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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Delta (and Rivers) Igbos (61372 Views)
If Nigeria Divide Today, Does Delta And Edo State Has A Place With Yoruba/igbo / Is Oba Of Benin The Paramount Traditional Ruler Of Niger Delta and Igbos? (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 5:30am On Dec 28, 2016 |
Probz: I hope you know you completely dodged the question. 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 11:33am On Dec 28, 2016 |
YourNemesis: "The very same grounds that differentiate Yoruba from Ishekiri/Igala (shared traditions/customs and religion, food, etc.)." Precisely my point, Nemesis. I'm saying that the things that differentiate Yoruba from Itsekiri and Igala are the customs and traditions (which aren't shared. You misunderstood). @RedboneSmith, the things that differentiate Yoruboid from Yoruba proper are the same things that differentiate Igboid from Igbo and (at least in my opinion) constitute Igbo culture (traditional belief system, arts, cuisine, etc.). I wasn't dodging any question. 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 9:50pm On Dec 29, 2016 |
iSlayer2: See this poor kid...still babbling, as usual. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by RedboneSmith(m): 10:52pm On Dec 29, 2016 |
Probz: We could have an interesting discussion about Igbo culture and what it really is, and then determine if it is possible to distinguish Igboid from Igbo based on culture. But sadly, you are not really engaging my question. Traditional belief system? What are those elements of Igbo belief system? Are they really pan-Igbo (i.e., do they exist exclusively in all the so-called Igbo areas) and non-existent in the so-called igboid areas? Cuisine? Can you name a dish which is common to all the so-called Igbo areas --- all of them --- but which the so-called Igboid areas do not indulge in? Arts? Are there art forms which ALL the so-called Igbo people practise which the so-called Igboids don't? I want to know if we can really articulate a common Igbo culture which can be demonstrated as separating the Igbo from those you would called Igboid. Put Yoruboid matter aside; this may not be a "London is to England, as Paris is to France" situation. 8 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by AmuDimpka: 7:07pm On Dec 30, 2016 |
Probz: Are ijebus and eguns cultural culturally Yoruba If you can answer them then their lies your answers 2 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 7:55pm On Dec 31, 2016 |
RedboneSmith: Cultures aren't ever tagged with the suffix 'oid,' languages are. Oid languages are divergent enough from the overarching umbrella term to stand as distinct languages and not dialects of the parent language but they're on the spectrum and sound at least vaguely similar. But the cultures have either nothing or little in common, that's why they're not considered part of the other group. Igalas and Itsekiris speak a Yoruboid language but they're not Yoruba. Ikas and Ekpeyes speak an Igboid language but the ones Ikas I've encountered are as far removed from Igbo as you can get and I believe Ekpeyes have their own rich traditional culture. By traditional Igbo culture, I'm talking about Odinani/Alusi/Oji/Osu/etc. My question in the OP is, have these common aspects of traditional Igbo society that partly shape Igbo identity also shared by people from the Bendel region (Ikas and Ukwuanis) or are they only called Igbo by lay people because they speak an Igboid language and share proximity with the more prototypal Enuani clan of Oshimili/Aniocha area? |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 1:18pm On Jan 01, 2017 |
Probz:He's one of those flies that are attracted to anything Igbo |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 1:26pm On Jan 01, 2017 |
AmuDimpka:You deconstructed the fulcrum of his arguments with these...in my view the only Igboid languages are Igbo itself and Ekpeye. At times I don't get this undue obsession with anything Igbo from Yoruba people especially... I was shocked to find out that some Yoruba now study Igbo history in order to find in which to claim superiority over Igbos 2 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 1:31pm On Jan 01, 2017 |
ChinenyeN:I love this premise!! |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 2:02pm On Jan 01, 2017 |
Afam4eva:As an ukwangwa I tend to agree with that idea but aside Biāfra, I don't think any other name appeals as much. Moreover I've noticed that the Anioma tend to be more comfortable with the Biāfra tag than the Igbo one. What about using "Ola"(treasure) or "Igwe"(celestial/heavenly) |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 10:56pm On Jan 08, 2017 |
