Stalwert:


Sir read the statement a second time, he never made this claims of yours. In fact he said mordernist Muslims reaction to criticism of western ideas merely states that the questioner is acting out fundamentalism instead of properly articulating a good refutation.

So what is the difference? Are people not the one practicing Islam and dividing into sects? The modernist Muslims criticize the traditional Muslims, the traditional Muslims criticize modernist Muslims, all sects criticize themselves, it goes round and round.

The writer claim modernist arguments are based on western ideas

The so called western ideology he's talking about is just an ideology(ideas) not a belief a person must hold on to.

mostly seems like a security arrangement. ... and please does being friends with someone means he takes credit for your achievements?

Yes, in Africa today we give the west credit for our civilization and development. That's my argument.

E.g In news you will see "Nigeria partner with France to build airports". Is that not giving credit?

E.g - My friend Rilwayne001 gave me $100K to invest in a business.

I doubt it. Have you noticed you are you doing exactly the same thing you falsely accuse the author of? Crediting the west with the progress made in countries in the MIddle East instead of assuming these people used their common sense to move forward?

Using common sense to move forward is another thing, this is a way of developing ideas and part of it is partnership and trading when it comes to developing a country.

The author claim being rational is base on having western ideas, that a modernist rational argument is of western ideas.

Being rational has to do with thinking and research, that's what the early philosophers did.

Sorry how many countries are friends with the West that are currently in shambles? And you say Pakistan is not developed? A country that is a nuclear power and produces Fighter jets a feat only a few countries achieved? Please stop attributing things that are you simply do not know are the cause of other things. Please remind me how Iraq got to where it is today?

Pakistan, iraq are developing countries not developed country. Nigeria is a developing country.

Pakistan having nuclear weapon doesn't make them a developed country yet.

Sir you have failed to prove that the article is junk.... rather you have avoided refuting it and seem to serially misunderstand the point the author said which clearly indicated that muslims who are in love with western ideology fails to make a logical defense of their position but instead wave aside all criticisms.

@bolded is not my argument, I've stated reasons for calling the article junk.

If you are studying philosophy let's know ... the write up isn't about having a rational mind it is about rationally defending western ideals if you accept them.

No, the write up claim modernist rational arguments are base on western ideas which is false, he believes all modernist thinking and skeptics are result of western ideology.

He even go as far as saying modernist don't question anything western. This falls to the question, is being rational a thing of having western ideas or studying, thinking and doing research?

Before I accept any ideology, I do my research and thinking.

E g Hadiths said yawning is from Satan, it is bad to yawn and many traditional Muslim will accept this without doing no research, from my own rational thought and research it is very normal for all human to yawn because when our brain is heat up we release fluid and blood from the brain downward to our body spine and take in oxygen this process(yawning) is to cool the brain.

E.g The western said Polygamy is illegal but from my research humans have been polygamous right from the time of early humans/primitive people.

That isn't the question asked but no wahala

Ok

@tintingz, let me assist you in understanding the OP's perspective,

"I’ve always urged Muslims to be skeptical, even of their own beliefs, in order that they can reach certainty and depart from blindly following their parents religion and culture. But unfortunately there is another culture that influences some Muslims and is blindly followed by many of them due to their inability to detach themselves from their society and time and look at the world from a rational and detached perspective – the culture of Western Civilisation."

The above quote easily explains the theme of the whole write-up, the author is not against being rational, but the fact that some "modern" Muslims who happen to be immersed in western culture, claim rationality based on western civilization...Hence, they happen to be quite incapable of refuting fundamentals of Islam rationally, but dismiss these fundamentals without any logical or rational arguments, they in-turn blindly follow the western civilization or culture.

You brought the example of satan and yawning, you claim it doesn't make sense, because you have read about the cause of yawning scientifically, but you fail to read about the scholarly explanation with regards to the hadith(s) in question. There are explanations to what this narration(s) means, the fact that we mostly yawn when we are tired, drowsy, hungry, or when full (which may result to being drowsy and lazy), has implications especially with regards to our religious activities, for example, when praying, and you keep yawning, you lose concentration, you break your recitation or dhikr, you feel tired, lazy or hungry...Imagine you praying to Allah (SWT) and then yawn with a loud noise?! would it look like you are serious with your prayer?! Even in front of an elder or a person in position of authority, it is not proper. It is said that the narration does not mean yawning is caused by shaitan directly (la), but shaitan loves it when you do....The issue about yawning can be categorize under Islamic etiquette, which definitely, the shaitan would want you to flout!

Islam is a religion of faith and knowledge, you need to know your limits... You would get into trouble if you lack the appropriate knowledge, and if you lack faith, you are doomed!

sino:
@tintingz, let me assist you in understanding the OP's perspective,

"I’ve always urged Muslims to be skeptical, even of their own beliefs, in order that they can reach certainty and depart from blindly following their parents religion and culture. But unfortunately there is another culture that influences some Muslims and is blindly followed by many of them due to their inability to detach themselves from their society and time and look at the world from a rational and detached perspective – the culture of Western Civilisation."

The above quote easily explains the theme of the whole write-up, the author is not against being rational, but the fact that some "modern" Muslims who happen to be immersed in western culture, claim rationality based on western civilization...Hence, they happen to be quite incapable of refuting fundamentals of Islam rationally, but dismiss these fundamentals without any logical or rational arguments, they in-turn blindly follow the western civilization or culture.

I've being reading religious articles for long, this is not my first time, I know how they construct their write ups.

The author was trying not to be bias but he end up being bias and sentimental which I've pointed out

You brought the example of satan and yawning, you claim it doesn't make sense, because you have read about the cause of yawning scientifically, but you fail to read about the scholarly explanation with regards to the hadith(s) in question. There are explanations to what this narration(s) means, the fact that we mostly yawn when we are tired, drowsy, hungry, or when full (which may result to being drowsy and lazy), has implications especially with regards to our religious activities, for example, when praying, and you keep yawning, you lose concentration, you break your recitation or dhikr, you feel tired, lazy or hungry...Imagine you praying to Allah (SWT) and then yawn with a loud noise?! would it look like you are serious with your prayer?! Even in front of an elder or a person in position of authority, it is not proper. It is said that the narration does not mean yawning is caused by shaitan directly (la), but shaitan loves it when you do....The issue about yawning can be categorize under Islamic etiquette, which definitely, the shaitan would want you to flout!

Islam is a religion of faith and knowledge, you need to know your limits... You would get into trouble if you lack the appropriate knowledge, and if you lack faith, you are doomed!

- Can someone control the urge NOT to yawn?

- Can humans do without yawing?

- Why did Allah design yawning to we humans if Allah like/prefer us(humans) sneezing?

Since yawning is from Satan, is it bad to yawn, yes or no?

Sino,

You said, Yawning in front of an elder or someone in position of authority is not proper? Abeg who gave that law?

tintingz:
Sino,

You said, Yawning in front of an elder or someone in position of authority is not proper? Abeg who gave that law?

I think you should understand this by now. Yes, it is not proper. Matter of fact, some people may be upset if you do that in front of them.

The hadith goes further to say to resist it. Which means, it is not yawning itself that is improper but manner you do it. Imagine a lecturer is teaching bunch of students for an hour long and they start yawning?. That's a sign of tediousness which means either the subject is boring or they are tired of long lecture. It is not yawning itself but it is matter of adhab. Yawning is NATURAL instinct.

As i said before, it is matter of adhab. It is very common in the West to yawn withut covering their mouth plus they would be noisy "ha ha ha ha" while yawning. Rarely i see them cover their mouth. Now yawn like hahahahahahaha (with sound out) in front of authority....you would look ridiculous.


But in nigeria, our parents including non-muslims taught us to cover our mouth when we yawn. This is further reported in the hadith



Muslim: Book 42: Hadith 7130

“The son of Abu Said al-Khudri reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When one of you yawns, he should keep his mouth shut with the help of his hand, for it is the devil that enters therein.”

.

tingtinz,

It is not Shaytan that makes us Yawn. Aside from scientific reference you posted earlier which i have no problem with, there are other causes of yawning. Either way, the famous hadith you probably relied on need explanation and not to be taken as face value r as a whole. So the meaning of that, it was said that the Shaytaan likes to see a person yawning because it makes him look different and so he laughs at him. It does not mean that the Shaytaan is the one who makes him yawn. And it was said that yawning is attributed to the Shaytaan because yawning comes from fullness of the stomach, which generates laziness, which happens under the influence of the Shaytaan. Al-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Yawning is attributed to the Shaytaan because it promotes whims and desires, because it stems from heaviness of the body, excessive relaxation and fullness of the stomach.


Indeed, the above does portrays reality. Some people look ugly when they yawn without covering their mouth. Imagine yawning like that in front of elderly or authority?. There is a famous saying that "idle hands are devil's workshop" which means yawing may be attributed to laziness as well. I have no problems with the hadith at all.


Yawning with a wide open mouth is offending, and this is common knowledge!!!!



Al-Manaawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: It is attributed to him (shaytan) because he is the one who calls for giving the self its share of desires. What is meant here is to warn against the things that lead to that, which is eating too much and eating one's fill, which makes the body feel too heavy and tired to do acts of worship.

Empiree:
I think you should understand this by now. Yes, it is not proper. Matter of fact, some people may be upset if you do that in front of them.

How many people told you they are upset when you yawn?
The only reason people get upset is when you don't cover your mouth.

