4everGod:


When did i give you that link? Are you confused?

I beg your pardon. I've always had difficulty distinguishing Horse poo from donkey poo.

truthislight:


If someone that has the Holy spirit like Apostle Paul said wrote something, who should we say it is from?

You sef, do you have Holy Spirit or do you not have Holy spirit?


the things you write, who do you say it is from?

PastorAIO:


You sef, do you have Holy Spirit or do you not have Holy spirit?


the things you write, who do you say it is from?

Apostle Paul said he was inspired to write and later claimed he too has holy spirit.

I did not claim to be inspired to write, I only claim to read to understand, then write.

So, Paul said later in that same chapter that he too has Holy spirit. should we still conclude that he spoke from his own originality?

truthislight:


Apostle Paul said he was inspired to write and later claimed he too has holy spirit.

I did not claim to be inspired to write, I only claim to read to understand, then write.

So, Paul said later in that same chapter that he too has Holy spirit. should we still conclude that he spoke from his own originality?

Please quote what he said and show us how it pertains to his claim to speak of his own volition and NOT FROM THE LORD.

Unless 'Not from the Lord' means 'from the lord' if you have holy spirit.

truthislight:


Apostle Paul said he was inspired to write and later claimed he too has holy spirit.

I did not claim to be inspired to write, I only claim to read to understand, then write.

So, Paul said later in that same chapter that he too has Holy spirit. should we still conclude that he spoke from his own originality?

Oh, and btw, you did not even answer my question. Do you have Holy Spirit, or not?

PastorAIO:


Please quote what he said and show us how it pertains to his claim to speak of his own volition and NOT FROM THE LORD.

Unless 'Not from the Lord' means 'from the lord' if you have holy spirit.

1Cor 7:40

40 But in my opinion, she is happier if she remains as she is; and I certainly think I also have God's spirit.

^^^
Since he said he has God's spirit, should we discard his statement earlier?

PastorAIO:


Oh, and btw, you did not even answer my question. Do you have Holy Spirit, or not?

Every body lives by God's spirit, but God also use his spirit to do divers things.

That I have God's spirit has not made me to write part of the Bible, has it?

In the case of Apostle Paul, the spirit aided him and transmitted what to write in his specialty of writing the holy Scriptures.

PastorAIO:


Oh, and btw, you did not even answer my question. Do you have Holy Spirit, or not?

Every body lives by God's spirit, but God also use his spirit to do divers things.

That I live by God's spirit has not made me to write part of the Bible, has it?

In the case of Apostle Paul, the spirit aided him and transmitted what to write in his specialty of writing the holy Scriptures.

truthislight:


Every body lives by God's spirit, but God also use his spirit to do divers things.

That I live by God's spirit has not made me to write part of the Bible, has it?

In the case of Apostle Paul, the spirit aided him and transmitted what to write in his specialty of writing the holy Scriptures.

Leaving aside the question of authenticity in the letters of paul, I don't believe that when Paul was writing his various letters that he thought that he was writing scriptures. You write letters. I write letters. I write letters admonishing and advising people. So do many people write such letters.

To have the Holy Spirit and to write letters does not make the letter a special divine scripture from God.

truthislight:


1Cor 7:40

40 But in my opinion, she is happier if she remains as she is; and I certainly think I also have God's spirit.

This is not a claim for divine authority. He does not claim that it comes from the spirit but says he THINKS (he has the opinion) that he has the spirit.

There is no way that you can make 'NOT FROM THE LORD' into anything other than what it says.

If I say, 'I haven't heard from TruthisLight, but I think He is waiting for the second coming of Mohammed, and I certainly think he would agree with me.' There is no way you can take that to mean that I authoritatively know that Truthislight is wait for the return of Mohammad.

PastorAIO:


This is not a claim for divine authority. He does not claim that it comes from the spirit but says he THINKS (he has the opinion) that he has the spirit.

There is no way that you can make 'NOT FROM THE LORD' into anything other than what it says.

