raumdeuter:


Community defending dey really protect some people. Half Matics wage he suppose dey give Kante and the other half to Kantes children

When Makelele was commanding midfield alone in this same Chelsea, remove Matic put Fabregas and nothing will change defensively actually output offensively might increase as those Fabregas to Costa wire transfers will increase

BTW is Matic the new Mikel?

This is the Chelsea team that beat Barcelona in 2005, How many workers do we have epping Makelele in midfield
Cech, Paulo Ferreira , Terry, Ricardo Carvalho, Gallas, Makelele, Cole, Lampard, Duff, Kezman, Gudjohnsen

Makelele mostly played with Essien, Ballack and Lampard, three of the hardest working midfielders in history.

Matic was running 13km per game at certain stage. You want give Mikel heartattack?

This all goes back to your defence of Ivanovic. In that case blame the RCM. Matic cannot be coming over from LCM to protect your boy. Those isolation of Ivanovic came because it was too easy to penetrate Fabregas side.

Ibime:


Squawka defensive stats is based on tackling.

A DMs job is to press and make the opposition pass sideways till they run out of options.

He is doing his job perfectly defensively.

We dont want no Lee Cattermole or Granit Xhaka in our midfield making slide tackles.

A central midfielder stays on his feet.

So what is the purpose of comparing with wingbacks whose job is to isolate wingers on the touchline and tackle them. That's an inane comparison.

Makeleke never tackled anybody. His squawka defensive stats would be rubbish.

Central midfielders defensive job is to stay in formation and press as a unit, blocking space for throughballs. He is doing that perfectly.

DM is in your team last 16 matches and you can count the goals conceded on one hand. One hand, not two hands. And you are still carrying 2015 matter on your head, typing God knows what.

Those of us who know what to expect from DM are satisfied. Conte who took the team from 10th place to 8 points clear is satisfied. Do you think you know more than him on midfield play?

Sqwuaka stats is not based on just tackling. Our defence is based in numbers. Cahill and Calamity Luiz are members of that same tight defence. We saw what they looked like in a back 4. We saw what Matic looked like in a back 4. Bigkesh's point infact is that even in this community defence, Matic does not seem to be pulling his weight in relation to his team mates. He doesn't make enough tackles, doesn't make enough interceptions compared to Kante He doesn't create enough chances compared to Kante.

What is he doing?

CONTEDDICTED:

You are the one holding on Matic of 2014

Matic of 2016 has conceded 5 goals in 16 matches and is trusted by our miracle working manager to whom you are addicted. You are the one holding on to 2015. Let go of it.

CONTEDDICTED:


How is a player that misplace passes under my slight pressure making us better defensively than the one who keeps it
Losing balls makes us vulnerable defensively especially when we already have Kante in the team

Cesc is better at ball retention but then I don't see how that makes him a better defensive midfielder than Nemanja.

Last I checked, tackles, interceptions and clearances are the key atrributes of a DM. So if Cesc doesn't score good figures in those areas over Matic, e better say you and the spaniard find a bed to rest in.

Nihilist:


Sqwuaka stats is not based on just tackling. Our defence is based in numbers. Cahill and Calamity Luiz are members of that same tight defence. We saw what they looked like in a back 4. We saw what Matic looked like in a back 4. Bigkesh's point infact is that even in this community defence, Matic does not seem to be pulling his weight in relation to his team mates. He doesn't make enough tackles, doesn't make enough interceptions compared to Kante He doesn't create enough chances compared to Kante.

What is he doing?

Matic is making more passes and assists than Kante. You are comparing two different styles of players.

Your squawka stats is weighted to tackling, even interceptions. Those are no metrics for looking at DMS cos if they were Ramires would be the greatest DM of all time.

Griffon:


Cesc is better at ball retention but then I don't see how that makes him a better defensive midfielder than Nemanja.

Last I checked, tackles, interceptions and clearances are the key atrributes of a DM. So if Cesc doesn't score good figures in those areas over Matic, e better say you and the spaniard find a bed to rest in.

Like Kante can't play DM??

I don't get, we are clearly a better team with Fabregas

Ibime:


Matic of 2016 has conceded 5 goals in 16 matches and is trusted by our miracle working manager to whom you are addicted. You are the one holding on to 2015. Let go of it.

