Kenya Rift Valley

ianSweet:


The pure hausas are the farmers, while a subgroup of the pure fulanis (fulani bororo) are the herders. The majority of pure fulanis and almost all hausanized fulanis live in towns and cities and are mostly business people, politicians, aristocrats and religious leaders, they do not farm as such.

Aristocrats? How do they do that one

Hills, mountains & Lakes-Kenya
Lake Nakuru
Lake Elementaita
Lake Bogoria
Lake Magadi

ianSweet:


Ok.

But am also interested in these Nubians cos am a historian. Do these nubians still speak their native sudanic languages? Can they still trace their ways back to their homelands in Sudan? What ethnicity do they profess in Kenya?

Most of them Nubians have married within themselves... they still use their own language thou with both English & swahili as part of their written language.

Meanwhile enjoy the Kenyan magic

Just30:
it's Kenya's time to give us PLO Lumumba to help us put our public service in order

PLO is the worst kind of guy to lead a public institution...

Muafrika2:

Aristocrats? How do they do that one

We have hundreds of monarchs in Nigeria or don't u know? Northern societies are usually very much class structured with extremely rich political and traditional ruling families at the top.

Kenyanstar:

Most of them Nubians have married within themselves... they still use their own language thou with both English & swahili as part of their written language.

Meanwhile enjoy the Kenyan magic

Ok

Pls i think we are tired of these pictures. I have seen all about Kenya that i needed to see from the beginning of this thread till now.
Don't take this thread back to the way it was where everyone were posting good pics about their countries and terrible pics to discredit the other.

Pls KenyanStar, enough of the pictures. Thousands have been posted already with so much emotional issues attached to them.
Kenya has good and terrible looking places, Nigeria too. So no need to overflog these issues.

ianSweet:


We have hundreds of monarchs in Nigeria or don't u know? Northern societies are usually very much class structured with extremely rich political and traditional ruling families at the top.

I see them on movies. So they are that many? But they must be engaged in business, otherwise I don't see how that would be a source of living with out the power to levy taxes on their subjects.

Kenyanstar:

PLO is the worst kind of guy to lead a public institution...

our political appointees lack the courage to do the needful so we will need an outsider to take those decisions.

Kenyanstar

Don't stop. We should fill the rest of the pages with Magical Kenya now that the discussion has reached a logical conclusion .

Kenyanstar:

PLO is the worst kind of guy to lead a public institution...

But how my brother? I know many who studied law and were taught by him who say he's a very ethical man. His tenure at EACC was doomed from the start since that agency is very insincere and flooded by moles of the corrupt classes.

Just30:
our political appointees lack the courage to do the needful so we will need an outsider to take those decisions.

I agree.We all need hard nosed serious professionals in charge. Real capn's. Some of the people put in charge are simply spineless or are shameless pawns of their political or ethnic overlords.

Muafrika2:

Aristocrats? How do they do that one

I have been doing some reading lately. Apparently, in northern Nigeria, there exist a rigid class/social dichotomy between the classes which can't be broken anytime soon. Straight outta 1500. Ufalme na watawalwa. Sultan vs subjects. Strict and unyielding. The devaluation of women goes without saying as does access to formal education.

MtuMsuper:

I have been doing some reading lately. Apparently, in northern Nigeria, there exist a rigid class/social dichotomy between the classes which can't be broken anytime soon. Straight outta 1500. Ufalme na watawalwa. Sultan vs subjects. Strict and unyielding. The devaluation of women goes without saying as does access to formal education.

My God!!

It explains the rebellion by BH and co. all over the North

Muafrika2:
Kenyanstar

Don't stop. We should fill the rest of the pages with Magical Kenya now that the discussion has reached a logical conclusion .

And what is that logical conclusion?

Muafrika2:

I see them on movies. So they are that many? But they must be engaged in business, otherwise I don't see how that would be a source of living with out the power to levy taxes on their subjects.

No, they do not necessarily have to engage in business activities because they are paid by the state and federal govts regularly (good sum). They are also paid by their subjects (from free will). Politicians pay them too heavily to get their blessings and support.

For instance if any foreign or even any big local company want to site something in a place, they must see the traditional leader or monarch first and surely dealing away some good money must be involved.
Being a monarch of a place also somehow gives you ownership to so much land areas in that place, infact they are just very relevant in Nigeria and due to their relevance, top people who want to gain a greater say in a particular place must seek their alliance and this involves some good hard cash involved.

Muafrika2:
Kenyanstar

Don't stop. We should fill the rest of the pages with Magical Kenya now that the discussion has reached a logical conclusion .

