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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Delta (and Rivers) Igbos (61054 Views)
If Nigeria Divide Today, Does Delta And Edo State Has A Place With Yoruba/igbo / Is Oba Of Benin The Paramount Traditional Ruler Of Niger Delta and Igbos? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by PabloAfricanus(m): 12:45am On Dec 27, 2016 |
ChinenyeN: Semantics appear to be getting in the way, clearly if Fact B follows Fact A, then logically Fact B is secondary to and somehow dependent on Fact A.. That is where I beg to differ. The most visible unit of societal cum political organization in "Igbo" land is clans. Some of these clans have various ancestries and origins, as expected of people who have experienced migration over the centuries. Ethnic identifiers wordwide are generally linked to some identifiable feature of the land, the people themselves, some deity, some religious or cultural belief or language etc. In this case, the most common name known to history among the Igbo speaking peoples is the very name of the language itself. It is what the Igbo peoples called themselves. It was not picked from just one clan or one prominent Igbo community. Heck, even the so-called Bini migrants in Onitsha and Oguta, right in the heart of core Igbo clans called their neighbours, whom they spoke the same language and practiced the same customs onye Igbo, till today. My point is that the word "Igbo" among the Igbo speaking peoples is not recent or contemporary with colonial history. If it were, then it will be acceptable to say that the name "Igbo" is just a linguistic classifier used to group together unrelated peoples who spoke different versions of the same "Igbo" language. I am arguing that interpretation in itself is erroneous and obscures the fact ethnic groups while related still retain the peculiarity of unique languages. Igbo for all I can see appears to be the most visible appellation by which these peoples identified themselves. While most clans identified themselves by their clans names and communities, the language and general name by which they called themselves all over was "Igbo". And it was not just them, their neighbours too called them by that name "Igbo". And all this was precolonial. And I gave you instances of communities and surnames prefixed and suffixed by that name to buttress my point. If you factor in the fact that Igbo dialects are as diverse as they are sometimes mutually unintelligible to otherwise Igbo clans, don't you think that linguistic classification in this case, appears to be secondary to general Igbo ethnic identity?. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by AmuDimpka: 1:18am On Dec 27, 2016 |
Probz: But the Igbo man in Anambra can understand the ukwuani man And also ukwuani and oguta speaks exactly same So ukwuani is Igboid language Oguta is Igbo dialect Ikwerre and ohaji speaks almost same dikaects So ikwerre is an Igboid language Ohaji is an Igbo dialect Your definition is so faulty so faulty If the Anambra man can understand the ukwuani man without the aid of interpreter ..Then ukwuani speaks same language with Anambra but a different dialect You guys must stop this Igboid madness...Why always Igbo . What about hausaoid language Linguists, however, do make a distinction between the two based on the concept of mutual intelligibility. Two languages where speakers can understand each other are considered dialects of the same language, whereas two languages where the speakers cannot understand each other are, indeed, separate languages. This often isn't black and white, since understand can be a hard criterion to pin down. There's no well-established way this has been operationalized. 7 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by AmuDimpka: 1:23am On Dec 27, 2016 |
All these arm chair linguistics teachers can't even differentiate between language and dialect. So much daftness here How can you speak a different language yet I don't need an interpreter . If there is Igboid language that is different from Igbo...If means that both won't even understand each other unless they employ an interpreter But if they don't , then they speak same language but different dialect If an anambra man can understand the guy in Agbor and they can communicate ..Then they speak Igbo with different dialect and accent . There is nothing like Igboid language ...Because the term language rubbishes all other postulations You guys have to give Igbo a break This stupidity is getting out of hand 7 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ChinenyeN(m): 1:33am On Dec 27, 2016 |
PabloAfricanus, you're essentially arguing a point that is ultimately outside the scope of my statement. Your point is relevant though. Specifically, it is relevant to the subject of the historical context, but it is ultimately not the point I am making. You are discussing details of the historical context, while I am simply drawing people's attention to the fact that any attempt to draw lines between "Igbo proper" and "Igboid" is essentially an arbitrary exercise. It results in a farce, because the rules one person uses to draw those lines cannot be uniformly applied to all other contexts, and the aforementioned lines neglect the historical context that gave birth to what we know as "Igbo identity". Eventually, Nigerians will have to learn. Either nobody is Igbo, or everyone who speaks a type of Igbo is Igbo. Anything in between is arbitrary, and an insult to the various peoples involved. 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 7:41am On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna: Who are you writing an epistle to? I understand you fully. You're only being mischievous. Over 97% Enuani people are comfortable being addressed as Igbos so what's your point? The Op did an excellent job in laying down facts without stirring up dust unnecessary. I suggest you stick to the script. 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 7:51am On Dec 27, 2016 |
