ActivateKruger:

Mmmh with an assault rifle? Poor kids

Best class ever.

lionel4power:

•Egypt
• Algeria
• Tunisia
• South Africa

Having an AEW&C will boost airbourne operational command and control.

Nigeria also needs a multiple platforms mounting a Synthetic Aperture Radar for ground surveillance.

Egypt = yes, but it's not Sub-Saharan.

As for the SAAF, we'd want it for platform training but not need it for real life. See, unless we decide to mount the Meteor BVR on the Gripen then we'd need it. As for the moment, all our neighbours are flying not-so-lethal machines and Angola (with potential machines) is not even a remote threat.

MikeCZA:
Best class ever.

Yeah, count scenarios include;

- "If my class has 13 students and I shoot 5 students to death, then how many students do I have alive?".

Or

-" If there were 16 Al Shabaab fighters and one bombs himself to death, how many Al Shabaab do you have left?".


.... and of course you can't dare fail mathematics tests when your teacher holds an Ak47 in class.

ActivateKruger:


Egypt = yes, but it's not Sub-Saharan.

As for the SAAF, we'd want it for platform training but not need it for real life. See, unless we decide to mount the Meteor BVR on the Gripen then we'd need it. As for the moment, all our neighbours are flying not-so-lethal machines and Angola (with potential machines) is not even a remote threat.

that the problem with south africa ! your ambition does go farther than your neighbouring countries or sub-Sahara countries.that why i know for sure that south african isn't the future of sub sahara countries,we need a truly progressive sub sahara country to be our leader

off topic :Turkey air force needs pilots, the age for application has been increased from 27 to 32.

lionel4power:

•Egypt
• Algeria
• Tunisia
• South Africa

Having an AEW&C will boost airbourne operational command and control.

Nigeria also needs a multiple platforms mounting a Synthetic Aperture Radar for ground surveillance.

Yep in S.S.A it is more important to look down than up.

AWACS is a nice fancy toy that serious militaries have, but when 90% of your threats are are the ground thats where the money must go - a decent surveilance platform, with signals intercept abilities and possibility the ability to act as a air-borne command post.

africaken254:
that the problem with south africa ! your ambition does go farther than your neighbouring countries or sub-Sahara countries.that why i know for sure that south african isn't the future of sub sahara countries,we need a truly progressive sub sahara country to be our leader

Hey, if you want to buy us an AWACS, 300km+ BVRs, 2 more Gripen squadrons then you're welcome.... But till then our military ambition is just around our borders because it's what we afford (without upsetting the public)

As for the economic ambition, it goes as far beyond that - you tend to sell things better when you're not talking about guns.

africaken254:
that the problem with south africa ! your ambition does go farther than your neighbouring countries or sub-Sahara countries.that why i know for sure that south african isn't the future of sub sahara countries,we need a truly progressive sub sahara country to be our leader

.... We are they way we are because we are focusing on development, you know... Butter not Guns.

FYI, we spend more on education than the combined GDP of Botswana, Namibia, Zimbabwe.

Lets also not ignore the role we are playing in the Great Lakes Region.

ActivateKruger:


Egypt = yes, but it's not Sub-Saharan.

As for the SAAF, we'd want it for platform training but not need it for real life. See, unless we decide to mount the Meteor BVR on the Gripen then we'd need it. As for the moment, all our neighbours are flying not-so-lethal machines and Angola (with potential machines) is not even a remote threat.

your reasoning is that whenever you need it you'll buy it.

heres an african proverb *its better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it*

although Egypt has the northrob Gruman's E2C hawkeye.

me thinks that Nigerian whenever she has enough fighter fleet can approach Sweden for the Erieye AEW&C Which pakistan, saudi arabia, brazil, greece, thailand, mexico e.t.c has.

The radar provides 300 degree coverage and
has an instrumental range of 450 km and
detection range of 350 km in a dense
hostile electronic warfare environment—in
heavy radar clutter and at low target
altitudes. In addition to this, the radar is
also capable of identifying friends or foes,
and has a sea surveillance mode.


most AEW&C has sea mode for patrolling the vast ocean.

