Henry24o:


I hold nothing against you South-Africans, i only hold a grudge when you South-Africans do that to Nigeria.


I was basically the only Nigerian who commiserated with you guys back in 2013, in the other thread. The old guardn Andrew, Mike, Patches, the other South-African in the SAAF (Syndergp) can all confirm. Bangui is not one of those moments i hold a grudge. That said, your Bangui story has been pure hogwash. I'm been completely honest.

My position hasn't changed.

You labour under the miscomprehension that I called Augubugbug out because of his animus towards SA. Couldn't care less about that; his inferiority complex is his own cross to bear. They say dogs bark while the caravan moves on.
That to which I object is fact-free BS. You're welcome to believe whatever you want about Bangui. But just know that when it's warranted, I'll issue an "Augugubug Alert".

By the way, the closure of Abuja Airport has come to pass. Will heads roll for such incompetence and dereliction?

Look what I found.

N35. These UAE guys are pushing thier defence industry.

Henry24o:
Look what I found.

N35. These UAE guys are pushing thier defence industry.

Yes they bought the licence to manufacture from Denel. Posted the news item when the first examples came off the NIMR production line. All the gucci gear in the world means nothing if proper doctrine is not developed and one just hopes for victory Insh'Allah.

frumentius:


of Abuja Airport has come to pass. Will heads roll for such incompetence and dereliction?

I think the photo above is one the problems plaguing your Defence industry, the sale of IP rights. There is nothing wrong with selling IP rights, however it becomes a problem when you do it the way you South-Africans do it. You've basically lost the MRAP market, and you're not selling LAVs. The Israelis are leading in this area in Africa.

I want to know your view of the general South-African industry market, why in your opinion are you not making sales enough in Africa in recent times?

Sales generally have fallen, what's the cause of this, in your opinion. The US draw down in Iraq isn't included. They had virtually replaced thier South-African MRAPs for theirs. The Europeans, well, we're going for the Dingo and Bushmaster, and American. Only the Spanish and Sweden stayed. I might also be wrong, however let's see your opinion.

frumentius:


. All the gucci gear in the world means nothing if proper doctrine is not developed and one just hopes for victory Insh'Allah.

frumentius:


You labour under the miscomprehension that I called Augubugbug out because of his animus towards SA. Couldn't care less about that; his inferiority complex is his own cross to bear. They say dogs bark while the caravan moves on.
That to which I object is fact-free BS. You're welcome to believe whatever you want about Bangui. But just know that when it's warranted, I'll issue an "Augugubug Alert".

By the way, the closure of Abuja Airport has come to pass. Will heads roll for such incompetence and dereliction?

I couldn't care less about Abuja, don't live there, don't give a flying F. Neither do I give a s*** about the politicians or who they appoint. Funny, train fare from Kaduna to Abuja has been increased.

I do have to say, the last time I was there, I didn't see any problems with the runway. Anyhoo , that's barely my problem.


On Augagust, I had no problems with him. Many South-Africans, not just in this forum, but foreign forums are guilty of the things you accuse Agaugust of.

Your Bangui stories don't cut it for me.

When it's warranted, I'll issue a Craigb, Mzilakazi or sometimes Patches alert for you.

frumentius:


Yes they bought the licence to manufacture from Denel. Posted the news item when the first examples came off the NIMR production line. All the gucci gear in the world means nothing if proper doctrine is not developed and one just hopes for victory Insh'Allah.

They bought the IP?

I'm referring to thier Defence industry. They also got a very good naval shipbuilding industry in the UAE, and Offcourse, there is the Block 60, which they also share IP rights with Lockheed Martin.

frumentius:


Yes they bought the licence to manufacture from Denel. Posted the news item when the first examples came off the NIMR production line. All the gucci gear in the world means nothing if proper doctrine is not developed and one just hopes for victory Insh'Allah.

Is it an RG-35?

Henry24o:


Dude, I have provided countless evidence in the past which prove your Bangui debacle was a disaster. I'm not looking to start an argument either.

I only stated the facts as they are, backed by reputable agencies, the international media, politics on the ground and the presence of heavy French and FOMAC troops.

Actually i provided counter evidence that not one of your so called sources were on the ground, years ago .....were as if you read the book you would know that Mr Heitman uses actual reputable sources and being a internationally recognized military analist im certain he is much more well versed on what happened than some random media outlet

Hrmnn:


Is it an RG-35?