cheruv: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboid_languages 'Williamson and Blench conclude that the Igbo languages (Igboid apart from Ekpeye) form a "language cluster" and that they are somewhat mutually intelligible. However, mutual intelligibility is only marginal, even among the Izii–Ikwo–Ezaa–Mgbo languages.' Igbo proper, Ika, Ikwerre, Ebonyi Igbo (Izzi-Ezza-Mgbo-Ikwo) and Ogba are all considered Igbo languages in this study. Ekpeye and Ukwuani are separate, yeah. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 11:42pm On Jan 08, 2017 |
cheruv:
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Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Noneroone(m): 11:46pm On Jan 09, 2017 |
"Igboid" such is silly political invention. I wouldnt have bothered to comment if some supposedly enlightened Igbos didnt post in a manner that is patrionizing to Igbo division agenda All the indigenous cultures from ika down oratta and ikwerre are Igbo. The variations are just dialects. Some that we call dialects are not even variant enough to constitute one. Imagine a grown-up saying ikwerre and ogba are "igboid languages" do you even know the meaning of Igboid? What an insult on the sensibility of Igbos! people should stop engaging in the crass abuse of the word "language" someone even said that Igbo is not a homogeinous group. What an academic misfit! Do you know that a historian once suggested that the entire Igboland must have had one single ruler in the distant past, since it is difficult to explain why market days, kinship and well entrenched customs are same throughout igboland. the slave traders who visited the Niger area since the 14th century clearly recorded majority of the slaves they got as having come from the "heebo" country. The colonialist in their own account documented that two third of lower niger (old eastern region) are Igbo. These whites related first hand with the natives, spent years with them, studied their culture, religion, belief system, mythology, tradition, ritual, market days etc and concluded the igbos are one and even share one history. We will not allow some intellectual fraudsters to declare that Igbo is not a homogenous group and go further to arrogate on themselves the academic authority of making phantom declaration behind the keyboard that some igbo dialects are 'igboid' and some are igbo. If you are looking for attention and you think telling Igbo story the way it will please our enemies is the only way to get it then think again. 3 Likes |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 1:06am On Jan 10, 2017 |
Noneroone: Mr Man, I don't have a division agenda nor do I claim to be an 'enlightened Igbo.' This thread's clearly my own opinion and personal understanding and I've even asked questions, indicating my knowledge is incomplete. Take time, abeg. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 3:57am On Jan 10, 2017 |
cheruv: "As an UkwaNgwa." Amazing! I wish I had this power to change identity as I like. On this thread you're Ukwa-Ngwa. On the other thread you are Anioma. Brilliant! Cire80 ehikwe22 gerg Did you guys see this thread/comment? (Oh, Ukwa-Ngwa is in Abia State... in case you guys aren't familiar with the term.) 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Cire80: 4:27am On Jan 10, 2017 |
Wulfruna:thanks. I saw this yesterday and I laughed in my mind because it only confirmed what I already knew. The reason I didn't confront him with it is because I knew he would twist it like he always does. That's what him and his brothers are best at doing. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 10:14am On Jan 10, 2017 |
Wulfruna: Very amazing indeed Well having lived in Aba for quite a longtime, don't you think I've the right to claim to be from there Too bad despite being a woman you don't know these things |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by ehikwe22: 10:18am On Jan 10, 2017 |
cheruv:of course you must come up with a defense |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 10:31am On Jan 10, 2017 |
Cire80:Thank God oo you didn't bkos I'd have been "forced" to disclose my part of Anioma.. But since ehikwe has thrown it to the public, everyone now knows am an ORU/OLU from ndokwa East. Unlike you I've never claimed to be Ika...and I know the Ika are a proud nation,as orus we've had exchanges with them over the centuries and am really proud of them. You claim to be Ika... Yet you know nothing about them,I know how many times the other Bini boy corrected you on your ignorance.the best thing I've seen you do is trying to be more Bini than Oba Ewuare Moreover my mother is an ukwangwa...so as long as its an issue concerning Igboland, I can either claim East or West as it pleases me. 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Wulfruna(f): 12:27pm On Jan 10, 2017 |
