TheGoodJoe:


A player who is not World Class can not do what Mikel did against Spain. Mikel set the whole world talking. Even Bleacherreport did a full article after the game about Mikel. Extravagance is not all the ten role is about. Mikel brings a class of maturity and intelligence you can hardly find in the game. He is a pure genius. If not the faith Big Boss Keshi had in Mikel we would not even have this discussion. And, Yes, Mikel is among the all time greats of the Super Eagles. Why do you think Okocha retired early when he still had so much football in him? He trusted the young Mikel to carry the touch on and the young man delivered.

Icon4s:
Joebie, talking about world class, name a world class player in that Cameroonian team.

Icon4s:


So you think the Cameroonian team will surely improve after this AFCON huh-huh?

Joebie:
NONE!

Icon4s:


I can tell you categorically that the Nigerian team has more quality than that Cameroonian team.

Joebie:
Maybe not..but we have to plan to win. We can't assume they wont improve. I'm only stating a fact about Keshi's team

TheSuperNerd:
Say you just hate Mikel...

A world class player should show that consistency and a high level all the time. Where was Lionel Messi at the 2010 World Cup??

Where was Cristiano Ronaldo at the 2014 World cup??

Oga.... Just one tournament is all you point to..... Show us another please...

Joebie:
We are saying almost the same thing. However this is where we differ. Many other players have not had their chance like Mikel in that role. Mikel has been around for a long time now.. and I can only say he had stand out performances in only a few games of those many matches. There is no stiff competition in the SE right now even in that position, that doesnt make him world class. Ndidi will play the CMF role better, but that is open to debate because he is a new player and that will be proven with time. Even with the scarce competition in the SE I can only pin point a few games where Mikel posted great performances.. My world class players are not like that.. at least in my standard.. I don't know about you. Finidi clearly was. he was rated the best number 7 oftentimes. Yekini did not prove it at the world stage. but definitely was Africa's best at a time, and he showed that consistently. Please let's raise the bar high.. We can have the likes of George Weah in future.. definitely not Mikel

PROVERBZ:
what do you think about Stephen odey of mfm for me he is better than most of all this German and english players with Nigerian roots we are going after

his coach already said his better than messi and christiano Ronaldo

he is one to keep an eye on for possible super eagles call up

Joebie:
Which is why I like Rohr. Many of you if u were coaches you would be like our indigenous coaches who do you planning by boasting.. Rohr is doing is homework. I'm confident in him. He knows very well that we cant take them for granted. i trust him to treat them with caution.
Like our domestic coaches would say, "I've not seen our oponents play, but we will play our own game and beat them" - laughable

Icon4s:


Who is saying we should not plan to win.

And who is saying the Nigerian team too wouldn't have improved by then?

PROVERBZ:
what do you think about Stephen odey of mfm for me he is better than most of all this German and english players with Nigerian roots we are going after

his coach already said his better than messi and christiano Ronaldo

he is one to keep an eye on for possible super eagles call up

Joebie:
you have just done the opposite.. measure them with the same standard.
Just because Okocha failed to impress in a match for example you liken him to Oruma that impressed in just a handful.. perfect analogy

Joebie:
All im saying is we need as much games as possible to tinker the team.
Cameroon is the best team in Africa right now.. accept it.. you said the same when we won AFCON '14.. so respect them until we beat them.
you can't just say we have more quality in our team. Let's take a humble approach..we are building.. but we must organize friendlies..

Icon4s:


Nobody is underrating the Cameroonians.
You are the one underrating Nigeria here.

There is no way any right thinking coach wouldn't have followed all the Cameroon's 2017 AFCON games. If I, as an analyst, can do that talk more of coaches of which that is their primary assignment.

I respect Cameroun but I dnt fear them. Simple.

Icon4s:


Who is saying we dnt need games. And there is no way we can play as many games as Cameroun bc they are in FIFA confederations cup.

Besides, it is not by how many games you play.

forgiveness:

Joebie:
i'm not underrating Nigeria.. we have young team that has potentials and is ahead in the qualifiers.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

Joebie:
of course its not by how many games you play.. but your assumption is that they will not improve.. that's a risky path to take.

Icon4s:


You undermine the quality in our Team.