ActivateKruger:


Hey, if you want to buy us an AWACS, 300km+ BVRs, 2 more Gripen squadrons then you're welcome.... But till then our military ambition is just around our borders because it's what we afford (without upsetting the public)

As for the economic ambition, it goes as far beyond that - you tend to sell things better when you're not talking about guns.

ok,your spending on development !what the fastest internet speeds offered to internet household users in south africa and give me the link?

if not for the construction of the suez canal


that made the south African end of the atlantic ocean less relevant that country would have been spending a hefty sum on naval and aerial defence since her shores. would be very busy.

africaken254:
ok,your spending on development !what the fastest internet speeds offered to internet household users in south africa and give me the link?

South Africa is;

- Building two new thermal power stations equating to 9 000MW (among the biggest in the world)

- Preparing to build 8 nuclear reactors which will cost a fortune

- Just finished building the largest electric wind farm in Africa

- Building the Meerkat telescope, it discovered over a thousand new galaxies in just a weekend of testing.

- Building new 600 new trains and yes some come with WiFi

- Just finished building the largest oil refinery in S.S Africa

- Just finished building the deepest seaport in Africa

- Expanding the the Durban port

The list is just a tip of an iceberg and all those things require money.

patches689:


Yep in S.S.A it is more important to look down than up.

AWACS is a nice fancy toy that serious militaries have, but when 90% of your threats are are the ground thats where the money must go - a decent surveilance platform, with signals intercept abilities and possibility the ability to act as a air-borne command post.

South African has an Excellent EW suite covering a large spectrum, me thinks unit for unit, SA has the lead in EW in africa but the lack of aerial platforms baffle me.

since SA understand the value of ground surveillance and target acquisition why dont you guys have any Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Moving Ground Target Indicator (GMTI) for total ground warfare control.


except you have and I dont know about.

lionel4power:

your reasoning is that whenever you need it you'll buy it.

heres an african proverb *its better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it*

although Egypt has the northrob Gruman's E2C hawkeye.

me thinks that Nigerian whenever she has enough fighter fleet can approach Sweden for the Erieye AEW&C Which pakistan, saudi arabia, brazil, greece, thailand, mexico e.t.c has.

The radar provides 300 degree coverage and
has an instrumental range of 450 km and
detection range of 350 km in a dense
hostile electronic warfare environment—in
heavy radar clutter and at low target
altitudes. In addition to this, the radar is

also capable of identifying friends or foes,
and has a sea surveillance mode.


most AEW&C has sea mode for patrolling the vast ocean.

- Egypt needs AWACS because Rafale + Meteor BVRAAM

- Sub-Saharan doesn't need AWACS because there's no active BVRs beyond 120km.

- Most SSA countries operate a dozen or two jets and those who do often have neighbours who don't, so who are you defending against? No one.


See, if Uncle Bob discovered oil in his country to change his fortunes then decides to buy the latest Russian interceptors while there's a new government in Pretoria that dislikes him THEN we will be compelled to add new air capacity and yes an AWACS plane to play along.

radio man NE

[size=14pt]FLASH UPDATE[/size]
SORRY FOR THE DERAILING
China assembles first indigenous aircraft carrier China has assembled its first domestically-designed aircraft carrier built solely out of indigenous components, the latest major achievement in Beijing's large-scale efforts to upgrade its military. Currently known as the Type 001A, the warship bears resemblance to the Admiral Kuznetsov-class multirole aircraft carrier Varyag.
AND THEN THEY WERE TWO.

africaken254:
that the problem with south africa ! your ambition does go farther than your neighbouring countries or sub-Sahara countries.that why i know for sure that south african isn't the future of sub sahara countries,we need a truly progressive sub sahara country to be our leader

You are always playing this "victim card". Countries do not shape there threat policies according to the requirements of another country which is thousands of kilometers away.

Countries around the regions have there threat requirements, it is the assessments done based on their requirements that shape each countries military posture.

South-Africa is not and was never a leader in Sub-Saharan Africa. Each region has a dominant player. In the West, Nigeria, South, South-Africa, East, un-decided and North, undecided.

ActivateKruger:


South Africa is;

- Building two new thermal power stations equating to 9 000MW (among the biggest in the world)

- Preparing to build 8 nuclear reactors which will cost a fortune

- Just finished building the largest electric wind farm in Africa

- Building the Meerkat telescope, it discovered over a thousand new galaxies in just a weekend of testing.