You here people say things like Wanyama and Dembele skinned Kante but somehow Matic is never in the banter cause the idiot was nowhere to be found when Kante needed him

We go dey here together, when Liverpool, Arsenal and City with render Matic useless.. ..Not like Bournemouth and Hull haven't done that already

Ibime:


Makelele mostly played with Essien, Ballack and Lampard, three of the hardest working midfielders in history.

Matic was running 13km per game at certain stage. You want give Mikel heartattack?

This all goes back to your defence of Ivanovic. In that case blame the RCM. Matic cannot be coming over from LCM to protect your boy. Those isolation of Ivanovic came because it was too easy to penetrate Fabregas side.

You see the lineup I gave you vs one of the best attacking side of their time

Na you talk say Lampard dey play AM. So in the lineup I posted basically Makelele was doing all the work by himself cos ninnies like J.Cole, AM like Lampard and attackers like Duff cant help in midfield

Still searching for what Matic is contributing to that midfield o

CONTEDDICTED:
You here people say things like Wanyama and Dembele skinned Kante but somehow Matic is never in the banter cause the idiot was nowhere to be found when Kante needed him

We go dey here together, when Liverpool, Arsenal and City with render Matic useless.. ..Not like Bournemouth and Hull haven't done that already

There will always be Kante doing triple shift and Matic doing the Mikel escort and hiding challenge on the field

raumdeuter:


You see the lineup I gave you vs one of the best attacking side of their time

Na you talk say Lampard dey play AM. So in the lineup I posted basically Makelele was doing all the work by himself cos ninnies like J.Cole, AM like Lampard and attackers like Duff cant help in midfield

Still searching for what Matic is contributing to that midfield o

Joe Cole was playing wing. It was Maka, Lampard and Gudjohnsen in midfield. We conceded twice in that game you will recall. I'm sure you won't know that Lampard was the marathon man of the Premierleague for 10 years. Don't think Maka was playing with no Fabregas type player.

Ibime:


Joe Cole was playing wing. It was Maka, Lampard and Gudjohnsen in midfield. We conceded twice in that game you will recall. I'm sure you won't know that Lampard was the marathon man of the Premierleague for 10 years. Don't think Maka was playing with no Fabregas type player.

Gudjonsen was more of an attacker and a support striker while Lampard according to you was playing as an Attacking midfielder

You concedded 2 goals, 1 a penalty and 1 an inspired take from Dinho. Basically Makelele did the bulk of the job by himself, I believe Kante can do the same, We all know Matic cant.

E for good make Kante go greet him grandfather in Mali for 3-4weeks so Olofinjana can defend his salary

CONTEDDICTED:


You here people say things like Wanyama and Dembele skinned Kante but somehow Matic is never in the banter cause the idiot was nowhere to be found when Kante needed him

We go dey here together, when Liverpool, Arsenal and City with render Matic useless.. ..Not like Bournemouth and Hull haven't done that already

Kesh I will like to know which combo you will rather have face liverpool in our next match; matic - Kante or Kante - fab ?

CONTEDDICTED:

Like Kante can't play DM??

I don't get, we are clearly a better team with Fabregas

Kante can play as a DM cos he is one and so is Matic. Cesc is no DM and you must not be confused into thinking he is one 'cos he once worn the number 4 jersey at Arsenal.

The central midfielders in a 3-4-3 system have similar defensive roles to that of a 4-4-2. They are responsible for pressuring the ball and cutting out easy direct passes up to the forwards.

Also, it is crucial the midfielders win loose balls and tackle well when defending in a 3-4-3 system. CMs would constantly be aware of what is happening behind them, as they may be required to fill a central defensive cover spot at times in this system.

Matic has been doing this job since his days at Benfica. He came back to Chelsea, did perfectly fine on this same role. Next season, he's winning us the league and getting rated as the best DM in the country.

Fast-forward to 2016/17, Cesc Fabregas who knows nothing about DM business now knows a lot about the position than Matic? Please explain.

raumdeuter:


Gudjonsen was more of an attacker and a support striker while Lampard according to you was playing as an Attacking midfielder

You concedded 2 goals, 1 a penalty and 1 an inspired take from Dinho. Basically Makelele did the bulk of the job by himself, I believe Kante can do the same, We all know Matic cant.

