OPCNAIRALAND:
Where is pazienza, feed your eyes on these pictures.

The first one and second picture you see beside the nice yummy brea.sts for good squeeze and suck and their hairdo nothing else on the girls in this Igbo picture is impressive. Look at their feet and the metal plates. You also see some ivory on them but no coral beads.

The third picture is an Igbo woman taken in the 60s, (sixties) you see the george and the blouse. No beads, no gele, no buba.

The fourth picture is a Yoruba woman taken in the 50s (fifties). You see she wore velvet, in different style to the one I posted earlier. For this and the earlier Yoruba woman you see the elaborate adornment with gold jewelries on ears, around neck, on wrist and fingers. It is easy as well to tell class, civilization and beauty. If the lady in second picture had been wearing english gown and not iro and buba it would be impossible to identify as Yoruba because of the setting and style....sophisticated!
Im sure you heard that word before.

The presentation you've put together can be easily done for other groups of women, obviously the lace blouse isn't an African inventions, so the 50's photograph isn't really relevant.

Ijebu women

OPCNAIRALAND:


This picture highlights the problem I outlined earlier in regards to traditional Ibo clothing and style.

This woman wears damask, but we know damask is not an Ibo material. She has beads but we also know thats not an Ibo jewelry. Mention damask and we know you are talking about Yoruba, mention coral beads and we knoq you are referring to Edo and proto Edo culturea.

So what explains why this Igbo woman is wearing outfits that are foreign to Ibo culture? Is this another evidence of acculturation or assimilation and borrowing of foreign clothings and style?

The problem now, like before, is that you're listing two imported objects as invented or original African artefacts. We know, or we should know, that coral beads are from the Mediterranean and was used by the Portuguese as a trading item in the Niger Delta. Damask is obviously not an African material so the idea that that is an influence from another African culture is false.

These are women from Onitsha in 1880.



These are women from Onitsha in 1905.

OPCNAIRALAND:


dont make me vex load pictures of your fathers in Onitsha shortly after amalgamation. Its not pretty!

Why dont you just upload a picture of yourself right now and let me upload mine


Btw your fathers after amalgamation had tiger tribal marks on their faces, charms on their waists, black ugly gorilla looking witches for wives, were always on the run from Ijebu head hunters and if not for colonization, your tibe was about to be wiped out by the fulani muslim jihadists who had already conquered Ilorin and were only stopped by the whites, if not they would have killed you all and turned the remaining to muslims

galeiiTNA:



Why dont you just upload a picture of yourself right now and let me upload mine


Btw your fathers after amalgamation had tiger tribal marks on their faces, charms on their waists, black ugly gorilla looking witches for wives, were always on the run from Ijebu head hunters and if not for colonization, your tibe was about to be wiped out by the fulani muslim jihadists who had already conquered Ilorin and were only stopped by the whites, if not they would have killed you all and turned the remaining to muslims

ezeagu:


You're confirming a stereotype...

Wax prints existed all over Nigeria and the process of making batik is much different and more superior to simple indigo on white cotton tie and dye. Please look up Indonesian batik, furthermore ankara is printed.

Simple indigo you say? The several colours that were displayed above is what? You're talking bullshite!

Ankara looks similar to adire and Yoruba were the first to adopt it and make it popular before other folks jumps to it! Kapish!

galeiiTNA:



Why dont you just upload a picture of yourself right now and let me upload mine


Btw your fathers after amalgamation had tiger tribal marks on their faces, charms on their waists, black ugly gorilla looking witches for wives, were always on the run from Ijebu head hunters and if not for colonization, your tibe was about to be wiped out by the fulani muslim jihadists who had already conquered Ilorin and were only stopped by the whites, if not they would have killed you all and turned the remaining to muslims

Ibo's tribal marks were even worst! The fact that you're ashamed of such marks today tells about your inferiority complex! The woman that sells provisions to me has that mark and I was even thinking she was Yoruba until she told me she's ibo! Her husband has the same too!

ezeagu:


The presentation you've put together can be easily done for other groups of women, obviously the lace blouse isn't an African inventions, so the 50's photograph isn't really relevant.

Ijebu women

The 50s picture is very relevant. Her adornment has meaning and history, it speaks overall of the society she is a member of.

Im glad you brought out this picture of Ijebu women. For a very long time explorers had asked permission to enter into the sanctum of Yoruba Temples and their request was always turned down. Around 1940s the restrictions were a bit relaxed due to influence from Yoruba scholars who wanted to document for anthropological records and history. So access were given into the outer rooms to allow pictures, interviews and sometimes observation of cult rituals.

This was one of the recordings of high priests of a female cult in the Sungbo Temple. This is their regalia when in the Temple.