ChinenyeN: The last paragraph...Though I know it's a farce I don't argue against such names as "truly Igbo" because the prevailing political climate in Nigeria has made it so. 2 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 8:53am On Dec 27, 2016 |
laudate:Little wonder you abuse it. 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 11:09am On Dec 27, 2016 |
iSlayer2: Yea, I shouldn't have. My mistake. I forgot you can't read anything that goes beyond a few lines. The reason why you didn't read down the original post. The reason why you didn't understand that I was responding to something that was actually in the original post. I see actual derailers here, bringing in Ibani Ijaws on a post the Ibani Ijaws weren't even mentioned to start with. But my little comments are the ones biting your intestines. This reply is already too long for your short attention span to handle, so I'd better stop. 4 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 12:09pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
AjiereTuwo: Please explain to me why want to talk about Ijaw on a thread that isn't about Ijaw people if you aren't here to troll. You just went on a Somali thread opened by a Somali and started talking about ipob, igbo and Biafra. And you claim not to be a troll. It doesn't suit you. This is Christmas. Go out. Enjoy yourself. Don't let this Igbo obsession turn you into a miserable person. 5 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 2:33pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna: Stop whining and keep shut. You were being mischievous and was called. Suck it up. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 3:42pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
iSlayer2: I wasn't being mischievous. I was addressing what I perceived to be an incorrect assertion on the OP. You, on the other hand, appear to want to derail (something you accused me of, ironically) and be stupid. I can help you fool yourself if that's what you want. I have done it before to other people on this platform. Quote me again, and you'll know I can hold my own in an insulting march. 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Afam4eva(m): 3:55pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna:Laureta Onochie is from Ika. @As much as you tried to use objectivity to drive home your point, i don't think using objectivity like you have done can give you a true picture. The only thing i see you doing is that those you classified as Igbos are those that have typical Igbo idiosyncrasies. Notice my usage of the word "typical". I don't know why people tend to define Igbos by popular characteristics of people from the South-East which could have come due to the unique history that they share. It's just like saying someone doesn't look Igbo because they cannot hustle like the average Igbo man without realizing that even hustling really hard is a popular behavior of Igbo people, it's not the only behavior of Igbo people. There are Igbo people that are lazy. there are Igbo people that cannot do business etc. I think it's pertient that you tell us why you think Ika for example are from Edo as opposed to Enuani? let me guess: is it because they have an Edo influence on their Igboid language? or they could be Edo with Igbo influence. it depends on how you look at it. it's imperative that Igbo is not a homogenous group and as such all Igbo people should not be exactly the same or have the same political inclination. There are Igbo people and there are people people. There are Igbo people that according to natural order are Igbos based on their language, culture and tradition but they could decide not to go with the Igbo tag. I remember one Ndoni guy on this forum who swore that ndoki was not Igbo but he agreed that all the "BIA" speaking tribes should come together and give themselves a new name but not "Igbo". That's when i realized the fact that the fear of these people isn't necessarily about working the SE Igbos but the fact that being tagged Igbo will swallow their uniqqueness and dissipate them into nothingness. It's just like telling an Annang person to call himself Ibibio. 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 3:55pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna: Stop whining,keep shut and then go and sit down. Nobody will tell you when I'm ready for you. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 4:02pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