E for good make Kante go greet him grandfather in Mali for 3-4weeks so Olofinjana can defend his salary

When Matic was carrying midfield of Fabregas and Oscar to title who was doing the bulk of the work?

BTW, Gudjohnsen and Lampard both play CM and AM.

Ibime:


Matic is making more passes and assists than Kante. You are comparing two different styles of players.

Your squawka stats is weighted to tackling, even interceptions. Those are no matrix for looking at DMS cos if they were Ramires would be the greatest DM of all time.

Matic actually makes less passes and key passes than Kante. I'm out eating now otherwise I would have posted it.

3 of Matic 6 assists are flick ons from corners so it's not like Matic is creative. As you can see in the stats, Matic posts less key passes than Kante, Moses and Alonso.

What is it that Matic really does sef? Give us the stats let us see.

Nihilist:


Matic actually makes less passes and key passes than Kante. I'm out eating now otherwise I would have posted it.

3 of Matic 6 assists are flick ons from corners so it's not like Matic is creative. As you can see in the stats, Matic posts less key passes than Kante, Moses and Alonso.

What is it that Matic really does sef? Give us the stats let us see.

I have posted running stats. Did you miss them?

Matic makes more passes per 90mins than Kante.

Ibime:
When Matic was carrying midfield of Fabregas and Oscar to title who was doing the bulk of the work?

BTW, Gudjohnsen and Lampard both play CM and AM.

Gudjonsen played most of his career as a support striker and very few games in midfield. It was actually in Barcelona that he was pushed more to midfield

You mean fabregas carried Matic. The Fabregas that was throwing record high assists from CM. 19 league assists.

Chelsea scored 73 goals Fabregas scored or assisted 22 of them from Central midfield. Na that person you dey talk say dem carry?

Thats why I am an advocate of show us what you did on the field not hiding behind awards and nomination

Ibime:


I have posted running stats. Did you miss them?

Matic makes more passes per 90mins than Kante.

Running stats.

I didn't realise we are an athletic club now.

raumdeuter:


Gudjonsen played most of his career as a support striker and very few games in midfield. It was actually in Barcelona that he was pushed more to midfield

You mean fabregas carried Matic. The Fabregas that was throwing record high assists from CM. 19 league assists.

Chelsea scored 73 goals Fabregas scored or assisted 22 of them from Central midfield. Na that person you dey talk say dem carry?

Oga understand your own arguement.

By carrying Cesc, Matic provided him the luxury to go forward and rack up those damn 19 assists.

Fabregas couldn't have traveled upfield to rack up those assists and still ran back home to break-up play and bully opposition players off the ball. Could he?

Was he that out-of-this-world?

Nihilist:
Running stats.
I didn't realise we are an athletic club now.

I am amazed o. The same thing Ibime lampooned Ramires and Oscar for

Ibime:
Watching Ramires and Oscar in the same midfield is torture.

2 headless niggas running around with no purpose, no vision and no passing penetration.

E no go better for obesity

CONTEDDICTED:


No talk am outside

At least you Admitted Matic Isn't at forward passes and sideways

matics weak foot is right. He doesn't play left.. His passes to the right should be 50%

Griffon:
Oga understand your own arguement.

By carrying Cesc, Matic provided him the luxury to go forward and rack up those damn 19 assists.

Fabregas couldn't have traveled upfield to rack up those assists and still ran back home to break-up play and bully opposition players off the ball. Could he?

Was he that out-of-this-world?

A lot of those Fabregas passes were due to his own vision and ability to throw a pass from midfield and locate Costa 30yards away. Or because of his solid dead ball delivery. Matic had nothing to do with it

Let Matic stand on his own and show us his performance. The way Kante is in the same position now and no one has any doubt about his contribution

Nihilist:


Running stats.

I didn't realise we are an athletic club now.

Maybe you prefer Mikel who would be blowing gasket and leaving holes all over the pitch.

What do you prefer looking at? Tackling stats that tell you someone makes 1.2 tackles per game vs another who makes 0.9 tackles per game? How una dey reason sef?

