akintom:


Now that you know for FACT, that SOMETHING created the universe, can you now tell me the SOMETHING please?

promise10:


can you stop dodging?

you guys will just come out as atheists, when hit you guys so hard in arguments you resort to becoming agnostic. COWARDS!!

Everyone knows that the core of atheism is NATURALISM, where everything is believed to have come through natural processes. so, what's your Point?

peacesamuel94:
If I were to sum up the arguments between atheists and theists, I would say that atheists do not believe the universe was created while the theists do.


So going by the atheist's logic, the universe was uncaused, The world and everything within it, came by co-incidence. hence there is no tangible reason for our existence.

So My question is, who created the scientific laws and principles governing the earth? How did an uncaused physical entity set up rules to govern all that goes on within it.
If the world came accidentally, why does the organization within it,
seem to contradict it's accidental origin?

CoolUsername:


No, I talked about the prevailing scientific hypotheses, the problematic logic around the Universe needing a creator because of how complex out is and so on.

I clearly stated that people would have different ways of reasoning these and my ideas are not set in stone. If you had read my post then maybe you'd've seen where I said all these things.

You ask where all these things came from because you have a ready-made answer in your head; it's the same answer for all your questions. But having an answer doesn't make you correct. The scientific method has allowed us take advantage of nature over the years. It may be slow and costly but our most reliable means towards finding our origins.

I'm proud to say I don't know yet instead of inventing an answer.

HCpaul:


So you can question the cause of universal laws but finds it difficult to question the source and origin of your god.

It's obvious you are ignorant of the fabrics of the Cosmo, that is why you intellectually stoop so low to underestimate nature's ability to self evolve but overestimate and been engrossed with devising fables of an unknown, unidentified and unverified figure ignorantly nominated as the Creator and the intelligent cause for both the unobserved and our observable universe.

DeckXavier:
[quote author=DoctorAlien

if god created the universe then how did god come into being?

DeckXavier:
if god created the universe then how did god come into being?

DoctorAlien:


GOD must, of necessity be eternal i.e. He must have no beginning and no end. This is because the concept of time(as we know it) exists only in the Universe. And because GOD caused the Universe(which includes time), He must of necessity exist outside time.

And if you say that something caused(created) GOD, you imply that there is a time between the beginning of the existence of the thing that caused GOD and the beginning of the existence of GOD(for cause must come before effect). But since time does not exist outside the Universe, no such thing can exist. Therefore GOD is the uncaused Cause of the Universe.

DeckXavier:
your assertions are totally unverifiable,you can't make such bold claims e.g time doesn't exists outside the universe,arguments should be made up of premises that verifiable and not things like this...is god perfect?? Check out my argument

god created humans in his image and likeness

humans are imperfect

then it follows that god is not imperfect hence he is not god since he falls short of the description of been a perfect being

peacesamuel94:
You can't conclusively say that, considering the fact that science itself is limited, and that there is much more to the universe than science can unravel.

DeckXavier:
nothing can exist without time,not possible...if god existed he would have done so in a time dimension abi?and for anything to be created its creator must exist in a time dimension for nothing can come being without time,therefore if god actually existed in time he must have needed a creator prior to his existence

DeckXavier:
nothing can exist without time,not possible...if god existed he would have done so in a time dimension abi?and for anything to be created its creator must exist in a time dimension for nothing can come being without time,therefore if god actually existed in time he must have needed a creator prior to his existence

DoctorAlien:


What is time and how is it necessary for existence?

peacesamuel94:


You talk as if you've been in and out of the universe,and what makes you think that cause and effect, beginning and end applys to every time dimension.

DeckXavier:
funniest question i have heard in a while,pls check out the theory of relativity and then lets discuss...

DeckXavier:
i am really tired of arguing with u guys,i thought i was even communicating untill doctorAlien asked me if time is necessary for existence,like seriously?its funny u know..how can laws governing the universe function without time?every single thing is a function of time,your thoughts are dependent on time too,god thinks doesnt he?he can never exist outside time

DoctorAlien:


Good. At least, you've taken one step out of delusion. The Universe was created, and didn't pop out of nothing.

True, too, you don't know Who created the universe. One day, you will know Him.

DoctorAlien:


That Person about Whom you always have sleepless nights, and stay awake by 2 am just to hate on Nairaland.

akintom:



Why must you always, and deliberately, ridicule yourself and religion, unabashed?

I simply asked you - since you DoctorAlien, now know for FACT, that SOMETHING, that created the universe, can you please explain to me, the FACT of the SOMETHING.

All that your best could present, is to descend into buffoonery.

My conclusion on you and most of your likes (felixomor, Promise10, naijadeyhia, kingebukasblog etc) on NL, is that you all, are folks who just BELIEVED a BELIEF, without a personal KNOWLEDGE, UNDERSTANDING or CONVICTION.

A simple task of asking you to presenting your gaseous God intelligently, has always set your mental alignment in tangles.

All you know best to do, on this platform, is get into the rathole copy and paste, of pseudoscientific nonsense from creationist sites.

If you can't understand all scientific theories, that concerns the probable origin of life, as put forward by the scientists in that field of knowledge, how else shall i help your difficulty?

I am not like you, who claim to know EVERYTHING, except ONE rational thing.

CoolUsername:
The laws of physics are just a method of describing the way things happen in the universe.

Normal physics is used to describe events on the atomic level and up but it isn't absolute.

Once we get to the subatomic level, the laws of normal physics get broken all willy-nilly and we describe that as quantum mechanics. Here, particles pop in and out is existence for no reason.

The problem with these laws is that they make for an extremely chaotic Universe, there is no rhyme or reason to most events and a lot of phenomena are caused by pure luck. Therefore, there is little evidence pointing towards a Grand Design. But some insist that such a complex Universe cannot be an accident.

By that logic, then a Grand Designer couldn't have occurred by accident too, so wouldn't it require one itself? If it does, we go into an infinite regress. If it doesn't, then what property does it possess to make it so and why isn't that property applicable to the Universe or some precursor?

The only reason why we're here asking whether all this could be a coincidence is because, well... we are here. We cannot know the number of 'failed' outcomes before us if there were even any failed outcomes before us.

But what about a god who started the process but only uses natural process to perform its actions? Well, such a god would be apathetic, impersonal and extremely chaotic, then why call it a God?

Sorry for the long rant but I just wanted to show you I (an agnostic atheist) address all these existential questions. This is purely my logic, different people will come up their own conclusions and that's fine. It is only when people claim to know the answer for certain that I will ask for proof.

felixomor:



Abeg keep quiet, deluded one.

See what your loneliness is bringing upon u?

akintom:



1. The only person(s) who calls rational folk deluded, is a clinical case of deluded folk (felixomor).

2. The person(s) who suspect loneliness, without expert diagnostic knowledge is a quack/herbalist (felixomor).

UyiIredi:


The universe is ordered not chaotic. There is evidence e from fine-tuning about Grand Design and such designer is uncaused.

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear....

CoolUsername:


I dunno, probably doesn't involve sky fairies though.

wirinet:


The universe is a very chaotic place, there are only isolated areas of temporary order which in the end will descend into the general chaos.