...

DMerciful:
12V, 100AH is $600 on aliexpress but i want to see if i can negotiate it to <$500 . Lithium iron phosphate last about 2000cycles at 80% DOD unlike lead acid that will do max 300 cycles at 80% DOD. In reality, you get more backup time for 100AH LiFeO4 than 200AH lead acid cos you can do 80% DOD on lithium while you're limited to 30%-50% on lead acid if you want it to last appreciablly. Besides LiFeO4 is 1/7 the weight of lead acid so its mobile....take it to where there's power and charge . If you're doing 40% DOD on LiFeO4...we are talking of over 5000cycles(13yrs)
LiFeO4 ti take over
Note: lithium iron phosphate(LiFeO4) last longer than lithium polymer which inturn last longer than lithium alone(3 or more different types of lithium)

can the LiFePO4 batteries be used in areas where ambient temperatures can get as high as 44oC? also would the normal Indian inverters be able to effectively charge these batteries? what are the drawbacks of this type of batteries?

Upper temp range is upto 60°C but its better to run at room temperature of 25-28°C. The ones with BMS(battery management system) are adapted to be used in inverters as the required charging voltage is 14.4v consistent with what is obtainable in inverter. Normal Indian inverter would charge some of the Chinese models including the one I'm expecting. Draw back is high initial cost. Also max continuous current draw is limited to about 80A per battery however u can parallel to get more. But the advantage over lead acid is much.

eddyline:


can the LiFePO4 batteries be used in areas where ambient temperatures can get as high as 44oC? also would the normal Indian inverters be able to effectively charge these batteries? what are the drawbacks of this type of batteries?

Your test model is not designed to last hence frequent battery replacement. If you had bought 2*200AH one time and paralled it so that the stress on individual battery is low, it would have lasted far more than the single battery being bought yr after yr. I recommend Lithium Iron Phosphate battery(LiFeO4), they are the latest ultimate offgrid storage batteries with thousands of cycles with d capacity to do 7-10yrs. Also we have the nickel iron batteries that can do 40yrs! Whatsapp me on 08035415969

juliustip:
Thanks for all the suggestions.
To be more detailed;

Solar Panels: 230w *4
Inverter: 2kva
Battery: 200AH
CC: 20A 12v/24v (Model: CM20D)

Loads: Within 700~1000w daily

Duration on off-grid: 3years
Battery Change: Thrice (once every year)

This was installed to test the efficiency of the system, before moving to a bigger version.
For a bigger version, batteries price could be going upto 1.5m yearly.
I see people saying they've been using their batteries for 2 years.
That made me come to conclusion, something is wrong and needs a fix.

My initial plan on upgrade when dollar was ok was to go for Telsa Powerwall (Tesla stats 10years warranty)
But seem that isn't an option at the moment.


I will appreciate any help that can specify what I need to change in this setup.

juliustip:
Thanks for all the suggestions.
To be more detailed;

Solar Panels: 230w *4
Inverter: 2kva
Battery: 200AH
CC: 20A 12v/24v (Model: CM20D)

Loads: Within 700~1000w daily

Duration on off-grid: 3years
Battery Change: Thrice (once every year)

This was installed to test the efficiency of the system, before moving to a bigger version.
For a bigger version, batteries price could be going upto 1.5m yearly.
I see people saying they've been using their batteries for 2 years.
That made me come to conclusion, something is wrong and needs a fix.

My initial plan on upgrade when dollar was ok was to go for Telsa Powerwall (Tesla stats 10years warranty)
But seem that isn't an option at the moment.