Stop being childish.
We have been doing that since the beginning of this thread and it is now close to 300 pages. What difference has it made?

Muafrika2:

My God!!

It explains the rebellion by BH and co. all over the North

As in 9-10 year old girls regularly become brides to 40 + year old men. I also discovered that in that half of Nigeria, Koranic education or what we call madrassa in Kenya ,is the predominant form of education. No wonder hare brained schemes like BH take root easily : the people are poor, uneducated and uninformed. Mtaji wa ugaidi.
My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

MtuMsuper:

I have been doing some reading lately. Apparently, in northern Nigeria, there exist a rigid class/social dichotomy between the classes which can't be broken anytime soon. Straight outta 1500. Ufalme na watawalwa. Sultan vs subjects. Strict and unyielding. The devaluation of women goes without saying as does access to formal education.

You have a point, but please not the whole northern Nigeria (but core-northern Nigeria), especially the Hausa- fulani- Kanuri and other strict islamic areas.
I can give u some reasons for such.

Unlike southern and some central Nigerians who are very capitalistic and individualistic, most core northern Nigerians believe in fate and the will of Allah (based on islam) that wealth is not meant for everyone so people who are from poor backgrounds should be contented with their poverty.
You must know that islam has been deeply entrenched in the core-northern Nigerian society that it has become so much into them just like Arabs and even till date many of them hold preference of Islamic arabic education to western education.
Most northern Nigerians do not have this 'get rich or die trying' mentality and that is why poverty and illiteracy is higher in northern Nigeria.

Unfortunately, the rich elite class of the core-north have taken advantage of this situation and used it to become more wealthy and influential in Nigeria (it's just very terrible).
However, the nature of the south (which makes it more progressive) and pressure for western education is gradually rubbing off on the north and most northern and central christians and even the core-northern muslims (though to a lesser extent) are now shifting their mentality to a southern one by the day. So with more contact of southernerns and northernerns, the class (caste-like) structure of core-northern Nigeria might eventually die.

Muafrika2:

I see them on movies. So they are that many? But they must be engaged in business, otherwise I don't see how that would be a source of living with out the power to levy taxes on their subjects.

So, do u mean there are no monarchs and royal fathers in Kenya and all over east Africa?

ianSweet:


No, they do not necessarily have to engage in business activities because they are paid by the state and federal govts regularly (good sum). They are also paid by their subjects (from free will). Politicians pay them too heavily to get their blessings and support.

For instance if any foreign or even any big local company want to site something in a place, they must see the traditional leader or monarch first and surely dealing away some good money must be involved.
Being a monarch of a place also somehow gives you ownership to so much land areas in that place, infact they are just very relevant in Nigeria and due to their relevance, top people who want to gain a greater say in a particular place must seek their alliance and this involves some good hard cash involved.

I see

MtuMsuper:

As in 9-10 year old girls regularly become brides to 40 + year old men. I also discovered that in that half of Nigeria, Koranic education or what we call madrassa in Kenya ,is the predominant form of education. No wonder hare brained schemes like BH take root easily : the people are poor, uneducated and uninformed. Mtaji wa ugaidi.
My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

I will say, again, you have a point, but it's not entirely as u see it.
Take this issue of child marriage for instance, it is slowly dying in northern muslim Nigeria because the people are now being gradually enlightened and pls 9-10 years age of underage marriage is very unrealistic.
I am a northerner, so i can tell u the reality on ground. In the past, i could tell u that the dominant marriage age among the poorer lower class for ladies should be like 13-15 with the ladies absolutely having no choice of their own, but that trend is really dying as the girls are now attending western schools to a greater extent and are gradually making their choices and the marriage age range for majority of the talakawa (poor masses in hausa) has now grown to like 15-17 years.

The reason why core northern muslim Nigerians still somewhat have a preference for islamic education is because they were the first set of people to start going to school in Nigeria since pre colonial times and even before the british came, islamic education had taken hold in their society. This was specifically the reason why the british colonialists chose to empower the Hausa-fulanis over other Nigerians politically because the british came and met them reading and writing with arabic education. The people took pride in it and that is why till date, many cannot let it go and many prefer it ti western education.

ianSweet:


So, do u mean there are no monarchs and royal fathers in Kenya and all over east Africa?

Not overbearing ones

Our traditional societies were not oppressive There are countless.

MtuMsuper:


My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

Almost all Nigerians have access to education now because the state and federal govt have been doing so much im that aspect. State owned schools are scott free from the primary to secondary levels and almost all communities have at least a primary and secondary school, it is their right.
Middle class and richer Nigerians only send their children to private schools and sometimes federal govt schools but never state govt schools. Our federal and state govt universities are also very cheap that even the poor people can afford them and many states govts even pay their own indigenes money for being in schools. So, going to school in Nigeria is more of choice.