- Building new 4000 train locomotives and yes some come with WiFi

- Just finished building the largest oil refinery in S.S Africa

- Just finished building the deepest seaport in Africa

- Expanding the the Durban port

The list is just a tip of an iceberg and all those things require money.

how much MW does your wind farm generate ?this is the problem with most of you here,you claim things you can't prove

lionel4power:

South African has an Excellent EW suite covering a large spectrum, me thinks unit for unit, SA has the lead in EW in africa but the lack of aerial platforms baffle me.

since SA understand the value of ground surveillance and target acquisition why dont you guys have any Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Moving Ground Target Indicator (GMTI) for total ground warfare control.


except you have and I dont know about.

We use the Kondor E satellite... Please know that it's a Russian launched satellite BUT we have ownership.

Details about its capacity are very sketchy because of the secrecy surrounding it.

lionel4power:

your reasoning is that whenever you need it you'll buy it.

heres an african proverb *its better to have something and not need it than to need something and not have it*

although Egypt has the northrob Gruman's E2C hawkeye.

me thinks that Nigerian whenever she has enough fighter fleet can approach Sweden for the Erieye AEW&C Which pakistan, saudi arabia, brazil, greece, thailand, mexico e.t.c has.

The radar provides 300 degree coverage and
has an instrumental range of 450 km and
detection range of 350 km in a dense
hostile electronic warfare environment—in
heavy radar clutter and at low target
altitudes. In addition to this, the radar is
also capable of identifying friends or foes,
and has a sea surveillance mode.


most AEW&C has sea mode for patrolling the vast ocean.

From a Nigerian perspective, i can categorically say we do not require an AWACS or AEW&C. When ever we'll need it, we'll buy it. We do not have the resources to spend on the things we do not need. Our defence acquisition has and would always be on a need basis.

The Nigerian Air Force has been carrying out modern Strike Missions since 1993. That's 23 years of continious strike missions all across West-Africa. Our defence purchase also reflects this.

We have a piracy problem, our Naval acquisition reflects this also.

It's the same argument with buying the SU-30 over the JF-17. We won't consider the SU-30 because there is no requirement for it, however the SU-34 we would consider.


Instead of investing in an AWACS, we should channel the resource into acquiring more helicopters, transport planes and surveillance infrastructure.

Henry240:


You are always playing this "victim card". Countries do not shape there threat policies according to the requirements of another country which is thousands of kilometers away.

Countries around the regions have there threat requirements, it is the assessments done based on their requirements that shape each countries military posture.

South-Africa is not and was never a leader in Sub-Saharan Africa. Each region has a dominant player. In the West, Nigeria, South, South-Africa, East, un-decided and North, undecided.

i agree with you south-africa is not and never being a leader in sub-sahara africa but i dont agree with you that a nation should only consider its military might with the threat near it. syria assad are now facing enemies within their border,funded by neighboring countries and foes thousand of kilometers away.now how can your so called threat assessment be of use to syria !also whats the US threat assessment !

lionel4power:

South African has an Excellent EW suite covering a large spectrum, me thinks unit for unit, SA has the lead in EW in africa but the lack of aerial platforms baffle me.

since SA understand the value of ground surveillance and target acquisition why dont you guys have any Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and Moving Ground Target Indicator (GMTI) for total ground warfare control.


except you have and I dont know about.

Most of our stuff is ground based

Cheaper and easier to hide

As for full spectrum idk but I know that ISTAR and SIGNIT do exist in a round about way - with that Thales gear plus different EW platforms (like Frumentus's spooky Casspirs) come together through link ZA

Details about it all are scarce

africaken254:
i agree with you south-africa is not and never being a leader in sub-sahara africa but i dont agree with you that a nation should only consider its military might with the threat near it. syria assad are now facing enemies within their border,funded by neighboring countries and foes thousand of kilometers away.now how can your so called threat assessment be of use to syria !

Syria always had a massive military. They always had the Israeli threat to consider. It had nothing to do with ISIS or the current distabilization of the country by Syria's neighbors.


We don't have that sort of a threat, we don't require that sort of a military posturing. If Uncle Sam decides to ship "freedom & democracy" to African nations it would, and quite effortlessly without hassle.


