darknetcom:


bros...juju is not a joke...

i am a christian...

Let's agree to disagree.

I am atheist.

forgiveness:


Hopeless! Because I have shown to you world known facts about early civilization in West Africa, Really! Bhuuuhahaha! Chai!

Google early civilization in Africa then come back and discuss.

Kenya and most East and Southern Africa no dey dere,

Great Zimbabwe and Ethiopia, we know, who are the rest (East and Southern Africa)?


What Civilization Meant

I thought you said Nigeria was more civilized since you had no animals unlike Kenya so I assumed maybe you don't quite understand the concept that is civilization. Evidently, you still haven't googled it or you are shifting goal posts. Sad.

gallivant:


Let's agree to disagree.

I am atheist.

kenyan??..

ianSweet:


Hmmm, do u kenyans answer your tribal names so much? Or swahili /names?
Cos am wondering since u guys all speak swahili, how do u differentiate yourselves ethnically especially in the urban areas?

For instance in hausa speaking northern Nigeria, all the tribes there are so united especially the muslim ones, there is no room for differentiation amongst them as such because they all speak hausa and answer only islamic names, most southern Nigerians cannot even differentiate northern Nigerians based on tribe because almost all of us speak hausa.

So am kinda surprised by the fact that tribalism thrives in Kenya. Anyone would think u guys are becoming increasingly homogenous due to a unifying language. So pls what am i missing out? (pls dont mind my curiousity and my over inquisitiveness)

We still have tribal territories. Swahili is helping with communication but people do still speak their own languages when at home, back in their villages, etc.

It's in places like Nairobi where I would say it's unifying factor is felt the most because it's not an ethnically exclusive area. People have learnt to live with other different communities there.

The people who clash are mostly people who grew up in ethnically monotonous rural areas and only meet other ethnicities later in life. It's about trust. People are suspicious of people they know little about.

Differences between tribe are easy to pick out. Kenya is where you find Bantus, Nilotes and Cushites. They are physically different. There are also differences within the tribes that make the groups.

Our names are from our tribes. For those with Christian names, the second name is tribal. Then we have national IDs with even more details of our tribe and villages.

gallivant:


If I may add, we have already established Swahili is linguistically a bantu tongue with maybe 2% Arab loan words. The common misconception is that the coastal Swahili is the classic form of the language which is far from the truth. You have realized the more inland the you go the language evolves and looses its Arab influence. For example, 20 in classic Swahili is ishrini but in Uganda, Congo etc. its makumi mbili; a direct translation to any bantu tongue from Kamba, Kikuyu, Shona even Zulu. My point is, the purest form of Swahili is the one spoken far inland in the Great Lakes Region and not the Coast.

That's a good point.

I've also noted that Zulu is very close to Swahili

darknetcom:


kenyan??..

Yes, we are plenty in Kenya. Atheists, agonistic, free minds all over the place. You want to join?

Muafrika2:

That's a good point.

I've also noted that Zulu is very close to Swahili

It is, they are but the same language.

gallivant:


Yes, we are plenty in Kenya. Atheists, agonistic, free minds all over the place. You want to join?

How is the agitation for an atheists political party going?

Muafrika2:

How is the agitation for an atheists political party going?

I would say so far so good. At the moment we are in the grassroots level, we have had our battles with the Attorney General, Catholic church, Muslim council in court and it looks promising. Here is our website....

https://atheistsinkenya.com/

Muafrika2:

Many of them have lived in Kenya and Tanzania as refugees so they know the language. They are trying.


You know the history of the East African Coast. Some Arabs may have been assimilated.


That's a very accurate observation.

The secret is communism. Called Ujamaa in swahili, Tanzania opted for communism and as government policy, citizens from different tribes were set up in new communities and had to work together on farms, etc. They grew to have an acceptance and understanding of each other. Perhaps that's the way to go for Africa.


Luhya. It's the Second largest Kenyan tribe.

Wow, i mean i have never heard of communism in Africa. U mean like real communism (the soviet union kind) or what? Pls i'd like u to shed more light in that aspect.

