Cire80:
there are many places with Igbo sounding names scattered all over the North. You seem to be very ignorant.

Igbo sounding in spelling, sure. But Igbo sounding in pronunciation, unlikely.Except those in immediate Igbo vincinity of Kogi and Benue states and the reason for this is obvious.

Igboid:


Igbo sounding in spelling, sure. But Igbo sounding in pronunciation, unlikely.Except those in immediate Igbo vincinity of Kogi and Benue states and the reason for this is obvious.

Igbo sounding in spelling of course but you guys don't care if it's the same pronunciations or meaning when any Igbo sounding word is found in Anioma?

Igboid:


By the way, why have you been tactically avoiding this part of my submission.

I didn't see this. What's so special about this? The greetings? Or the Ogele? There are many royal greetings and praise names for Ika kings and that's one of them. I remember when I was little during the Owowor, Ibiewere and Igue festivals, all the songs are music during this festival is for the king. The most popular greetings for Agbor kings is Do Dein; Ni tor nein fe. Is Ogele Igbo ? Please tell me.

Cire80:
I didn't see this. What's so special about this? The greetings? Or the Ogele? There are many royal greetings and praise names for Ika kings and that's one of them. I remember when I was little during the Owowor, Ibiewere and Igue festivals, all the songs are music during this festival is for the king. The most popular greetings for Agbor kings is Do Dein; Ni tor nein fe. Is Ogele Igbo ? Please tell me.

You didn't see the "Oken Eze"?

Cire80:
Igbo sounding in spelling of course but you guys don't care if it's the same pronunciations or meaning when any Igbo sounding word is found in Anioma?

What exactly are you on about?

Igboid:


You didn't see the "Oken Eze"?

alright. Just that? You're funny. That's the greeting I was asking about. So ignored every other which are obviously Edoid and pick out this? What difference does it make if everything you post always point towards Edo and just one or two things either sound Igboid or Igbo. Even your post about the past Agbor kings betrayed your point because among all the names there, you can only find one or two Igbo names and the rest are Edoid and Ika.

Cire80:
alright. Just that? You're funny. That's the greeting I was asking about. So ignored every other which are obviously Edoid and pick out this? What difference does it make if everything you post always point towards Edo and just one or two things either sound Igboid or Igbo. Even your post about the past Agbor kings betrayed your point because among all the names there, you can only find one or two Igbo names and the rest are Edoid and Ika.

The list started with an Igbo name, Ebonka, and then the period of Bini imperialism started, and the names became Bini, but now with Bini vanquished, the names are now Igbo.

If I Post the list of past kings of Ugbodu, you will notice the same pattern.Firstly Yoruba named kings, interrupted by many Edo named kings, and now Igbo named Kings.

Once Bini power and influence waned, everything in Anioma returned/ is returning to its default Igbo settings.
This is the natural way of things.

Igboid:


The list started with an Igbo name, Ebonka, and then the period of Bini imperialism started, and the names became Bini, but now with Bini vanquished, the names are now Igbo.

If I Post the list of past kings of Ugbodu, you will notice the same pattern.Firstly Yoruba named kings, interrupted by many Edo named kings, and now Igbo named Kings.

Once Bini power and influence waned, everything in Anioma returned/ is returning to its default Igbo settings.
This is the natural way of things.

You're not making any point. Ebonka is an indigenous Ika name. I don't know where you got it that Ebonka was the first king of Agbor. Agbor is a very ancient Kingdom. Existing alongside Bini. It's the oldest of all the Kingdoms East of Bini Kingdom. The main founder of Agbor was Agbon, an Edo name and the first dynasties of Agbor Ogele/Igiso dynasties existed in a place called Ominijie, another Edo word. Ebonka was the first king of the 3rd dynasty which is the Dein dynasty after the royal quarters was relocated from Agbor Nta to the present location of Imenobi. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Cire80:
You're not making any point. Ebonka is an indigenous Ika name. I don't know where you got it that Ebonka was the first king of Agbor. Agbor is a very ancient Kingdom. Existing alongside Bini. It's the oldest of all the Kingdoms East of Bini Kingdom. The main founder of Agbor was Agbon, an Edo name and the first dynasties of Agbor Ogele/Igiso dynasties existed in a place called Ominijie, another Edo word. Ebonka was the first king of the 3rd dynasty which is the Dein dynasty after the royal quarters was relocated from Agbor Nta to the present location of Imenobi. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Guy, that slimy character has already made up his mind on what he wants to believe. You have put in a good effort, but when a person's mind is closed what can you do?

