully formed, with reproductive organs, then it makes no sense arguing about having just one sex chromosome. The reason I had to ask whether humans had any record of reproducing asexually. I would love to ask you, how did the ancestral male, Y chromosomal Adam, and female, mitochondrial DNA Eve came into existence?! Who did science say were their ancestors?! Were they also distinguished as male and female?! If you want to talk evolution and science, you can’t cherry pick; you should be ready to follow through with scientists’ hypotheses.

Again the nomenclature of Y and X chromosomes, are just what they are, labels to identify each distinct chromosome. Mutation and recombination of the chromosomes, would not have happened in this ancestral Y chromosomal Adam, and ancestral Eve, we have already a fully formed distinguished male and female, in fact, it is said that there were other males and other females, are you trying to tell me that those males and females where carrying other forms of chromosomes and they are still humans?!

To your request for me to show you where science says the first man carried both X and Y chromosome, fortunately, your quote supports my arguments,

"One hundred and eighty million years ago, the Y chromosome of placental mammals was the same as our X chromosome, and sex was determined by other means, perhaps by environmental triggers such as temperature (as is the case in some turtles, lizards, and snakes today). These two proto-sex-chromosomes underwent recombination in the same way that our other chromosomes do. Then a male-determining gene originated on the would-be Y, and the two chromosomes started to diverge from one another. Once the Y started to become specialized for male genes, recombination between the X and Y became detrimental for individuals because the process sometimes mixed up the sex-determining genes."

If you read the bold above carefully, you would see that the Y chromosome was the same as our X chromosome, meaning the X and Y chromosome, at some point were the same, and sex was determined by other means, the word perhaps (in bold) suggest a speculation, unsubstantiated and unverified.

Now the TWO proto-sex-chromosomes (i.e Y and X, although similar), underwent recombination, just as other chromosomes do. Then the gene, which should not be confused with the Y chromosome, that determines male, was established on the Y chromosome, which eventually made recombination between the chromosomes problematic.

From the site you quoted from, it then continued:

"Ultimately, this process resulted in Y chromosomes that barely recombined with the Xs at all—just a little near the tips of the chromosomes, enough to keep cell division orderly, but not enough to move genes bits from one chromosome to the other. Of course, in females (bearers of two X chromosomes), the Xs could still recombine with another X. It was only in males that repressed recombination was advantageous. This innovation worked well for keeping sex determination straight, but it also had a detrimental side effect for the integrity of the Y chromosome."

Here it says how the Y and X chromosomes are associated in males, establishing order and restriction of gene transfer and continuous sex determination.

I hope you can see that there were two sex chromosomes 180 million years ago. This would also answer how the females were having two X chromosomes, that can exchange genes, only in the males that repressed the recombination between X and Y, due to that fact that the male-determining gene is present on it.

Again with this facts, then if the Ancestral Adam and Eve had just Y and X respectively, then their offspring would only be male. I didn't want to go back to discussing haploid and diploid, there are so many unsubstantiated hypotheses, there are large dark areas which science have not been able to answer and clarify.

This should put this argument to rest bro.