There are multiple other things to invest in asides the military. If not for India, i find it insane for Pakistan to have the sort of military it has when the country's infrastructure is dead. Infact i also find the Indian military to be most unfortunate especially with the state of Infrastructure and poverty in India.

africaken254:
i agree with you south-africa is not and never being a leader in sub-sahara africa but i dont agree with you that a nation should only consider its military might with the threat near it. syria assad are now facing enemies within their border,funded by neighboring countries and foes thousand of kilometers away.now how can your so called threat assessment be of use to syria !also whats the US threat assessment !

you just took the words right out of my mind. we In africa gets comfortable easily, we quickly feel so secure in our continent and if the whole world decides to rot it wont affect us.

if Assad has an AEW&C US, Turkey, Isreal will not assault his airspace anyhow. Iraq also wouldn't have been invaded easily.

lets keep feeling safe and secure until our airspace gets raped. we should look beyond our neighbors. Vietnam, Panamas, Cuba all had quiet neighbors but look what happened.

africaken254:
how much MW does your wind farm generate ?this is the problem with most of you here,you claim things you can't prove

Hehehe, I have links to all the facts I have mentioned. Just didn't bother with the links because it's off-topic. However pick any then I'll gladly supply the link (provided you hate Googling).

As for the wind electricity, 1300MW here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Africa

www.southafrica.info/business/investing/energy-140714.htm#.WBdiETPRbI0

Patchesagain:


Most of our stuff is ground based

Cheaper and easier to hide

As for full spectrum idk but I know that ISTAR and SIGNIT do exist in a round about way - with that Thales gear plus different EW platforms (like Frumentus's spooky Casspirs) come together through link ZA

Details about it all are scarce

ground based gears have range limitations.

lionel4power:
Something we tend to forget easily is that most wars fought since... the aggressor usually coerce the neighbors to allow their troops pass through the border to attack

Which is often true if you have neighbours that really hate you.... southern Africa seems to get along that's why we resisted a proposed American forward base in Botswana, as for the rest of SSA - I have no idea.

Henry240:


From a Nigerian perspective, i can categorically say we do not require an AWACS or AEW&C. When ever we'll need it, we'll buy it. We do not have the resources to spend on the things we do not need. Our defence acquisition has and would always be on a need basis.

The Nigerian Air Force has been carrying out modern Strike Missions since 1993. That's 23 years of continious strike missions all across West-Africa. Our defence purchase also reflects this.

We have a piracy problem, our Naval acquisition reflects this also.

It's the same argument with buying the SU-30 over the JF-17. We won't consider the SU-30 because there is no requirement for it, however the SU-34 we would consider.


Instead of investing in an AWACS, we should channel the resource into acquiring more helicopters, transport planes and surveillance infrastructure.

Although you did mention some weeks ago that the NAF had a requirement for an AWAC but the deal didn't pull through.

Owning an AWAC/AEW&C doesn't really need a requirement and that's the problem.

Its like a policeman that has a gun because his neighbors has a gun, then he buys a knife because his neighbors had one but he wont buy a CCTV camera because his neighbors doesn't have it. that is a very inhibiting way of thinking. Why not acquire it to enhance your collective situational awareness.



By the Way I believe Nigeria has the cash to buy any thing they want only if the politicians decides to forgo currruption for national development. I DONT PITY POLITICIANS POCKETS.

ActivateKruger:


Which is often true if you have neighbours that really hate you.... southern Africa seems to get along that's why we resisted a proposed American forward base in Botswana, as for the rest of SSA - I have no idea.

in SUMMARY, so you are basing your threat assessment on the goodwill of your neighbors.

hoping that they are good and nice to you.

I HOPE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD KEEPS BEING NICE FOR YOUR SAKE.

ActivateKruger:


Hehehe, I have links to all the facts I have mentioned. Just didn't bother with the links because it's off-topic. However pick any then I'll gladly supply the link (provided you hate Googling).

As for the wind electricity, 1300MW here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Africa

www.southafrica.info/business/investing/energy-140714.htm#.WBdiETPRbI0

add the following list and tell me if it adds up to 1300MW ! also you said you have the biggest wind farm not that you generate the most power in africa using wind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_South_Africa

lionel4power:
in SUMMARY, so you are basing your threat assessment on the goodwill of your neighbors.

hoping that they are good and nice to you.

I HOPE YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD KEEPS BEING NICE FOR YOUR SAKE.

OK chief. Are you aware that you don't magically wish for weapons to appear in your base? You buy them with CASH and that cash is within your own budget.

So given the national budget, what makes you think we would forsake all the other necessities for defence? Do you know that if you neglect the voters then you will not see office again?.... In South Africa, if you buy a bullet and the media hears about it students will be marching on the streets demanding they get free tertiary education, then unemployment grants, free houses, free Internet and all exotic freebies. WHY? because you'd have given them the impression that you have money to prepare for an invisible enemy.