SirWere:
Why do people give more credit to mystic and frauds rather than listen to common sense.

Deicide:

When i Read the first line The Book was Written By John i just Laughed at the Ignorance of the op

SirWere:
Why do people give more credit to mystic and frauds rather than listen to common sense.

MrMystrO:


Well if it Truly wasn't written by a Man named john, Then you can Discredit everything i have said here. But you have google, don't you? Do your research very well, Then comment Again, My friend.

Deicide:

Bro you are Ignorant

MrMystrO:


Then enlighten me bro, thats the reason we are all here, to help each other know more. i do not claim 2 knw it all so pls, enlighten me More bro.

Deicide:

When i Read the first line The Book was Written By John i just Laughed at the Ignorance of the op

Deicide:

When i Read the first line The Book was Written By John i just Laughed at the Ignorance of the op

Philadelphia:




They are here. They do not believe in God not His Words but everywhere He is discussed, you find them wallowing I their ignorance and exposing their foolishness that they refer to as "freethinking"...

Deicide:

Answer me this
1)if john wrote revelation then who wrote the book of john?
Uhhm I have the belief that you are a christian but if you really are, Then u must be just a CHURCH GOER and not a true christian at all because you dont even know the most simple and obvious facts your religion is made of. If you open ANY bible close to you, you find that the book you are actually referring to in the bible is called the Gospel according to john, and if you go to the book of Revelation, You will also see that it was The Revelation According to John or simply, The Revelation to John. The argument about which of the john's actually wrote the book of revelation(either john the apostle or john of patmos) is still being debated till now but it has never been Ever debated that the Name of the writer of the book of revelation was john. This is a sealed and certified fact.


2)The Book of John is it A First, Second or Third person writing?

Sarassin:

[b]The Apocalypse of John is essentially a re-hashing of the Syblline Oracular writings. It was considered very un-Christian-like and its admittance to the canons was vehemently opposed.

The Apocalypse of John closely aligns to the fourth chapter of the Sibylline Oracles which is thoroughly eschatological in character, it narrates a sequence of events which include earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, as well as the devastation of many cities in the sea before the destruction of the world by fire and the subsequent general resurrection of the dead.

Similar to the eschatological discourse of Jesus in the Gospels, the Siblylline Oracles which forms a lot of the textual source for the Apocalypse of John based its end-time events in the background context of the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem in the 1st century AD and the tyrannous reign of Nero (the original beast of Revelation) The oracles foretold that these events would take place in the backdrop of a period of apostasy - the self-same Great Apostasy spoken of in numerous places throughout Christian Scripture which Christians consider they currently endure today.

The Sibyllines were extensively referenced by early church theologians and pagans alike. Curiously, if you look closely enough you will discern an acrostic in the form of a Christian coded phrase in successive first letters of each line: ICHTHUS
[/b]

Well i agree with you that they the book of revelation and the Sibylline Oracles( or more properly titled the Pseudo-Sibylline Oracles) share a lot of similarities which is quite obvious in their both apocalyptic nature and the both of them ending in the final judgement of God to man, And as we all know, the bible is a compilation of books put together by the Romans, some of which were Jewish, Greek and mostly pagan in origin. But if you study these two writings very closely, you will find a very good difference in the sequences of events and in the manner which these events are supposed to happen. It is very possible that in the original writings of the Pseudo-Sibylline Oracles, The same message that was being passed to john was the same message that was also being passed to the prophetic priestesses(clairvoyants) back then during the Etruscan and possibly the early Roman Era. But actually These books were destroyed, partially in a fire in 83 B.C.E., and finally burned by order of the Roman General Flavius Stilicho.


So most of the writings on the so called Sibyline oracles are forgeries and vague dubious compositions probably composed between the second to sixth century C.E. And so now holds very very little Truths and actual facts from the original writing, whereas the document containing the book of revelation was found almost intact, though the real author of the book is still to be deciphered if it was john the apostle of jesus,(clairvoyant) or john of patmos who was an early christian prophet(clairvoyant). And although it is also noted that the writings in the books compare with that of some of the writings and predictions of the old testament books of prophets notably Daniel, Ezekiel, Psalms of david, and Isaiah(All clairvoyants), This should be considered as a sure proof that most of the symbolic representations of these particular events written on this book and most of the other books of the prophets are real and have some sort of Truth in them as they were all revealed to only clairvoyants and Since TRUTH is the Essence of the universal multidimensional consciousness which reveals these messages to these clairvoyant men, it is only Logical that they convey the same message but all have different symbolical representations because it is still the ordinary conscious mind that interprets this message from the superconscious mind and because the ordinary conscious mind is founded on earthly reality alone, and is influenced by what one knows, believes and understands here on earth, the symbolic interpretations of this same message might differ depending on the mind of the consciousness which this message/vision is being conveyed to.


So i think the book of revelation was the complete package (or the closest of all to being the complete package) of that divine message which was given as symbolic representation of what is to come in the future, and because The ordinary conscious mind can never comprehend most of the things of the spirit or the superconscious mind outside of this realm, these messages had to be passed symbolically through relating the things of the spirit to the things which the ordinary conscious mind can understand here on earth, thereby causing that message not to come in its pure and true meaning but through symbolism. And because it was only revealed to clairvoyants, Only clairvoyants also, can understand and interpret this message to the limits of his/her own understanding based on the comprehension of reality of its ordinary consciousness, no matter the symbolic form which this message is presented in. And since humans generally grow in knowledge in their understanding of the world and reality over time, The literal interpretation given here is a more modernized and more updated representation of this same divine message/prophecy To suit the understanding of our time, become clearer in its true meanings and be more understandable to the people of our generation which this message was originally intended for in the first place, Since obviously, the abstract symbolism used by the clairvoyant men of old and this new more understandable interpretation by a more recent clairvoyant only goes to show that the men of old translated this same message to their understanding of the world and Reality at that time And that was why it came out as abstract and as symbolic as it was.
Hope i contributed to your post. Have a nice day sir.