iSlayer2: You are the only whiner in this entire thread. You are not only a whiner, you are also a pathetic attention-seeker and probably a loner with nothing better to do than sniffing my ass on NL. Get off my mentions and get a life. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 4:26pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Afam4eva: You people do not even understand the point of my posts here. The OP is the one dividing the Igbo-speaking world into true Igbos and non-true Igbos. I am not the one doing it. He is also the one using the presence or absence of traditions of Edo origins to divide the Igbo-speaking world into true Igbos and non-true Igbos. I am not the one doing it. My point (which everyone seems to have missed) is that making such a demarcation is an exercise in futility, as you will still encounter 'Igbo-speaking' people within the so-called 'true' Igbo groups who also claim Bini blood and deny being Igbo. My point: Don't bother making a division. It will be futile. There are those who claim Igbo roots in Ika; there are those who claim Bini roots in Ika. There are those who claim Igbo roots in Enuani; there are those who claim Bini roots in Enuani. You don't get to arbitrarily draw a line, and say 'This side, pure Igbo; this side, Bini-mixed'. Is this a difficult argument to follow? BTW, I was told by Anioma friends that Onochie is Aniocha. I will ask again, but if there's anything that can support what you say, I will accept it. 5 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Afam4eva(m): 4:33pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna:I understand where you're coming from and i covered that a bit in my post. he feels Aniocha are more Igbo than Ika because their dialect is more similar to what is spoken in the east than Ika. I'm sure he's aware that there are people from Aniocha that disclaim the Igbo tag even though they may be in the minority compared to those who do the same in Ika. I guess that's just the way the OP understands it. 4 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ChinenyeN(m): 4:43pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
iSlayer2: So, you're simply participating in perpetuating this ongoing, arbitrary exercise. "Truly Igbo" by the prevailing Nigerian political climate is equivalent to having your village in either Anambra, Enugu, Abia, Ebonyi, Imo state. Yet, these state lines are all nothing more than administrative boundaries which were not drawn with respect to the histories and affiliations of the communities being governed. So, again another arbitrary exercise. To make a long story short, I understand that there is a reality to the situation. In the political climate, the reality is that "truly Igbo" is SE. It still does not change the fact that such reality is an example of arbitrary demarcations. That is the point I'm making. The OP of this post and others who join in to discuss "this is Igbo" and "this is not Igbo" are doing nothing more than creating arbitrary definitions. 2 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 5:28pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
ChinenyeN: I agree with you. I'm only taking cognizance of prevailing conditions. i.e being realistic. 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 5:28pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna: Oh shut up already |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 5:40pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
iSlayer2: LOL, I thought you had more fight in you, little nigga. Tired of being stupid already? 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 5:47pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Wulfruna: Fight?! Little Nigga?! Okay. No P. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 5:58pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
^ This one went tame too soon. I thought this was going to be more fun. Oh well... |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 10:21pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
AmuDimpka: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages My question is, are Ikas and Ukwuania culturally Igbo or not? |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 10:25pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Probz: "Culturally Igbo". Hmm. In your opinion, Probz, what and what constitute Igbo culture? 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ChinenyeN(m): 10:47pm On Dec 27, 2016 |
Haha. RedboneSmith, you want to walk Probz into muddy waters abi? 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 12:10am On Dec 28, 2016 |
iSlayer2: You are free to kindly hug the nearest transformer with wet hands, since my use of a particular word causes you so much pain & heartache. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 12:44am On Dec 28, 2016 |
ChinenyeN: My intention is to slow-walk him into an epiphany, as Sheldon Cooper would say. 2 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 12:50am On Dec 28, 2016 |
Wulfruna: This must mean alot to you. You're itching all over. I just dey look you. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 12:54am On Dec 28, 2016 |
laudate: Run along child,I ain't got sweets |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 1:30am On Dec 28, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: The very same grounds that differentiate Yoruba from Ishekiri/Igala (shared traditions/customs and religion, food, etc.). |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by YourNemesis: 2:46am On Dec 28, 2016 |
Probz: Yorubas and Igalas don't share the same culture though. Even language wise, Yorubas can't really understand Igala, they can only pick out some words when they are speaking deeply, otherwise, it is hard for a Yoruba to understand an Igala person, except maybe some very few phrases. Itsekiri is sooo much easier. |
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