I heard of Kikuyu domination in Kenya. What can u say abt that? Personally i think am surprise how come Kikuyus dominate Kenya when they are just about one quarter of the country's population.
Is luhya a bantu language? What is your (luhya's) largest city?

gallivant:


If I may add, we have already established Swahili is linguistically a bantu tongue with maybe 2% Arab loan words. The common misconception is that the coastal Swahili is the classic form of the language which is far from the truth. You have realized the more inland the you go the language evolves and looses its Arab influence. For example, 20 in classic Swahili is ishrini but in Uganda, Congo etc. its makumi mbili; a direct translation to any bantu tongue from Kamba, Kikuyu, Shona even Zulu. My point is, the purest form of Swahili is the one spoken far inland in the Great Lakes Region and not the Coast.

Since swahili evolved around the coasts and spread hinterlands then i think coastal swahili is unarguably purer. It's just like the Nigerian pidgin which also evolved around Nigeria's southern and southwestern coasts and truly the best speakers of Nigeria's pidgin who speak it more often are those from the Niger-deltan (southern coastal) areas of Nigeria.

Muafrika2:

We still have tribal territories. Swahili is helping with communication but people do still speak their own languages when at home, back in their villages, etc.

It's in places like Nairobi where I would say it's unifying factor is felt the most because it's not an ethnically exclusive area. People have learnt to live with other different communities there. .

Hmm, great explanation.
From what i can conclude, the case of swahili in Kenya is almost the same as Pidgin english in southern Nigeria (especially South-south and somehow south-eastern Nigeria) where pidgin is the everyday language in the urban areas.
Infact going by what you are saying i think Nigerian pidgin is stronger in south-south Nigeria (about 35 million ppl) than Swahili is in Kenya because even in most semi urban areas and rural areas (among young people) in south-south Nigeria, pidgin is preferred.

ianSweet:
Pls, all Kenyans here are free to ask me (i don't know about other Nigerians here) absolutely any questions, i promise to answer to my best knowledge.

My second question to Kenyans here

I believed that Tanzanians were the first or original owners of the swahili language which later spread to Kenya and other areas but you guys corrected me that Swahili evolved simultaneously along all east African countries at the same time.
So i would sincerely like to know pls, how come almost all Tanzanians are very fluent in swahili and majority have adopted it as their first language? compared to Kenya and Uganda where only about 2/3 and 1/2 speak swahili?

Lately, i have been watching a lot of East African music and i must admit that i have come to start falling in love with East African music, just that i think my love is one-sided and it is mostly towards Tanzania (Bongo) music.

(No offence pls) I have discovered that Tanzanians speak and sing in swahili in a lovelier, sweeter and more attractive tone than other east Africans. Pls why is this? Their swahili sometimes have this Indian and middle eastern flavour the way they sing it at times. There are about 10 Tanzanian musicians am a big fan of, Uganda about 5 of them while in Kenya i think i love Sauti sol and a duo group (i think Gabu & Frasha).


KenyanStar, MtuSuper, Muafrika2, kikuyu1, PissedYagami, gallivant, NairobiWalker.

You should listen to Elani

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUoUxAhJmQ
And Kiswahili is not owned by anyone iansweets. It is not Kenyan or Tanzanian. It is East African. Swahili language was as a result of trade where Arabs and Bantus mixed. Actually the closest related language to Kiswahili is Mijikenda, which is Kenyan. Swahili culture stretches from Southern Somalia, Kenya, Zanzibar, Tanzania, and Northern Mozambique. Actually the earliest Swahili culture developed in the Tana Valley and the Lamu Islands(which is in Kenya), from indigenous Bantu speaking population, around the sixth century. By the 10th century, Islam was beginning to take root as it was reported that Kanbalu was run by muslims. Trading opportunities saw the arrival of Arab, Persian, and Indian merchants. In 916, Al-Masudi visited the Swahili coast or "Land of the Zanj." Between 1050-1200, a wave of immigration from Persia seems to have occurred, causing a southern migration from Shungwaya and Lamu to Zanzibar, Pemba, Mafia, and Kilwa.
http://www.afropedea.org/swahili-city-states

Swahili accents are very different even here in Kenya. Yes, Tanzanians speak nicer swahili than Kenyans generally but, I think people from the Kenyan coast have the sweetest Kiswahili accent. There is the standard Kiswahili then people from differnt regions have different lahaja(dialects). Even in DRC they have some dialect, the same way English has variants, Indian English, Nigerian English etc

gallivant:


I would say so far so good. At the moment we are in the grassroots level, we have had our battles with the Attorney General, Catholic church, Muslim council in court and it looks promising. Here is our website....

https://atheistsinkenya.com/

BTW I am an atheist

Muafrika2:


Differences between tribe are easy to pick out. Kenya is where you find Bantus, Nilotes and Cushites. They are physically different. There are also differences within the tribes that make the groups.