Even though people fake yawning to show a conversation is boring, a sign of mockery and not only yawning, people fake coughing, clearing the through to mock and ofcos you will know when someone fakes it.

The hadith goes further to say to resist it. Which means, it is not yawning itself that is improper but manner you do it. Imagine a lecturer is teaching bunch of students for an hour long and they start yawning?. That's a sign of tediousness which means either the subject is boring or they are tired of long lecture. It is not yawning itself but it is matter of adhab. Yawning is NATURAL instinct.

Sir, you're talking about manners and it is good you said yawning is a natural instinct even animals yawn, now the thing is can something natural be controlled?, NO it can't because it comes from the brain.

When people yawn they don't know or notice until they finish yawning.

When you're tired and bored or feel sleepy the oxygen you take in reduced, this generate yawning to cool the heated Brain. When a student yawn in the class it is normal and no lecturer will scold you for that it is only improper not to cover your mouth.

But the Hadiths said this natural instinct comes from Satan, it is bad to yawn, in fact a sheikh said the Prophet(SA) didn't yawn throughout his life time.

As i said before, it is matter of adhab. It is very common in the West to yawn withut covering their mouth plus they would be noisy "ha ha ha ha" while yawning. Rarely i see them cover their mouth. Now yawn like hahahahahahaha (with sound out) in front of authority....you would look ridiculous.

Someone who do/does this doesnt have manners.

But in nigeria, our parents including non-muslims taught us to cover our mouth when we yawn. This is further reported in the hadith



Muslim: Book 42: Hadith 7130

“The son of Abu Said al-Khudri reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When one of you yawns, he should keep his mouth shut with the help of his hand, for it is the devil that enters therein.”

So when someone yawn and forgot to cover his mouth devil enters it? Must everything relate to devil, Satan? I understand the Hadiths is trying to teach us to have manners but the mouth does not open for nothing, the heat from the brain comes out from the mouth. And why did Hadiths said sneezing is liking by Allah? What if I get catarrh?

We have been taught to cover our mouth when we yawn and not only that, when we cough, belch, clears throat the Hadiths didn't say the former are devil's workshop.

Since I've been with elders and people with high position non have told me yawning itself is improper.

Empiree:
tingtinz,

It is not Shaytan that makes us Yawn. Aside from scientific reference you posted earlier which i have no problem with, there are other causes of yawning. Either way, the famous hadith you probably relied on need explanation and not to be taken as face value r as a whole. So the meaning of that, it was said that the Shaytaan likes to see a person yawning because it makes him look different and so he laughs at him. It does not mean that the Shaytaan is the one who makes him yawn. And it was said that yawning is attributed to the Shaytaan because yawning comes from fullness of the stomach, which generates laziness, which happens under the influence of the Shaytaan. Al-Nawawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: Yawning is attributed to the Shaytaan because it promotes whims and desires, because it stems from heaviness of the body, excessive relaxation and fullness of the stomach.


Indeed, the above does portrays reality. Some people look ugly when they yawn without covering their mouth. Imagine yawning like that in front of elderly or authority?. There is a famous saying that "idle hands are devil's workshop" which means yawing may be attributed to laziness as well. I have no problems with the hadith at all.


Yawning with a wide open mouth is offending, and this is common knowledge!!!!



Al-Manaawi (may Allah have mercy on him) said: It is attributed to him (shaytan) because he is the one who calls for giving the self its share of desires. What is meant here is to warn against the things that lead to that, which is eating too much and eating one's fill, which makes the body feel too heavy and tired to do acts of worship.

We yawn unconsciously, it can't be controlled.

It is only a robot that will say he/she doesn't get tired, bored, hungry, sleepy which generate yawning.

tintingz:


We yawn unconsciously, it can't be controlled.

It is only a robot that will say he/she doesn't get tired, bored, hungry, sleepy which generate yawning.

Abi o. Sometimes, I laugh on how scholars and some people try hard to bend and curry-flavor an outright fabricated hadith just because it is tagged "Sahih". But you will see them rubbishing a sensible hadith just because it is labeled " da'eef".

# Empiree and I have discussed this sneezing issue before.

# To even yawn, sneeze and pass out gas are part of Allah's blessings to relieve us of some burden within the system.

tintingz:
I've being reading religious articles for long, this is not my first time, I know how they construct their write ups.

The author was trying not to be bias but he end up being bias and sentimental which I've pointed out

No you don't, with how you had accused the author wrongly of claiming that rationality, or being modern is only based on western ideology! It is quite apparent you have a prejudiced view with regards to religious (Islamic) articles. Your initial comment on this thread reeks of irrationality and close-mindedness.

tintingz:

- Can someone control the urge NOT to yawn?

To some extent YES!

tintingz:

- Can humans do without yawing?

Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited, if you had made proper research, you would have read about suppressing it, and covering of the mouth.

tintingz:

- Why did Allah design yawning to we humans if Allah like/prefer us(humans) sneezing?

Allah (SWT) created everything, even if He (SWT) does not like some of them, including our behaviours. Allah (SWT) designed that we are prone to sin, but Allah (SWT) does not like sin, but Allah (SWT) is oft-forgiving most merciful!

tintingz:

Since yawning is from Satan, is it bad to yawn, yes or no?

I have explained what is meant by yawning being from shaytan (la), you have failed to see things differently except through your preconceived understanding of the narrations. As I have said above, Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited!

tintingz:
Sino,

You said, Yawning in front of an elder or someone in position of authority is not proper? Abeg who gave that law?

LOL, you are very funny, I didn't say there is a law against yawning in front of elders or an authority, rather I said it is not proper, it would be regarded as a faux pas, especially if it is loud. why not try such in a class with a strict lecturer or if you are working, with your boss, or with your parents or an elderly individual when you are being advised or reprimanded.

I should also point it out to you that "science", still does not know why we yawn, according to what I have read so far, the issue of cooling the brain is not substantiated!

"As recently as 2011, the psychologist Gordon Gallup argued that the yawn is a cooling mechanism for the brain and the body. But the evidence for those theories has been decidedly mixed, and, for now, the physiological function of the yawn remains elusive. As Provine puts it, “Yawning may have the dubious distinction of being the least understood, common human behavior.” "
Source

If you do have convincing evidences, please provide, thanks!

sino:


LOL, you are very funny, I didn't say there is a law against yawning in front of elders or an authority, rather I said it is not proper, it would be regarded as a faux pas, especially if it is loud. why not try such in a class with a strict lecturer or if you are working, with your boss, or with your parents or an elderly individual when you are being advised or reprimanded.

Oga, how many people do you see yawning loud like hungry gorilla?

Everybody knows its not proper to yawn loud and not cover your mouth, coughing and belching is also part of it. My argument is about yawning not the manners behind yawning, is it bad to yawn since it is from Satan?
And why did Allah prefer us sneezing even though I might be allergy or have catarrh.

Allah like us sneezing, Satan like us yawning, how funny it sound.

I should also point it out to you that "science", still does not know why we yawn, according to what I have read so far, the issue of cooling the brain is not substantiated!

"As recently as 2011, the psychologist Gordon Gallup argued that the yawn is a cooling mechanism for the brain and the body. But the evidence for those theories has been decidedly mixed, and, for now, the physiological function of the yawn remains elusive. As Provine puts it, “Yawning may have the dubious distinction of being the least understood, common human behavior.” "
Source

If you do have convincing evidences, please provide, thanks!

Science are progressing, before we don't know why we yawn now there are clues and reasons why we yawn which you just quoted, cooling the brain and body which is healthy and not something from Satan.

And lastly, the psychologist didn't say there are no evidence, the thing is science are still progressing, there are other scientific research concerning yawning.

sino:

No you don't, with how you had accused the author wrongly of claiming that rationality, or being modern is only based on western ideology! It is quite apparent you have a prejudiced view with regards to religious (Islamic) articles. Your initial comment on this thread reeks of irrationality and close-mindedness.

I've problem with all religious articles that's irrational and biased.

To some extent YES!

We yawn unconsciously, how can it be controlled?

Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited, if you had made proper research, you would have read about suppressing it, and covering of the mouth.

But yawning is still from Satan, that's what the Hadiths said.

Allah (SWT) created everything, even if He (SWT) does not like some of them, including our behaviours. Allah (SWT) designed that we are prone to sin, but Allah (SWT) does not like sin, but Allah (SWT) is oft-forgiving most merciful!

But Allah dislike yawning and prefer sneezing? When i yawn i have sinned. Abeg does that even make sense to you?

I have explained what is meant by yawning being from shaytan (la), you have failed to see things differently except through your preconceived understanding of the narrations. As I have said above, Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited!

Then why did yawning comes from Satan or liking by satan, I thought anything that comes from Satan is prohibited.

AlBaqir:


Abi o. Sometimes, I laugh on how scholars and some people try hard to bend and curry-flavor an outright fabricated hadith just because it is tagged "Sahih". But you will see them rubbishing a sensible hadith just because it is labeled " da'eef".

# Empiree and I have discussed this sneezing issue before.

# To even yawn, sneeze and pass out gas are part of Allah's blessings to relieve us of some burden within the system.

I tire ooo.

Something that's healthy is from Satan.

tintingz:
Oga, how many people do you see yawning loud like hungry gorilla?

Everybody knows its not proper to yawn loud and not cover your mouth, coughing and belching is also part of it. My argument is about yawning not the manners behind yawning, is it bad to yawn since it is from Satan?
And why did Allah prefer us sneezing even though I might be allergy or have catarrh.

