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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup (12618464 Views)
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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by tbaba1234: 1:45pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: I support Arsenal. I believe that Ox major problem is terrible inconsistency. He can be great in one game and utterly useless in the next. I mean terribly useless not just a bad game. Iwobi is a growing player but has not shown that kind of huge inconsistencies. Is Iwobi better? I am tempted to say yes. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 1:46pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: You claim to have o much knowledge of football. Leave talking long story. Anyone who has a decent eye in watching football can tell the better player. Iwobi is far better, with more class in his touches, passes and intelligent movement. 2 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 1:56pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: Firstly you assumed knowledge I didn't claim knowledge. Consider my question if the two of them were put on the market who will have the bigger price tag I actually agree that the Ox is not as consistent as I would like, I feel Wenger needs to find a way to deal with that. Pace in the premiership cannot be discounted it may not be everything but it's a great attribute. I think even with his inconsistencies which could be attributed somewhat to his injury problems. Then look at him over the last three seasons and he doesn't look as inconsistent as you may initially think. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 2:13pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: We have seen pacy players like Andros Townsend, Adam Johnson and Lenon not reach top heights in the game. I do not think we should look at pace as a stand out quality. Players like Kanu, Bergkamp, Berbatov, Ibrahimovic and David Beckham performed incredibly well without relying on pace. Technique is king and not pace. Even the top quality pacy players like Neymar, Messi and Suarez have outstanding technique. Ox lacks behind in technique which Iwobi has in abundance. Iwobi is the better player. He plays like a veteran while Ox still plays like a kid. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 2:14pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Never seen Ox as a quality player. Good, yes. Quality, Hell no. 2 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by BascoVanVeli(m): 2:19pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn:How many MOTM though? Name the players like Iwobi. Players like Ox are, Zaha, Townsend, Lindgard, Sterling, Sane, Bolasi, Sammy Ameobi...etc. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Mickael2(m): 2:31pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: consider the assists too. Meanwhile, how many goals did the 'Ox' score in the premier league and how many did he score in the FA cup and against which team? 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by zicky(m): 2:34pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
To me I love the Iwobi type of player very technical like Kaka, they can grow to be world best but the Ox kind of player that rely on speed dnt last long. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 2:47pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Outstanding technique, strength & pace combined unbeatable. First thing is technical ability I quite agree, however if you have pace to complement it then it's another level then add to that strength then you become a serial killer on the field. Rarely do you find someone possessing all three. I remember the Ox playing against Bayern he was the game changer. But to say the Ox is just good and Iwobi excellent is not being objective. My question or consideration irrespective of our opinions was to consider thier market value. I did compare thier goal tally with the Ox far ahead. I really like Iwobi skillful, technically exceptional a good player. But I don't consider him to be better than the Ox at this point, he may become better but right now my naira is on the Ox for the time being. 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 2:50pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
zicky: In the long term even short term this is a problem a lot of his injuries are muscular, hamstrings, calf, etc But sometimes African genes defy the probability, can someone explain how Obagoal still remains so fast. And we know how old he is. 2 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 2:52pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Market value is in respect of contract. You can not ascertain. However, I see more coaches demanding more of Iwobi's ability to Ox. At the end, the question is who is the better player. Technique is King and Iwobi has it in bags. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 2:53pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Mickael2: You please tell me Oh cause I don't know just know his basic current season goal tally. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 2:55pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Despite speed, Obagoal has some mad techniques. If you can see his goal for Inter Milan against AC Milan when he was a youngster. Speed is not all that kept Obafemi operating at such level. Ox techniques are far limited. That is the problem. Watch Iwobi control the ball. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by zicky(m): 3:02pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn:Obagoal running fast in China,smh I made mention of players that rely so much on speed and no techniques. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by goldfish80(m): 3:02pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn:Oxlade is a decent player. He has the skills, technic and speed (inherited from his dad who used to be a Pro athlete). Lack of consistency has been a clough in the wheels of his development. He has an embarrassing record of not scoring a goal outside of the Emirates for 5years. Against AC Milan, he was at his best when played in a box to box role. Van Persie was seen screaming when Wenger erroneously pulled him out. When compared with Iwobi, Ox will edge him out in shooting ability, aggression and speed but Iwobi clearly has an edge when technic/ vision is considered. Consistency for me, they are 50/50. 3 Likes |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 3:08pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: Come on in the premiership the larger majority of managers will consider pace first garnished with some skill. I will confesses to being overwhelming biased in favour of skill, technique, shakara movement, touch, dribbling, etc etc. But I have learned that what the majority of the market wants will determine the price. One day a head coach of a Premiership club told my player. At this stage he had out paced and dribbled three players got into the 18 and passed the ball to the strikers feet. He said, "Heh mate, forget all that fancy pansy stuff, just cross it in, get heads on ball mate" This is mindset that pervades the majority of English clubs. Allardyce, Moyes, How, Pulis, Dyche, Bruce, Hughes even some of the more cultured continental European managers will concede the need for Speed end product delivery exceeds the need for technical ability. Iwobi can easily be classed as a luxury player as a result his price will be lower amongst other considerations. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 3:41pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: I guess you are missing the technique we are talking about. Iwobi is one player good in explaining it. If Iwobi is in a tight situation with players around him and no room to cross, he will use his strength and technique to wriggle out of the situation. If there is room for him to cross, he will not go off pulling tricks. Your so called players made runs when they were good options to pass and when in a good situation to cross, he held on to the ball longer than usual. Iwobi fits what the EPL manager wants more than Oxlaide Chamberlain. Most EPL managers will take Iwobi over Chamberlain. Even though the EPL is seen as a pacy League, the Kings are those who rule technically. Look at Costa, Moses, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero, Coutinho, Lalana, Mane, Ozil, Sanchez, Carzola, Pogba, Ibrahimovic etc. Playing with good technique does not mean running around like a headless chicken. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 3:43pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Watch Negredo, Modric, Ericsson etc. These techniques Kings rule. Iwobi is in the class of Technique over speed. Even a speed demon should have brilliant technique like Moses to reign. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Icon79(m): 3:52pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