Hmm, so i guess you'd be able to tell me which Kenyan tribes these individual handsome Kenyan men below are from .
I find this kind of Kenyan faces very attractive, especially this first man.

PissedYagami:

You should listen to Elani

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZUoUxAhJmQ
And Kiswahili is not owned by anyone iansweets. It is not Kenyan or Tanzanian. It is East African. Swahili language was as a result of trade where Arabs and Bantus mixed. Actually the closest related language to Kiswahili is Mijikenda, which is Kenyan. Swahili culture stretches from Southern Somalia, Kenya, Zanzibar, Tanzania, and Northern Mozambique. Actually the earliest Swahili culture developed in the Tana Valley and the Lamu Islands(which is in Kenya), from indigenous Bantu speaking population, around the sixth century. By the 10th century, Islam was beginning to take root as it was reported that Kanbalu was run by muslims. Trading opportunities saw the arrival of Arab, Persian, and Indian merchants. In 916, Al-Masudi visited the Swahili coast or "Land of the Zanj." Between 1050-1200, a wave of immigration from Persia seems to have occurred, causing a southern migration from Shungwaya and Lamu to Zanzibar, Pemba, Mafia, and Kilwa.
http://www.afropedea.org/swahili-city-states

Swahili accents are very different even here in Kenya. Yes, Tanzanians speak nicer swahili than Kenyans generally but, I think people from the Kenyan coast have the sweetest Kiswahili accent. There is the standard Kiswahili then people from differnt regions have different lahaja(dialects). Even in DRC they have some dialect, the same way English has variants, Indian English, Nigerian English etc

K, great. I guess av learned. I guess i just concluded that swahili has more roots in Tanzania because of their sweeter tone of speaking and singing it, the cultures of Zanzibar and the fact that most online reports claim that 99% of Tanzanians speak swahili of which a large percentage are first speakers compared to Kenya with a lower percentage of first and second language speakers of swahili.

The song Elani, i guess it's Kenyan right? It's nice.
Do u know Tanzanian Alikiba? If yes, how do u rate his music? Cos the way that guy sings his swahili melts my heart (i could learn swahili just because of his music). That's the kind of swahili (bongo) tone am talking about.

In Kenya there is a slang called Sheng, not official but it is popular informally
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheng_slang

ianSweet:


K, great. I guess av learned. I guess i just concluded that swahili has more roots in Tanzania because of their sweeter tone of speaking and singing it, the cultures of Zanzibar and the fact that most online reports claim that 99% of Tanzanians speak swahili of which a large percentage are first speakers compared to Kenya with a lower percentage of first and second language speakers of swahili.

The song Elani, i guess it's Kenyan right? It's nice.
Do u know Alikiba? If yes, how do u rate his music? Cos the way that guy sings his swahili melts my heart. That's the kind of bongo tone am talking about.

In Tanzania they tried to discourage tribal languages and they taught every subject in Kiswahili. Plus they tried to get rid of European languages there. Thats why almost everyone speaks Swahili there. In Kenya everything is taught in English. Very few Tanzanians can speak in English. Most Kenyans are trilingual: Mother tongue, Kiswahili and English.

ianSweet:


The song Elani, i guess it's Kenyan right? It's nice.
Do u know Tanzanian Alikiba? If yes, how do u rate his music? Cos the way that guy sings his swahili melts my heart (i could learn swahili just because of his music). That's the kind of swahili (bongo) tone am talking about.

Yes Elani are Kenyan.
I know who Ali Kiba is. I guess I have known him for more than a decade now. But, to be honest I do not listen to his music. I listen to a different genre of music. So I cannot rate him

gallivant:



My frustration continues!

No man, the clown was trying to draw parallels between civilization and disappearance of wildlife. Learn to read please.

Where can wildlife be found in West Africa? In the forest.