Allah like us sneezing, Satan like us yawning, how funny it sound.

This above image as no sound, but the yawn looks quite improper in the gathering, plus he looks absolutely ridiculous!

You should know the Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said that he was sent by Allah (SWT) to perfect character or proper manners. That is why narrations about sneezing and yawning are not ridiculous, but there are wisdom behind them, some may not be properly understood by us, but as Muslims, we believe in the divine wisdom and follow the teachings of his Prophet (SAW).

I thought you would have also researched on sneezing... Did science not tell you it is beneficial to your body when you sneeze, even if you do have catarrh?! Well the Prophet (SAW) thought us to praise Allah (SWT) after we sneeze, do you not know Allah (SWT) likes it when we praise Him and show gratitude for His blessings?!

tintingz:

Science are progressing, before we don't know why we yawn now there are clues and reasons why we yawn which you just quoted, cooling the brain and body which is healthy and not something from Satan.

And lastly, the psychologist didn't say there are no evidence, the thing is science are still progressing, there are other scientific research concerning yawning.

Did you read what I quoted at all?! The evidences are decidedly mixed! The reason why another said, the reason behind yawning is least understood! I would say, the theory is just an assumption, until it is properly substantiated, you cannot use it as you were using it on this thread...

You holding on to such assumptions, and bandying it as a fact clearly depicts the tendencies of modernist to display irrationality when it concerns western civilization as described by the author! You said the hadith about yawning is funny (irrational) even with explanations, but you hold as true the theory on yawning by a psychologist with unsubstantiated evidence...

sino:


This above image as no sound, but the yawn looks quite improper in the gathering, plus he looks absolutely ridiculous!

Yawning like that is improper I've stated that earlier and besides no one looked at him because it is non of thier business.

You can see he unconsciously yawn.

You should know the Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said that he was sent by Allah (SWT) to perfect character or proper manners. That is why narrations about sneezing and yawning are not ridiculous, but there are wisdom behind them, some may not be properly understood by us, but as Muslims, we believe in the divine wisdom and follow the teachings of his Prophet (SAW).

"Yawning is from Satan" is ridiculous.

I thought you would have also researched on sneezing... Did science not tell you it is beneficial to your body when you sneeze, even if you do have catarrh?! Well the Prophet (SAW) thought us to praise Allah (SWT) after we sneeze, do you not know Allah (SWT) likes it when we praise Him and show gratitude for His blessings?!

No where I said sneezing is bad, should we be praying to have catarrh since Allah like us sneezing?

Both sneezing and yawning are Allah blessing.

Did you read what I quoted at all?! The evidences are decidedly mixed! The reason why another said, the reason behind yawning is least understood! I would say, the theory is just an assumption, until it is properly substantiated, you cannot use it as you were using it on this thread...

So the Hadith is not an assumption? Who will even take this statement serious "yawning is from Satan".

Like have said science is progressing, there are clues why we yawn it is better than the Hadiths that said it is bad.

You holding on to such assumptions, and bandying it as a fact clearly depicts the tendencies of modernist to display irrationality when it concerns western civilization as described by the author! You said the hadith about yawning is funny (irrational) even with explanations, but you hold as true the theory on yawning by a psychologist with unsubstantiated evidence...

Between "yawning cool the brain and body" and "yawning is from Satan" which one is rational and which one is ridiculous and funny.

A rational person thinks and do research before accepting an ideology.

tintingz:
Yawning like that is improper I've stated that earlier and besides no one looked at him because it is non of thier business.

You can see he unconsciously yawn.

Of course it is improper, no one looked at him?! who snapped the picture?! You cannot make such conclusion that no one is paying attention to him based on a picture! Again nothing suggests that he did that unconsciously, don't make hasty conclusions from incomplete information, it is irrational!

tintingz:

"Yawning is from Satan" is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous to you because you do not have proper understanding of the narration(s).

tintingz:

No where I said sneezing is bad, should we be praying to have catarrh since Allah like us sneezing?

I didn't say you said sneezing is bad, I only asked if you did not do your research with regards to sneezing being beneficial. Thus, when we sneeze, the Prophet (SAW) instructed us to be grateful and praise Allah (SWT), which Allah (SWT) loves! So the statement that Allah (SWT) likes sneezing rather than yawning is understandable. To your question, a Muslim do not pray for sickness or any form of adversities, even though there is reward coming with such problems...

tintingz:

Both sneezing and yawning are Allah blessing.

Perhaps share the Quranic verse or hadith that supports this your assertion.

tintingz:

So the Hadith is not an assumption? Who will even take this statement serious "yawning is from Satan".

A Muslim who believes in the divine message of the Qur'an and the Prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) would take the statement serious once such statement had been authenticated by scholars of repute. So mister, the hadith is not an assumption, only if you can prove that it is a fabricated hadith, then you can say anything you like about it.

tintingz:

Like have said science is progressing, there are clues why we yawn it is better than the Hadiths that said it is bad.

Between "yawning cool the brain and body" and "yawning is from Satan" which one is rational and which one is ridiculous and funny.

A rational person thinks and do research before accepting an ideology.

So far, you have not provided any evidence that can disprove the hadith other than it is irrational, based on an assumption which cannot be substantiated...You clearly did not do any research with respect to the narration in question, you fail to even put into consideration, explanations from scholars stating that the narration does not mean that yawning emanates from shaitan, but rather he likes it, and no where is it stated that yawning is sinful! If you had done due diligence, you would have come across part of the narration that states, "suppress it as much as you can" and "cover your mouth" and [b]"do not make loud noise" [/b]all indicative of proper manners which Islam teaches and encourages. The aspect of the shaitan (la) is largely part of the unseen, but we believe what the Prophet (SAW) tells us about the unseen, it is part of having faith! Have you done your research and thinking about resurrection?! is it rational?! What about having book of deeds, or about two angels by our sides, writing down our actions?!

sino:

Of course it is improper, no one looked at him?! who snapped the picture?! You cannot make such conclusion that no one is paying attention to him based on a picture! Again nothing suggests that he did that unconsciously, don't make hasty conclusions from incomplete information, it is irrational!

The photographer(Christ Steele) snapped the picture which he's doing his job as an illustrator, I'm talking about the people in the picture, no one was paying attention and the only argument is no one is paying attention until you provide the pictures that shows people looking at the man yawning.

And the man yawn unconsciously even looking at the expression on his face, the article(new yorker) you got the picture from said people yawn unconsciously.

It is ridiculous to you because you do not have proper understanding of the narration(s).

OK, but yawning is from Satan, yes or no?

And must it be related to shaitan?

I didn't say you said sneezing is bad, I only asked if you did not do your research with regards to sneezing being beneficial. Thus, when we sneeze, the Prophet (SAW) instructed us to be grateful and praise Allah (SWT), which Allah (SWT) loves! So the statement that Allah (SWT) likes sneezing rather than yawning is understandable. To your question, a Muslim do not pray for sickness or any form of adversities, even though there is reward coming with such problems...

It is understandable to you and your fellows.

Perhaps share the Quranic verse or hadith that supports this your assertion.

Did Quran even mention "yawning is from Satan"?

Allah created sneezing, yawning, coughing, belching all these are beneficial to us.

A Muslim who believes in the divine message of the Qur'an and the Prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) would take the statement serious once such statement had been authenticated by scholars of repute. So mister, the hadith is not an assumption, only if you can prove that it is a fabricated hadith, then you can say anything you like about it.[quote]Show me Quran verse that said yawning is from Satan.


So far, you have not provided any evidence that can disprove the hadith other than it is irrational, based on an assumption which cannot be substantiated...You clearly did not do any research with respect to the narration in question, you fail to even put into consideration, explanations from scholars stating that the narration does not mean that yawning emanates from shaitan, but rather he likes it, and no where is it stated that yawning is sinful! If you had done due diligence, you would have come across part of the narration that states, "suppress it as much as you can" and "cover your mouth" and [b]"do not make loud noise" [/b]all indicative of proper manners which Islam teaches and encourages. The aspect of the shaitan (la) is largely part of the unseen, but we believe what the Prophet (SAW) tells us about the unseen, it is part of having faith! Have you done your research and thinking about resurrection?! is it rational?! What about having book of deeds, or about two angels by our sides, writing down our actions?!

Is there any evidence in the Quran that says yawning is from Satan?

What about the hadith that said when you yawn Satan enter your mouth? Haba!
Something that we do unconsciously many times.

Anything that's related to Satan is bad and sinful, so when we yawn we're sinning and consuming devil.

tintingz:
The photographer(Christ Steele) snapped the picture which he's doing his job as an illustrator, I'm talking about the people in the picture, no one was paying attention and the only argument is no one is paying attention until you provide the pictures that shows people looking at the man yawning.

And the man yawn unconsciously even looking at the expression on his face, the article(new yorker) you got the picture from said people yawn unconsciously.

First and foremost, your statement is; “no one looked at him because it is none of their business”, but I showed you the photographer looked, then all of a sudden, the photographer is just doing his job, as if a photographer is nobody, like he did not look at him, he just snapped the picture just for snapping sake. I need not provide any proof, the picture alone is adequate, at least, the person that took the picture did look at him and it was his business...

