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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:18pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:Pogba trained with Pirlo everyday, traveled to games on the same bus, watched match reviews and shared dressing rooms with him. He will be stupid not to learn alot from Pirlo in the 3 years they played together. Some things are not coach able. Its either you're born with it or you're not. Pogba is a b2b midfielder. He can never control a midfield like Zidane, Xavi, schooles, Pirlo or even Fabregas. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:25pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: By the way, you are misusing words. Are you saying, all these years, Victor Moses stagnated? One thing I learnt over the years is that, talent does not rot. A good example is Mikel. Despite playing as a four for club or country over the years, when Keshi moved him to ten, he blossomed. He did not stagnate. Adama Traore got some of the best education at Barcelona. After that, he went on a hunt for playing time. He is showing so much promise because without playing time with Barca's main team, he gained a lot learning from their Wonderful coaches. The influence of training with the likes of Iniesta and Messi. Without La Masia academy, Traore will not be the kind of player he is today. Education first. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:26pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: Coulibaly got injured playing for Aston Villa, by the time he came back, the team was in 5's and 6's.. That's why I described the deal as a bad move for him. Moses bounced off on loan to seek first team football. Brenda Rogers tossed him to the bench at Liverpool, he was decent for Mark Hughes at Stoke but for injury, he was on fire whenever he stepped on the pitch for Westham,which was few and far in between due to injuries again. Moses have had an injury plagued career so far. I hope the Chelsea doctors and physio look after him so he can have an injury free season |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:29pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: Train is not the same thing as sit down and watch. Get it. Sit down and watch. Unless you can show me Pogba sitting down to study Pirlo's game style and a coach who trained players like Scholes and Pirlo. You can not prove Pogba had the kind of training Ferguson had in mind for Pogba. Ferguson noticed Pogba had the talent to be an all round midfielder. Brought Scholes back from retirement and wanted Pogba to study Scholes. He refused and went to shine. Today, it is accepted, he did not learn the lesson. Finito. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by zicky(m): 11:29pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
From today's City match with Chelsea, I could see what Lord Guardiola is teaching our Iheanacho in training. Guardiola well done, God is watching you chai 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:31pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: Despite not playing lots of games over the years, Victor Moses did not stagnate as you claimed. Adama Traore did not stagnate. So Iheanacho is not stagnating. Finish. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:35pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:LOL.. Schweinsteiger has always been a deep lying playmaker from day one. I watched his emergence prior to the 2006 world cup. When he replaced Tosten Frings, I think. Schweinsteiger doesn't play b2b, rather Micheal Ballack played B2b while Schweinsteiger and Frings controls the game from deep. Pogba is like Ballack, he needs a deep lying playmaker to function properly. That's why Mourin is interested in getting Mikel Obi. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:38pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: Na wa. Pogba needs a deep lying playmaker, because he can not control the midfield. Finish. He missed a chance to learn how to control the midfield because of his eagerness for Glory. Finito. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:42pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:Let's push semantics and not elevate Ferguson like he knew it all. Ferguson have in his time had world class players stagnate under his watchful eyes. Iheanacho is facing same problem Diego Forlan faced at Man Utd. Forlan had decent goal to game ratio for man utd but he found himself perpetually on the bench for Rud Van Nisteroy. Forlan left for Villareal and later Athletico Madrid where he won more than 3 pichichi's. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:48pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:I've been erroneously referring to him as Coulibaly. Some of these Franco phone names confuse me. Diarra, Diawarra etc Truth is that Traore wouldn't have developed if he was comfortable on the Barca bench or with the team B. Martin Caeseres had to move on loan to Juve to fulfil his potential because the minutes aren't coming at Barcelona. There are lots of examples |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:49pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: Did you see how you jumped the whole education and put Pichichi on leaving. You neglected the hours every day in training Manuel Pellegrini faced with Forlan. You missed that Forlan had a fallout with Ferguson because he was not ready to train with Iron studs. Forlan was lucky that after his fallout with Ferguson, he had a coach like Pellegrini who took extra hours to keep working on Forlan. There is an educational stage. Iheanacho is still learning. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:52pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
goldfish80: Adama Traore developed at Barcelona. He is showing what he learnt at Middlesbrough. The development is not the games you play. The coach spend hours in training preparing the team for the match. The match is to show what the team learnt. Not to learn. Yes, players learn on the training pitch but the growth is not close to what goes on in training. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 11:56pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
Patience my friends Patience. Learning takes time.
