TheSixthSense:
See all of them shouting Allah Ahkbar What would an 87 year old celibate man change religion for? What more pleasures does he desire in this life and how many more years does he have? And the same person who refused to believe this simple story here of the tomb of Jesus Christ with coloured pictures and video believed this ridiculous satire He didn't even ask for proof He was already shouting Allah Ahkbar

cc Rilwayne001

TheSixthSense:
See, when you look for political theories you would find many especially when you read any history book. Look at Nigeria for example, going by our history many theories of ethnic, military, and colonial conspiracy would come up. But one may just be reading it simply to know what happened and not why. It is the reader that determines is intended with the knowledge of history. That said, Jesus Christ existed as is reliably recorded in history, Good! So, I will use Scripture here:If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.' (1 Cor 15:19)
You take about St James (Iakovos) brother of Jesus - mind you he never believed in Jesus until after Christ's ascension

sorry..i said an alledged brother of jesus...y? --i felt she may confuse him for the other james..so i had to specify..
Alledged---same way the gospel of matthew is ascribed to matthew the levi..

but he was matyred and also St Paul and St Peter (crucified, upside down at his request) many apostles killed and are still being killed for their faith in Jesus Christ.

i dont have proof of this..i choose not to rely on the traditions of the catholic church..

The significant thing you ignore is that these guys took vows of poverty and lives of absolute piety living as eunuchs for the hope in Jesus Christ and ended up brutally murdered. Did they have to live as ascetics?

even the essenes have such vows and lifestyle(the ascetics lifestyle)
They are one of the most ''holy'' in history
and they existed before christianity even dreamt of existing.

The Muslim Ottoman empire continued killing and conquering all early churches and christian regions, they took Jerusalem before the crusaders regained Jerusalem that was eventually lost again to Islam. Europe would have fallen to Islam were it not for the crusades but that's all politics.

and you still say roman catholics wanted to eradicate christianity?

Anyone can be interested in
politics and say Christianity is about world domination and power but even the pope cannot lie to any christian that that is what the tenets of Christianity are.
Faith in Jesus Christ is spiritual and the spiritual aspect of the Church never left. Everyone would be judged whether Pope or pauper individually so politics concern who e concern. If they wanted Constantine to become a christian, what's wrong with that? If I say I want Buhari to become a christian, I'm sure muslims and atheists would come up with conspiracy theories about my motives, although it may be true that I may have ulterior motives but that's between me and God but Jesus Christ is for everyone who believes in Him.

like i said...it depends on how ''YOU'' look at it..

raphieMontella:

sorry..but i havent even read the ''God delusion''...or whatever book..

sorry dude if you saw my earlier comment it was meant for 4evergod

jonbellion:
what is wrong with you sef?? Is Richard Dawkins the founder of atheism He is a scientist first and that is the only religious book he has to his name. Joel Osteen owns a 10.5 million dollar house. Benny hinn used to sell handkerchiefs for $20. Mark zuckerberg an atheist billioniare lives in a 7 million dollar house. Does Richard Dawkins even own a private jet pastor Crefo Dollar pleaded to his congregation that they should donate money cuz the lord says he needed a $70 million dollar gulfstream G650 jet and they were actually going to donate to him
Please remind me who is decirving who again

i understand your point..but i know where he was headed to.

4everGod:


Evangelist Dawkins Evangelist Dawkins Evangelist Dawkins ...

when Dawkins embraced Atheism the rest of you became Gullible and his stooges.

.

4everGod:


Evangelist Dawkins Evangelist Dawkins Evangelist Dawkins ...

when Dawkins embraced Atheism the rest of you became Gullible and his stooges.

what is wrong with you sef?? Is Richard Dawkins the founder of atheism He is a scientist first and that is the only religious book he has to his name. Joel Osteen owns a 10.5 million dollar house. Benny hinn used to sell handkerchiefs for $20. Mark zuckerberg an atheist billioniare lives in a 7 million dollar house. Does Richard Dawkins even own a private jet pastor Crefo Dollar pleaded to his congregation that they should donate money cuz the lord says he needed a $70 million dollar gulfstream G650 jet and they were actually going to donate to him
Please remind me who is decirving who again

4everGod:



Now picture this....2 of the biggest religions worldwide Christian and Islam and one of the biggest Archeological locations for Christianity has its keys in the hand of Muslims which means that the chances of it being adulterated andnproven as false is extremely high...

But guess what? Even they cannot prove its falsehood and cannot tamper with it.

Well sir I am not at all sure that I get your point so I will ask that you clarify. Given what we know from the Christian scriptures and from contemporary historians, where would you say the tomb of Jesus lay? Within the city walls of Jerusalem as Constantine declared on the site of an old temple to Venus or the mount of Olives close by to Calvary?

raphieMontella:

i understand your point..but i know where he was headed to.

lol he thinks Richard Dawkins is like the athiest high priest. Is atheism a religion

jonbellion:
lol he thinks Richard Dawkins is like the athiest high priest. Is atheism a religion

lol, na today you dey hear that nonsense?