Cire80:
I didn't see this. What's so special about this? The greetings? Or the Ogele? There are many royal greetings and praise names for Ika kings and that's one of them. I remember when I was little during the Owowor, Ibiewere and Igue festivals, all the songs are music during this festival is for the king. The most popular greetings for Agbor kings is Do Dein; Ni tor nein fe. Is Ogele Igbo ? Please tell me.

The bolded words all sound igbo and have meanings in the igbo language. I hope ur not implying that they are Edo words becos this is wat am saying about Bini being a corrupted language of igbo due to mixing with Yorubas.


ni tor means u are stock.


obi ya tor nein fe o is igbo not bini.

The Legendary Benin Historian, Joseph Egharevba dismissively presented Agbor as a Benin vassal whose Chief (Obi/Dein) was in constant rebellion against the Benin Kingdom to the extent that the Kingdom had to take steps to bring the situation under control. Egherevba gave account of how Oba Orhogbua authorized one of his generals, Agbon to restore peace at all cost. Agbon then captured Idigi territory which he renamed Agbon later corrupted to “Agbor”. The people of Agbor as a result of this development were compelled to maintain the hard sought loyalty to Benin but this was only short-lived as they again revolted this time during the reign of Oba Ovoramwen. As we were again told, Agbor was to be severely punished but for the 1897 conquest of Benin by the British forces and consequent capture of Oba Ovoramwen.

Agbor people already existed as indigenous Igboid non Edoid people before the invasion of Edo people and renaming of the town.

This position of Egwu is strongly supported by one tradition of Agbor as narrated by Iduwe. According to Iduwe “Our ancestors had long established an autonomous kingdom based on Eze title before our contact with Benin”.

This we already know.
Agbor or Omnijie always had indigenous Igboid people, and centuries after Bini imperialistic influence on the people and land,Agbor remain strongly Igboid till today.
No Edo man can understand Agbor language. Any Igbo man well versed in Owerri dialect will understand Agbor language easily at first hearing yet Edo is a stone throw away from Agbor and Owerri miles away across the great river..

Cire80:
You're not making any point. Ebonka is an indigenous Ika name. I don't know where you got it that Ebonka was the first king of Agbor. Agbor is a very ancient Kingdom. Existing alongside Bini. It's the oldest of all the Kingdoms East of Bini Kingdom. The main founder of Agbor was Agbon, an Edo name and the first dynasties of Agbor Ogele/Igiso dynasties existed in a place called Ominijie, another Edo word. Ebonka was the first king of the 3rd dynasty which is the Dein dynasty after the royal quarters was relocated from Agbor Nta to the present location of Imenobi. I don't understand what point you're trying to make.

Agbor already existed as an Igboid realm before the imperialistic invasion of the land by Edos who renamed the place Agbon.

Good a thing you are now making peace with the fact that Ebonka is an Igbo name as it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

I can see the twisted One Who runs amok in all Igbo related thread in NL like a fly to a corpse , spreading his rancid Igbophobia is already here, as usual cheering the anti Igbo elements.
Lol! Was wondering how long before he arrived. So predictable, this Afonja is.

Ominijie, the name of the old nucleus settlement that grew into Agbor is very clearly a Bini/Ishan name, with a clear Edoid meaning.

Ogele, the title of the first ruler(s) of Ominije is clearly an Edoid title.

These facts tell their own stories.

RedboneSmith:
Ominije, the name of the old nucleus settlement that grew into Agbor is very clearly a Bini/Ishan name, with a clear Edoid meaning.

Ogele, the title of the first ruler(s) of Ominije is clearly an Edoid title.

These facts tell their own stories.

What's the Bini/ Edo meaning of the word "Ominijie" ?

President, the first title of the head of Nigerian state is Clearly an English title, don't you think so?

The word for King in Agbor is Eze, and it has remained so since antiquity till now, that in itself, tells a better story and greater story.