cheruv: Cire80 was right. He said you were going to twist this. I have been on this forum long enough and have seen your comments long enough to know you have no connnection to Anioma. You are from Imo-Abia axis as your comments bear witness. You only started calling yourself Anioma on the other thread, much to my puzzlement because no be today I don dey see you for this forum. You better go and start wiping your history, because when I have time i will start digging them up. Including one comment where you clearly insinuated that you are NOT from Delta. 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by cheruv: 1:47pm On Jan 10, 2017 |
Wulfruna:Nne biko go and start digging joor I'd call it operation burst cheruv Flood the thread with your results... Or better still create a thread so that everyone can see that cheruv is an impostor From what am seeing its gonna be interesting... At least lemme bask in the expected popularity you'd be giving me Biko when's the show starting... Do I've to wait or should I start coming 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by jericco1(m): 4:10pm On Jan 10, 2017 |
Even me wey be Ika boy, una don successfully confuse me. Nawa |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 12:05am On Jan 12, 2017 |
Wulfruna: Chimo!! Another Sherlock Holmes has uncovered this chap's antics! I beg, start the digging, o. Some of us are eagerly waiting for the truth to be revealed...hehehe! |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by laudate: 12:06am On Jan 12, 2017 |
Cire80: Na true word you talk!! The secrets are being revealed... |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 11:02pm On Feb 14, 2017 |
cheruv:Yupp, that I can see on this very forum. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Igboid: 1:30am On Feb 15, 2017 |
How can a slimy Afonja who had been hiding behind the mask of "anonymous" ethnic group accuse someone of being an impostor? Wonders shall never end Enwero ife mmadu ayala afu na Nairaland nkaa, inukwa! 1 Like |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Cire80: 12:24pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
RedboneSmith:Bro, I respect people like you that are honest and argue out of deep personal conviction irrespective of whose ox is gored. I don't know what side you are on this but I'm certain you know the answer to most of these questions you're asking probz. As for me, I'm not completely on any side. In my opinion, the op is right to some extent but he's trying to argue from an objective angle which I think is not possible in this topic. And his authoritative generalization is another issue. And all those saying they understand Ukwani and Ika are not being truthful. You understand some things but you can't understand Ika and Ukwani except you've spent some time in an Ika and Ukwani town. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Probz(m): 2:24pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
Cire80: I’m not trying to generalise, believe me. All I said was that, from my experience, most of the Igbo denial in Delta State comes from the Ika-Ukwuani (Bendel) region and that’s for a reason. I know there are Igbo deniers in Asaba environs but they’re noticeably fewer compared to their more westerly neighbours. Riverine Igbos, not just Deltans but select Anambrarians (Onitsha, Ogbaru), have this funny thing about hinterland Igbos anyway. We’ve all heard of ‘nwa onye Igbo.’ Anioma just seems like a pure political creation to me. As far as I can see, Enuani’s the only true Igbo group in the northern Delta State and that’s not even being generalising since most Ika-Ukwuanis that I know vehemently oppose the Igbo label. Cross-border influences are everywhere in the Igbo exterior (Nsukka-Igala, Aro-Ibibio, Abakaliki-Tiv/Idoma) but I can’t help but see Bendel Igbos as nothing other than flat-out Edo-Igbo hybrids. What’s more generalising than any of what I’m saying is lumping them in with true Delta Igbos because they share some linguistic similarities. It seems to me like a pure matter of geographic and political convenience (esp. to an average Nigerian) and partly the reason why people don’t see Delta Igbos as true Igbos, because the Igboid-Edoid groups in that region (who account for the majority) reject the label. That’s why I think the Delta Igbo label should be limited to Aniocha/Oshimili and not including Ika and Ndokwa. Unless someone can tell me that the latter were originally Igbo and not Bini in culture/language and that there’s not just a few of them assimilating into the wider Igbo culture and language for political reasons. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nobody: 6:33pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