I will appreciate any help that can specify what I need to change in this setup.

your panels are way too small for an off grid system, your load is too much. Your
Charge controller must be changed. In fact you are off grid on batteries. I have seen an off grid system running for 2 years without a battery change. Please upgrade your panels and charge controller. It will be nearly impossible for you to consume only 700-1000w daily. Are you aware only one 56' ceiling fan will consume over 700w in 12 hrs

DMerciful:
Upper temp range is upto 60°C but its better to run at room temperature of 25-28°C. The ones with BMS(battery management system) are adapted to be used in inverters as the required charging voltage is 14.4v consistent with what is obtainable in inverter. Normal Indian inverter would charge some of the Chinese models including the one I'm expecting. Draw back is high initial cost. Also max continuous current draw is limited to about 80A per battery however u can parallel to get more. But the advantage over lead acid is much.

thanks. I guess I'll start saving for one then.

richmon74:


I have used that inverter you are talking about in many applications and they work just great. PRAG 2.5kva isn't going to be a solution either. The only thing you'll gain is the extra power that's all. PRAG inverters are rated at 1.25 power factor meaning 2.5kva is 2kw and that's a lot of power for a home.

Meanwhile we still resale all PRAG products at discounted prices so if you still make up your mind to buy one you are free to contact us.

Our contact still remains:

Phone/WhatsApp: 08023033135, 08182218868
contact@pbasesolar.com

Pls this PRAG 2.5kva what's the Surge capacity?

if a fridge starting power is 900w, will it be safe to use this inverter on it?

harveyspec:


Pls this PRAG 2.5kva what's the Surge capacity?

if a fridge starting power is 900w, will it be safe to use this inverter on it?

Yes .. Prag 2.5kva (1800w) (×3 surge capacity) is cool but ain't in stock for nw.. 2kva is currently #109600 BT can offer u @ #102k. Thanks

Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

richmon74:
Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

Great to have you back. Really missed your practical and knowledgeable contributions

richmon74:
Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

Gud to have u back.

Good to have you back...exciting days ahead!

richmon74:
Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

richmon,

welcome back from the cold.
no doubt 2017 is shaping up to be a very exciting year after all.

idsolar:


just a thought of mine. i think you should let d house know your load, solar charge and battery capacity to enable u get proper advise. from experience, sometimes if any of d listed is not adequate, it may lead to frequent cycling/rundowns which is not good for any battery especially as u are offgrid

+1 mistake most people make. Fail to size their load and consumption and then working their way up. The cost economy of going green makes no sense if u keep changing batteries like recharge cards. Batteries the achilles hill of offgrid solar. It has to be pampered otherwise u lose the green advantage. How do you prolong your battery.

Know your battery. Understanding of what battery you have the type and specification is very important in how long it will serve u. AGM, Flooded and Gel all have their own peculiarities from charge and discharge voltage and current. What applies for one don't for the other.

Keep charge and discharge within recommended parameters. If you discharge your 200Ah C20 battery at c10 then it's nolonger a 200AH battery it's has effectively become a 180 or even 150AH battery with a different depth of discharge etc.

never discharge below 50% this is a golden rule for all lead acid batteries.. how do u know if your battery is below 50% DOD. Well you spend some money on systems that can give u an idea of battery state. From hydrometer in case of Flooded batteries to multimeter for SMF batteries to give u voltage readings (ensuring rest voltage don't go below 12.1v) but if u really want to keep an eye on your battery. Get a battery monitor with a current shunt. This can tell you how much has left your battery in terms of watt helping u have an idea of discharge depth vis a vis battery capacity. Some of this items cost less than 10$ on Aliexpress .

Also ensure to properly cycle your battery. Nothing kills lead acid batteries than leaving them in partial state of charge. Ensure to properly charge your battery to full at each day discharge. Never make a habit of using your battery today.. leaving it partially charged and then discharging it against tmr. The rule of thumb to make this easy to achieve is never to take from the battery more than you can give back. Although I have a 220AH battery at 24 volt which is about 2600AH at 50% DOD. I never discharge it more than 1500wh a day (about 29% dod) not because I can't go further but because if I do I might struggle to charge the battery back to full with my 660w panel array. Thankfully since my system went online my battery always gets to float every single day. Battery rest voltage never dropped below 24.7

Avoid parallel connection if I can. Rather it's always better to go on higher voltage than current. Parallel connection no matter how well installed have a knack for not being evenly charged. Even where u follow all the rules of using bus bar with Equal length cables .. as long as batteries even same brand have different internal resistance u will always have issues where one battery gets better charge than others you can mitigate the problem by using a battery balancer but that's just more money. Going for higher voltage is just a win win.