Igboid:


Agbor already existed as an Igboid realm before the imperialistic invasion of the land by Edos who renamed the place Agbon.

Good a thing you are now making peace with the fact that Ebonka is an Igbo name as it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

I find your postulations very amusing. When did Agbor exist as Igboid realm? During the Ogiso/Ogele /Ominijie era? When was Agbor renamed to Agbor? What was the previous name before it was renamed to Agbon?

Now I repeat again, Ebonka is not an Igbo name. It's an Indigenous Ika name.

Cire80:
I find your postulations very amusing. When did Agbor exist as Igboid realm? During the Ogiso/Ogele /Ominijie era? When was Agbor renamed to Agbor? What was the previous name before it was renamed to Agbon?

Now I repeat again, Ebonka is not an Igbo name. It's an Indigenous Ika name.

Lol! Of course it's an indigenous Agbor name, which happens to be Igbo, because the indigenous first inhabitants of Agbor, were Igbo speaking.

What is the Agbor antiquity name for a king? Eze!
Titles means nothing, they could easily be borrowed from neighbouring groups. Nsukka people have Attahs title from Igala, yet the name for a King is Eze!

Igbanke has Enogie title from Bini, yet the name for King is Eze!

Abiriba has Enanchioken title probably from Akwa/Cross influence, yet the name for a king is Eze!


Ominijie is the name, no one knows the meaning, it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

Igboid:


What's the Bini/ Edo meaning of the word "Ominijie" ?

President, the first title of the head of Nigerian state is Clearly an English title, don't you think so?

The word for King in Agbor is Eze, and it has remained so since antiquity till now, that in itself, tells a better story and greater story.

Why are you running back and forth when paid in your own coined? You postulated that the first king of Agbor had an Igbo name hence Agbor must be Igbo. Are you trying to counter your earlier submission now that someone is presenting a superior and more accurate fact to your postulation? How does Nigeria having English title come in here?

Cire80:
Why are you running back and forth when paid in your own coined? You postulated that the first king of Agbor had an Igbo name hence Agbor must be Igbo. Are you trying to counter your earlier submission now that someone is presenting a superior and more accurate fact to your postulation? How does Nigeria having English title come in here?

I posted the list of Kings of Agbor, fromthe Dein era, and showed how the name progressed from a clearly Igbo name Ebonka to Bini borrowed names and back to Igbo names as of today.
You are the confused One here.

Titles can easily be borrowed by a smaller kingdom from a bigger empire. That's the illustration I brought out with the English-Nigeria analogy. And went ahead to accentuate it with Nsukka-Igallas, Igbanke-Bini, Abiriba-Akwa/Cross. These clans all have one thing in common, they border non Igbo speaking powerful neighbors.

Igboid:


What's the Bini/ Edo meaning of the word "Ominijie" ?

The loosest translation I can think of is "a group with no king". The Ogele (who was the head of Agbor when it was still Ominije) was not a king but a gerontocrat. Ominigie remains a common Bini expression till today.

President, the first title of the head of Nigerian state is Clearly an English title, don't you think so?

Nigeria is a British creation. What's your point? You would have had a point if the title of the first ruler of a traditional Nigerian kingdom was clearly an English title. But using a British-created state? Are you making the point that Ominije was a Bini-created society. I am not understanding.

The word for King in Agbor is Eze, and it has remained so since antiquity till now, that in itself, tells a better story and greater story.

A better story than place-name evidence?

RedboneSmith:


A better story than place-name evidence?

Language of a people, especially non colonized ones tells a better story than the name of a place.

Moreover, you are yet to tell the house the meaning of Ominijie in Edoid language.

Igboid:


Lol! Of course it's an indigenous Agbor name, which happens to be Igbo, because the indigenous first inhabitants of Agbor, were Igbo speaking.

What is the Agbor antiquity name for a king? Eze!
Titles means nothing, they could easily be borrowed from neighbouring groups. Nsukka people have Attahs title from Igala, yet the name for a King is Eze!

Igbanke has Enogie title from Bini, yet the name for King is Eze!

Abiriba has Enanchioken title probably from Akwa/Cross influence, yet the name for a king is Eze!


Ominijie is the name, no one knows the meaning, it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

Ogie (Bini) = ojie (Esan). G changes to J.