Sungbo is formaly referred as Bilikisu Sungbo. She is the famous Queen who bore a child for King Solomon of the dynasty of King David. Her resting place is in Eredo.

The woman in foreground sits with feet rested on a log. In other words, in a state of divine purity, with a tefillin resting on her head and bears the star of david and other insignias of office. She is the high priest. Others to her left and right are ranking mystics in varying degrees of ascension or mysticism. Outside the Temple they will dress in normal clothes with a shawl draped on the shoulder to indicate they belong in Sungbo temple.

OPCNAIRALAND:


The 50s picture is very relevant. Her adornment has meaning and history, it speaks overall of the society she is a member of.

Im glad you brought out this picture of Ijebu women. For a very long time explorers had asked permission to enter into the sanctum of Yoruba Temples and their request was always turned down. Around 1940s the restrictions were a bit relaxed due to influence from Yoruba scholars who wanted to document for anthropological records and history. So access were given into the outer rooms to allow pictures, interviews and sometimes observation of cult rituals.

This was one of the recordings of high priests of a female cult in the Sungbo Temple. This is their regalia when in the Temple.

Sungbo is formaly referred as Bilikisu Sungbo. She is the famous Queen who bore a child for King Solomon of the dynasty of King David. Her resting place is in Eredo.

The woman in foreground sits with feet rested on a log. In other words, in a state of divine purity, with a tefillin resting on her head and bears the star of david and other insignias of office. She is the high priest. Others to her left and right are ranking mystics in varying degrees of ascension or mysticism. Outside the Temple they will dress in normal clothes with a shawl draped on the shoulder to indicate they belong in Sungbo temple.

Okay, these ones then:





http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1410377&partId=1

Kagawa10:


Simple indigo you say? The several colours that were displayed above is what? You're talking bullshite!

Ankara looks similar to adire and Yoruba were the first to adopt it and make it popular before other folks jumps to it! Kapish!

You may be visually impaired, so let's compare them side by side.

Indonesian batik:



Ankara:



Adire:



Don't try and stretch some kind of relationship between both fabrics to form some kind of point that's going nowhere. Ankara was introduced by Europeans, you have to be really silly to try and claim the origins of such a thing. What we're talking about here is style and type of uses, in this case the style in aso ebi.

ezeagu:


You may be visually impaired, so let's compare them side by side.

Indonesian batik:



Ankara:



Adire:



Don't try and stretch some kind of relationship between both fabrics to form some kind of point that's going nowhere. Ankara was introduced by Europeans, you have to be really silly to try and claim the origins of such a thing. What we're talking about here is style and type of uses, in this case the style in aso ebi.

It's like you have basic comprehension issues or maybe you're just stupid!

I stated that we were the first to accept Ankara and incorporated the techniques because the fabrics looked similar to the local ones we produced here. And for your info, Adire comes with several different colours! It's not just limited to one unlike you implied!

ezeagu:


Okay, these ones then:





http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/collection_object_details.aspx?objectId=1410377&partId=1

I think I already confirmed that you're really stupid!

If that's not some cloth at their waist, what are they?

Your stupidity can't even deduce that last pics must have been some form of festive of gods or some women getting naked to curse someone, just look at the well dressed people behind them for crying out loud! Besides, they still have clothes on, not leaves unlike the Ibos!

Kagawa10:


It's like you have basic comprehension issues or maybe you're just stupid!

I stated that we were the first to accept Ankara and incorporated the techniques because the fabrics looked similar to the local ones we produced here. And for your info, Adire comes with several different colours! It's not just limited to one unlike you implied!

This is a very far-fetched assertion and tie-dye is never the same thing as batik, you still cannot compare the fabrics you posted above to the intricate batiks from Indonesia or the printed ankara.

This is a picture of Igbo women from Arochukwu settlements in the 1900s, the woman on the right is clearly wearing imported cloth, so there's no such thing as another African group influencing the Igbo in tastes for European fashion unless it's the people in the delta.

Kagawa10:

I think I already confirmed that you're really stupid!
If that's not some cloth at their waist, what are they?
Your stupidity can't even deduce that last pics must have been some form of festive of gods or some women getting naked to curse someone, just look at the well dressed people behind them for crying out loud! Besides, they still have clothes on, not leaves unlike the Ibos!

Be pissed off at OPCNAIRALAND instead who was the person trying to put a false presentation together to prove another kind of goalless point which needed to be debunked. There are pictures already posted here with Igbo women and their indigenous cloths so you're not making any sensible point.

Kagawa10:


Ibo's tribal marks were even worst! The fact that you're ashamed of such marks today tells about your inferiority complex! The woman that sells provisions to me has that mark and I was even thinking she was Yoruba until she told me she's ibo! Her husband has the same too!