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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:57pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:You have finally landed. Now you're talking. Forlan didn't believe only Ferguson could improve him and just sat at Manchester. He moved to a then very small club, Villareal. Where he met someone who believed in him and dedicated time to train him and get him game time, while at Man Utd, he was just a training cone and a sub who came in every 88'minute. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 11:57pm On Dec 03, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:You have finally landed. Now you're talking. Forlan didn't believe only Ferguson could improve him and just sat at Manchester. He moved to a then very small club, Villareal. Where he met someone who believed in him and dedicated time to train him and got him game time, while at Man Utd, he was just a training cone and a sub who came in every 88'minute. You see the difference? You can draw same parallel line with iheanacho. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 12:08am On Dec 04, 2016 |
goldfish80: At Manchester United, Forlan was not just a training cone. He was a special project. However, Forlan was eager to impress on the field than take in the lessons. He had poor games with the iron studs and switched them to rubber. When Ferguson found out, they had a fallout. With time, Forlan would have adjusted to the boots and Ferguson would have moulded Forlan to his taste. Fortunately, he landed with Pellegrini who knew what he wanted from Forlan and it worked. However, there are not many coaches like Pellegrini. With Guardiola, we have a coach with a history of bringing the best in players. There is no need leaving. Spend time in training. Learn and then seek playing time. For now, I do not think this is the time to clamour for playing time. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon4s(m): 5:44am On Dec 04, 2016 |
zicky: Fighting! 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by zicky(m): 6:24am On Dec 04, 2016 |
Icon4s: |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 6:41am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: Iheanacho is at a stage where he needs regular run of games, not just training. He's no longer an academy lad. At this stage of their development, Lukaku and Kevin de Bryn went into the woods. If Kevin de Bryn didn't leave Chelsea and have the seasons he had on loan at wolfsburg, he would be at the level of Lucas Piazon who sat at Chelsea and missed a critical part of his development. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 7:22am On Dec 04, 2016 |
goldfish80: You forgot that Piazon also left for regular playing time. That did not help him progress. The problem at Chelsea was that the quick fire sacking of coaches did not help build youngsters. It was not only Piazon that suffered. Gael Kakuta, Lukaku, Moses, Bertrand, Van Aanholt, Josh McEachran and many others. Where these guys would have improved rapidly was under Benitez. In that few months he was at Chelsea, we were seeing the youngsters developing. Moses, Bertrand, Van Aanholt looked so promising but Benitez leaving hindered their progress. It was not playing time that caused such improvements but the time Benitez spent on the training field working with them. I am not saying playing time does not help but the main work goes on on the training pitch. Lukaku needed a coach like Wenger to mould him into a World Class player. However, the loan for glory slowed his trajectory of his growth. The playing time for Nacho will come but he needs to improve drastically on the training pitch. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by AIG07: 7:27am On Dec 04, 2016 |
zicky:That's what frustration can do to a player. I was just SMH where I sat yesterday. I was like is this d same nacho I know? Well now that Aguero is out for 3games let see what pep will do. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 7:28am On Dec 04, 2016 |
goldfish80: City has a poor conversion rate and I expect Guardiola to keep drilling them in training to improve. So, to improve the team's conversion rate will require work on the training ground. After that, the game time is to show or test how far the team progressed. Not necessarily to improve the players finishing. Nacho will learn more from these drills. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by tbaba1234: 7:42am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: This argument is running in circles. Man city is not the only team that does drills. He can do many of those drills elsewhere with regular football. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 8:32am On Dec 04, 2016 |
tbaba1234: I wonder how you got that I said, Manchester City is the only team that does drills. Other teams do. I said, most improvement, comes from the training pitch and not match games. Guardiola is a coach he knows drills and routines to improve players. I am interested in Iheanacho working and training under Guardiola more than playing time. There are other fantastic managers like Klopp, Benitez, Wenger, Simeone and Zidane. Among all of them, Guardiola has a history of improving players at a fast rate. At this time, Nacho has the opportunity to learn from one of the best in the history of the game. This lessons is more important than the glory from playing time. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 8:35am On Dec 04, 2016 |