"Christianity is not a religion"

"atheism is a religion"

lmao

"you guys aren't atheists, Zuckerberg and gates are atheists"


they keep descending lower and lower on a daily basis

Sarassin:


Thank you, much appreciated. I would add that the article in question raises the salient point as to what informed Helena, Constantine’s mother, that the site in question was the actual place Jesus died and was buried, that is the question that concerns us.

The present site in the Old walled city of Jerusalem has been the shared responsibility of all the different denominations of Christianity. Somebody asked how come King Abdullah of Jordan had given such a large donation to the restoration, it is largely because the site is holy to both Muslims and Christians, but there is also a more mundane reason.

Due to bitter in-fighting between different Christian sects over church responsibilities, the keys to the gate of the church have been handed over to ….you guessed it, a Muslim family since the middle of the 12th century.

Its been long since Rome has been in the biznes
This is what i don't get. Why are muslims so concerned about the buried site of Jesus of Nazareth to keep preserve it when their Noble koran says Jesus never died. If he didn't die, they wont be a burial site allocated to him right?

Sarassin:


Well sir I am not at all sure that I get your point so I will ask that you clarify. Given what we know from the Christian scriptures and from contemporary historians, where would you say the tomb of Jesus lay? Within the city walls of Jerusalem as Constantine declared on the site of an old temple to Venus or the mount of Olives close by to Calvary?

Given Roman crucifixion laws for Sedition at that time.

jonbellion:
lol he thinks Richard Dawkins is like the athiest high priest. Is atheism a religion

as promise10 implied---
hail charles Dawkins(whoever that is)
all hail the mighty charles dawkins!

hopefulLandlord:


lol, na today you dey hear that nonsense?


"Christianity is not a religion"

"atheism is a religion"

lmao

"you guys aren't atheists, Zuckerberg and gates are atheists"


they keep descending lower and lower emona daily basis

I just tire for this people sef

jonbellion:

what is wrong with you sef?? Is Richard Dawkins the founder of atheism He is a scientist first and that is the only religious book he has to his name. Joel Osteen owns a 10.5 million dollar house. Benny hinn used to sell handkerchiefs for $20. Mark zuckerberg an atheist billioniare lives in a 7 million dollar house. Does Richard Dawkins even own a private jet pastor Crefo Dollar pleaded to his congregation that they should donate money cuz the lord says he needed a $70 million dollar gulfstream G650 jet and they were actually going to donate to him
Please remind me who is decirving who again

The irony is that none of the guys here you mentioned charge 85$ per month for membership (ask what for?) or 500000$ annually and unlike them there's no free stuff, not even DVDs. Why don't you take a look: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/08/the-bizarre-and-costly-cult-of-richard-dawkins/

Look who's talking about Dawkins? the one who least knows him. FYI Dawkins is the current high priest of atheism. Hitchens left a vacuum even Dawkins cannot fill. So keep thinking Dawkins is doing atheists a favour read the article I sent you. Find information yourself, then contrast what you find with that of a priest

jonbellion:
lol he thinks Richard Dawkins is like the athiest high priest. Is atheism a religion

4everGod:


cc Rilwayne001

I'm sorry i didn't really bothered to read even the news or to check its authenticity. And then, i wasn't bringing it forward as a proof for my beliefs rather i was asking analice's opinion on it.

Here is a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Su8-FMcmNGQ

You can call it whatever you like anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wuFFX3M0oY

4evergod

Rilwayne001:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wuFFX3M0oY

4evergod

stop trying to derail this thread.

TheSixthSense:

The irony is that none of the guys here you mentioned charge 85$ per month for membership (ask what for?) or 500000$ annually and unlike them there's no free stuff, not even DVDs. Why don't you take a look: http://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/08/the-bizarre-and-costly-cult-of-richard-dawkins/

They don't know a thing about that which they profess and the high priest in their unholy of unholies.

analice107:


Its been long since Rome has been in the biznes
This is what i don't get. Why are muslims so concerned about the buried site of Jesus of Nazareth to keep preserve it when their Noble koran says Jesus never died. If he didn't die, they wont be a burial site allocated to him right?

If only it were that simple. Yes, Islam does takes the broad view that Jesus was not crucified, but was raised bodily to heaven by God, but not for the reasons you think. Actually this was a belief found kicking around in some of the earliest written gospel accounts and although it was viewed favorably by the likes of Clement of Alexandria, the entire doctrine was later rejected as heresy by orthodoxy.

Here is the verse that is relied upon by Islam in the Quran;

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

This is a most poignant and misunderstood verse, and please bear in mind that there is no consensus in Islam as to the manner of the passing of Christ.