What brings about disappearance of wildlife in some parts of Africa? There are many factors but in case of West Africa, it is simply deforestation. And deforestation has negative implications on the environment in terms of soil erosion, loss of biodiversity ecosystems, loss of wildlife and increased desertification among many other reasons.

What brings about deforestation? logging, subsistence agriculture, collection of fuel woods, temperatures, and decreasing rainfall and growing population.

What will bring about some of these features of deforestation? Civilization. How? Let us define civilization.


What is civilization?

A civilization (or civilisation, see spelling differences) is any complex society characterized by urban development, social stratification, symbolic communication forms (typically, writing systems), and a perceived separation from and domination over the natural environment by a cultural elite. Civilizations are intimately associated with and often further defined by other socio-politico-economic characteristics, including centralization, the domestication of both humans and other organisms, specialization of labour, culturally ingrained ideologies of progress and supremacism, monumental architecture, taxation, societal dependence upon farming as an agricultural [/b]practice, and [b]expansionism.

How does civilization then correlates with deforestation?

Simple. From the definition of civilization, you can see that urban development, symbol communication, socio-politico-economic characteristics, monumental architecture, farming as an agricultural practice and expansionism as the features of civilization.

Therefore, we can see that civilization resulted to deforestation to give way to large urbanized Kingdoms and Empires in West Africa. Civilization brought about logging for making monumental architectures(sculptures, Houses, hand crafts etc), civilization brought about the clearing of large forest to give way to farming due to the quest for prosperous economy to build and maintain a large army like the Oyo Empire. Army also needs weapons hence the use of wood to make iron weapons,etc I can go on and on and on.

All these lead/led to deforestation and lost of wildlife.

I hope you understand simple thing?

gallivant:


I thought you said Nigeria was more civilized since you had no animals unlike Kenya so I assumed maybe you don't quite understand the concept that is civilization. Evidently, you still haven't googled it or you are shifting goal posts. Sad.

See the above for clarification.

Now, who does not know the concept of civilization?

ianSweet:


Since swahili evolved around the coasts and spread hinterlands then i think coastal swahili is unarguably purer. It's just like the Nigerian pidgin which also evolved around Nigeria's southern and southwestern coasts and truly the best speakers of Nigeria's pidgin who speak it more often are those from the Niger-deltan (southern coastal) areas of Nigeria.

No it didn't, 99% of the language is pure Bantu. When the Portuguese and Arabs landed they found a thriving lingua franca.If anything the Arab influence corrupted it.

forgiveness:


See the above for clarification.

Now, who those not know the concept of civilization?

That lame reply took you long enough. I hope you didn't waste your whole afternoon captain obvious.

ianSweet:


Hmm, so i guess you'd be able to tell me which Kenyan tribes these individual handsome Kenyan men below are from .
I find this kind of Kenyan faces very attractive, especially this first man.

You can't really tell. Kenyans come in all shapes, sizes and colour.

ianSweet:


K, great. I guess av learned. I guess i just concluded that swahili has more roots in Tanzania because of their sweeter tone of speaking and singing it, the cultures of Zanzibar and the fact that most online reports claim that 99% of Tanzanians speak swahili of which a large percentage are first speakers compared to Kenya with a lower percentage of first and second language speakers of swahili.

Okay lets not focus on revisionist history but facts! You have been explained the roots of the language, it's earliest settlements and closest tribal cousins(Mijikenda). You have also been told why most Tanzanians speak Swahili, it's their national/official language and their medium of instruction in all national institutions.In Kenya and Uganda its different. English is the official language while Swahili is the national language.

ianSweet:


Hmm, so i guess you'd be able to tell me which Kenyan tribes these individual handsome Kenyan men below are from .
I find this kind of Kenyan faces very attractive, especially this first man.

Kikuyu, Kikuyu and Luo

Luos are tall

gallivant:


I would say so far so good. At the moment we are in the grassroots level, we have had our battles with the Attorney General, Catholic church, Muslim council in court and it looks promising. Here is our website....

https://atheistsinkenya.com/

PissedYagami:


BTW I am an atheist

What?

Most Kenyans in here are atheists This forum is attractive to atheists I think.

IanSweet
I just lost a few paragraphs on Kikuyus and politics, business and numbers

And then grading of towns into cities by the Kenyan government

Here is my home town, Kakamega

KAKAMEGA

Kakamega (photo credits to Muafrika2 )

Kakamega town..