Ominijie = Ominigie = Without kings/ chiefs/ nobles. (A situation that perfectly defines Ominije/Agbor-Nta before the Dein era.)

I took the pain to snap this from a 1937 Bini dictionary on my laptop.

Igboid:


Lol! Of course it's an indigenous Agbor name, which happens to be Igbo, because the indigenous first inhabitants of Agbor, were Igbo speaking.

What is the Agbor antiquity name for a king? Eze!
Titles means nothing, they could easily be borrowed from neighbouring groups. Nsukka people have Attahs title from Igala, yet the name for a King is Eze!

Igbanke has Enogie title from Bini, yet the name for King is Eze!

Abiriba has Enanchioken title probably from Akwa/Cross influence, yet the name for a king is Eze!


Ominijie is the name, no one knows the meaning, it has no meaning in any Edoid language.

Nsukka seem to be from Igala from their history and some of those people around Abiriba have Akwa/Cross River origin according to their history. I'm sure you will debate this but I'm not ready for any senseless debate today. We left this thread for dead and now you guys are trying to revive it.

Ominijie is a full Edo word and there is a group in Edo culture called ominijies and they play a very important role Kingdom. Till date, their are many Ominijie bearer people in Ika, Bini and Ishan.

RedboneSmith:
Ogie (Bini) = ojie (Esan). G changes to J.

Ominijie = Ominigie = Without kings/ chiefs/ nobles. (A situation that perfectly defines Ominije/Agbor-Nta before the Dein era.)

I took the pain to snap this from a 1937 Bini dictionary on my laptop.

You are a correct guy! Gimme five! Collect one chilled bottle from Mama Orobosa's stall down the road. Tell her all the drinks are on me!

gerg:
Nsukka seem to be from Igala from their history and some of those people around Abiriba have Akwa/Cross River origin according to their history. I'm sure you will debate this but I'm not ready for any senseless debate today. We left this thread for dead and now you guys are trying to revive it.

Ominijie is a full Edo word and there is a group in Edo culture called ominijies and they play a very important role Kingdom. Till date, their are many Ominijie bearer people in Ika, Bini and Ishan.

In the same way that each extended family had an Okaegbee, or leader, each ward community, village, town, dukedom, had an Odionwere, who more often than not was the oldest person in the society. The community, village, town, or dukedom, organized itself into Otu (age) groups and guilds. Each Otu had seven divisions. The idea of seven started when a group of seven, known as the ‘Ominigie,’ was set up during the Ogiso era. Ominigie was a militant or warrior group that went to war for the society. According to myths, the group accompanied their war activities with music and dance and when they were eventually vanquished, it was said that they danced their way to heaven. Another group of seven was promptly set up after their demise and the rhythm of seven has prevailed since.

RedboneSmith:


Ogie (Bini) = ojie (Esan). G changes to J.

Ominijie = Ominigie = Without kings/ chiefs/ nobles. (A situation that perfectly defines Ominije/Agbor-Nta before the Dein era.)

I took the pain to snap this from a 1937 Bini dictionary on my laptop.

Were the Yorubas not given the name by Hausas?
Groups had been named by their neighbors in the past.
Igala communities in Anambra has been called Olumbanasaa by Ndiigbo since antiquity and today they( Igalas) there had come to accept that name, and call themselves the same.
Does it change the fact that they are Igala speaking and not Igbo speaking even though they have an Igbo name today?
This changes nothing, except that it tells us that the Igboid people of Ominijie obviously were republican in nature, and were given the name Ominijie by their Bini neighbors, who found their ways strange, and sought to entrench imperialist and monarchical ways on them, and probably succeeded, hence the foundation of Agbor kingdom.

You only cleared that chapter of history and reinforced the Igboid nature of the ancient people of Ominijie the more.

Thanks.

Igboid:


Language of a people, especially non colonized ones tells a better story than the name of a place.

Moreover, you are yet to tell the house the meaning of Ominijie in Edoid language.

I gave Ominijie's meaning. You decided to overlook it. Anyway, I posted a screenshot from a Bini dictionary in my last comment.

Languages are important when we have early written records. We don't have that. There are no writing from Agbor before the 20th century. No one can speak for sure about the nature of the language spoken there in, say, 10th century.