Secondly, from the picture, it is highly plausible that there are more people than what was captured. Thirdly, it is a still picture in which the reality can be X,Y,Z…It is highly possible that people around him might pay attention to him before or after the picture was taken. The above are some of the perspectives in which you have failed to put into reason before your comment.

How can you possibly know that the yawn was unconscious?! Anyone can fake a yawn, because you yawn unconsciously doesn’t guarantee that every yawn you see is unconscious. It is plausible that the man in the picture might be faking it…

All what I am trying to point out to you is the fact that being rational/logical requires a lot more than just following your own line of thought and holding it as correct for everyone else.

tintingz:

OK, but yawning is from Satan, yes or no?

And must it be related to shaitan?

It is understandable to you and your fellows.

Yes, according to the narration, yawning is from Shaitan, what this means is therefore explained by Islamic scholars, but you do not care about the explanation, because your thought process is parochial! You focus only on “yawning is from shaitan”, any other thing is irrelevant, and hence it is irrational…I even pointed out the etiquettes inherent in the narrations to help you understand that yawning is not prohibited in Islam, nor is it considered a sin or bad in itself, but you should suppress it as much as you can, cover your mouth and not make a loud noise like a gorilla, because the shaitan (la) who is not physical by the way, likes it, laughs at you especially when you do it so irresponsibly and make loud noises, or an avenue for shaitan to enter inside you!

Except you are not a Muslim, shaitan (la), has a role to play in our lives, and Allah (SWT) in his divine wisdom gave shaitan (la), some powers. If something is attributed to shaitan in Islam, then there is a reason behind this, and in most cases it is spiritual. You should know there is a limit to rationalizing spiritual issues…

tintingz:

Did Quran even mention "yawning is from Satan"?

Allah created sneezing, yawning, coughing, belching all these are beneficial to us.

Is there any evidence in the Quran that says yawning is from Satan?

What about the hadith that said when you yawn Satan enter your mouth? Haba!
Something that we do unconsciously many times.

Anything that's related to Satan is bad and sinful, so when we yawn we're sinning and consuming devil.

You have not provided any proof except stating the obvious; even science is “confused” as to the benefit of yawning, or what really causes it. And you’ve continued to make the same mistake; even shaitan is created by Allah (SWT). As already stated above, the hadith is not saying shaitan created yawning.

As you may have read also in the article I quoted from, yawning is contagious, even writing about yawning can make you yawn, shaitan (la) is said to whisper to the “hearts” of men, especially when carrying out obligatory spiritual responsibilities Allah (SWT) placed on us, what if the hadith was in reference to how shaitan would whisper to us and urge us to yawn so as to look funny and he laughs is head off, or just to make you feel lazy and weak so you do not observe your prayers on time or lose concentration during salah or other religious activities or carry them out with lethargy?! Or you do not believe shaitan does that too i.e whisper?!

“We also yawn when we so much as think about yawning: in one of Provine’s studies, eighty-eight per cent (88%) of people who were instructed to think of yawns yawned themselves within thirty minutes. We yawn when we read about it. “One reason my enthusiasm for studying contagion diminished is because everything causes yawning,” Provine says.” (ibid.)

Lastly, I appreciate the fact that you want to be rational and scrutinize issues accurately to arrive at logical conclusions, but I’m sorry to say, you do have challenges with respect to knowledge in tackling some of these issues, both islamic, and scientific.

sino:

First and foremost, your statement is; “no one looked at him because it is none of their business”, but I showed you the photographer looked, then all of a sudden, the photographer is just doing his job, as if a photographer is nobody, like he did not look at him, he just snapped the picture just for snapping sake. I need not provide any proof, the picture alone is adequate, at least, the person that took the picture did look at him and it was his business...

Secondly, from the picture, it is highly plausible that there are more people than what was captured. Thirdly, it is a still picture in which the reality can be X,Y,Z…It is highly possible that people around him might pay attention to him before or after the picture was taken. The above are some of the perspectives in which you have failed to put into reason before your comment.

How can you possibly know that the yawn was unconscious?! Anyone can fake a yawn, because you yawn unconsciously doesn’t guarantee that every yawn you see is unconscious. It is plausible that the man in the picture might be faking it…

Does yawning take 10min? If the people around him looked at him before or after the picture was snapped one or two person will be caught looking at the man yawning but from the picture and argument the people didn't pay attention to the man only the photographer, The message in the picture is an illustration of the man yawning unconsciously.

Thank God you said anybody can fake a yawn, which I've stated in my previous posts.

So it apparently shows that the man may have fake the yawn and the photographer took the picture as an illustration on a magazine or article.

All what I am trying to point out to you is the fact that being rational/logical requires a lot more than just following your own line of thought and holding it as correct for everyone else.

Satan enters our mouth when we yawn is rational/logical? Please tell me something else.

Its like a popular urban legend for kids, if your candy or biscuits falls on the floor satan has licked it, you're not to pick it and eat it. This is to train kids to be hygienic.

Now compare them.

Yes, according to the narration, yawning is from Shaitan, what this means is therefore explained by Islamic scholars, but you do not care about the explanation, because your thought process is parochial! You focus only on “yawning is from shaitan”, any other thing is irrelevant, and hence it is irrational…I even pointed out the etiquettes inherent in the narrations to help you understand that yawning is not prohibited in Islam, nor is it considered a sin or bad in itself, but you should suppress it as much as you can, cover your mouth and not make a loud noise like a gorilla, because the shaitan (la) who is not physical by the way, likes it, laughs at you especially when you do it so irresponsibly and make loud noises, or an avenue for shaitan to enter inside you!

Can't there be another way of saying yawning out loud and not covering your mouth is improper rather than "yawning is from Satan" something a rational person will call myth.

Satan might be entering your mouth when you yawn not my mouth.

Even shia Muslims find it ridiculous.

Except you are not a Muslim, shaitan (la), has a role to play in our lives, and Allah (SWT) in his divine wisdom gave shaitan (la), some powers. If something is attributed to shaitan in Islam, then there is a reason behind this, and in most cases it is spiritual. You should know there is a limit to rationalizing spiritual issues…

Ok.

You have not provided any proof except stating the obvious; even science is “confused” as to the benefit of yawning, or what really causes it. And you’ve continued to make the same mistake; even shaitan is created by Allah (SWT). As already stated above, the hadith is not saying shaitan created yawning.

At least science gave some clues why and reason we yawn, even if it is not yet concluded.

In Islam there are also different opinions from scholars from different sects. Not everyone believe yawning is from Satan or Satan enters people's mouth.

As you may have read also in the article I quoted from, yawning is contagious, even writing about yawning can make you yawn, shaitan (la) is said to whisper to the “hearts” of men, especially when carrying out obligatory spiritual responsibilities Allah (SWT) placed on us, what if the hadith was in reference to how shaitan would whisper to us and urge us to yawn so as to look funny and he laughs is head off, or just to make you feel lazy and weak so you do not observe your prayers on time or lose concentration during salah or other religious activities or carry them out with lethargy?! Or you do not believe shaitan does that too i.e whisper?!

“We also yawn when we so much as think about yawning: in one of Provine’s studies, eighty-eight per cent (88%) of people who were instructed to think of yawns yawned themselves within thirty minutes. We yawn when we read about it. “One reason my enthusiasm for studying contagion diminished is because everything causes yawning,” Provine says.” (ibid.)

Yawning is contagious YES, even by thinking it. How does that relate to Satan whispering. Haba! This has to with mental. Thinking of urinating even though you don't feel like urinating, within some minutes you feel like urinating.

If Satan is whispering to you fine, as for me I've not hear any whispering of Satan.

Lastly, I appreciate the fact that you want to be rational and scrutinize issues accurately to arrive at logical conclusions, but I’m sorry to say, you do have challenges with respect to knowledge in tackling some of these issues, both islamic, and scientific.

OK, you're the rational person here.

tintingz:
Does yawning take 10min? If the people around him looked at him before or after the picture was snapped one or two person will be caught looking at the man yawning but from the picture and argument the people didn't pay attention to the man only the photographer, The message in the picture is an illustration of the man yawning unconsciously.

I was only trying to correct your initial comment, stating no one looked is false as there is someone who indeed was looking and who eventually took the picture. Whether he is a professional illustrator is irrelevant.

tintingz:

Thank God you said anybody can fake a yawn, which I've stated in my previous posts.

So it apparently shows that the man may have fake the yawn and the photographer took the picture as an illustration on a magazine or article.

Yes it is possible the man in the picture may be faking it.

tintingz:

Satan enters our mouth when we yawn is rational/logical? Please tell me something else.

Its like a popular urban legend for kids, if your candy or biscuits falls on the floor satan has licked it, you're not to pick it and eat it. This is to train kids to be hygienic.

Now compare them.

How do we believe that a statement is rational or logical? Is it based on whims, or based on reason, reality and fact?! Kids know not what is beneficial nor what is harmful. Depending on the cultural or religious background, adults use names and things that are scary to help children navigate their choices or teach, the reality is that such societies believe in satan being the custodian of all forms of evil, including ill health, fact is that when children pick their candy or biscuit from the floor, they get ill, and the reasoning being to protect their children from getting ill, so such statement therefore is rational. The statement gets the needed result, it works!

tintingz:

Can't there be another way of saying yawning out loud and not covering your mouth is improper rather than "yawning is from Satan" something a rational person will call myth.

Satan might be entering your mouth when you yawn not my mouth.

Even shia Muslims find it ridiculous.

