samstradam: @ Radoillo

How is this tied up with current/ancient Igbo beliefs?

Radoillo:

Well, igbos associate the High God with the Sun, that's for sure. He is sometimes called. Anyanwu na Agbala (ie the Sun and the Source of all fertilty). That could be what he meant by 'live in the sun).

The High God has no priests to make sacrifices to it. Only a few igbo communities are known for making sacrifices to The High God. So once could say 'God neither eats no drink'.

Its the part about tying a belt and smoking a pipe that is puzzling. And even funny! All I can say is Olauda was too young to understand the cosmology of his people. He probably added some 'fireside stories' to the description of his people's ritual system.

bigfrancis21:

Another thing you're forgetting here is that the Igbo people are a very dynamic people, changing and adopting easily to their environment. Olaudah described the manners and customs of the Igbo people(remember this was 1745!) that were practised long before Christianity came and changed everything. Christianity was introduced to Igboland which the Igbo people wholly embraced and within a space a century, Igboland underwent a tremendous change. If Olaudah(who died in his 50s) had lived to make it back to Igboland maybe in his 70s, he would have been shocked to see the differences in practices that had taken place since he left as a child. His being 70 years would equal to the year 1815(1745+70), which already by that time the Christianity had already been introduced.

Given the dynamicity of the Igbo people, one should not compare modern Igbo norms with those of old times because a lot has changed. When I mean a lot, I mean a lot.

A typical example would be the story of Okonkwo in Chinua Achebe's 'Things fall apart', a literature book showcasing the turn of events in Igboland following the introduction of Christianity, where Okonkwo who was sent on exile for 5 years returned only to discover that a lot had changed since he left.

Radoillo:

Thanks.

I'm still curious though. What aspects of the culture he described are more Edoid than Igbo?

samstradam: Unfortunately, personally I continue to share the view (that other scholars do to) that this man was a fake. The reason is that which such an apt recollection, especially at this time, we should easily be able to fully identify his ethnicity with both the etymology and cultural descriptions he wrote down those many years ago.[/b] Everytime I read his so called recollections, it just sounds like he cherry picked something from all the major ethnicities in coastal west Africa. It seems like mumblings, incoherent hearsays from real life slaves he probablly lived with while he was serving with them.[/b]

I do not think this man was Igbo (his customs sound more Edoid) let alone Nigerian. He just seems like a good story teller to me.

Radoillo:


Olaudah said the strangers who came to trade in their village were called 'Oye-Eboe' and means 'red men trading at a distance'. Before the 20th century, an Igbo-speaking stranger was derogatively called 'onye Igbo' by his host Igbo-speaking community. (That was before 'Igbo' came to be accepted as a generic name for all who speak related Igbo dialects).

samstradam:
Unfortunately, personally I
continue to share the view (that other scholars do
to) that this man was a fake. The reason is that
which such an apt recollection, especially at this
time, we should easily be able to fully identify his
ethnicity with both the etymology and cultural
descriptions he wrote down those many years ago.
Everytime I read his so called recollections, it
just sounds like he cherry picked something from
all the major ethnicities in coastal west Africa. It
seems like mumblings, incoherent hearsays from
real life slaves he probablly lived with while he
was serving with them.

I do not think this man was Igbo (his customs
sound more Edoid) let alone Nigerian. He just
seems like a good story teller to me.

Edo Warrior Kingdom Opposed Atlantic Slave Trade

By Naiwu Osahon

Although over 30 per cent (about a third) of the
Atlantic Slave Trade took place in the territory under
Edo control, the Bight of Benin region of West Africa, the territory was too vast for the kingdom to police on a day by day and minute by minute basis, to prevent the trade. It was taboo, however, to capture or sell an Edo citizen and because the kingdom reasonably monitored this well, the African Diaspora has no concentration of Edo citizen slaves. Edo Chiefs had thousands of slaves captured in their territorial expansion wars but would not sell any. The Edo belief and saying was: "What level of hunger and deprivation would make an Edo Chief sell his slaves?" Rather than sell, Edo Chiefs helped thousands of slaves to escape from White holding camps in Edo territory. In fact, Edo Oba Eresoyen was shot at in his palace by a White slave merchant because he refused to help with the re-capture of escapee slaves from the White merchant's holding camps, hiding in Edo Chiefs farms in Edo kingdom. European slave trade in West Africa started with the acquisition of domestic servants in 1522, and warrior kingdoms like Edo (Benin) had plenty of them captured as war booties, but would not sell them. The slave trade was very unpopular with the Edo people. They thought it was silly to sell fellow human beings. Their Obas and nobles were vehemently opposed to the business of slave trade and to the export of the productive fighting male. The Edo, of course, could not control the day to day happenings of the slave merchants, who apparently largely acted under cover at first in the vast territories under Edo hegemony. However, it was forbidden to sell or take a native Edo (Bini) into slavery and so elaborate identification
marks on faces and chests were eventually contrived. The Bini, therefore, were hardly ever captured by Arabs or Europeans into slavery.