That running is the reason why Matic is in position. 90% of DM and defender work is positional, not telling us Makelele makes 0.7 tackles per game while Ramires makes 2.3. That is meaningless.

I told you many years ago and repeatedly since that the only stats I look at for defenders and DMs is running and passing. The bulk of my assessment is visual cognisance of their positioning

The best one on one defender in the world is not the best defender in the world. He may be horrible positionally.

CONTEDDICTED:

3 of those assists came from nodding corner kicks to teammates to score
1 was from a Pedro 'S wonder goal against Tottenham,nothing to do with Matic


Assists doesn't necessary mean you are a good passer

show me a bad passer with 6th assist

raumdeuter:


I am amazed o. The same thing Ibime lampooned Ramires and Oscar for

C'mon now. No need for games. I'm disappointed.

raumdeuter:


Gudjonsen played most of his career as a support striker and very few games in midfield. It was actually in Barcelona that he was pushed more to midfield

You mean fabregas carried Matic. The Fabregas that was throwing record high assists from CM. 19 league assists.

Chelsea scored 73 goals Fabregas scored or assisted 22 of them from Central midfield. Na that person you dey talk say dem carry?

Thats why I am an advocate of show us what you did on the field not hiding behind awards and nomination

Gudjohnsen started playing midfield right from Chelsea.

Chelsea was not playing 4-4-2 so almost all games Gudjohnsen played for JM was in midfield.

Matic did the bulk of the work defensively, that's why he was named EPL DM of the year.

Ibime:


Maybe you prefer Mikel who would be blowing gasket and leaving holes all over the pitch.

What do you prefer looking at? Tackling stats that tell you someone makes 1.2 tackles per game vs another who makes 0.9 tackles per game? How una dey reason sef?

That running is the reason why Matic is in position. 90% of DM and defender work is positional, not telling us Makelele makes 0.7 tackles per game while Ramires makes 2.3. That is meaningless.

I told you many years ago and repeatedly since that the only stats I look at for defenders and DMs is running and passing. The bulk of my assessment is visual cognisance of their positioning

The best one on one defender in the world is not the best defender in the world. He may be horrible positionally.

How the hell does running stat show that Matic is in position? See yarns

The only things that show a players position is the heat map and the touch map. I've never heard anybody say running stats = positional awareness before now.

Matic is the second most dribbled player in the whole squad. Coupled with his relatively low rate of tackles and interceptions, it's difficult to see how he is being particularly useful 'in position'

raumdeuter:


A lot of those Fabregas passes were due to his own vision and ability to throw a pass from midfield and locate Costa 30yards away. Or because of his solid dead ball delivery. Matic had nothing to do with it

Let Matic stand on his own and show us his performance. The way Kante is in the same position now and no one has any doubt about his contribution

Some minutes ago you were hailing Makalele for his defensive prowess whilst dissing Lamps for his inability to help out defensively. Just right now, you're hailing Cesc for his attacking prowess only to be dissing our defensive aegis of 2015, Matic.

How funny?

Ibime asserted that, Matic was carrying Cesc in our title winning season. And I informed you that is true 'cos just like Maka, someone needed to do the dirty job.

I don't see why you still don't get it. Did Cesc at any point post a higher number of tackles, clearances and interceptions over Matic in 2015? If your answer to that is a yes, then I promise you, I'm aint arguing any further.

Griffon:


Some minutes ago you were hailing Makalele for his defensive prowess whilst dissing Lamps for his inability to help out defensively. Just right now, you're hailing Cesc for his attacking prowess only to be dissing our defensive aegis of 2015, Matic.

How funny?

Ibime asserted that, Matic was carrying Cesc in our title winning season. And I informed you that is true 'cos just like Maka, someone needed to do the dirty job.

I don't see why you still don't get it. Did Cesc at any point post a higher number of tackles, clearances and interceptions over Matic in 2015? If your answer to that is a yes, then I promise you, I'm aint arguing any further.

The reason why we are questioning Matic now is because he is posting nowhere near thenough numbers he posted in 14/15

He has been steadily declining, slowly but surely. That's why when Conte has to make a change in midfield Matic is the disposable one.

Matic is not in the team because Conte trusts him. He's in the team because Conte trusts Fabregas less. Conte won't be chasing Naingollan upandan like a spurned lover if Matic was his first choice.