What is important is to understand that, the boast “We killed Christ…..” was to be viewed in Islam as an example of human arrogance and folly with an attitude of contempt towards God and His messenger(s)

Islamic scholars largely interpret this verse concerning the historical death of Jesus the man, as man's inability to kill off God's Word and the Spirit of God, which as we know, the Quran testifies were embodied in Jesus Christ. Therefore the denial of the killing of Jesus was to be seen as God denying men such power to vanquish and destroy the Divine Word. The words, "they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him" speaks to the profound events of human history, exposing mankind's heart and conscience towards the will of God. In the final analysis, the claim of humanity to have this power against God is mere illusion.

Jesus is Lord.

Nobody should doubt the bibke

Lennycool:

Watched it, and it was epic. MORMONS want there own planet? Religion is a joke, they also have sacred underwear that they almost never remove.

I tell you

btw i've been enjoying the arguments of those who have been having encounters with God. .muslim vs christian

it would be more entertaining to see the battle within the body of Christ, Catholic, pentecostal, jehova witness, baptist etc battle it live on NL.

4everGod when shall we expect this clash of the titans

chiedu7:
Jesus is Lord.
Nobody should doubt the bibke

Yeah sure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0A_iF1B3k0




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWAUhadJzTk

Sarassin:


If only it were that simple. Yes, Islam does takes the broad view that Jesus was not crucified, but was raised bodily to heaven by God, but not for the reasons you think. Actually this was a belief found kicking around in some of the earliest written gospel accounts and although it was viewed favorably by the likes of Clement of Alexandria, the entire doctrine was later rejected as heresy by orthodoxy.

Here is the verse that is relied upon by Islam in the Quran;

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-

— Qur'an, sura 4 (An-Nisa) ayat 157-158

This is a most poignant and misunderstood verse, and please bear in mind that there is no consensus in Islam as to the manner of the passing of Christ.

What is important is to understand that, the boast “We killed Christ…..” was to be viewed in Islam as an example of human arrogance and folly with an attitude of contempt towards God and His messenger(s)

Islamic scholars largely interpret this verse concerning the historical death of Jesus the man, as man's inability to kill off God's Word and the Spirit of God, which as we know, the Quran testifies were embodied in Jesus Christ. Therefore the denial of the killing of Jesus was to be seen as God denying men such power to vanquish and destroy the Divine Word. The words, "they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him" speaks to the profound events of human history, exposing mankind's heart and conscience towards the will of God. In the final analysis, the claim of humanity to have this power against God is mere illusion.

Yes indeed, the claims of humanity to have power to kill God is mere illusion.

But Jesus died, real dead. Although, it wasn't in the power of man to have been able to kill him, as he declared that he will lay down his life and he also had the power to take it up again.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it againflesh at alllyan taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
John:10: 17-18

From a human perspective, it may appear that they had the power to kill Christ, but spiritually, they didn't know they couldn't kill him if he wasn't going to subject himself to death.

You see why i like you? I have followed up muslims and their teachings, i have never heard them interpreted that verse from that perspective. Besides, they deny that Jesus died, whether he laid down his life by himself or not. They claim, Jesus was snatched bodily to heaven by allah.

Sir, i don't think your interpretation of "Jesus did not die", and that of Islam is the same. Islam denies salvation/redemption through the death and resurrection of Christ, hence their claim that he didn't die. " Never tasted death" in the flesh at all.

Well, lets wait and see what will happen at His second coming, whether he will come to Rapture his saints as we believe, or kill the Christians and Jews and turn the whole world to allah as muslims claim.

rhektor:
this is a slam dunk


He will not answer that never

Am hoping he will try.

analice107:

Yes indeed, the claims of humanity to have power to kill God is mere illusion.

But Jesus died, real dead. Although, it wasn't in the power of man to have been able to kill him, as he declared that he will lay down his life and he also had the power to take it up again.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it againflesh at alllyan taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
John:10: 17-18

From a human perspective, it may appear that they had the power to kill Christ, but spiritually, they didn't know they couldn't kill him if he wasn't going to subject himself to death.

You see why i like you? I have followed up muslims and their teachings, i have never heard them interpreted that verse from that perspective. Besides, they deny that Jesus died, whether he laid down his life by himself or not. They claim, Jesus was snatched bodily to heaven by allah.

Sir, i don't think your interpretation of "Jesus did not die", and that of Islam is the same. Islam denies salvation/redemption through the death and resurrection of Christ, hence their claim that he didn't die. " Never tasted death" in the flesh at all.

Well, lets wait and see what will happen at His second coming, whether he will come to Rapture his saints as we believe, or kill the Christians and Jews and turn the whole world to allah as muslims claim.