tbaba1234: Of course, Iwobi is better than Ox. Much better sef. The only thing is that Iwobi needs to become a little more selfish and think about adding goal scoring to his game. Same with Victor Moses. The problem with most naija players is that they are too much of team players that they don't think about padding their stats. But at the end of the day, the difference between you starting and sitting on the bench is your stat. I think some of them are a little timid, but someone ought to tell them: if you have a chance of scoring then take the shot, even if you have a team mate to pass to....be a little selfish and take the shot yourself. At the end of the day, if you miss then you can just apologize and move on....and if you score, no one can accuse you of being selfish. Point is, you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. O pari |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by ChrisKels: 4:34pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Icon79: |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by AIG07: 5:55pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Icon79:you're so on point. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by temilolami1(m): 6:12pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
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Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 7:03pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
TheGoodJoe: With the exception if the continental European Managers (not all of them) There will be a preference for the Ox the only thing against him is Injury prone tag that might impact on him negatively. You need to understand that a lot of ( English) managers here value endeavour, determination, team discipline, stamina, strength and typical bulldog mentality over outright skill and technique. I don't agree with it personally, most English players sorry the vast majority of English player lack technique and skill. But some how the forge very lucrative careers for themselves. Why Admittedly racism plays apart but it's not the only consideration. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 7:23pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Why do you think players like Scholes, Barry, Milner, Lampard, Gérard, Fletcher and Mark Hughes have long careers? It was because of their technical ability over speed. Due to the fast pace of the EPL, these kind of players think and act fast. Why do you think a player like Mikel lasted so long and was a regular at Chelsea for so long? Technical ability. Even Giggs reinvented himself to a more technical player for longevity. By the way, the top managers in the EPL are not English. So hinging on English managers goes off the debate. Iwobi is out for top football and not with Phelan and Moyes. The top managers in the EPL will want Iwobi over Chamberlain. The point is simple. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 7:27pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Have you watched Lalana, Danny Rose, Dele Alli, Ross Barkley, Sterling, Stewart, Stones, Sturridge, Zaha and Clyne play? Before you say English players lack skill. The debate is not about English football but top EPL clubs who rely on top quality players. We are not talking of the vast majority of English players but the majority of top players in top clubs. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 7:57pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
Rose and Clyne get skill hmmm yes but skillful players capital No. However, Zaha , Llana, Sturridge, Barkley I go hear. But English players in general lack technique and skill as a result most English managers don't always appreciate technically gifted players. You are creating the terms of this discourse to suit your propositions. I am talking generally speaking and not just the top teams in the premiership. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 8:08pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: We are not talking about all English players and English managers. I wonder why your hinging on that. Top, Top, Top, top clubs and managers want good players. Also, top players do not go about showing skills but use it at the right time. Mostly under tight situations. Iwobi has far better quality than Chamberlain. He is a far better player. More top clubs and managers will want Iwobi over Chamberlain. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 8:10pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: I am not creating anything. It was you who created English managers/English players. The point is you asking of Market price. I told you and maintain that Iwobi will get more demand than Chamberlain because top clubs will want his abilities in their team. You ran to English managers. When did Moyes and Mark Hughes relate to demand for players? |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by Tarzaa(m): 8:18pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
BlackAlbino6:Doo je gande, we ye? 1 Like |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by komekn(m): 8:59pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
If we are talking about the English premiership and Market value of players, can that discussion be done to the exclusion of English Managers. Headers is a player with a very limited skill and technique set. However he is probably worth in excess of £20 million. In the context of the premiership he is considered exceptional. Looking at past masters like Gerrard and Lampard, these guys could score goals but in terms of outright skill and technical ability you wouldn't class them as such. The two of them have scored more goals from outside the 18 than any other players in the premiership. Okocha in my opinion was skill personified. however in the premiership his end product delivery, well was not great. Okocha possibly recorded the highest number of shots on goal but not a commensurate number of goals compared to his undeniable talent. I am not giving you my outright view but the prevailing market consideration placed on players that will determine thier market value. To decide which player is better will always be a matter of subjective opinion. This subject is far from objective. However, there are some things that are not in dispute such as statistics that can give us some indicators of quality. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by BascoVanVeli(m): 9:37pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: The only link Iwobi has had is to barca so we can excuse English managers especially since they don't even coach the top teams. English players lack finesse, we can blame that on their proper culture, this is why they can't win anything. The chances u get at bolton will always be harder than a liverpool or chelsea chance. Lampard and Gerrard would have been relegated over there, Okocha single handedly kept that club in the premier league, while all ur Lampard and Gerrard put together could not make a semi final. |
Re: "The Super Eagles Thread: The Road To AFCON 2025 And 2026 World Cup by TheGoodJoe(m): 9:58pm On Dec 23, 2016 |
komekn: Oxlaide Chamberlain does not have better technique on the ball. Iwobi outclasses him there. Iwobi's passing is phenomenal. Iwobi makes his team play better. Today, it is easier to buy Chamberlain from Arsenal than Iwobi. Even you know this. So, this is not a subjective opinion. Gérard and Lampard have good shooting rates but in their whole lives, they have never controlled a midfield the way Okocha did. Go watch Okocha vs Manchester United and see a man make a small Bolton cause the biggest team in English football problems. Moyes, Pardew, Phelan, Mark Hughes will sign Iwobi before Chamberlain. |
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