Oba Ehengbuda (1578 - 1604 CE.) Ehengbuda
ascended his father's throne in 1578 CE. While his
father, Oba Orhogbua, might be considered a water
warrior who made his greatest impact in the lagoon
territories, Oba Ehengbuda campaigned mainly on
land in the Yoruba areas. All the warrior Obas, most times, personally led their troops to war. Oba Ehengbuda, while prosecuting his military activities in the Akure area, sustained burns which healed to leave scars on his body. This was systematized in the Iwu body marks which every Edo adult had to acquire to be able to participate in royal and court activities of the land. The markings also served to identify the Edo person for protection during the slave trade. Strong efforts were made to prevent Edo people from being sold into slavery. Edo
people openly and actively encouraged and facilitated the escape of slaves from the holding
centres in the kingdom and particularly from the
Ughoton port.

Alan Ryder, writing on this in his book: Benin and the European, narrated the experience of the Portuguese merchant, Machin Fernandes in Benin as early as 1522: That was during the reign of Oba Esigie.

"Of the whole cargo of 83 slaves bought by Machin
Fernandes, only two were males - and it is quite
possible that these were acquired outside the Oba's
territory - despite a whole month (at Ughoton) spent in vain attempts to have a market opened for male slaves. The 81 females, mostly between ten and twenty years of age, were purchased in Benin City between 25 June and 8 August at the rate of one, two or three a day."
None of the 83 slaves was an Edo person, according to Ryder, and no Edo person could have been involved in the sales. It was taboo in Edo culture.

Edo Empire was vast, with a great concentration of people from different ethnic backgrounds, Yoruba, Ibo, Itsekiri, Ijaw, Urhobo, Igalla etc., making a living in the lucrative Ughoton route that was the main centre of commercial activities in the southern area at the time, of what later became Nigeria.

PhysicsQED: @ Samstradam

Equiano was not Edo. I don't see where you're getting that idea from. The text makes it quite clear that he was Igbo.

The "ichi" marks that some Igbos had and which Equiano directly referenced by name are not the same as the Edo tribal marks by any means - they look quite different. The ichi marks were many small lines/grooves all over the forehead in diagonal and vertical patterns, while the Edo tribal marks were generally a few small marks above each of the eyebrows. The two big vertical marks which one can see on the queen Idia mask and on several other pieces of art from Benin are not depictions of tribal marks but an artistic emphasis/exaggeration of the two biggest creases/lines in the area between one's eyebrows when a person makes a very serious expression on their face. The purpose of those marks in the art was to show that the person represented was a determined/serious person.

Having fights, skirmishes, or full-blown wars, etc. was not exclusive to any ethnic group in the past, and with the likely exception of queen Idia, women generally did not take part in actual physical combat in the past among the Bini - at least there's no evidence of that which I know of.

Esu was never considered the main God or creator God of the Edo or any other group in Nigeria. Wherever that "pipe smoking god as the supreme deity" idea came from, it's doubtful that it was obtained from an Edo person.

samstradam: BTW, are you contradicting yourself here?



So are you saying a typical Nri man captured from his village in lets say the 18th century would have not identified himself as Igbo, let alone the Province of Igbo, but from his village- just like a typical Ijebuman captured at that time would not have described himself as Yoruba?

Radoillo:
Are u also saying Edo women fought battles? Queen Idia took to the field in person? I thought it was a slave (male slave) of the queen who fought on her mistress's behalf.

PhysicsQED: Edit: I see the typo was corrected, so no need for this comment now.

bigfrancis21: @Radoillo, PhysicsQED

It is quite clear that during the slave trade, the 2 areas where slaves were purchased from Nigeria are Bight of Bonny and Bight of Benin. Now it is generally accepted that Igbo/Ibibio slaves came from Bight of Bonny(which included Bonny port and Calabar Port) while Yoruba, Fon, Ewe slaves came from Bight of Benin(Lagos port, Whydah etc).

From the evidence below, it is clear that the Edo did not sell their own and a slave merchant recorded that he bought 83 slaves in Benin city. Bight of Benin was noted to be under Edo control and the Edo empire covered not just Edo land, but Ibo, Yoruba, Urhobo, Ijaw, Igala lands. Asking deeper, those 83 slaves purchased in Benin city, what tribes could they have belonged to? What ethnicities comprised of the 83 people?

Since the Edo empire covered parts of Ibo land, is it also likely that some Ibos were among the 83 slaves purchased in Benin city?

If that's the case, then Ibo slaves were not only taken from the Bight of Bonny. A small percentage could have also been smuggled out from the Bight of Benin.

What are your thoughts on this?

bigfrancis21: @Radoillo, PhysicsQED

Since the Edo empire covered parts of Ibo land, is it also likely that some Ibos were among the 83 slaves purchased in Benin city?

If that's the case, then Ibo slaves were not only taken from the Bight of Bonny. A small percentage could have also been smuggled out from the Bight of Benin.