Nateevs used to say something- what we need is a blend of both Fab and Matic. That's the most balanced explanation I've heard in this issue.

Nihilist:


How the hell does running stat show that Matic is in position? See yarns

The only things that show a players position is the heat map and the touch map. I've never heard anybody say running stats = positional awareness before now.

Matic is the second most dribbled player in the whole squad. Coupled with his relatively low rate of tackles and interceptions, it's difficult to see how he is being particularly useful 'in position'

Midfielders are the most dribbled players in any team so telling us he is one of the two most dribbled players means nothing. He is one of only two midfielders!

Running stats was only to counter Bigkesh assertion of him strolling. In Matic case I know that's how he positions himself from visual observation.

That aside, we have to be more intelligent on the meaning behind stats. There are pertinent stats and there are stats meant for the dustbin. Tackling, Interceptions, Dribbling is meant for the dustbin because there is no high volume and you don't know how they record the stats.

For example, a whole team between all 11 players might record only ten tackles in a game yet the opposition lost the ball 30 times. If you are running at me and I put my body between you and the ball and rob you of it, do you know they don't count that as a tackle?

So tackling stats etc only tells you about a players style of play, not the efficiency of his play. While players like Kante, Ramires may go to ground to tackle you because they lack size, someone like Matic or Mikel will just step across your body and block you from the ball. The outcome is the same but tackle wont be recorded for Matic or Mikel.

So we have to be intelligent about our use of stats. Personally the only stats I consider are goals, assists, kms per game and passing stats. Let us not bring dustbin stats into the arena of intelligent discussion.

As another example, you will see a winger dribbling all game, yet when you check the stats you will see only 3 dribbles recorded. Tell me, what are they recording, do you really know?

I personally watch Messi dribbling 20-30 times per game, yet Opta will be telling me he only completes 3 dribbles per game. Tell me in all sincerity why I should bring dribbling stat into a debate as a metric for comparison?

Ibime:


Midfielders are the most dribbled players in any team so telling us he is one of the two most dribbled players means nothing. He is one of only two midfielders!

Running stats was only to counter Bigkesh assertion of him strolling. In Matic case I know that's how he positions himself from visual observation.

That aside, we have to be more intelligent on the meaning behind stats. There are pertinent stats and there are stats meant for the dustbin. Tackling, Interceptions, Dribbling is meant for the dustbin because there is no high volume and you don't know how they record the stats.

For example, a whole team between all 11 players might record only ten tackles in a game yet the opposition lost the ball 30 times. If you are running at me and I put my body between you and the ball and rob you of it, do you know they don't count that as a tackle?

So tackling stats etc only tells you about a players style of play, not the efficiency of his play. While players like Kante, Ramires may go to ground to tackle you because they lack size, someone like Matic or Mikel will just step across your body and block you from the ball. The outcome is the same but tackle wont be recorded for Matic or Mikel.

So we have to be intelligent about our use of stats. Personally the only stats I consider are goals, assists, kms per game and passing stats. Let us not bring dustbin stats into the arena of intelligent discussion.

As another example, you will see a winger dribbling all game, yet when you check the stats you will see only 3 dribbles recorded. Tell me, what are they recording, do you really know?

I personally watch Messi dribbling 20-30 times per game, yet Opta will be telling me he only completes 3 dribbles per game. Tell me in all sincerity why I should bring dribbling stat into a debate as a metric for comparison?

So it's just coincidence that Matic posted higher tackling, clearance and interceptions stats in 2014/15 which was his best season ever in EPL than he is doing now?

Nihilist:


So it's just coincidence that Matic posted higher tackling, clearance and interceptions stats in 2014/15 which was his best season ever in EPL than he is doing now?

His stat in 15/16 is close to 14/15 but his 16/17 stats are way behind. Would we say he was better in 15/16 than this season? Like I said, these are dustbin stats. I pay them no mind. Why should he tackle you this season and risk a card when he can easily guide you into the path of Cahill, Kante or Alonso to rob you of the ball?

I hope you know that small men tackle more. Everytime a big man goes in for tackle, he cops a card eg Wanyama collects many cards mostly because of his size. A big man will just step across your body and lever you off the ball.