If I say, 'I haven't heard from TruthisLight, but I think He is waiting for the second coming of Mohammed, and I certainly think he would agree with me.' There is no way you can take that to mean that I authoritatively know that Truthislight is wait for the return of Mohammad.

You do have a way with deception when you make comments. I have already trashed your "NOT FROM THE LORD" position earlier and all you are doing now is dishonestly trying to claim you are right when you are obviously wrong and have been repeatedly shown your error.

Anyone who decides to keep indulging in your manipulation of Gods word in deceit would only be wasting their time as you are already set on your course.

Anas09:
Can you make me love you? You make me obey you, but can you make me love you?
Do even know what love is?

congratulations, you've just typed rubbish.

read what you wrote again and see for yourself.

4everGod:



You do have a way with deception when you make comments. I have already trashed your "NOT FROM THE LORD" position earlier and all you are doing now is dishonestly trying to claim you are right when you are obviously wrong and have been repeatedly shown your error.

Anyone who decides to keep indulging in your manipulation of Gods word in deceit would only be wasting their time as you are already set on your course.

This is where we left off our dialogue. Go and address that. The post above is for someone else coming from a different angle.


The following is where you should continue from.

PastorAIO:


No, you're just dribbling yourself.

I, too, said that as the Ominipotentate God is the ultimate arbiter of everything. Including Forgiveness. Including the Transgression sef. Nothing can happen without the say so of the ominipotentate.

That was not the point. You failed to address the point that I actually made.

This is what you said:




This is what the link said, and note the part that I highlighted which is the pertinent point:



That bolded part is an absolute lie. Read John Chapter 20 again.

23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”



If you know you can twist this verse, please go ahead. Show us how.

As an english speaker, this verse is clear as daylight to me. It contradicts everything you are saying and exposes you for a lying charlatan.

Jesus did impart the power to forgive sins to humans.

Furthermore he clearly states that when they forgive that forgives is real and the people are forgiven. When they don't forgive those people are NOT forgiven. So obviously the act of forgiveness affects the transgressor as well as the person transgressed.

It used to surprise me, but not anymore, how easy it is for so called christians to dismiss the direct words of Jesus as found in the bible and still maintain that they are christian, even the True christians more than everybody else.

The pertinent points raised:

You claimed that - The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anyone else.


I responded with John 20 - 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


You haven't explained how your opinion supercedes Jesus' words.

After you have done so then you can chook your mouth into what I'm saying to Truthislight.

PastorAIO:


Leaving aside the question of authenticity in the letters of paul, I don't believe that when Paul was writing his various letters that he thought that he was writing scriptures. You write letters. I write letters. I write letters admonishing and advising people. So do many people write such letters.

To have the Holy Spirit and to write letters does not make the letter a special divine scripture from God.

2peter 3:15,16
15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
..............................

They wrote letters to teach different congregations on what they needed to do as Christians.

And that is applicable to all Christians today.

I hope the problem would not be Peter ^^^^ next.

PastorAIO:


This is where we left off our dialogue. Go and address that. The post above is for someone else coming from a different angle.


The following is where you should continue from.




The pertinent points raised:

You claimed that - The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anyone else.


I responded with John 20 - 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


You haven't explained how your opinion supercedes Jesus' words.

After you have done so then you can chook your mouth into what I'm saying to Truthislight.

You and dalaman are obviously plucked from the same tree

John 20:21-24English Standard Version (ESV)

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Before you talk about the forgiveness of sins there is that premise in bold. Can you tell me what God sent Jesus to do in the World? Lets clear that up first then we can now freely tackle the forgiveness of sins. Can i have your answer.

PastorAIO:


Leaving aside the question of authenticity in the letters of paul, I don't believe that when Paul was writing his various letters that he thought that he was writing scriptures. You write letters. I write letters. I write letters admonishing and advising people. So do many people write such letters.

To have the Holy Spirit and to write letters does not make the letter a special divine scripture from God.

Peter said that his letters were special Devine letters given to him.

PastorAIO:


This is not a claim for divine authority. He does not claim that it comes from the spirit but says he THINKS (he has the opinion) that he has the spirit.