Yes. The contract with Denel stipulated a finite number produced in SA and shipped to the UAE. Upgrades above a specific baseline to be produced in the UAE by NIMR, under licence.

jln115:

Actually i provided counter evidence that not one of your so called sources were on the ground, years ago .....were as if you read the book you would know that Mr Heitman uses actual reputable sources and being a internationally recognized military analist im certain he is much more well versed on what happened than some random media outlet

You must be drunk with an overdose of pap. The UN weren't on the ground, Al Jazeera, Reuters and the BBC quoted the UN and sources on the ground.

Dude, I won't read a book written by losers, it's not possible. Not when i have seen multiple proof to affirm my position.

According to you, Reuters, the BBC and the UN are random. Actually your hietman is only known here in Nairaland, in the African military threads and South-Africa. He's a basic military fanboy just like you and I.

Henry240:


You must be drunk with an overdose of pap. The UN weren't on the ground, Al Jazeera, Reuters and the BBC quoted the UN and sources on the ground.

Dude, I won't read a book written by losers, it's not possible. Not when i have seen multiple proof to affirm my position.

According to you, Reuters, the BBC and the UN are random. Actually your hietman is only known here in Nairaland, in the African military threads and South-Africa. He's a basic military fanboy just like you and I.

Yes Reuters and the BBC are random! Heitman on the other hand is a Jane's defence correspondent and has written numerous articles for Jane's and has several published books.....IF you read his book you would've realized that the UN is one of his sources......thus your argument holds no ground!

Also if you doubted his credentials he was also on the South African Defence Review Committee since 2011.

jln115:

Yes Reuters and the BBC are random! Heitman on the other hand is a Jane's defence correspondent and has written numerous articles for Jane's and has several published books.....IF you read his book you would've realized that the UN is one of his sources......thus your argument holds no ground!

Also if you doubted his credentials he was also on the South African Defence Review Committee since 2011.

Why, in the name of Kilimanjaro, why are you allowing yourself to be baited thus? Henry is not stupid enough to believe the media reports which reported "over 50 Saffers killed and the rest sheltering at the airport"; so he's only trolling you.

frumentius:

Why, in the name of Kilimanjaro, why are you allowing yourself to be baited thus? Henry is not stupid enough to believe the media reports which reported "over 50 Saffers killed and the rest sheltering at the airport"; so he's only trolling you.

I don't troll. I also did not say 50 Saffers were killed, all i've consistently said over the years is, SANDF Paratroopers were beaten, and quite well in the CAR. This is a widely held position.

Evidence which I've shared on multiple occasions supports this assertion.

jln115:

Yes Reuters and the BBC are random! Heitman on the other hand is a Jane's defence correspondent and has written numerous articles for Jane's and has several published books.....IF you read his book you would've realized that the UN is one of his sources......thus your argument holds no ground!

Also if you doubted his credentials he was also on the South African Defence Review Committee since 2011.

Heitman is a military fanboy, no different from you and I. He's a civilian expressing his opinion on military matters, his comments are not facts.

I want even respond to your random gibberish on multi-billion dollar, multi-national news corporations. I'll just attribute your gibberish to your constant overdose of Pap.

Like i said, he is only known in the African military threads in this forum and in South-Africa. Your post has done nothing to change this position.

Henry240:


Heitman is a military fanboy, no different from you and I. He's a civilian expressing his opinion on military matters, his comments are not facts.

I want even respond to your random gibberish on multi-billion dollar, multi-national news corporations. I'll just attribute your gibberish to your constant overdose of Pap.

Like i said, he is only known in the African military threads in this forum and in South-Africa. Your post has done nothing to change this position.

Former SADF officer!

NO internet warrior.

MikeCZA:
Former SADF officer!

NO internet warrior.

Former, meaning he has been a civilian for 23 years at least.

How does this disapprove my point?

Henry240:


Heitman is a military fanboy, no different from you and I. He's a civilian expressing his opinion on military matters, his comments are not facts.

I want even respond to your random gibberish on multi-billion dollar, multi-national news corporations. I'll just attribute your gibberish to your constant overdose of Pap.

Like i said, he is only known in the African military threads in this forum and in South-Africa. Your post has done nothing to change this position.

Here we see you labelling him "military fan". He's a former officer with multiple books. Don't know what you are talking about.

Rubbish you spewing here mate!

MikeCZA:
Here we see you labelling him "military fan". He's a former officer with multiple books. Don't know what you are talking about.

Rubbish you spewing here mate!

Anybody can write a book, ex-military or not. It doesn't mean your opinion on a matter is fact. It's just what it is.............. An opinion.

I've presented facts, including photos by correspondents who were present. They are undeniable, irrefutable proof.

Heitman, just like every other person is entitled to his opinion.

Henry240:


Anybody can write a book, ex-military or not. It doesn't mean your opinion on a matter is fact. It's just what it is.............. An opinion.