I hope more guys can chip in on how best to preserve ones battery.

For me Lithium based batteries are still too bleeding edge the tech is just not yet as matured as lead acid.. I will maintain a wait and see before I can consider it.

GeorgeD1:
richmon,

welcome back from the cold.
no doubt 2017 is shaping up to be a very exciting year after all.

I completely agree with you. Oga richmon u've stayed away too long. I have everyone here to thank profusely b/cos am enjoying 24hrs electricity with style since I discovered the great house. Thank you all!

richmon74:
Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

Welcome back!...Looking forward to all you got to share from your wealth of knowledge!

efuro:


I completely agree with you. Oga richmon u've stayed away too long. I have everyone here to thank profusely b/cos am enjoying 24hrs electricity with style since I discovered the great house. Thank you all!

Same here, this thread on Nairaland has helped me so much. The amount of knowledge I've gained here is unimaginable. I see myself never being tired of going thru this thread times without number. I enjoy 24 hours light, thanks to you all who gave ur time to impact knowledge in me. May God bless u all.

bigrovar:


Avoid parallel connection if I can. Rather it's always better to go on higher voltage than current. Parallel connection no matter how well installed have a knack for not being evenly charged.

hmmmmmmmmmm Voltage (v) versus Current (amp)



lower voltage => lower heat more amps (mppt, pwm)
higher voltage => higher heat greater amps (mppt)

having battery-cable distance in view. hmmmm true talk!

bigrovar:
The rule of thumb to make this easy to achieve is never to take from the battery more than you can give back. Although I have a 220AH battery at 24 volt which is about 2600AH at 50% DOD. I never discharge it more than 1500wh a day (about 29% dod) not because I can't go further but because if I do I might struggle to charge the battery back to full with my 660w panel array. Thankfully since my system went online my battery always gets to float every single day. Battery rest voltage never dropped below 24.7

.

Bigrovar,

I read your post with some intrests, if may ask-

- which region do you live in?
- what's your average harvest in KWH daily?
- u stay alone or have people at home when you go out for the daily business?

I ask these cos some information here can be misleading

"I have 24/7 power"
"I have not used gen in 20years"
" My TV and appliances run all the time"
Etc etc

I have installed some systems for customers and they are doing pretty well , I own one as well though not that a big one but I am sure and know how RE guys are monitoring and watching their systems like hawks.

When u are home, u can manage all these, when yu are not, women Hmmmm

Except for a few inverters that's got some adjustable DOD settings, most dip more than 50%.

In a bid to paint an awesome image, we tend to make certain comments that make some new guys feel they have issues with their systems.

I always tell any prospective client, we do a load calculation and you know what to expect,(sometimes I over estimate so that when the customer gets more, he would be happier)

Alot of installers don't even do any load check, they dump a system which most probably is well done but undersized and the client would say "this thing no dey work"

We post images of our systems best moments , yes it's a good thing but I need us to be more clear to make new guys know certain factors could get Dem less back up time.

I installed a 1000w solar system with a 3kw,4800wh inverter+battery for my mum and the stuff has been amazing,

The major load in her house is a deep freezer and a TV+decoder and fan. And the system has an uptime of about 90% ,that's because she manages it well enough with timer switch for the freezer.