That is just it.

Icon4s:


I am not saying they will not Improve. There is no way I could have made such a close ended statement.

You are the one assuming they will surely improve, and I told you they MAY not.

Improve or no improve, what matters most is the match day form.

TheSuperNerd:
You are getting the whole analogy thing mixed up.

Oruma impressed in just a handful against who?? Vs Okocha failing to impress against who and on what stage?


But here I gave you messi of 2010 WC and a Ronaldo of 2014 WC... Vs Mikel of 2014 WC

All three players "failed" according to your definition of a world class player..... Coz all had at least one bad tournament individually...

A world class player should show that
consistency and a high level all the time.


You see... When I defined world class many pages ago on this thread, I didn't use "all the time".... I rather used on the biggest stages or levels of the game "almost" super consistently....

So take that.

Joebie:
As a coach, I would assume my opponents will improve.. That's the right mindset to be to be best prepared.

Icon4s:


Definitely, you have to expect them to improve but that does not mean you should lose confidence in your own abilities.

Joebie:
my brother if you want to compare Mikel with playing legends like Messi and Ronaldo, I won't waste my time continuing with this argument. Mikel has never ever been the best in Africa, yes based on facts.. so please .. i'm done because you have taking your sentiments too far. Mind you Mikel is a good player.. and i'm not a hater.. but lets call a spade a spade.

Joebie:
Yes my definition is faulty because its impossible for any player to be at the best all the time.. but going by your own definition Mikel simply does not make the cut as a world class player.

goldfish80:

I disagree with you on Okocha. Okocha was selfish, his resignation was not due to the emergence of Mikel. He basically wanted to protect his future at Bolton wanderers, funny enough he was binned by Bolton when they were done with him.
Have you forgotten how he lied that he lost his way in London enroute an Eagle's training camp? His nonchalant attitude cost us the world cup ticket in 2005 to Angola. It still hurts when I think about it, thankfully Nigerians have moved on.

TheSuperNerd:
Your argument was absurd from the moment you said Mikel cannot dictate a game's tempo accompanied by all else you said.

Who's comparing Mikel with messi? Looll or even Ronaldo? Can messi and Ronaldo play the Mikel roles?? Messi can play AMF or has it in him to play CMF as he ages but can he play DMF?

So why would I be comparing them..?

I was only showing you the absolute flaw in your definition of world class.... Coz going by your definition of "all the time"... Messi and Ronaldo failed and do not merit the world class tags. #SimpleAnalogy

You only point to WC 2014 for Mikel's under-performance. What about his debut at Afcon 2006?

What about his individual brilliance at Afcon 2008? Even though vogts tactics caused us.

What about his mesmerising displays at Afcon 2010?

What about his super midfield performances at Fifa Confederations cup 2013??

What about his awesome showing at Afcon 2013??

What about his Rio 2016 Olympics heroics as our midfield general??


What about his FA cup performances in 2007?? His first FA cup... and all other FA cups he won (he featured heavily as a super regular in the next two FA cups won by chelsea but had no major hand in the fourth he won with the club)

What about his world class performances against the best teams on earth in Barcelona, Bayern munich etc in the UCL seasons of 2010/2011 and even 2012/2013??

What about his first UCL performances in 2007, 2008, where he shone like a million stars in high profile games as a teenager and 20yr old against teams like Valencia at the mestalla??


And in African football, you mention world class without mentioning Mikel?? You need to have your memory refilled with mikel's career moments all over again...

Thank God for the internet...

Joebie:
i dont care about roles or versatility.. please dont mention Mikel's name near any of those players.. you can do that in a thread like this.. granted.. not even in a serious discussion.. don't try it on TV.. in the midst of fellow Nigerians maybe.. Mikel is not even among Nigeria's greatest.

You are purely sentimental. Mikel has never been the best in Africa, and you are talking about world class. How many African players even make it to the world's best 11 yearly? please please please.. let's call a spade exactly what it is

TheSuperNerd:
Enough of this absurd argument mister.

The bolded alone cancels out all your arguments and displays you for what you are... A hater...

Mikel not among Nigeria's greatest of all time? Sir, permit me to say you are a joker.... Loolll