I've presented facts, including photos by correspondents who were present. They are undeniable, irrefutable proof.

Heitman, just like every other person is entitled to his opinion.

Funny how you are moving away from your military fan boy comments.


What photos and facts?

Henry240:


Heitman is a military fanboy, no different from you and I. He's a civilian expressing his opinion on military matters, his comments are not facts.

I want even respond to your random gibberish on multi-billion dollar, multi-national news corporations. I'll just attribute your gibberish to your constant overdose of Pap.

Like i said, he is only known in the African military threads in this forum and in South-Africa. Your post has done nothing to change this position.

Fanboy's aren't Janes correspondents, serve on defence review committees and get paid for defence related consulting work.

Vikkie14:
"Impoccicant"

Let even assume they do, they don't have the political and financial clout to sideline Nigeria in Ecowas.

Ecowas is still functioning today because of Nigeria.

Remove Nigeria and everything will come down splattering.

In case of a reduction of Nigeria's dominance, it will simply make the Military "do something" to overcome that challenge.

Nigerians are unique set of people that most times wait for the "thing" to happen before finding solution to it.

If not for BH, the tri-service won't have the coordination and synergy rampant nowadays, which also lead to troops welfare and professionalism.

Same thing for the Navy, if the Militants aint active then, we won't be seeing the reform ongoing.

What i'm saying in essence is that, Nigeria shines its Finest during "hard/Difficult times" because that's when one knows they can Innovate....the ATV and Motorbike are two examples.

I am sure you can still remember the doctrine of the Nigerian Armed forces, which is "internal peace for regional stability" it would remain like that for a long time to come. Morocco however have been known to sponsor insurgencies in neighboring States during the early days of the Arab Maghreb Union. Oga there are people that are very serious about external security, there are politicians in country that would not rest till their nation is fully protected from any form of external aggression, there are people under the deepest parts of the world's ocean today in submarines waiting to respond to attacks against the motherland, there are those that engage in espionage in seemingly friendly States just to ensure that their nations interests is protected, then there are Nigerians who say "Nigerians are unique set of people that most times wait for the "thing" to happen before finding solution to it." a very foul thing to say for anyone that would at any time be placed in charge of the security of anything.
there are people today rethinking scenarios and scenarios of attacks against their nation even from friendly countries, engaging in drills and conventional exercises to ensure they are ready for any type of attack. but you would rather wait till loved ones and family members are being attacked and that would be when you would start the bid to buy Air defense systems to protect your valuable assets, that would be when you would have time to join an experimental weapon program to give you the edge over your attacker. I know a lot of people will support you but it is a very pathetic thing to suggest.

during my days in school I learnt that "The Raison de Etat of any Nation is the protection of lived of it citizens by all means necessary." we exist to ensure that we keep existing. if militants were able to deal decisive blows to our old economy ask yourself the damage that a conventional force will do to it.

overhypedsteve:
I am sure you can still remember the doctrine of the Nigerian Armed forces, which is "internal peace for regional stability" it would remain like that for a long time to come. Morocco however have been known to sponsor insurgencies in neighboring States during the early days of the Arab Maghreb Union. Oga there are people that are very serious about external security, there are politicians in country that would not rest till their nation is fully protected from any form of external aggression, there are people under the deepest parts of the world's ocean today in submarines waiting to respond to attacks against the motherland, there are those that engage in espionage in seemingly friendly States just to ensure that their nations interests is protected, then there are Nigerians who say "Nigerians are unique set of people that most times wait for the "thing" to happen before finding solution to it." a very foul thing to say for anyone that would at any time be placed in charge of the security of anything.
there are people today rethinking scenarios and scenarios of attacks against their nation even from friendly countries, engaging in drills and conventional exercises to ensure they are ready for any type of attack. but you would rather wait till loved ones and family members are being attacked and that would be when you would start the bid to buy Air defense systems to protect your valuable assets, that would be when you would have time to join an experimental weapon program to give you the edge over your attacker. I know a lot of people will support you but it is a very pathetic thing to suggest.

Oga, na grammar you dey yarn.

This shows you are out of tune with reality and alienated from the Nigerian perspective.

What i posted is not a "SUGGESTION" but the "REALITY" on ground.

during my days in school I learnt that "The Raison de Etat of any Nation is the protection of lived of it citizens by all means necessary." we exist to ensure that we keep existing. if militants were able to deal decisive blows to our old economy ask yourself the damage that a conventional force will do to it.

I don't need to ask myself any question, you're simply out of order.
BTW, i'm not aware if you are Nigerian and if you are, i'm poised to believe you're living outside the country.