There is no way that you can make 'NOT FROM THE LORD' into anything other than what it says.

If I say, 'I haven't heard from TruthisLight, but I think He is waiting for the second coming of Mohammed, and I certainly think he would agree with me.' There is no way you can take that to mean that I authoritatively know that Truthislight is wait for the return of Mohammad.

That's your words against Peter's.

4everGod:



You and dalaman are obviously plucked from the same tree

John 20:21-24English Standard Version (ESV)

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Before you talk about the forgiveness of sins there is that premise in bold. Can you tell me what God sent Jesus to do in the World? Lets clear that up first then we can now freely tackle the forgiveness of sins. Can i have your answer.

They are to spread the message of God and to also forgive sins as well. What are you on about?

truthislight:


2peter 3:15,16
15 Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
..............................

They wrote letters to teach different congregations on what they needed to do as Christians.

And that is applicable to all Christians today.

truthislight:


That's your words against Peter's.

First point. I don't think Peter wrote that letter called 2Peter. That is not really important but if you want to go into it as a separate issue then start by reading the whole of that chapter that you quoted. It is basically about the return of Jesus. Then return to verse 3 and read:

scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”



Then ask yourself who were these fathers that had fallen asleep. remember that Peter died in 64AD about 30 years after christ. St. James the head of the church in Jerusalem is said to have died in 62AD. Who were the fathers that had died leaving the christians open to mockery that instead of Jesus returning things are continuing as normal and people are dying off.


But to continue with the main point:

'According to the wisdom given to him' has nothing to do with divine inspiration. Have you too not been given wisdom? Does everybody not act according to the wisdom that is given to them?

Paul wrote letters according to his own understanding (according to the wisdom given to him).

truthislight:
I hope the problem would not be Peter ^^^^ next.

it doesn't have to be. The issue of the authenticity of peter does not have to touch on the issue discussed. But I gave you a little something to ruminate on regarding Peter.

4everGod:



You and dalaman are obviously plucked from the same tree

John 20:21-24English Standard Version (ESV)

21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I am sending you.” 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Before you talk about the forgiveness of sins there is that premise in bold. Can you tell me what God sent Jesus to do in the World? Lets clear that up first then we can now freely tackle the forgiveness of sins. Can i have your answer.

That issue has nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

As Jesus was sent so were the Disciples. As the Father sent Jesus and Jesus went and could forgive sins, so to he sent the disciples and the disciples too could forgive sins.

PastorAIO:


This is where we left off our dialogue. Go and address that. The post above is for someone else coming from a different angle.


The following is where you should continue from.




The pertinent points raised:

You claimed that - The Lord did not grant that right to the apostles or anyone else.


I responded with John 20 - 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.”


You haven't explained how your opinion supercedes Jesus' words.

After you have done so then you can chook your mouth into what I'm saying to Truthislight.

You still haven't explained how your opinion supercedes Jesus' words. Or even how 2Peter supercedes Jesus' words.

truthislight:


Peter said that his letters were special Devine letters given to him.

No he didn't! Haba!!

Where did you even see divine in the passage?

dalaman:


[b]They are to spread the message of God[/b]and to also forgive sins as well. What are you on about?

Now you are talking. So what is the message of God and what is the purpose of that message?

truthislight:



They wrote letters to teach different congregations on what they needed to do as Christians.

And that is applicable to all Christians today.

The following is from Hamlet, a play by William Shakespeare in which he puts into the mouth of a character called Polonius these words of advice. Polonius is talking to his son Laertes who is travelling abroad. What he tells him is also applicable to all young men who travel abroad till this day.

Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue, 545
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar:
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment 550
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment. 555
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are most select and generous, chief in that. 560
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all- to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day, 565
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell.

In case you are having difficulty with the english it can be translated as this:

Watch your character. it's not everything you think that you must say.
It is not everything you think you must act on.
Be friendly with everyone but not common. Those good friends you make
Hold them tight. But it is not every acquaintance that you'll become buddies with.
Try not to get into any fights, but once you find yourself in a fight, make such
an example of the person that no one will want to fight you again.