About lifepo4, its still very young but I ay just give a shot at it when I have some $ to spare

Bigrovar gave an excellent deposition and solutions on what and what not to do if you want battery longevity while you gave a realistic situation and recommended Oversizing. You guys are great but I lean towards your angle more cos u're not d only user of d system to be able to really control DoD. For instance ur battery is 50% already and its still 10pm...what will you do? Shutdown d inverter and put on generator you have abandon for 1 year? Or stay in darkness? Mind you there may be cloudy weather the previous day and no NEPA light for a week. Why buy batteries of so much capacity and u're limited to only 30%? We need a battery revolution, LiFeO4 or Nickel iron are d way forward! Mind you with current cost of deep cycle lead batteries, its already at par with LiFeO4 cost wise. LiFeO4 ti take over

Konnektions146:


Bigrovar,

I read your post with some intrests, if may ask-

- which region do you live in?
- what's your average harvest in KWH daily?
- u stay alone or have people at home when you go out for the daily business?

I ask these cos some information here can be misleading

"I have 24/7 power"
"I have not used gen in 20years"
" My TV and appliances run all the time"
Etc etc

I have installed some systems for customers and they are doing pretty well , I own one as well though not that a big one but I am sure and know how RE guys are monitoring and watching their systems like hawks.

When u are home, u can manage all these, when yu are not, women Hmmmm

Except for a few inverters that's got some adjustable DOD settings, most dip more than 50%.

In a bid to paint an awesome image, we tend to make certain comments that make some new guys feel they have issues with their systems.

I always tell any prospective client, we do a load calculation and you know what to expect,(sometimes I over estimate so that when the customer gets more, he would be happier)

Alot of installers don't even do any load check, they dump a system which most probably is well done but undersized and the client would say "this thing no dey work"

We post images of our systems best moments , yes it's a good thing but I need us to be more clear to make new guys know certain factors could get Dem less back up time.

I installed a 1000w solar system with a 3kw,4800wh inverter+battery for my mum and the stuff has been amazing,

The major load in her house is a deep freezer and a TV+decoder and fan. And the system has an uptime of about 90% ,that's because she manages it well enough with timer switch for the freezer.

About lifepo4, its still very young but I ay just give a shot at it when I have some $ to spare

DMerciful:
Bigrovar gave an excellent deposition and solutions on what and what not to do if you want battery longevity while you gave a realistic situation and recommended Oversizing. You guys are great but I lean towards your angle more cos u're not d only user of d system to be able to really control DoD. For instance ur battery is 50% already and its still 10pm...what will you do? Shutdown d inverter and put on generator you have abandon for 1 year? Or stay in darkness? Mind you there may be cloudy weather the previous day and no NEPA light for a week. Why buy batteries of so much capacity and u're limited to only 30%? We need a battery revolution, LiFeO4 or Nickel iron are d way forward! Mind you with current cost of deep cycle lead batteries, its already at par with LiFeO4 cost wise. LiFeO4 ti take over

Just to add, I stay in abuja north centralish.. I think we have more sun hours and intensity here than down south. My 3 panels probably equivalent to what 4 or 5 panels do in lagos. I need to throw that out there.

bigrovar:


Just to add, I stay in abuja north centralish.. I think we have more sun hours and intensity here than down south. My 3 panels probably equivalent to what 4 or 5 panels do in lagos. I need to throw that out there.

Cool explain, your location is a huge factor, my mum stays in Nsukka , Enugu state and harvests more than I do even when I have about 400w more than she does ,
I live in akwa ibom.

Also your solar panel will always smile cos of the cooling cos they ground mounted ,

I have been studying about solar farms lately and this is one of the major factors especially when they install close to the sea or use as farm/grazing,.

You have really worked on your system and I can only say...Kudos!

DMerciful:
Bigrovar gave an excellent deposition and solutions on what and what not to do if you want battery longevity while you gave a realistic situation and recommended Oversizing. You guys are great but I lean towards your angle more cos u're not d only user of d system to be able to really control DoD. For instance ur battery is 50% already and its still 10pm...what will you do? Shutdown d inverter and put on generator you have abandon for 1 year? Or stay in darkness? Mind you there may be cloudy weather the previous day and no NEPA light for a week. Why buy batteries of so much capacity and u're limited to only 30%? We need a battery revolution, LiFeO4 or Nickel iron are d way forward! Mind you with current cost of deep cycle lead batteries, its already at par with LiFeO4 cost wise. LiFeO4 ti take over

Bros, that moment moment eh, I no dey shut down the system oo, I dey use am , maybe my lady is doing something in preparation for tomoro work and school, battery say make I shut down.....