Everybody knows igbos dont have tribal marks - except the imaginary igbo woman in you area you made up cos afonjas cant win an argument with facts except by lying, propaganda and insults

Anyway till you post pictures

ezeagu:


This is a very far-fetched assertion and tie-dye is never the same thing as batik, you still cannot compare the fabrics you posted above to the intricate batiks from Indonesia or the printed ankara.

This is a picture of Igbo women from Arochukwu settlements in the 1900s, the woman on the right is clearly wearing imported cloth, so there's no such thing as another African group influencing the Igbo in tastes for European fashion unless it's the people in the delta.





Be pissed off at OPCNAIRALAND instead who was the person trying to put a false presentation together to prove another kind of goalless point which needed to be debunked. There are pictures already posted here with Igbo women and their indigenous cloths so you're not making any sensible point.

I never said they are the same! I said they are similar to the locals we have and seeing them at that time, we had no problem accepting them and incorporating the techniques. Today, several kinds of Ankara are being made at Ibadan!

No doubt the dutch print had influence on ours but even the dutch had to tailored theirs to meet with african desired patterns!

That said, you haven't debunked anything.. Yoruba were found with clothes before colonialism. The poor may put it on just their waist while the rich wore the full attire, but one major fact is we weren't seen with leaves!

galeiiTNA:



Everybody knows igbos dont have tribal marks - except the imaginary igbo woman in you area you made up cos afonjas cant win an argument with facts except by lying, propaganda and insults

Anyway till you post pictures

www.nairaland.com/attachments/4542552_mark1_jpeg_jpegeda5178fd7ac6f487f12670f1c85df68

That's an ibo's tribal mark! It's called ichi!

Can you see why I said yours is even worst and that your people suffers from inferiority complex?

Kagawa10:


www.nairaland.com/attachments/4542552_mark1_jpeg_jpegeda5178fd7ac6f487f12670f1c85df68

That's an ibo's tribal mark! It's called ichi!

Can you see why I said yours is even worst and that your people suffers from inferiority complex?

Lmfao. Ichi ko scratchy ni. Yorubas never leave their covens in the sw to travel and see other parts of Nigeria definitely are not very versed with cultures around Nigeria

Anyway, gotten from Yorupedia.com
http://yorupedia.com/subjects/education/yoruba-tribal-marks/
You guys gave tribal marks to spirit children who fell sick alot and were about being killed by your demonic ancestors

galeiiTNA:


Lmfao. Ichi ko scratchy ni. Yorubas never leave their covens in the sw to travel and see other parts of Nigeria definitely are not very versed with cultures around Nigeria

Anyway, gotten from Yorupedia.com
http://yorupedia.com/subjects/education/yoruba-tribal-marks/
You guys gave tribal marks to spirit children who fell sick alot and were about being killed by your demonic ancestors

I'm not denying that, am I?

However, for you not to know that Ibo had tribal marks (Ichi) shows how ignorant you are or how you must have been suffering from inferiority complex to have denied it.

Kagawa10:


I never said they are the same! I said they are similar to the locals we have and seeing them at that time, we had no problem accepting them and incorporating the techniques. Today, several kinds of Ankara are being made at Ibadan!

No doubt the dutch print had influence on ours but even the dutch had to tailored theirs to meet with african desired patterns!

That said, you haven't debunked anything.. Yoruba were found with clothes before colonialism. The poor may put it on just their waist while the rich wore the full attire, but one major fact is we weren't seen with leaves!

Okay, and the Dutch wax print was introduced to other areas of west Africa, so what's you point?

What is the significant point about these leaves you're talking about, both of the groups were found with textiles so what are you on about?

Kagawa10:


I'm not denying that, am I?

However, for you not to know that Ibo practised Ichi shows how ignorant you are or how you must have been suffering from inferiority complex to have denied it.

Whoever told you Igbos have tribal marks lied to you. You guys always lie to yourselves about Igbo culture when you know nothing about us. Oga bye

Kagawa10:


www.nairaland.com/attachments/4542552_mark1_jpeg_jpegeda5178fd7ac6f487f12670f1c85df68

That's an ibo's tribal mark! It's called ichi!

Can you see why I said yours is even worst and that your people suffers from inferiority complex?

What part of Igboland is that child from? Stop it.

This is ichi, it's not a tribal mark but a mark of rank that's undertaken by the bearer by choice in their adulthood.

ezeagu:


What part of Igboland is that child from? Stop it.

This is ichi, it's not a tribal mark but a mark of rank that's undertaken by the bearer by choice in their adulthood.