That you do not believe in the existence of something doesn't make the thing to be false or irrational. Some do not believe in Allah (SWT) and claim they are rational and those who do are irrational. They also cling on to clues from "science" even when scientist are themselves confused! This is basically what the author is talking about, you cannot refute that "yawning comes from satan" as explained by Islamic scholars, you say it is irrational, because you do not like it, and you are so quick to believe a western ideology (science) with no evidence! Because it conforms to what you think makes sense...

tintingz:

At least science gave some clues why and reason we yawn, even if it is not yet concluded.

The clues you allude to, some of them are also what the Islamic scholars used in explaining the narration. i.e Tiredness, drowsiness, fatigue, laziness, fullness of the stomach etc. It is what everyone can observe when we yawn...The physiological benefit, i.e benefit to our body remains elusive!

tintingz:

In Islam there are also different opinions from scholars from different sects. Not everyone believe yawning is from Satan or Satan enters people's mouth.

You may provide your evidences of difference of opinion of Islamic scholars...let us see what was their reasoning...

tintingz:

Yawning is contagious YES, even by thinking it. How does that relate to Satan whispering. Haba! This has to with mental. Thinking of urinating even though you don't feel like urinating, within some minutes you feel like urinating.

If Satan is whispering to you fine, as for me I've not hear any whispering of Satan.

Have you read that urinating is contagious?! any evidence to back up your statement?! I thought you are a Muslim, did you forget surah An Nas?! Please get a copy of the Qur'an and read yourself.

tintingz:

OK, you're the rational person here.

Be more open-minded!

sino:

I was only trying to correct your initial comment, stating no one looked is false as there is someone who indeed was looking and who eventually took the picture. Whether he is a professional illustrator is irrelevant.

Ok

Yes it is possible the man in the picture may be faking it.

Ok

How do we believe that a statement is rational or logical? Is it based on whims, or based on reason, reality and fact?! Kids know not what is beneficial nor what is harmful. Depending on the cultural or religious background, adults use names and things that are scary to help children navigate their choices or teach, the reality is that such societies believe in satan being the custodian of all forms of evil, including ill health, fact is that when children pick their candy or biscuit from the floor, they get ill, and the reasoning being to protect their children from getting ill, so such statement therefore is rational. The statement gets the needed result, it works!

So you believe the urban legend that Satan lick candy?
Then you should also believe snakes appear to someone that whistle at night or the tooth fairies.

And you got it wrong, the societies knows dirts are fill with germs and bacterial that can cause sickness, abi you no dey watch Detol commercials?, the Satan was just a figure head to scare the kids since anything Satan is bad, evil, monster, hell fire. That's the only way to get kids attention and communicate, now relate this to "yawning is from satan or satan enters person mouth when yawning.

That you do not believe in the existence of something doesn't make the thing to be false or irrational. Some do not believe in Allah (SWT) and claim they are rational and those who do are irrational. They also cling on to clues from "science" even when scientist are themselves confused! This is basically what the author is talking about, you cannot refute that "yawning comes from satan" as explained by Islamic scholars, you say it is irrational, because you do not like it, and you are so quick to believe a western ideology (science) with no evidence! Because it conforms to what you think makes sense...

So science is now western ideology?
Then why do we see Islamic scholars using science (western ideology) to prove Islamic beliefs?

Since anything from satan is bad, There is no evidence that yawning is bad to the body, thats my argument.

I said it is irrational not because I don't like it but because is ridiculous to call something beneficial to the body a devil's workshop and lastly it sounds like Satan lick candy.

The clues you allude to, some of them are also what the Islamic scholars used in explaining the narration. i.e Tiredness, drowsiness, fatigue, laziness, fullness of the stomach etc. It is what everyone can observe when we yawn...The physiological benefit, i.e benefit to our body remains elusive!

You forgot to mention it also caused by heated brain when our breathing is reduced, that's the main reason. When you're tired, hungry, bored, the oxygen that comes in reduce then we're to open our mouth(yawn) to take in more oxygen to cool the brain. now that make more sense than Satan enters our mouth when we feel lazy or laugh at us.

How many Islamic scholars explain that way?

You may provide your evidences of difference of opinion of Islamic scholars...let us see what was their reasoning...

Again, not every Muslim believe "yawning is from Satan"

You said scientists are confused because of their different theories and I said Islamic scholars are also with different opinions causing confusion.

Have you read that urinating is contagious?! any evidence to back up your statement?! I thought you are a Muslim, did you forget surah An Nas?! Please get a copy of the Qur'an and read yourself.


Be more open-minded!

Don't quote me wrong, from what you posted it says people that think of yawning will yawn withing some minutes which you relate to satan whispering and I gave example of urine, thinking of urinating when you don't feel like will bring the feeling of urinating. This is mental.

Another example, when you see someone eating and tongue licking with passion you will also feel the urge to eat.

This is the scope coca-cola and co do for thier commercials, you will see someone drinking soft drinkl with passion.

[img]http://1.bp..com/-kUvGvTg7CHQ/VncDcctwQ1I/AAAAAAAAG2g/pnlcZhTpDjU/s1600/Myanmar_Man_Drinking_Coca_Cola_in_Sunlight_12_2015.jpg[/img]

^^^ Who won't feel the urge to drink cold soft drink after seeing this pic.

Demmzy15:
This issue is very clear and I don't why tintingz likes to prolong and complicate issues. Three brothers explained the same thing to you honestly, but you still want to be rational. At the end of the day, they'll be branded extremists for not following your view.

Bro Demmzy, sorry if this thread goes off topic, I was just trying to show the hypocrisy in this thread.

Three brothers explained yes, but it can only be understood by them and their fellows since they share same ideology, I once believe in the "yawning is from Satan" stuff but I later realize it doesn't make any rational sense.

And lastly, in this thread I will also be branded a western ideologist because I didn't accept their view.

tintingz no dey carry last, hummm.

tintingz:
So what is the difference? Are people not the one practicing Islam and dividing into sects? The modernist Muslims criticize the traditional Muslims, the traditional Muslims criticize modernist Muslims, all sects criticize themselves, it goes round and round.

The writer claim modernist arguments are based on western ideas

The so called western ideology he's talking about is just an ideology(ideas) not a belief a person must hold on to.

You are still making an unfounded claim, maybe you are refuting the thread title not the substance it self.

Yes, in Africa today we give the west credit for our civilization and development. That's my argument.

E.g In news you will see "Nigeria partner with France to build airports". Is that not giving credit?

E.g - My friend Rilwayne001 gave me $100K to invest in a business.

The answer is no, one being your friend doesn't mean he takes credit for your achievements. Wow do you really take time to read before you post? this is the question:

Using common sense to move forward is another thing, this is a way of developing ideas and part of it is partnership and trading when it comes to developing a country. mostly seems like a security arrangement. ... and please does being friends with someone means he takes credit for your achievements? Your examples are not logical, You seem to be only one attributing your development to the West, no sensible and dignified African will credit the West with his civilization or development, they played a role. We were talking about the middle east how does this examples seem to explain how the west is responsibly for their development?

The author claim being rational is base on having western ideas, that a modernist rational argument is of western ideas.

Being rational has to do with thinking and research, that's what the early philosophers did.

Till now you cannot bring yourself to read the content of the thread and you still sit there thinking you are making a proper rebuttal of the article? the author never made such a claim in the bold, it is your fantasy, which simply has prevented you from reading the contents.

Pakistan, iraq are developing countries not developed country. Nigeria is a developing country.

Pakistan having nuclear weapon doesn't make them a developed country yet.

But they are undeveloped right? you clearly have little understanding on what you talking about

@bolded is not my argument, I've stated reasons for calling the article junk.

No you haven't. You have simply showed reasons why you do not want to read the article

No, the write up claim modernist rational arguments are base on western ideas which is false, he believes all modernist thinking and skeptics are result of western ideology.

He even go as far as saying modernist don't question anything western. This falls to the question, is being rational a thing of having western ideas or studying, thinking and doing research?

Before I accept any ideology, I do my research and thinking.

E g Hadiths said yawning is from Satan, it is bad to yawn and many traditional Muslim will accept this without doing no research, from my own rational thought and research it is very normal for all human to yawn because when our brain is heat up we release fluid and blood from the brain downward to our body spine and take in oxygen this process(yawning) is to cool the brain.

E.g The western said Polygamy is illegal but from my research humans have been polygamous right from the time of early humans/primitive people.

Ok

Here is the author refuting your claim, because you failed to read, you keep making off points etc:

I’ve always urged Muslims to be skeptical, even of their own beliefs, in order that they can reach certainty and depart from blindly following their parents religion and culture. But unfortunately there is another culture that influences some Muslims and is blindly followed by many of them due to their inability to detach themselves from their society and time and look at the world from a rational and detached perspective – the culture of Western Civilisation.

Next time read what you want to criticse that is the first sign of being rational.

Empiree:
tintingz no dey carry last, hummm.

Lol..

Brother Veda Veda I salute sir!

vedaxcool:


The answer is no, one being your friend doesn't mean he takes credit for your achievements. Wow do you really take time to read before you post? this is the question:

Using common sense to move forward is another thing, this is a way of developing ideas and part of it is partnership and trading when it comes to developing a country. mostly seems like a security arrangement. ... and please does being friends with someone means he takes credit for your achievements? Your examples are not logical, You seem to be only one attributing your development to the West, no sensible and dignified African will credit the West with his civilization or development, they played a role. We were talking about the middle east how does this examples seem to explain how the west is responsibly for their development?