Dmerciful, I have been reading all your analysis about other batteries and you are gradually pushing me , make I speak to my battery guys In china and see what I get

Speak to them and let us know....I already ordered one...when it comes will definitely do a review.

Konnektions146:


Bros, that moment moment eh, I no dey shut down the system oo, I dey use am , maybe my lady is doing something in preparation for tomoro work and school, battery say make I shut down.....

Dmerciful, I have been reading all your analysis about other batteries and you are gradually pushing me , make I speak to my battery guys In china and see what I get

DMerciful:
Speak to them and let us know....I already ordered one...when it comes will definitely do a review.

We shall await your reviews here on arrival and usage of your............
RE all the way.Kudos to the founding fathers of this great thread.Posterity will always will always be directed here,whenever a Google search on solar stuff is done by the unborne generations......

The EPSOLAR Tracer 2210RN 20A is rated at 260w maximum panels. I do not understand. I need clarity.

goddyior24:
The EPSOLAR Tracer 2210RN 20A is rated at 260w maximum panels. I do not understand. I need clarity.

It's rated so because for a 12V system, 260W/12V ~=20A. If it can work with 24V system then you can use 520W of panel. If you go beyond this max panel ratings your system would still work but you're wasting money because the excess power would not be harnessed.

EPSOLAR Tracer 2210RN 20A mppt controller is rated at 260w maximum solar panels. If you want to go close to the 100v for more efficiency, your panels wattage will be more than the 260w. How can you get 80v still being within the 260w Limit?. I need clarity.

goddyior24:
EPSOLAR Tracer 2210RN 20A mppt controller is rated at 260w maximum solar panels. If you want to go close to the 100v for more efficiency, your panels wattage will be more than the 260w. How can you get 80v still being within the 260w Limit?. I need clarity.

Is that what the manual says?
why not consult properly from dealers before buying items.
most solar enthusiast here will gladly offer you good -free advice without consultancy fee.

mind you 20A mppt cc cannot have upper limit of 260w
please do your sizing properly to enjoy your sweat otherwise you will think "solar thing" dont work .

richmon74:
Hi guys

It's been a while.
Good to see a lot of good stuff happening in this thread.
Obviously this is one thread that spells the future. I have tried to scan through most of the pages though unable to get into details. I've come across some very interesting discussions and some very funny ones as well. Some of them which i feel like responding to but when i look at the date i just think the sleeping do should lie.

The most interesting thing to me is that many have become renewable energy owners through this thread. God bless the founding fathers.
I'll be making my contributions as usual very soon and introducing new products as time goes on.

Over the years we've experimented on various designs and materials and i think its time to share the knowledge with the great people of this thread.

Congratulations to most people who have become solar power installers with the help of this thread.

It's nice to have you back.

The words in bold ... regardless of how far back the post might be, you might have different (yet better) perspective than was presented at the time of discussion. Kindly highlight your observations and if possible, discuss them. Every day is a good day for learning. Thanks!

goddyior24:
The EPSOLAR Tracer 2210RN 20A is rated at 260w maximum panels. I do not understand. I need clarity.

am sure you are referring to the following specs

Specification Summary
System Voltage 12 / 24VDC
Rated Battery Current 20A
Rated Load Current 20A
Max. PV Input Voltage**
Tracer-2210RN 100VDC
Tracer-2215RN 150VDC
Max. PV Input Power
12V System 260W
24V System 520W
*Array voltage should never exceed maximum PV input voltage. Refer to the solar module

if you read further on the manual you also find

"If the solar input current exceeds the maximum rating, the array will be disconnected automatically".

what stops you from configuring your panels on hot sunny day to get the upper limit since it has auto shutdown.

let us have your test results when you can carry it out.