Place-names however tell a big story. Berlin today is a German city. The place-name however points to a Slavic origin, i.e., Slavs were there before Germans arrived. We would never had known this by just studying the language Berliners speak today, or even the language they spoke 500 years ago.

Igboid:


Were the Yorubas not given the name by Hausas?
Groups had been named by their neighbors in the past.
Igala communities in Anambra has been called Olumbanasaa by Ndiigbo since antiquity and today they( Igalas) there had come to accept that name, and call themselves the same.
Does it change the fact that they are Igala speaking and not Igbo speaking even though they have an Igbo name today?
This changes nothing, except that it tells us that the Igboid people of Ominijie obviously were republican in nature, and were given the name Ominijie by their Bini neighbors, who found their ways strange, and sought to entrench imperialist and monarchical ways on them, and probably succeeded, hence the foundation of Agbor kingdom.

You only cleared that chapter of history and reinforced the Igboid nature of the ancient people of Ominijie the more.

Thanks.

Olumbanasaa is a group name, like Mbammili (Riverine people), not the name of one community. All the communities that make up Olumbanasaa don't have Igbo names. They have Igala names. Yoruba is a group name. Not the name of one community. The communities that make up the Yoruba nation don't have Hausa names.

Ominije was the name of just ONE community, not a collective group name, like Olumbanasa and Yoruba. Your analogies are deceptive.

gerg:
Nsukka seem to be from Igala from their history and some of those people around Abiriba have Akwa/Cross River origin according to their history. I'm sure you will debate this but I'm not ready for any senseless debate today. We left this thread for dead and now you guys are trying to revive it.

Ominijie is a full Edo word and there is a group in Edo culture called ominijies and they play a very important role Kingdom. Till date, their are many Ominijie bearer people in Ika, Bini and Ishan.

On the contrary, Igala invaded Nsukka and left traces of Igala imprints in Nsukka, like Edo invaded Ika and left traces of Edo in Ika, but because the core had always been Igbo, Igbo language survived in both Ika and Nsukka, with minor Edo corruption and Igala corruption for Ika and Nsukka respectively.
Are there Nsukka people today whose ancestors were of Igala stock that invaded Nsukka? Yes, are there Ika people today whose ancestors were of Edo stock that invaded Ika, yes!
But the Truth remain that both regions were Igbo speaking realms prior to those invasions and that's why Igbo language survived in those places while the language of the Igala and Edo invaders died a natural death, with imprints of them left in form of words littering the Igbo dialects spoken in those parts.

Igboid:


Were the Yorubas not given the name by Hausas?
Groups had been named by their neighbors in the past.
Igala communities in Anambra has been called Olumbanasaa by Ndiigbo since antiquity and today they( Igalas) there had come to accept that name, and call themselves the same.
Does it change the fact that they are Igala speaking and not Igbo speaking even though they have an Igbo name today?
This changes nothing, except that it tells us that the Igboid people of Ominijie obviously were republican in nature, and were given the name Ominijie by their Bini neighbors, who found their ways strange, and sought to entrench imperialist and monarchical ways on them, and probably succeeded, hence the foundation of Agbor kingdom.

You only cleared that chapter of history and reinforced the Igboid nature of the ancient people of Ominijie the more.

Thanks.

What do you have to say about the Ominigie group also existing in Edo culture during the Ogiso era?

RedboneSmith:


I gave Ominijie's meaning. You decided to overlook it. Anyway, I posted a screenshot from a Bini dictionary in my last comment.

Languages are important when we have early written records. We don't have that. There are no writing from Agbor before the 20th century. No one can speak for sure about the nature of the language spoken there in, say, 10th century.

Place-names however tell a big story. Berlin today is a German city. The place-name however points to a Slavic origin, i.e., Slavs were there before Germans arrived. We would never had known this by just studying the language Berliners speak today, or even the language they spoke 500 years ago.

We know that Igbo empire never existed.
We know that Igbos nevers invaded Agbor, as no such was recorded in Agbor history.
We know that the nearest Igbo( read SE) community Onitsha is Miles away from Agbor.
We know that Agbor is a stone throw away from Bini
We have oral histories of Agbor invasion by Edos
We know that Bini was an imperialistic empire.

Yet!

Today, Agbor speaks an Igboid language

How do you explain this!