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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? (3290 Views)
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Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 10:20am On Oct 09, 2016 |
Seun: Good points - so basically we are one of the numerous accidental effects of a random chaotic uncharted cosmic dance? 1 Like |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by byteHead(m): 10:44am On Oct 09, 2016 |
johnydon22: I mean that d law of gravity is fixed anywhere in d universe ie two objects will attract each other with a force that is proportional to their mases and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Seun(m): 11:56am On Oct 09, 2016 |
johnydon22:Yes. Everything we know at this point in time suggests it. We are lucky to exist, and should make the most of it, as cloudgoddess once pointed out. The view that nature was made for man is as absurd as the view that the United Kingdom was made for little Prince George. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by raphieMontella: 12:00pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
DoctorAlien:researches are on going.. Weve found microbes and organic molecules in space... Even in our system..we have at least three possible place for bacterial life.. Europa,titan,and another moon of saturn..euca...someting like that |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by raphieMontella: 12:01pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
4kings:bro..longest! Howdy? |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by raphieMontella: 12:01pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
byteHead:the earth ''day'' has been increasing...the earth is slowinng down... |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by ValentineMary(m): 12:06pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
byteHead:Does this law exist in the quantum world ? |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by herald9: 12:10pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
I used to be an ardent believer of intelligent design, but the many catastrophes that have been ravaging the earth from time immemorial and even recently made me shift towards the fence. Nowadays I don't even know what to think anymore. Like, if I was to design a house, I would strive to make it safe that the occupants can sleep with all eyes closed and not fearing the roof caving in or other unforseen mishaps. The safety and durability of the building will give credence to my abilities, qualifications, etc. But otherwise would raise many questions to the latter, and hence, undermines the 'intelligence' in the design. But I think this could be explained away by citing the forces that is at work on the earth - one trying to pull it together and one trying to rip it apart. The tension created in these tug of war-like situation sparks off catastrophes since there's nothing regulating these two forces.... |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by MrPresident1: 12:18pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
Seun: You Seun are a accident of nature? |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by 4kings: 12:22pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
raphieMontella:I dey fine ooo, I've just been busy for a while. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by byteHead(m): 1:14pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
ValentineMary: A very big problem that we face is trying to reconcile general relativity which describes gravitation, and applications to large-scale structures (stars, planets, galaxies), with the demands of quantum mechanics which describe fundamental forces acting on d atomic scale. The conflict between the two halves of physics has been brewing for more than a century. In general relativity, events are continuous and deterministic, meaning that every cause matches up to a specific, local effect. In quantum mechanics, events produced by the interaction of subatomic particles happen in jumps ( quantum leaps), with probabilistic rather than definite outcomes. Quantum rules allow connections forbidden by classical physics. When you try to interpret smooth relativistic laws in a quantum style, or vice versa, things go dreadfully wrong. 1 Like |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by AccidentalGenius: 1:38pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
byteHead: This is brilliant. Thank you. To interprete this mathematically, quantum physics is more of geometric progression. Whereas, general relativity is more of arithmetic progression. 1 Like |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by AccidentalGenius: 2:00pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
I believe nature is indifferent to man's existence. Man adapts to nature, there are some regions on this planet we need to adapt to survive in, some regions we can't survive in. If nature was made for man it would have been perfect, but it isn't. Nature IS. Man is a mere result of several processes of adaptation. One thing I'll also like to point out is, throughout this discussion, we've managed to ignore the animals living around us too. So to say nature was made for man is a mere stroking of man's ego. If all men were to die, nature would still exists. If nature dies, we die. Nature doesn't need man, man needs nature. 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Shiitposter: 7:28pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
raphieMontella: Negligible, its barely noticable. I think what he mention was on a grand (classical) scale. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by dorox(m): 7:52pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
johnydon22:In a previous thread I argued that with perfect information a model can be made that could accurately predict every single event that will take place in the universe far into the future. With such a model, one can accurately predict when and where the next asteroid would hit the earth, or all the storms the earth will experience hundreds of years into the future, or the birth of a new star and the day the star dies. Such a model that can see perfectly into the future will have no random event since the cause of every event would be known and predictable. I see chaos as useful "tools of nature", just like a sharp knife is a useful tool in the hands of an experienced chef, but a dangerous object in the hands of a kid, it is not dangerous by itself, how we interact with it makes it dangerous. We can agree that nature is just right for man to exist otherwise we won't be around to ask the question. Whether or not it was made to accommodate us is a question whose answer depends on our view of whether or not God exist. If we answer yes to the question of whether there is God, then we would see nature as created with the objective of accommodating man. But if we answer no to where God exist, every existence including nature and man becomes accidental. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Seun(m): 8:08pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
MrPresident1:I exist because my parents decided to have kids. Now my life is mine and I can dedicate it to any purpose that I deem worthy. 5 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Nobody: 11:04pm On Oct 09, 2016 |
Good thread @ johnydon22. Sorry I replied late. Nature follows an order inherent to itself. For every indifference nature poses, man has always come out victorious, conquering every pangs of disasters and rage of mother nature. This complex ecosystem has been programmed to withstand every ounce of fury that ravages its entire biosphere, it would seem man was made to adapt to nature. The earth itself was placed beyond the sphere of solar chaos being engulfed in a magnetic field that shields its entire atmosphere from the power of solar radiations. So I would say nature and man are complementary. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Nobody: 12:44pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
To further stress my above deduction, nature would thrive without man. Man was made with the utmost ability to harness nature's power to his own advantage. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 3:31pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
dorox: This is true, there is a pattern that can be devised from every occurence no matter how random - take for instance you fill a cup with tiny balls, place a lid over the cup and shake the cup vigourosly, the balls will randomly be fully shaken inside the cup, hitting the edges of the cup bouncing back and hitting the other. With the behavourial tendency of the balls and cup material, if the motion of these balls are slowed down you can accurately predict the precise movement of a particular ball inside the cup, from it's direction you can predict which part of the cup it will hit next and which direction it will bounce back towards and ultimately the next impact point. There is a predictable tendency in even the most random systems, the only factor required is the consistency of the values.