See the guys fresh Afro punk haircut

ezeagu:


Okay, and the Dutch wax print was introduced to other areas of west Africa, so what's you point?

What is the significant point about these leaves you're talking about, both of the groups were found with textiles so what are you on about?

My point is we've always have something close to ankara, which is adire and ankara coming in to replace them doesn't negate the fact that Yoruba were the ones known to wear such.

On your second statement, Yoruba were distinctly found with clothes, not leaves nor animal skins.

ezeagu:


What part of Igboland is that child from? Stop it.

This is ichi, it's not a tribal mark but a mark of rank that's undertaken by the bearer by choice in their adulthood.

That tribal marks looks close to ichi than Yoruba tribal marks.

And like I stated earlier, the woman in the provision store close to us has a huge tribal mark on her face and on the face of her husband and they are both ibos!

Kagawa10:


My point is we've always have something close to ankara, which is adire and ankara coming in to replace them doesn't negate the fact that Yoruba were the ones known to wear such.

On your second statement, Yoruba were distinctly found with clothes, not leaves nor animal skins.

Well, that's okay, as long as we know that ankara is not indigenously African.

Okay, I was just wondering why you needed to point out that leaves weren't worn when neither of the groups we're talking about wore leaves nor animal skins for daily casual clothing.

ezeagu:


Well, that's okay, as long as we know that ankara is not indigenously African.

Okay, I was just wondering why you needed to point out that leaves weren't worn when neither of the groups we're talking about wore leaves nor animal skins for daily casual clothing.

Nope, some old pics of the ibos shows them wearing animal hides and leaves!

Kagawa10:


That tribal marks looks close to ichi than Yoruba tribal marks.

And like I stated earlier, the woman in the provision store close to us has a huge tribal mark on her face and on the face of her husband and they are both ibos!

The earlier picture is quite graphic and looks nothing like ichi which is quite fine and intricate whereas the former looks like it was hacked into the child. Again ichi isn't tribal or ethnic, it's a mark of rank taken on by choice which has virtually faded away in the last century.

I don't know any other Igbo ethnic mark used today that can be described as "huge" as you're implying, the ethnic marks were only used briefly during the slave trade by riverine Igbo people, apart from that the only surviving facial marks are the small medicinal marks some people have by their temples which are only noticeable in most cases upfront.

Kagawa10:


Nope, some old pics of the ibos shows them wearing animal hides and leaves!

Where are the pictures?

ezeagu:


The earlier picture is quite graphic and looks nothing like ichi which is quite fine and intricate whereas the former looks like it was hacked into the child. Again ichi isn't tribal or ethnic, it's a mark of rank taken on by choice which has virtually faded away in the last century.

I don't know any other Igbo ethnic mark used today that can be described as "huge" as you're implying, the ethnic marks were only used briefly during the slave trade by riverine Igbo people, apart from that the only surviving facial marks are the small medicinal marks some people have by their temples which are only noticeable in most cases upfront.

But how comes the ibo woman and her husband close to us has these huge tribal marks on their face? At first, I thought they were Oyo people but I realised their Yoruba accent looks strange, so I asked them and they said they are ibo and I've seen them speaks ibo language too.

I swear I should not have commented but I must say that yoruba are the most primitive tribe! they hardly travel out, imagine how surprised the op is. about the "Ichafu" by our women! unlike you we know that you call it aso ebi, because we travel and have learnt that.. my grandmother wears ichafu, and what they call "gorge" there are akwaete cloths that can be found amongst igbo people to, they are purely igbo made unlike your imported own, we wear lace too, though it is gradually fading away! there is more of what we call senator amongst igbo guys... y'all are very myopic.. when you leave your enclave, you will realise that we don't eat, drink, engage with same thing you do over their in the west! East is a totally different places in all facets... if you're blind folded and was taken to igbo from west... you will know that you're in a different world!! we are not same!

ezeagu:

Where are the pictures?

The one displayed by OPC can't be compared to yours!

in addition to what I have written! let it be known that igbos are busy people that have little or no time for frivolities! we are always committed,and not some owambe nonsense!

Kagawa10:


But how comes the ibo woman and her husband close to us has these huge tribal marks on their face? At first, I thought they were Oyo people but I realised their Yoruba accent looks strange, so I asked them and they said they are ibo and I've seen them speaks ibo language too.

I don't know, maybe she says she's Igbo for convenience, although I don't know any other group in the east that has such marks.

For the record, bringing up this information does not reflect any taste or dislike for ethnic marks so I don't take 'accusations' of ethnic marking as an insult, I think they can look quite good and is a tradition embedded in African civilisation, just setting the record straight that's all. The same goes for nudity.