Pretty good response. Of course Jesus died. Christians and Muslims alike understand this, why else would Muslims venerate the supposed site of the tomb of Christ? The argument is largely esoteric. For sure Islam denies the salvation/redemption creed of the resurrection of Jesus, but then, Judaism refutes personal salvation. I am not entirely surprised that the interpretation I have shown is not well known, indeed the subjective meaning of the verse itself has changed over the centuries from what was initially a compliment of the highest order from Islam to Christianity- to a singular point of division.

Here is what the Encyclopedia of Islam states about the verse denying of the death of Jesus;

The denial, furthermore, is in perfect agreement with the logic of the Qur’an. The Biblical stories reproduced in it (e.g., Job, Moses, Joseph etc.) and the episodes relating to the history of the beginning of Islam demonstrate that it is "God's practice" (sunnat Allah) to make faith triumph finally over the forces of evil and adversity. "So truly with hardship comes ease", (XCIV, 5, 6). For Jesus to die on the cross would have meant the triumph of his executioners; but the Quran asserts that they undoubtedly failed: "Assuredly God will defend those who believe"; (XXII, 49). He confounds the plots of the enemies of Christ (III, 54).

Sarassin:


Pretty good response. Of course Jesus died. Christians and Muslims alike understand this, why else would Muslims venerate the supposed site of the tomb of Christ? The argument is largely esoteric. For sure Islam denies the salvation/redemption creed of the resurrection of Jesus, but then, Judaism refutes personal salvation. I am not entirely surprised that the interpretation I have shown is not well known, indeed the subjective meaning of the verse itself has changed over the centuries from what was initially a compliment of the highest order from Islam to Christianity- to a singular point of division.

Here is what the Encyclopedia of Islam states about the verse denying of the death of Jesus;

The denial, furthermore, is in perfect agreement with the logic of the Qur’an. The Biblical stories reproduced in it (e.g., Job, Moses, Joseph etc.) and the episodes relating to the history of the beginning of Islam demonstrate that it is "God's practice" (sunnat Allah) to make faith triumph finally over the forces of evil and adversity. "So truly with hardship comes ease", (XCIV, 5, 6). For Jesus to die on the cross would have meant the triumph of his executioners; but the Quran asserts that they undoubtedly failed: "Assuredly God will defend those who believe"; (XXII, 49). He confounds the plots of the enemies of Christ (III, 54).

All i have to say here is that, the Jews denial or rejection of personal salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ is not any fault of theirs.
Apostle Paul explained their lack of faith or the rejection of their Messiah as divine so that Salvation can come to the Gentles.

Romans 11:1-2,11-12 God's Mercy on Israel I ask, then: Did God reject his own people? Certainly not! I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin.

God has not rejected his people, whom he chose from the beginning.

You know what the scripture says in the passage where Elijah pleads with God against Israel: I ask, then: When the Jews stumbled, did they fall to their ruin?

By no means! Because they sinned, salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make the Jews jealous of them.

The sin of the Jews brought rich blessings to the world, and their spiritual poverty brought rich blessings to the Gentiles. Then, how much greater the blessings will be when the complete number of Jews is included!

It is actually a fulfilment of the promise and covenant God made with Abraham to bless all nations through him Galatians 3:8.


Romans 11:15,17-18 For when they were rejected, all other people were changed from God's enemies into his friends. What will it be, then, when they are accepted?

It will be life for the dead! Some of the branches of the cultivated olive tree have been broken off, and a branch of a wild olive tree has been joined to it.

You Gentiles are like that wild olive tree, and now you share the strong spiritual life of the Jews. So then, you must not despise those who were broken off like branches.

How can you be proud? You are just a branch; you don't support the roots—the roots support you.

This passages explains why it seems the Lords own people rejected Him. But alas, when this Church Age comes to an ends (The dispensation of Grace), Salvation shall return to the Jews.

MakeWeTalk:
For my dear Moslem brothers who refused to believe that Jesus died.

This confirms that Jesus died and rose again.




http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/tomb-christ-opened-first-time-centuries-1588513

The bible confirmation should suffice. Let the Muslims keep thier own version. What is important to us is the Bible. Not what Muhammad or one scientific proof say.

analice107:

Hey kid, go and finish writing your WAEC first.

ad hominem- a logical fallacy in which the person giving the argument is attacked and not the argument. In the illusion of your mind you made a perfect comeback

jonbellion:
ad hominem- a logical fallacy in which the person giving the argument is attacked and not the argument. In the illusion of your mind you made a perfect comeback

lol,

I told you that asides ad hominem and intimidation tactics, they're purely empty

jonbellion:
ad hominem- a logical fallacy in which the person giving the argument is attacked and not the argument. In the illusion of your mind you made a perfect comeback

You just got here? welcome. Now that you are here, note that, not every comment is worth a responds.

analice107:

You just got here? welcome. Now that you are here, note that, not every comment is worth a responds.

*response