I'm talking about giving credit to someone you made partner/friendship with when it comes to trading and developing a country.

I've given an example.

Another example: Chinese sign US$12bn contract to build Nigerian Coastal Railway
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/chinese-sign-us12bn-contract-to-build-nigerian-coastal-railway.html

In fact the logo and name of the Chinese company will be placed on the Railway.

^^I hope you now understand sir?

Till now you cannot bring yourself to read the content of the thread and you still sit there thinking you are making a proper rebuttal of the article? the author never made such a claim in the bold, it is your fantasy, which simply has prevented you from reading the contents.

So what does it mean when someone says you don't question anything western that your rationality and argument is/was the result of having western ideas?

But they are undeveloped right? you clearly have little understanding on what you talking about

I didn't say they are underdeveloped. There are developed and developing countries.

Nigeria is a developing country, UK is developed nation, France is a developed country, Pakistan is a developing country, even China is still a developing country.

Check the list of Developing countries:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country

If almighty China is still a developing country what makes Pakistan a developed country?

No you haven't. You have simply showed reasons why you do not want to read the article.

I've read the article three times self.

Here is the author refuting your claim, because you failed to read, you keep making off points etc:

I’ve always urged Muslims to be skeptical, even of their own beliefs, in order that they can reach certainty and depart from blindly following their parents religion and culture. But unfortunately there is another culture that influences some Muslims and is blindly followed by many of them due to their inability to detach themselves from their society and time and look at the world from a rational and detached perspective – the culture of Western Civilisation.

Next time read what you want to criticse that is the first sign of being rational.

@bolded, I've stated in my previous posts that religious articles are written not to look biased and sentimental, that is how they writes. This is not my first time of reading religious articles.

tintingz:


So you believe the urban legend that Satan lick candy?
Then you should also believe snakes appear to someone that whistle at night or the tooth fairies.

And you got it wrong, the societies knows dirts are fill with germs and bacterial that can cause sickness, abi you no dey watch Detol commercials?, the Satan was just a figure head to scare the kids since anything Satan is bad, evil, monster, hell fire. That's the only way to get kids attention and communicate, now relate this to "yawning is from satan or satan enters person mouth when yawning.

You are yet to understand my explanation thus far, I tried to explain the rationale behind the statement, but it seems you are a one way traffic. Even if I can still explain how satan may possibly lick your dropped candy with respect to spiritual connotations, I brought forth the appropriate reasoning which easily qualifies as being rational or say logical. Satan is not an imaginary being, at least if you believe in existence of God…Even if we say satan is imaginary, what is known (or narrated) in terms of his character are evil and vile. From such characteristics of satan already established, we can easily draw a parallel between satan and anything evil, dirty and even ill health. Perhaps I should simply state that the statement is figurative, its intended use is logical, and result oriented. On the contrary, even though the intended purpose of "inventing" a tooth fairy is noble, the tooth fairy doesn’t exist in any context. The parents would sneak into their children's room and place money under the pillow, in exchange for a tooth, it is just to relieve children undergoing pain of losing a tooth. While I cannot say much about whistling at night and snakes, i'll urge you to go to the villages where they have bushes around them, and carryout an experiment, Why not try google, do snakes hear?!

Explaining the Satan’s likeness for yawning Ibn Battal (d. 449AH) writes:

“And similar is the case for all activities ascribed to the Devil and they have two meanings; [it is] either by the way of [Satan’s] pleasure and will or by the way of whispering in the heart and making something adorable.”
If you may note, the above scholar died in 449 AH, we are in 1439 AH, and this shows that these scholars, understood the narrations accordingly.

Source: I would encourage you to read the whole article; it explains another narration about satan urinating in someone’s ears, a narration in which people have criticized without knowledge.

Well I wasn’t really referring to modern societies, regardless; you have acknowledged the reasoning behind the use of satan, which is logical and rational! That you now know there are pathogenic bacteria and viruses on the floor, doesn’t change the fact that satan as described, is a lover of dirt and filth! So when you drop your candy, and the floor is dirty (which is, in most cases), satan is licking it and having a good time with it!

Furthermore, Satan was created to harm you (regardless of his modus operandi), so also are pathogenic organisms. These are parallels to show that it is logical to say satan licks your candy! If you do not believe satan exist, then you should state it clearly, because that is a different ball game entirely!

tintingz:

So science is now western ideology?
Then why do we see Islamic scholars using science (western ideology) to prove Islamic beliefs?

Since anything from satan is bad, There is no evidence that yawning is bad to the body, thats my argument.

I said it is irrational not because I don't like it but because is ridiculous to call something beneficial to the body a devil's workshop and lastly it sounds like Satan lick candy.

The science in parenthesis ought to be in quotations, of course science is universal, mind you, the hadith is not meant to explain the science of yawning. The fact that the proponent of the theory which you presented is Gordon Gallup et. al., who are generally from the West, and the fact that you did not bring any evidence for this theory, after I had challenged you, only buttresses the author’s opinion about “modernist” who hold western ideology as accurate and true and look down on Islamic teachings and traditions as irrational without adequate knowledge, which makes refuting Islamic teaching only based on whims, or what the westerners have said to make sense even if the westerners statement is just an assumption.

Another fallacy is stating that anything from satan is bad. There is a narration where satan taught the use of ayatul kursiy is that bad?! Again read the above explanation with regards to "yawning is from satan". I had said earlier, Yawning in Islam is not prohibited, nor considered a sin, but you should apply proper etiquette accordingly lest you become a tool in the hands of satan, or become a source of ridicule, not only to satan, even your fellow man would laugh at you.

tintingz:

You forgot to mention it also caused by heated brain when our breathing is reduced, that's the main reason. When you're tired, hungry, bored, the oxygen that comes in reduce then we're to open our mouth(yawn) to take in more oxygen to cool the brain. now that make more sense than Satan enters our mouth when we feel lazy or laugh at us.

How many Islamic scholars explain that way?

Just as I said above, the hadith is not a scientific journal that tries to explain the science of yawning, moreover, the idea or theory of brain heating up and cooling by yawning is not substantiated, there is no correlation between breathing rate and brain temperature, also, oxygen intake does not cool the brain, you should say cool air…The triggers of yawning, some of which are fatigue, drowsiness, etc. are what I was talking about in terms of clues. I also used the fact that it is proven that yawning is contagious even by reading about it, to explain the possibility of shaitan to whisper yawning in man, especially when man is to carry out his religious obligations.

tintingz:

Again, not every Muslim believe "yawning is from Satan"

You said scientists are confused because of their different theories and I said Islamic scholars are also with different opinions causing confusion.

I challenged you to bring statements of some of these scholars, Empiree had presented some already, explaining the narration in question, I have also presented another, now bring the scholars that have a divergent view, lets look at their reasoning. And yes some Muslims may not believe this, just have you have done here, but that is not comparable to an Islamic authority.

With regards to scientists confusion, it was also reported in my initial article I quoted, the fact that yawning is the least understood human behavior clearly shows they are confused. Perhaps in the future, they may have a break through, but for now, it is elusive.

tintingz:

Don't quote me wrong, from what you posted it says people that think of yawning will yawn withing some minutes which you relate to satan whispering and I gave example of urine, thinking of urinating when you don't feel like will bring the feeling of urinating. This is mental.

Another example, when you see someone eating and tongue licking with passion you will also feel the urge to eat.

This is the scope coca-cola and co do for thier commercials, you will see someone drinking soft drinkl with passion.

^^^ Who won't feel the urge to drink cold soft drink after seeing this pic.

No matter how you think about urine, or see someone else urinating, you would not want to urinate, except of course, you ought to go urinate yourself. If you do not have empirical evidence that a human behavior is contagious, you cannot just say it is.

Finally, here is a counter to the thermoregulation hypothesis (theory)

"Gallup also accuses us of having ignored evidence for his thermoregulation hypothesis. However, the experimental studies published by his group at the time we published our review reported only changes in brain temperature as triggers of yawns and provided no evidence for a brain cooling effect. After the appearance of our review, Gallup’s group published a new study measuring cortical temperature with implanted thermo coupled probes in rats which showed an increase of∼ 0.2◦C in brain temperature starting about 1min before yawns and stretches, which then starts to decrease again about 20–40s after the onset of yawns and stretches (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010). This is the first study that provides direct evidence for an association between brain temperature and yawning. However, the question remains whether this association is causal, i.e., whether the decrease in brain temperature is produced by the yawns as such. The observation that the temperature decrease after yawning was similar as after stretching suggests that the respiratory component of yawns (inflow of cool air) does not play a significant role. What remains is an increase in blood flow associated with yawns and stretches. However, the increase in cerebral blood flow which is supposed to cool down the brain according to the thermoregulation hypothesis occurs within a few seconds after the yawns. Conversely, the brain continued to warm up with the same speed as before until ∼ 20–40s after the yawns and stretches of the observed rats. Even if we allow for a certain delay in venous blood drain and thermal convection, this time difference appears to be too large. The thermometer seems to have been placed close to the dura and therefore should have rapidly captured a blood flow induced temperature change. Hence, as (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010) discuss in their article, the observed variation in brain temperature associated with yawns is probably mediated by concomitant thermoregulatory brain processes and not caused by the yawns themselves as would have been predicted by the thermoregulation hypothesis (Gallup and Gallup,2008). Moreover (Elo, in press), has recently shown for humans that even small yawn-induced decreases of temperature (Gallup and Gallup, 2010) are physically impossible as long as there is no massive sweating associated with the yawning. Despite the criticisms of Gallup, we also keep insisting that the design of his earlier studies exploring temperature as a trigger of yawns did not include recordings of physiological parameters such as brain temperature and vigilance. It is therefore impossible to exclude confounding effects in these studies."