Southern Nigerian soil is more fertile, just that the north has more vast lands (bigger) and have a higher rural population. The south being about a quarter of the north is smaller and is rapidly becoming urbanized. The discovery and exploration of crude oil in the south is also not helping matters as almsot everyone there want to eat crude oil money, so they rapidly abandoned farming in the last few decades, if not, during colonial times there was a tough competition between all Nigerian regions om farming, we all farmed equally then.

Muafrika2:

Not overbearing ones

Our traditional societies were not oppressive There are countless.

Pre colonial Nigeria had many kingdoms and even empires with very very powerful monarchs and the colonial masters did not abolish them or even reduce their influence as such, they used these traditional rulers for indirect rule system and even empowered them more in parts of the country. This is why they are quite powerful in Nigeria.
Infact let me shock u, in some parts of Nigeria, the monarchs can even issue a decree which most residents of a whole city must abide to.

MtuMsuper:

As in 9-10 year old girls regularly become brides to 40 + year old men. I also discovered that in that half of Nigeria, Koranic education or what we call madrassa in Kenya ,is the predominant form of education. No wonder hare brained schemes like BH take root easily : the people are poor, uneducated and uninformed. Mtaji wa ugaidi.
My research also led me to discover that depending on alot of things, one can say that the southern and predominantly Christian south are more receptive to formal education. Still lots of people are disadvantaged and access to education depends hugely on one's socio economic station. And gender.
I also know that most of agriculture takes place in the north where the climate is savanna, as opposed to the southern tropical forest belt.
There are many Nigerias.

Indeed.

There is nothing as dangerous as drilling young minds with prophecies of Islamic conquest and starving them of any other form of education. They are assured of a continuous supply of commited suicide bombers over the coming 100 years.

ianSweet:


Pre colonial Nigeria had many kingdoms and even empires with very very powerful monarchs and the colonial masters did not abolish them or even reduce their influence as such, they used these traditional rulers for indirect rule system and even empowered them more in parts of the country. This is why they are quite powerful in Nigeria.
Infact let me shock u, in some parts of Nigeria, the monarchs can even issue a decree which most residents of a whole city must abide to.

What kind of issues do they decree over? Local disputes like family, Crime and cultural rites?

https://www.instagram.com/miantaqeel/

This guy has some really cool Kenyan pictures

Muafrika2:

What kind of issues do they decree over? Local disputes like family, Crime and cultural rites?

Yes, both local, family, crime, cultural rites and many others. It differs from tribe to tribe and community to community tho.

ianSweet:


Yes, both local, family, crime, cultural rites and many others. It differs from tribe to tribe and community to community tho.

Alright.

And the class divisions? Are there castes in the North?

Based on tribe?

Any slaves?

Do the Kings have title deeds to their community land or is it more of a presumed trust? How do their subjects access them for things like farming?

ianSweet:


Almost all Nigerians have access to education now because the state and federal govt have been doing so much im that aspect. State owned schools are scott free from the primary to secondary levels and almost all communities have at least a primary and secondary school, it is their right.
Middle class and richer Nigerians only send their children to private schools and sometimes federal govt schools but never state govt schools. Our federal and state govt universities are also very cheap that even the poor people can afford them and many states govts even pay their own indigenes money for being in schools. So, going to school in Nigeria is more of choice.

Southern Nigerian soil is more fertile, just that the north has more vast lands (bigger) and have a higher rural population. The south being about a quarter of the north is smaller and is rapidly becoming urbanized. The discovery and exploration of crude oil in the south is also not helping matters as almsot everyone there want to eat crude oil money, so they rapidly abandoned farming in the last few decades, if not, during colonial times there was a tough competition between all Nigerian regions om farming, we all farmed equally then.

I am disturbed by the fact that going to school now becomes a choice!!!! Education is everything. Education Education Education!! It must be compulsory for all school going kids. You are liable for arrest in Kenya if you fail to take your kids to school.
Now explain to me further about this decree thing. Does this decree by a traditional leader supercede the (secular ) law? By the way, am fully aware that there are Nigerian states that practice Sharia Law. How does this situation stand with regard to the Nigerian constitution? Also, how do we have separate laws for separate people within the same country : are people equal in Nigeria, is it wrong to say that technically there is no Nigeria since you will be judged differently based on one's religion. I find it so confusing that different codes of law can operate in a "country " ,that is if we understand a country to be a single political entity governed by a code known as a constitution.