jonbellion:
*response

jonbellion:
this christians sef the sixth sense just told me the Shroud of Turing was never claimed to be jesus burial cloth l. That analice107 doesn't know Christianity came out of Judaism. Felixomor said wikipedia agrees with him that magic exists
If someone calls them ignorant now they will start claiming oppression

felixomor:


I thought by now u will have produced the page that supports u that it doesnt exist.
Moreover Wikipedia used to be ur favourite textbook reference na.

By the way, who have u oppressed before with your ape knowledge before?

Mscheweee

Ódè!

jonbellion:
I dare you to look for a school that will accept you again

analice107:

All i have to say here is that, the Jews denial or rejection of personal salvation through the death and resurrection of Christ is not any fault of theirs.
Apostle Paul explained their lack of faith or the rejection of their Messiah as divine so that Salvation can come to the Gentles..............

Sarassin:


I understand the Christian perspective, but regardless of the explanation of the Apostle Paul, the fact remains that the concept of personal salvation had always been foreign to Judaism. And lest we forget, Jesus was a practicing Jew, and even though Jesus seemed to display a certain contempt for Pharisaical Jewry, at the very minimum he would have observed the Torah. Judaism teaches a collective salvation i.e the salvation of the Jewish people, therefore the idea that someone dies for another person’s transgressions was foreign to the people of Israel, and in that respect Paul’s explanation is disingenuous.

The relationship between Yahweh and the people of Israel as defined by the Abrahamic and Noahide covenants pre-dates and transcends anything Paul says, that is my view and the view of the majority of Jewish scholars….and Jesus was a Jew.

The point I was making which has been missed was that, if Jewish people of whom Jesus was one and lived amongst did not accept the principles, concepts and doctrine of a personal saviour how then do you fault Muslims for instance for non-acceptance?

analice107:

The only understandable explanation i can give to what your submission is, is that, the Jews never believed in their scriptures, Prophets and prophesies, because if they did they should have known from their own prophecies that a new covenant was going to be enacted and a Messiah was coming along side it, and his mission statement was stated explicitly.

The Angel Gabriel delivered the mission statement of Christ on Earth.

Matthew 1:21 She will bear a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus [the Greek form of the Hebrew Joshua, which means Savior], for He will save His people from their sins [that is, prevent them from failing and missing the true end and scope of life, which is God].

This has nothing to do with fighting and getting victories over their physical enemies.


If the Concept of personal salvation was foreign to the Jews, it was indeed becos they abandoned their scriptures which prophesied about Christ and what he'd do in the first place.

The Jews are a Covenant believing people, If they were focused and not give in to human traditions, they would have understood from their own scriptures that Jeremiah, Isaiah, Daniel, David, right down to Malachi said this.

If they were focused as they shd be, they would not ve been left out as to when and where the promised Messiah was to be born, only to be reminded by total strangers from the far East who followed a star to locate Him.

No wonder, Jesus told them (Pharisees), that the Publicans and Prostitutes (Whom they abhor and disdain) will enter into the Kingdom of God, while they will left out. That is because, while the sinners recognised the saviour, believed and turn away from sin, they(Pharisees) where following Christ about (eating the food he multiplied, drank the wine he transformed) yet looking for ways to condemn and have Him killed.

Jeremiah 31:31 precisely, Yahweh told them that He was going to make new covenant with them, and this new Covenant shall not be like the old, which was collective, this one will be individualistic.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Not according to the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was their Husband, says the Lord.

But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the the Lord.

I will put My law within them, and on their hearts will I write it; and I will be their God, and they will be My people.

Can we clearly see Yahweh talking about the New Covenant of Salvation which will no long be COLLECTIVE, BUT INDIVIDUALISTIC?

And they will no more teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, Know the Lord, for they will all know Me [recognize, understand, and be acquainted with Me], from the least of them to the greatest, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will [seriously] remember their sin no more.

Have we seen Yahweh prophesying through Jeremiah what he will later do? This new covenant shall be written in our hearts individually, and we are to have a ONE ON ONE relationship with Him.

The first "Collective Salvation, was to deliver the Jews from their fellow men. The enemy nations which surrounded and still surrounds them today
That covenant had every thing to do with the Jews only, preserving their seed which will ultimately bring about the Seed of Abraham through whom salvation will go to the Gentles. And, this was what The Apostle Paul was talking about in Galatians 3, and not some outlandish theory.