jericco1: |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nowenuse: 7:15pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
Probz: Of course. Anioma is a political identity coined by Osadebe for all the western Igbos and it has become a strong identity today almost like an ethnic group. I don't think it would ever be possible for anyone to seperate Anioma people based on Igbo denial/acceptance. I grew up with these people and i can tell u that Igbo denial/acceptance is roughly divided among them. I have met proud Ika/Ndokwa Igbos as well as Asaba/Anochia igbo denials. These people have been neighbours with each other for centuries and have evolved a lot of similar cultures at the western part of the river. Only they can choose to divide themselves. Are u aware that some Ika and Ndokwa towns speak Enuani instead of Ika and Ndokwa based languages? Even among the Anochia and Asaba people, different towns claim different origins and identities. I doubt they can ever be seperated as such. |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by Nowenuse: 7:39pm On Feb 15, 2017 |
@Probz As much as u may want to see Anioma people differentiated based on their Igboness, i'd like to make it known to u that the united Anioma identity has been of immense benefit to them as it has helped them unite in order to become politically relevant in Delta state. Delta state is a multi-ethnic state where different groups fight for their interests radically and as usual the larger ones take the day. If Anioma politicians and people had not united to support one Governorship candidate in the last Delta governorship elections that saw the first Anioma governor of Delta state, i doubt they would have ever produced any governor in Delta state. So, as much as u would like Anioma or parts of Anioma to be so igbocentric and united with their Igbo peeps over the Niger, don't u be so selfish to ignore their own political interests and destiny in their own political arena. Take a look at Rivers state and see how fragmented the Igboid groups over there are. It's a good thing that they have over half of the population in Rivers state hence they are politically at advantage unlike Anioma people who are only a third of Delta state, but nonetheless it would have been better if all the Igboid Rivers group have a united identity like that of Delta Igbos. Almost every village in Rivers Igboid areas claim their own identity, Ikwerre, Ndoni, Ogba, Egbema, Ekpeye, Ndoki, Asa, Etche, Omuma e.t.c and while the larger Ikwerres may be enjoying politically and developing, the smaller ones are suffering neglect because these fragmented tribes do not care about each other. Some even speak Igbo but are adressed as Ijaws like the Bonny/Opobo people. I have resided in PH and seen all these. Kudos to the Aniomas for their unity. In the Nigeria of today that we are, our political classificatioms have become somehow more important than our ethnic classifications and this is something some of you must accept. Most Delta and Rivers Igboid groups cherish their state identities more than a pan Igbo identity because that has somehow been their means of getting what they want. Reminds me of a Kogi friend of mine from the yoruba speaking part of Kogi, in ABU Zaria she went to Yoruba student union to apply for a scholarship meant for yoruba people, but she was rejected there and told that she is not from the southwest and that the scholarship only covers the South-west and Kogi is excluded. Irrespective of the fact that she grew up in the south-west and feels yoruba like every other yoruba person, it dawned on her that her first identity lies with her fellow Kogites ( the Igalas, Igbirras, Bassas and co) and Kogi identity is something she must live with and Kogi state does not recognise Yoruba ethnic group but only OKUN and OKUN SUBTRIBES. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Delta (and Rivers) Igbos by chijiblaze(m): 5:50am On Feb 16, 2017 |
Cire80: Maybe you'd need to spend some time in Ika-land or Ukwaliland to become fluent in the dialects but ordinarily listening to them, if you understand central Igbo language you will be able to figure out more than 80% of what Ika and Ukwuali people are saying. And an Onye-Igbo can become quite fluent in the language within one weekend of interaction with the natives of these places. This is notwithstanding the fact that these Ika and Ukwuali people understand central Igbo perfectly well without first studying it. |
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