Ref: A.G. Guggisberg et al. (2011). Why do we yawn? The importance of evidence for specific yawn-induced effects. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 35: 1302–1304

sino:


You are yet to understand my explanation thus far, I tried to explain the rationale behind the statement, but it seems you are a one way traffic. Even if I can still explain how satan may possibly lick your dropped candy with respect to spiritual connotations, I brought forth the appropriate reasoning which easily qualifies as being rational or say logical. Satan is not an imaginary being, at least if you believe in existence of God…Even if we say satan is imaginary, what is known (or narrated) in terms of his character are evil and vile. From such characteristics of satan already established, we can easily draw a parallel between satan and anything evil, dirty and even ill health. Perhaps I should simply state that the statement is figurative, its intended use is logical, and result oriented. On the contrary, even though the intended purpose of "inventing" a tooth fairy is noble, the tooth fairy doesn’t exist in any context. The parents would sneak into their children's room and place money under the pillow, in exchange for a tooth, it is just to relieve children undergoing pain of losing a tooth. While I cannot say much about whistling at night and snakes, i'll urge you to go to the villages where they have bushes around them, and carryout an experiment, Why not try google, do snakes hear?!

- Satan is said to be a spirit being, when does spirit start licking candies?
I can't even imagine Satan licking candies or peeing, sound ridiculous.

- Tooth fairy exist until you show evidence it doesn't.

- I live in the city not village, will whistling in my sitting room attract snakes? And besides snake hearing is poor, they work with vibration.

Explaining the Satan’s likeness for yawning Ibn Battal (d. 449AH) writes:

“And similar is the case for all activities ascribed to the Devil and they have two meanings; [it is] either by the way of [Satan’s] pleasure and will or by the way of whispering in the heart and making something adorable.”
If you may note, the above scholar died in 449 AH, we are in 1439 AH, and this shows that these scholars, understood the narrations accordingly.

Source: I would encourage you to read the whole article; it explains another narration about satan urinating in someone’s ears, a narration in which people have criticized without knowledge.

Well I wasn’t really referring to modern societies, regardless; you have acknowledged the reasoning behind the use of satan, which is logical and rational! That you now know there are pathogenic bacteria and viruses on the floor, doesn’t change the fact that satan as described, is a lover of dirt and filth! So when you drop your candy, and the floor is dirty (which is, in most cases), satan is licking it and having a good time with it!

Furthermore, Satan was created to harm you (regardless of his modus operandi), so also are pathogenic organisms. These are parallels to show that it is logical to say satan licks your candy! If you do not believe satan exist, then you should state it clearly, because that is a different ball game entirely!

I guess taking drugs and medication will scare Satan away.

The science in parenthesis ought to be in quotations, of course science is universal, mind you, the hadith is not meant to explain the science of yawning. The fact that the proponent of the theory which you presented is Gordon Gallup et. al., who are generally from the West, and the fact that you did not bring any evidence for this theory, after I had challenged you, only buttresses the author’s opinion about “modernist” who hold western ideology as accurate and true and look down on Islamic teachings and traditions as irrational without adequate knowledge, which makes refuting Islamic teaching only based on whims, or what the westerners have said to make sense even if the westerners statement is just an assumption.

- Science is not western ideology, western adopted science because it gives them answer to some things at least close to 90%.

- Science on why we yawn is still progressing, we don't know why we yawn in the past but now there are theories why we yawn which has not been concluded.

Another fallacy is stating that anything from satan is bad. There is a narration where satan taught the use of ayatul kursiy is that bad?! Again read the above explanation with regards to "yawning is from satan". I had said earlier, Yawning in Islam is not prohibited, nor considered a sin, but you should apply proper etiquette accordingly lest you become a tool in the hands of satan, or become a source of ridicule, not only to satan, even your fellow man would laugh at you.

Ok.
But when I yawn, Satan does not enter my own mouth.

Just as I said above, the hadith is not a scientific journal that tries to explain the science of yawning, moreover, the idea or theory of brain heating up and cooling by yawning is not substantiated, there is no correlation between breathing rate and brain temperature, also, oxygen intake does not cool the brain, you should say cool air…The triggers of yawning, some of which are fatigue, drowsiness, etc. are what I was talking about in terms of clues. I also used the fact that it is proven that yawning is contagious even by reading about it, to explain the possibility of shaitan to whisper yawning in man, especially when man is to carry out his religious obligations.

Not only yawning is contagious, there are other things that are contagious. I gave an example of someone drinking soft drink with passion, it gives the next person the urge to drink. Does that also imply Satan whispering? How about mental?

I challenged you to bring statements of some of these scholars, Empiree had presented some already, explaining the narration in question, I have also presented another, now bring the scholars that have a divergent view, lets look at their reasoning. And yes some Muslims may not believe this, just have you have done here, but that is not comparable to an Islamic authority.

Yawning is not from Satan, must I accept yawning is from Satan. Na by force?
You don't have to accept yawning cool the brain, you can stick to your yawning is from Satan.

With regards to scientists confusion, it was also reported in my initial article I quoted, the fact that yawning is the least understood human behavior clearly shows they are confused. Perhaps in the future, they may have a break through, but for now, it is elusive.

Scientists are not confused they just have different theories and research that has not yet been concluded.
Or should I say all these Islamic scholars disagreeing with themselves about Islamic beliefs are confused?

No matter how you think about urine, or see someone else urinating, you would not want to urinate, except of course, you ought to go urinate yourself. If you do not have empirical evidence that a human behavior is contagious, you cannot just say it is.

Who said about seeing someone urinating? I said thinking of urinating can bring the feeling of urinating. Go and re-read what I posted.

There are many evidence that human behavior or action is contagious, example seeing someone having sex, eating, drinking, yawning, crying.

Finally, here is a counter to the thermoregulation hypothesis (theory)

"Gallup also accuses us of having ignored evidence for his thermoregulation hypothesis. However, the experimental studies published by his group at the time we published our review reported only changes in brain temperature as triggers of yawns and provided no evidence for a brain cooling effect. After the appearance of our review, Gallup’s group published a new study measuring cortical temperature with implanted thermo coupled probes in rats which showed an increase of∼ 0.2◦C in brain temperature starting about 1min before yawns and stretches, which then starts to decrease again about 20–40s after the onset of yawns and stretches (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010). This is the first study that provides direct evidence for an association between brain temperature and yawning. However, the question remains whether this association is causal, i.e., whether the decrease in brain temperature is produced by the yawns as such. The observation that the temperature decrease after yawning was similar as after stretching suggests that the respiratory component of yawns (inflow of cool air) does not play a significant role. What remains is an increase in blood flow associated with yawns and stretches. However, the increase in cerebral blood flow which is supposed to cool down the brain according to the thermoregulation hypothesis occurs within a few seconds after the yawns. Conversely, the brain continued to warm up with the same speed as before until ∼ 20–40s after the yawns and stretches of the observed rats. Even if we allow for a certain delay in venous blood drain and thermal convection, this time difference appears to be too large. The thermometer seems to have been placed close to the dura and therefore should have rapidly captured a blood flow induced temperature change. Hence, as (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010) discuss in their article, the observed variation in brain temperature associated with yawns is probably mediated by concomitant thermoregulatory brain processes and not caused by the yawns themselves as would have been predicted by the thermoregulation hypothesis (Gallup and Gallup,2008). Moreover (Elo, in press), has recently shown for humans that even small yawn-induced decreases of temperature (Gallup and Gallup, 2010) are physically impossible as long as there is no massive sweating associated with the yawning. Despite the criticisms of Gallup, we also keep insisting that the design of his earlier studies exploring temperature as a trigger of yawns did not include recordings of physiological parameters such as brain temperature and vigilance. It is therefore impossible to exclude confounding effects in these studies."

Ref: A.G. Guggisberg et al. (2011). Why do we yawn? The importance of evidence for specific yawn-induced effects. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 35: 1302–1304

This is a 2014 report, A Gallup theory.

Gallup, now at the State University of New York at Oneonta, was first inspired with the idea during his undergraduate degree, when he realised that yawning might help to chill the brain and stop it overheating. The violent movement of the jaws moves blood flow around the skull, he argued, helping to carry away excess heat, while the deep inhalation brings cool air into the sinus cavities and around the carotid artery leading back into the brain. What’s more, the strenuous movements could also flex the membranes of sinuses – fanning a soft breeze through the cavities that should cause our mucus to evaporate, which should chill the head like air conditioning.

The most obvious test was to see if people are more or less likely to yawn in different temperatures. In normal conditions, Gallup found that around 48% felt the urge to yawn, but when he asked them to hold a cold compress to their foreheads, just 9% succumbed. Breathing through the nose, which could also cool the brain, was even more effective, completely dampening his subjects’ urge to yawn – potentially suggesting a handy trick for anyone facing embarrassment during a tedious conversation.