But the second covenant talks about the salvation of Souls from death which we all (Jews and Gentiles) died in Adam, and this is not collective.

The Apostle Paul is in no way preaching a different gospel from that which Christ instituted, because, all his writings expounded what the prophets had previously prophesied.

Indeed Christ was a Jew, but the Judaism He practiced was not the twisted " Man made traditions" of the Pharisaical Laws.

The Pharisees were laden with Pride and arrogance that although their prophecies said salvation will go to the Gentiles, they could not bring themselves to share their God (Whom they didn't even know) with Sinners. That wasn't the Judaism Christ practiced.


Christ was, and is still a humanist. He loved all and he was hated for it.

Christ preached an all-inclusive gospel LOVE which ran at variance with what the pharisees held. Christ represented Humility, the Pharisee were full of pump. He was open, receiving and eating with all and sundry, that wasn't their kind of Judaism. He practically oppressed all their laid down rules and laws, hence, the move to get rid of him.

Sir, if you say Christ practiced a Judaist Religion which was collective salvation as opposed to what the Apostle Paul and we gospels taught and we Christians stand for today, you'll be categorically calling Christ a subvert, and a liar, for He Himself, declared that salvation is found, and can be gotten from no other person but him ONLY.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me.

These here are Jesus' own words not Paul's.

If Jesus taught and stood for collective salvation, then the above declaration will be annulled and not to have come from Christ.

I still stand by my previous position and say, the oversight of the Jews to miss and reject their Messiah was a fulfilment of prophecies, and it's no fault of theirs. According to those same prophecies, when the Gentle Dispensation/Church Age closes, salvation shall return to the Jews.

Sarassin:

Hi Analice107, As you know I don’t necessarily agree with you but I adore your steadfastness and commitment to your cause, nevertheless I do have a few bones to pick with you over your latest submission.

You say the Jews never believed their own scriptures, prophecies and prophets, I say that is untrue and I can’t fathom how you arrive at that conclusion. We know that the Jewish people expected the arrival of a collective Messiah or savior and they have held steadfast to their belief. How do we know this? Well because the Tanakh, the main textual source for the Christian Old Testament tells us so, the Jewish Midrash- an exegesis of the Torah tells us so as does the Torah itself. In short every ancient Jewish document that predates the Christian canons states this incontrovertible fact.

You have quoted Mat 1:21 as the mission statement of the Archangel Gabriel which is fine, but you are forgetting that the vast majority of Jewish people who lived at the time of Jesus would never have read that statement. The earliest followers of Jesus would have had no idea that he was born of a virgin not even the Apostle Paul! Why? Because the Gospel of Mathew you quote was written around 85CE fully fifty years after Jesus was put to death. How then were people to know that Archangel Gabriel visited Mary? It is very clear that this was a declaration made long after the fact.

You have quoted Jeremiah 31:33-34, you might not know this but the Book of Jeremiah is considered a canon of Judaism, Jeremiah wrote in roughly 626 BCE particularly about the destruction of Jerusalem because the people of Israel forsook their deity Yahweh for Baal.

You ought to read the entire book again because you have taken the words of the great prophet entirely out of context in a marvelous feat of pure revisionism. There is not even the merest hint of Yahweh talking about a new covenant in the form of individualistic salvation as you put it, that is linked to Christ, at least not in 626 BCE. The very idea that the Prophet who lived and wrote at a time of great tribulation and distress facing the people of Israel would then be writing about the individual salvation of Gentiles is laughable.

Christianity is essentially an off-shoot of Judaism, Hellenized Judaism if you like, but it takes its sources from Judaism, the historical and doctrinal antecedents of Christianity are drawn from Judaism and never the other way around and simply because Christianity has selectively modified parts of Judaism for global consumption it does not then mean that historical facts should be twisted. To say that Jewish rejection of Jesus as Messiah is a fulfillment of prophecy is basically wrong, it amounts to Paulinist apology for the great divide.

analice107:


Shalom and thanks for your time.

felixomor1:


Oh so u even believe Constantine existed?

I thought those were all myths too, as some of ur colleagues claim.

By the way, some of ur colleagues also dig up chimpanzee bones and use it as "proof" for evolution.
Just in case u r not aware