Listen to advice from everybody, but, you, advice only a few.
Cut your coat according to your size. Don't be flashy in clothes.
People will judge you by your clothes. Especially french people.
Don't borrow money and don't lend. borrowed money often disappears
along with the friehdship.
Be true to yourself.

There is nothing divine inspiration here. This is just the common sense acquired with age. Yet it is applicable till today.

Se you get my meaning.

Paul's advise may be useful but that doesn't make it of divine authority.

PastorAIO:


That issue has nothing to do with the forgiveness of sins.

As Jesus was sent so were the Disciples. As the Father sent Jesus and Jesus went and could forgive sins, so to he sent the disciples and the disciples too could forgive sins.

Young man you can deceive anyone but certainly not me. What did God send Jesus to do which he in turn sent his disciples? He obviously saw it as being very important which was why he said it before talking about forgiveness of sins.

You can try and deceive yourself that it had nothing to do with your focus but for it to precede the forgiveness of sins then it was a first assignment. Whenever you are ready you can now be honest for once by telling me what God sent Jesus to do which Jesus in turn sent the disciples to also do.

Mention me when you are ready to answer this simple question.

4everGod:


ow you are talking. So what is the message of God and what is the purpose of that message?

Where are your question heading? Because though you are being answered you still cannot make a single point. What has this got to do with whether Men can forgive sins or not?

PastorAIO:


The following is from Hamlet, a play by William Shakespeare in which he puts into the mouth of a character called Polonius these words of advice. Polonius is talking to his son Laertes who is travelling abroad. What he tells him is also applicable to all young men who travel abroad till this day.

Look thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue, 545
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar:
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them unto thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment 550
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledg'd comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that th' opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thine ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment. 555
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are most select and generous, chief in that. 560
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all- to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day, 565
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell.

In case you are having difficulty with the english it can be translated as this:

Watch your character. it's not everything you think that you must say.
It is not everything you think you must act on.
Be friendly with everyone but not common. Those good friends you make
Hold them tight. But it is not every acquaintance that you'll become buddies with.
Try not to get into any fights, but once you find yourself in a fight, make such
an example of the person that no one will want to fight you again.

Listen to advice from everybody, but, you, advice only a few.
Cut your coat according to your size. Don't be flashy in clothes.
People will judge you by your clothes. Especially french people.
Don't borrow money and don't lend. borrowed money often disappears
along with the friehdship.
Be true to yourself.

There is nothing divine inspiration here. This is just the common sense acquired with age. Yet it is applicable till today.

Se you get my meaning.

Paul's advise may be useful but that doesn't make it of divine authority.

Lmao so now its hamlet versus Paul and Peter? Lmao such desperate dishonesty. You are the one who has not been true to yourself right from your first click on the keyboard.

PastorAIO:


Where are your question heading? Because though you are being answered you still cannot make a single point. What has this got to do with whether Men can forgive sins or not?

I answered your own comment so answer mine. If you do not know where its leading to then its for you to find out isnt it?

What did God send Jesus to do which He obviously felt it was important enough to mention it prior to him saying anything about forgiveness of sins.

AS GOD SENT ME SO SEND I YOU.... What was the purpose of the "sending" by God of Jesus?

4everGod:


Young man you can deceive anyone but certainly not me. What did God send Jesus to do which he in turn sent his disciples? He obviously saw it as being very important which was why he said it before talking about forgiveness of sins.

You can try and deceive yourself that it had nothing to do with your focus but for it to precede the forgiveness of sins then it was a first assignment. Whenever you are ready you can now be honest for once by telling me what God sent Jesus to do which Jesus in turn sent the disciples to also do.

Mention me when you are ready to answer this simple question.

What Jesus was sent to do varies from denomination to denomination.

Se you will agree that 'Jesus came to die for our sins'? Now you are not going to say that the apostles too were sent out to die for man's sins. I hope not anyway. Although nothing will surprise me now.

There is nothing in Jesus' commission of the Apostles that suggests that they cannot forgive sins.