Philadelphia:




They are here. They do not believe in God not His Words but everywhere He is discussed, you find them wallowing I their ignorance and exposing their foolishness that they refer to as "freethinking"...

Ignorance, like it is defined is, is a state of lack of KNOWLEDGE AND INFORMATION. If you obviously possessed any of these, You would understand at least to a little extent, the message i am trying to convey here but Obviously you don't. So with all due respect sir, it is you who is ignorant and lacking the information needed to Understand me at least to a certain level. The ignorant Cannot call something it Does not understand ignorant, because He himself is ignorant of that thing it thinks is ignorant.

Lack of information and knowledge alone, causes ignorance, Nothing more, And information and knowledge are just the things which you really Lack, and need in your Life right Now. I hope you find your Path to the TRUTH soon enough Bro, Have a good day

MrMystrO:
..........

Sarassin:
[b]

Very good riposte. I am loathe to go too deeply into the allegorical symbolism of the Book of Revelations or the efficacy of prophecy altogether, (in my view, the dating of the written books of a significant amount of OT prophecy reveals that they were written mostly after the prophesied event) I do agree with you that the authorship is still indeterminate and your submission on the authenticity of the pseudo-Sybilline Oracles.

But the parts of the pseudo-Sybilline Oracles that concerns us are Books 3-5 which are undoubtedly by a Jewish author and they pre-date the Apocalypse of John. For instance we know that the author of the Sybilline Oracle Book 3 is acquainted with the Book of Daniel and that the author wrote under Ptolemy VII. Physcon, who at first reigned together with his brother but attained to the sole sovereignty (145-117 BCE).
We can further date Book 3 by the allusions to the destruction of Carthage and Corinth both cities, as is well known were destroyed in the year 146 BCE

The Fourth Book of the Sibylline Oracles appears to be from a single Jewish author. The book ends with an eschatological passage (152-192), within which we have an exhortation to repentance (162-178). It is the book that most closely foreshadows the Book of Revelations and there are significant parallels to be drawn between them. Internally the book can be dated to about 80CE: lines 107-8 reference the restoration of Laodicea after the earthquake (of 60CE); 115-118 references the internal struggles in Jerusalem during the siege (in 69CE); 125-6 talks about the destruction of the temple (70CE); whilst 119-24 speaks of the disappearance of Nero, the expectation of his return, and the struggles of 76CE.

Irenaeus dates the book of Revelations to around the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96 (Against heresies 30) Therefore we can be reasonably certain that the author of the apocalypse of John had access to the Jewish portions at least of the Pseudo-Sybilline Oracles.

I see the Apocalypse of John as no more than the Christian crystallization of its own form of eschatology as distinct from say, a Jewish apocalypse, in my view it is of very limited clairvoyance.
[/b]


I Love the points you made, and i agree with you on almost everything you said except something u seem not to fully comprehend.
in the realm outside space and time, which is the realm of the spirit, the soul/subconsciousness which is the realm these clairvoyants visit to get their information, Time is static, which means there is no space, meaning time also does not exist in that realm. So what does it mean? I Can be a clairvoyant and visit that realm and get the same message Daniel, Isaiah or even Moses got during those ancient times, especially the very important ones which haven't happened yet, The only difference will be in my interpretation of that same message because my ordinary earth bound consciousness will interpret it differently from them because my idea of reality has changed a lot from that of Moses because the collective knowledge of humanity has increased and i obviously know more about the truths of reality than they did back then.


What i'm actually saying is, it doesn't matter the time these prophecies or these messages were given. They were all meant to pass the same message but were all symbolically represented differently because of the time frame involved and the minds of whom these messages were given to, given that they all lived in different times, obviously had different views/beliefs about reality and this influenced how they interpreted the message.

The Syblline Oracles might have predated the writings of the apocalypse of john, but nevertheless i still think they were gotten from the same source, which is the divine multidimensional superconcsiousness we all have within us, and was still meant to pass the same message, though in different times, giving rise to the resemblance of the abstract symbolic representation of the messages, but still showcasing the obvious differences in the writings and sequences of events due to the different times these clairvoyants lived.

That's my opinion on the issue bro,

Philadelphia:
Op. You're wrong

MrMystrO:
...........

Sarassin:


I take your points, I fully comprehend the realm outside of time and space, and I get clairvoyancy. I am happy to see that you have made the point of clarifying that clairvoyancy can also be subjective and there is certainly mileage in your assertion of a common divine source for prophecy irrespective of time. For me, the issue is authenticity. All in all, very interesting posts.


Thanks bro, I really appreciate your interest in this topic and your deep educational questions and contributions which has also helped me learn some more new things too. However, speaking on the issue of authenticity, i think that most of texts, like we all agree on, obviously show some similarities btw each other regardless of the time/era this message was being received .I think This is the most obvious Truth that these messages are authentic or at least contain little elements of truth in them, Because regardless of the Age, the message had to still be passed and it is has been so. Once again, thanks a lot for your contributions sir, you can also follow me and get to view some of my other topics and also share your contributions and questions on them. Have a lovely day sir.