Humans define ideas on how they affect them. "Danger" is a human idea that defines things that have a negative impact on our well being and going by this definition one can refer to most part of nature as 'Dangerous to us' even though in itself Nature is neither good, dangerous, bad or loving - these are our constructs, and for this fact it is deductable that nature is indifferent to itself of which we are part of.
Fair enough - so what do you think, nature was made for man by God/creator *NB: A creator is not necessarily a God and a God is not necessarily a creator* or is nature indifferent and has an accidental uncharted effect of which man is part of? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 4:19pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
Shiitposter: Don't forget that the so called 'Grand scale' is made of negligible bits brother.. so a minisule change accumulated over time leads to a grand noticeable change.. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Niflheim(m): 4:57pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
@Johnnydon22, Nature was definitely not made for man!!! If it were, then how does one explain all the natural things in Nature that can kill a man? 1.Naturally occuring Radon gas 2.Malaria 3.Hurricanes 4.Molten magma 5.Poisonous snakes 6.Wild apricots 7.Hemlock 8.Floods 9.Meteorite strikes 10.Lightening This is as ridiculous as saying that, "the tape worm found a comfortable home in the 4 year old child's stomach, with enough food and nourishment, so therefore, the child was must have been created to house the tape worm!!!" 3 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 5:19pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
Seun: That you or i exist is a mind buggling reality ruled by a very brain quaking chance because after considering the variables, the chance that you exist is almost impossible. Let me explain. -If your mum and dad did not get together then there is no chance what so ever that someone like you would ever exist. - remember it must take exactly the same Ovum and sperm cells to make the individual that is you, if these were any different the result would have been totally different. Considering in average up to 2million sperms are injected into the vagina in a given ejaculation, only one of these is needed to fertilize the ovum and each other of these sperm cells fusing with the ovum will make a distinct individual. If the ovum was different [even if the sperm remains same] the result would also have been different. An average man makes billions of spermatozoons in his life time, so the odd that the sperm cell that made you would fertilize an ovum is like 1:109 then consider every ovum your mum's ovary would make in her life time, chances that the particular one that made you could have been washed as menstrual blood supposing the timing was off the chance reduces to a mind buggling 0.5:109… Add grand pa, grand ma factors and it even gets slimmer, the more variables you add the slimmer it gets but yet here you are, a rare chance in a humoungous cosmic arena given an opportunity to be even as a cosmic blink. All of us are like grains of sand in a sea shore where only one is needed to be picked, yes there are many grains but one will eventually end up being picked. so we are here in place of billions of others - is there a more definition of rare Chance causality than this? 4 Likes 4 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 7:03pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
lordnicklaus: In order words Man was made to adapt to nature and not nature made for man? |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 7:06pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
Niflheim: I have seen instances of "Air bags" in cars responsible for the death of the car passangers, does this then mean 'Air bags' were not made with 'passengers' in mind? |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Nobody: 8:34pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
Hello Everyone, great to read your contributions. @ Johnydon22, I don't believe "nature" (whatever that means) was made for man. Why should man be distinct/separated from nature? Man is part of nature. Everything is. So nature was not made for man. Man is (part of) Nature. Again, it is obvious to all, that (the rest of) nature does not give a special treatment to mankind. Humanity just like every specie struggles to be fulfilled and to remain in existence. And Humanity, like other species, find in nature various opportunities and challenges (threats) alike. The idea of a nature which is a servant of man is first of all a religious concept (Go ye multiply and lord it over all creation ) which was turned into a scientific approach as formulated by Rene Descartes. According to Him, man should become Master and owner of nature. I consider this idea very wrong. Until we see ourselves as part of nature, part of a great and complex system, in which all elements and interdependent for their subsistence, we are heading toward the extinction of our specie... and Nature will continue to be, with or without us. Greetings. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by Nobody: 9:19pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
johnydon22:Yes. Nature can only be harnessed to our advantage. Man sometimes causes a perturbance in the balance of nature's biosphere. |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 11:09pm On Oct 10, 2016 |
herald9: Does a flaw in a design make the construct any less designed? It just shows the designer to be a pretty terrible/shabby designer or is just learning making mistakes while at it.. So does flaws really negate design? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by hahn(m): 12:14am On Oct 11, 2016 |
johnydon22: No it doesn't. Unless the designer of something shabby is claiming to be perfect. Can shabbiness be the product of something perfect? 1 Like |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 7:34am On Oct 11, 2016 |
hahn: exactly flaws do not negate design but only shows imperfection on the part of the designer. So [if the universe was designed] flaws in universe shows it was not made by anything perfect therefore the ideas of [perfect creators] do not hold but an imperfect one does. 2 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by hahn(m): 9:02am On Oct 11, 2016 |
johnydon22: True. But then he can still be most high. That would explain a lot of things |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by johnydon22(m): 9:04am On Oct 11, 2016 |
hahn: when someone argues design, it doesn't necessarily mean the Abrahamic God(s)... 1 Like |
Re: Nature: Made For Man Or Indifferent To Man's Existence? by hahn(m): 9:13am On Oct 11, 2016 |
johnydon22: Who mentioned any of those dolts? I am talking about the almighty god that created grass |
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