Perhaps the best evidence comes from two troubled women who approached Gallup soon after he first published his results. Both were looking for relief from pathological yawning attacks, sometimes lasting an hour at a time. “It was extremely debilitating and interferes with any basic activity,” says Gallup. “They’d have to walk away and go to a secluded area – it affected their personal and professional lives.” Intriguingly, one of the women found the only way to stop the yawning attack was to throw herself into cold water. Inspired, Gallup asked them to place a thermometer in their mouths before and after the attacks. Sure enough, he saw a slight rise in temperature just before the yawning bouts, which continued until it dropped back to 37C.

Gallup’s unified theory has been somewhat contentious among yawning researchers. “Gallup’s group has failed to present any convincing experimental evidence to support his theory,” says Hess. In particular, his critics point out he hasn’t made direct measurements of temperature changes in the human brain, though Gallup says he has found the expected fluctuations in yawning rats. Provine is more positive, however – believing that it could be one way in which yawning helps the brain change state, and focus.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140811-warning-this-may-make-you-yawn

The Gallup theory you quoted is not even through with his research, but lately he knows yawning cool/chill the brain, that's the only clues at hand now but still progressing.

tintingz:
- Satan is said to be a spirit being, when does spirit start licking candies?
I can't even imagine Satan licking candies or peeing, sound ridiculous.

Clearly, you did not bother to read the "Source" in my previous post, likewise my efforts to open your mind. I am sure you know what figure of speech means.

tintingz:

- Tooth fairy exist until you show evidence it doesn't.

I have done that already, read my post again!

tintingz:

- I live in the city not village, will whistling in my sitting room attract snakes? And besides snake hearing is poor, they work with vibration.

Do you know the origin of whistling attracts snakes?! Did it start in modern times?! Who were its proponents?! Of course your whistling would not attract snakes into your sitting room, but I am only trying to state a possibility of this being true, especially in an environment prone to snake infestation. Another reasoning behind the statement is the possibility of attracting danger to yourself at night, especially in a very quiet environment...Another case of using figures of speech! i.e snakes=danger!

tintingz:

I guess taking drugs and medication will scare Satan away.

Yes! In fact, not only drugs, being clean and cleaning your environment too also scares satan away! No jokes!

tintingz:

- Science is not western ideology, western adopted science because it gives them answer to some things at least close to 90%.

I do not know where you got your statistics from, anyway, science is not the issue here, as I had pointed out already, science is universal! But when you claim superiority of an assumption, which is still very in dispute as regards the experimental backings, over a religious teaching which is substantiated at least ethically, not to mention the fact that the religious teaching is guaranteed as being authentic, originating from "the authority figure" in the religion, then I will tag it as you following western ideology and not science per se. Your only yardstick for denying the hadith is that it does not make sense, or it is irrational, based on an assumption by a westerner.

tintingz:

- Science on why we yawn is still progressing, we don't know why we yawn in the past but now there are theories why we yawn which has not been concluded.

Actually, we did know why we yawn, we knew the triggers, the pointers, the only issue is to understand the physiological function and mechanism. I do not dispute the possibility of a breakthrough in the future, but as it stands, being a person of science myself, the thermoregulation hypothesis of yawning is still not convincing. I recently read a 2014 and 2015 review on clinical perspective on brain temperature regulation, it may interest you to note that yawning was not even mentioned at all.

tintingz:

Ok.
But when I yawn, Satan does not enter my own mouth.

No qualms!

tintingz:

Not only yawning is contagious, there are other things that are contagious. I gave an example of someone drinking soft drink with passion, it gives the next person the urge to drink. Does that also imply Satan whispering? How about mental?

My point is; not all human behaviours are contagious, please make use of google. Satan's whisper is established, you may believe or not, that is immaterial, but since yawning is contagious just by thinking, seeing another or even reading about it, then it can also come from the whispering of satan. Whether you think it is mental or psychologic, no problem, satan does have access to those faculties of yours.

tintingz:

Yawning is not from Satan, must I accept yawning is from Satan. Na by force?
You don't have to accept yawning cool the brain, you can stick to your yawning is from Satan.

I do not respond to you to force you to believe anything, you may even deny Allah's existence. You came stating an article is junk without any reasons given, then you later tried to justify your claims with a narration. A narration which you clearly did not understand, nor are you willing to be open-minded about. You cannot say you are rational, then runaway from being able to show your rationality...Undermining religious teachings does not convey rationality.

My accepting (believing) the cooling hypothesis (theory) of yawning would not be based on "it makes more sense" it would be based on empirical evidences!

The reasoning behind "yawning is from shaitan" has already been explained thus far, it is not by force to believe, you cannot say it is irrational when you cannot counter the reasoning put forth or based on an unsubstantiated assumption.

tintingz:

Scientists are not confused they just have different theories and research that has not yet been concluded.
Or should I say all these Islamic scholars disagreeing with themselves about Islamic beliefs are confused?

I only quoted an article, and what was stated by some scientists. When it is said that the result of an experiment is decidedly mixed, I do not know what better way to say it than it is confusing! This is not about different theories, the only one theory of cooling the brain is the bone of contention.

tintingz:

Who said about seeing someone urinating? I said thinking of urinating can bring the feeling of urinating. Go and re-read what I posted.

There are many evidence that human behavior or action is contagious, example seeing someone having sex, eating, drinking, yawning, crying.

There are human behaviours that have been proven to be contagious, yawning is one of them, I have not read where urinating is said to be contagious, most of the contagious behaviours are strongly linked with human emotions, behaviours you hardly can control...Drinking coke is not the behaviour that would bring about contagious response, but the emotions expressed by the drinker (like being happy etc.), go and check the video adverts to see what i am talking about. Except you are thirsty, if you look at the picture of a man drinking coke from morning till night, you wouldn't feel the urge to drink.

tintingz:

This is a 2014 report, A Gallup theory.

Gallup, now at the State University of New York at Oneonta, was first inspired with the idea during his undergraduate degree, when he realised that yawning might help to chill the brain and stop it overheating. The violent movement of the jaws moves blood flow around the skull, he argued, helping to carry away excess heat, while the deep inhalation brings cool air into the sinus cavities and around the carotid artery leading back into the brain. What’s more, the strenuous movements could also flex the membranes of sinuses – fanning a soft breeze through the cavities that should cause our mucus to evaporate, which should chill the head like air conditioning.

The most obvious test was to see if people are more or less likely to yawn in different temperatures. In normal conditions, Gallup found that around 48% felt the urge to yawn, but when he asked them to hold a cold compress to their foreheads, just 9% succumbed. Breathing through the nose, which could also cool the brain, was even more effective, completely dampening his subjects’ urge to yawn – potentially suggesting a handy trick for anyone facing embarrassment during a tedious conversation.

Perhaps the best evidence comes from two troubled women who approached Gallup soon after he first published his results. Both were looking for relief from pathological yawning attacks, sometimes lasting an hour at a time. “It was extremely debilitating and interferes with any basic activity,” says Gallup. “They’d have to walk away and go to a secluded area – it affected their personal and professional lives.” Intriguingly, one of the women found the only way to stop the yawning attack was to throw herself into cold water. Inspired, Gallup asked them to place a thermometer in their mouths before and after the attacks. Sure enough, he saw a slight rise in temperature just before the yawning bouts, which continued until it dropped back to 37C.

Gallup’s unified theory has been somewhat contentious among yawning researchers. “Gallup’s group has failed to present any convincing experimental evidence to support his theory,” says Hess. In particular, his critics point out he hasn’t made direct measurements of temperature changes in the human brain, though Gallup says he has found the expected fluctuations in yawning rats. Provine is more positive, however – believing that it could be one way in which yawning helps the brain change state, and focus.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140811-warning-this-may-make-you-yawn

The Gallup theory you quoted is not even through with his research, but lately he knows yawning cool/chill the brain, that's the only clues at hand now but still progressing.

I have even read beyond this, I have read their rebuttal to their critics, but i am not convinced. There are still loop-holes in the said researches conducted on rats. The brain core temperature is said to be higher than the body temperature but correlates well with body temperature, (mind you, the brain regulates the body temperature primarily by sweating and chills), thus the brain temperature is regulated by this difference (i.e between brain and body), as heat generated in the brain is transferred to the blood. The brain temperature is said to be dependent on some variables which includes; brain metabolism, cerebral blood flow, blood temperature and volume (Wang et. al., 2014). The researchers (who are proving yawning causes coolness) have yet to show us what temperature constitute high temperature that needs cooling before yawning is set as a mechanism to cool the brain?! Because there should be consistency with when the rats reach such temperature to always induce yawning. Finally, even how the brain functions is yet to be fully understood, there is also another pointer that the brain has the capacity to redistribute its temperature from one region to another, essentially cooling and heating simultaneously (wang et. al., 2015), one would therefore ask which part of the brain is yawning cooling and what is the mechanism for this cooling?! I have not even mentioned the anatomical structure of the brain in relation to maintaining the brain's temperature, which would also prove the irrelevance of yawning to cool the brain. There are more questions to ask, but I wouldn't want to go further than this.

Ref: Wang H. et. al., (2014). Brain Temperature and its Fundamental Properties: a Review for Clinical Neuroscientis. Front. Neurosci. 8:307. doi:10.3389/fnins.2014.00307

Wang H. et. al., (2015). Thermal Regulation of the Brain-An Anatomical and Physiological Review for Clinical Neuroscientists. Front. Neurosci. 9:528. doi: 10.3389/fnins.2015.00528