tbaba1234: Guardiola set up this drill for Bayern Munich youngsters to improve their passing ability. The improvement form such a drill is far higher than playing matches. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75y-uxmK_FM |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by tbaba1234: 8:49am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: How exactly? It is just a drill. There is nothing special in it. Games are completely different. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 8:54am On Dec 04, 2016 |
tbaba1234: It I complex but during games, the player make those passes in that pattern until build up play becomes natural in the players. This makes decision making faster and improve the natural passing of the players improve. It is not just a drill. It also gives the players options of movement during games. That is not just a drill. It is special. Below is the result of such drills. This was done by a Pellegrini Villarreal team against Barcelona. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX7rupwVDgY |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Kog45(m): 9:02am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:Pls do I need to be at d training or man city camp to express my opinion,if that's is d case your theoretical opinions on Guardiola and Iheanacho doesn't hold water coz u are not in d camp. I have been following your thread on Iheanacho training under Guardiola and how it w have a great effect on d young man and not having much games w not affect his fitness.Pls did u watched city vs Chelsea?then u w understand peoples opinions on Nacho not having a playing time even for 20 to 30 mins w not be good for his development,forget all this your hype that he is learning under Guardiola. Most of d time u are trying to compare Mikel lack of playing time with Iheanacho.I want to tell u there is difference btw Mikel and d rest in d Eagles.Apart from talent d guy have 11 years experience as Chelsea and national team player which Iheanacho is lacking.And when we talk of talent which u always said is not easy to fade away,but mind u a talent sitting on d bench w rotten e.g.Mikel performance during last world cup was due to lack of playing time and for him to maintain his Eagles status he must leave Chelsea. Iheanacho at this stage cannot be a bench warmer under disguise of learning under Guadiola and be walking straight into d national team coz he lack d experience to be given such privilege.Rohr has said it with d exception of Mikel,he doesn't guarantee any Eagles's player automatic shirt.Do u know why Mikel talent cannot be compared to any present eagles players including Iheanacho and Iwobi is coz d guy is a class and thorough professional who understand d game so well. The issue of Iheanacho learning under Guardiola is baseless,are u saying Iheanacho under Pellegrin learnt nothing coz your assertion on this issue is out of hand and there is need to draw d curtains to it. Super Eagle we have a better nacho learning and still be playing under Guardiola not nacho watching from bench. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 9:10am On Dec 04, 2016 |
Kog45: Isco warms bench and you feel Iheanacho is too big to warm bench. Kovacic warms bench. Iwobi that had all the playing time, did he not drop form? Moses that warmed bench, did he not pick form? At this stage in Iheanacho's career, he needs nurture and training on the training field than playing time. I have giving loads of analogies to explain this. In Nigeria '99, the Costa Rican team had poor converting rate against Nigeria. The coach said he will take the team to the training pitch and drill them until they get it right. I watched some videos of the shooting drills the coach put the team on. In their next games, they improved. Improvement mostly comes from the training pitches. That is why coaches spend more time there than match games. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Kog45(m): 9:31am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:With due respect,pls stop comparing what is not comparable.Did i hear u saying pogba learnt nothing and using it to justify your opinion on Iheanacho issue is not acceptable. Am of d opinion that pogba is overrated but that did not take my respect for d Young man rise in football.He left man utd for juve and got d opportunity to learn a lot by playing with great player like pirlo and coached by world class coach. Pls tell me a player that Iheanacho gona learn from at man city!i mean a player like a coach on d field of play like pirlo,telling me pogba learnt nothing on how to control midfield is absurd or are u saying d guy should remain at man utd learning under a coach that did not give him much respect and rejected juve first team calling I do agree with your most opinions but on Iheanacho,my guy i disagreed. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Kog45(m): 9:41am On Dec 04, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe:Pls stop this or are u a lawyer,what is my business with Isco or kovacic.This thread belong to super eagle and we must express our opinions on how our players should grow to have smooth qualification and good world cup. My opinion still remain a better ihenacho playing even 20 to 30 mins and learning under Guardiola not nacho sitting on bench straight 5 matches. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by tbaba1234: 10:07am On Dec 04, 2016 |
Kelechi skills after drills. 7 Likes 1 Share
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