What are your thoughts on this?

bigfrancis21:



Apparently, the post is too long to be quoted by mobile phone users browsing nairaland. That's why no one has done so yet!

ngozievergreen:
ok nah.
Ka mu chebezianu ndi ji laptop ene browsing.
Ihe mu ma bu, onye quotuo ihe ahu niile, o hu na uguru na-atu oyi.
Ma e gosi ya ihe di iche na nkita igbo na nkita onyibo.

Some scholars believe 'Essaka' is actually 'Isseke', a town in Anambra state. And there are some details which support that he came from that general area (ie central Igboland, not too far north, not too far south.

As for whether Olaudah's Eboe is actually today's Igbo, I think Olauda himself left enough linguistic information for us to assert that it is one and the same people.

Olaudah said his people called year Aa-affoe. Igbos today still call year 'Afo'.

Olaudah said his name means'...loud voice...'. 'Loud voice in today's Igbo is 'Oluuda'.

Olaudah said the men who were in charge of the calendar in his village were called 'Aa-ffoe way-cah' or 'yearly men'. Aaffoe waycah is clearly 'Afo nwoke'. That's not d way a modern Igbo would say it, but the words are clearly Igbo.

Olaudah said the strangers who came to trade in their village were called 'Oye-Eboe' and means 'red men trading at a distance'. Before the 20th century, an Igbo-speaking stranger was derogatively called 'onye Igbo' by his host Igbo-speaking community. (That was before 'Igbo' came to be accepted as a generic name for all who speak related Igbo dialects).

My point is, there's no doubt that Olaudah's Eboe are ethnologically and geographically the same as the modern Igbo people.

bigfrancis21:


Ahfoe wayca is actually 'afor nwa ika', for ancient 'yearly men' who were noted for their short height. That's what Olaudah meant by 'ah foe waycah'.

'oye-eboe' he meant 'oyibo'. Among igbos today, 'oyibo' is pronounced like 'oyiibo', the middle 'i' is extended. My guess is Olaudah spelt it as exactly as it was pronounced. He also gave the meaning as 'red-skinned...' thus referring to the 'oyibo' as we know it today. further more, 'onye igbo' when used by certain clans to describe others isn't often due to 'skin color', but rather as a matter of ancestry.

No contradiction there, pal. Igbos of the 18th century living in Igboland did not self-identify as Igbo. The igbo identity grew in diaspora where slaves from various parts of Igboland met and recognized their commonalities and subsumed it under one label 'Igbo' or 'Eboe' (By the way, though the igbos didn't call themselves Igbo, their neighbours DID call them that). A man who has accepted that label (Eboe) would look back and say he was born in 'Igboland" (what he called the province of Eboe). In Sierra Leone (19th century), Koelle and Schon studied igbo language with Igbo ex-slaves. Most of these slaves self-identified as Igbos, but some admitted they never heard that word used in their homeland.

Equiano telling us they called some strange men from faraway 'Oye-Eboe (Onye Igbo) fits with what I know to be the precolonial usage of the word 'Igbo' within Igboland.

If you say he constructed his biography from stories he heard from Edos and Igbos, you should be able to at least show Edoisms in his work. You keep mentioning the marks on his forehead; and I find it surprising you didn't know that Northern and Western Igbos made such marks on their head until some 60 - 70 years ago. I once saw the marks of an old man in Nimo, Anambra State. Google ichi marks, mehn.

Are u also saying Edo women fought battles? Queen Idia took to the field in person? I thought it was a slave (male slave) of the queen who fought on her mistress's behalf.

A boy who left his society when he was eleven would grow to forget a lot of things. No one said his memory would be completely wiped off. I really don't see how I contradicted myself there.

You have obviously decided to accept he wasn't born Igbo. Cool. Scholars disagree. But note, he started calling himself Eboe long before he wrote his story. There are letters that show he did. So one can't claim he assumed igboness just to tell a story.

There's a ring of consistency in that work that gives it an air of authenticity. I won't go into that. I feel it will be time wasting. But if his story was based solely on bits and pieces he picked up in the new world, I would expect the book to be much more jumbled than it is. I maintain there's an INNER CONSISTENCY in that work that I just can't dismiss.

Vincent has done a good work showing us that OLauda once said he was born in Carolina (there are good reasons why a slave would claim American birth). As a free man he claimed igbo birth (Why would he do that? Igbos weren't the most liked Africans in the New World. Why didn't he claim Mande or Akan or Kongo). Why are some scholars more inclined to accept the Carolina story and disregard the Igbo story?

Well, igbos associate the High God with the Sun, that's for sure. He is sometimes called. Anyanwu na Agbala (ie the Sun and the Source of all fertilty). That could be what he meant by 'live in the sun).

The High God has no priests to make sacrifices to it. Only a few igbo communities are known for making sacrifices to The High God. So once could say 'God neither eats no drink'.

Its the part about tying a belt and smoking a pipe that is puzzling. And even funny! All I can say is Olauda was too young to understand the cosmology of his people. He probably added some 'fireside stories' to the description of his people's ritual system.