In respect to what i said, here is what Henry has to say:
[

Henry240:


Morocco joining ECOWAS is good news for us. We need proper competition. This would only make us better.

And this is what i said earlier:

....
In case of a reduction of Nigeria's dominance, it will simply make the Military "do something" to overcome that challenge.

Nigerians are unique set of people that most times wait for the "thing" to happen before finding solution to it.
If not for BH, the tri-service won't have the coordination and synergy rampant nowadays, which also lead to troops welfare and professionalism.
Same thing for the Navy, if the Militants aint active then, we won't be seeing the reform ongoing.
What i'm saying in essence is that, Nigeria shines its Finest during "hard/Difficult times" because that's when one knows they can Innovate

Infact, i don't understand why Comprehension eludes you this time around Buddy.

Vikkie14:
Oga, na grammar you dey yarn.

This shows you are out of tune with reality and alienated from the Nigerian perspective.

What i posted is not a "SUGGESTION" but the "REALITY" on ground.


I don't need to ask myself any question, you're simply out of order.
BTW, i'm not aware if you are Nigerian and if you are, i'm poised to believe you're living outside the country.

In respect to what i said, here is what Henry has to say:
[
And this is what i said earlier:
Infact, i don't understand why Comprehension eludes you this time around Buddy.

you have just succeeded in attacking me without stating one single valid opinion of yours to counter my point cmon man quoting Henry? bros if i wanted to talk to Henry i will do that directly na. there is no need to hide behind him when posting insensitive responses.
i know i am yarning grammer, if you would prefer that i speak to you in your local language using Gtranslator then please tell me. because your response to my post came in late and as such i expected you to have spent time to understand and appreciate what i am really saying. i did you the honour of giving you a lenghty academic grade reply backing my point with history and also quoting the doctrine of the Nigerian Armed forces and you replied me by telling me Henry240 agrees with and so therefore you are correct? I would try not to respond to your quotes or reply again. your intelligence level as shown in this your post is not competitive enough to benefit me or anybody engaging in a discourse with you. from my posts anybody could easily learn something:
1. Algeria and Maroc have strained relations
2. Morocco is cheifly concerned about her western Saharan interests
3. Morocco have sponsored insurgencies in the past
4. the raison de etat of nations
5. Nigeria have a security and defense doctrine
6. Nations prepare before hand for crisis.

what have we learnt from your aggressive reply?
1. you are somebody that depends on other people's approval in life
2. you rely on insults and aggression and the opinion of others to hide your Ignorance
3. you do not yet understand what it takes to be a patriot, no patriot naturally accepts the status quo of his country when he know they can do better.
4. you think you have a great comprehension skill but from most of your reply it seem to be no better than that of a hen trying to pick corn through the surface of a glass bottle.

4.

Vikkie14:
Oga, na grammar you dey yarn.

This shows you are out of tune with reality and alienated from the Nigerian perspective.

What i posted is not a "SUGGESTION" but the "REALITY" on ground.


I don't need to ask myself any question, you're simply out of order.
BTW, i'm not aware if you are Nigerian and if you are, i'm poised to believe you're living outside the country.

In respect to what i said, here is what Henry has to say:
[
And this is what i said earlier:
Infact, i don't understand why Comprehension eludes you this time around Buddy.

I am out of tune with reality? what reality, your own mind created illusion or the Nigerian national interest and defense a d security strategy which I have had the very rare opportunity to enjoy the tutelage of very refined foreign affairs intelligentsia, the reality on ground is that state live in an anarchic and lawless society where each state must struggle to achieve its interests at the expense of the other, I have just raised very serious issue that need to be considered in future threat assessments in Nigeria and what have you raised? insults, calling of a fellow forumite like you to back your poorly contested claims. you have also made a firm and clear assertion that you do not understand, why. I, like any other person would find it difficult to understand your overarching ignorance on a topic that you have been reading about and commenting on, almost everyday for the past few years. you have shown that you have a very shallow and uncompetitive knowledge of such topics as relates to defense and foreign politics and you have also suggested to us that your opinion does not count much if it is not backed by the opinion of others.

one would have enjoyed teaching you some of the basics but the problem is, you have used your right hand to cover your eyes from seeing people opinion as relevant and you have went further to protect yourself from the reprimands of people by sticking the other hand up your own anu5 so that any advice given to you by kind hearted users of this forum to go fvck yourself would be of non effect.

overhypedsteve:

4.

I almost replied but then, I remembered what I wrote in response to a similar issue

So, I'm compelled to"Let go" and "overlook" this because I discovered that, not every 'commentary' worth a feedback, Especially when the sanity of the thread is at stake coupled with the fact that some "knowledge" are actually Over Hyped.

I will let this rest.

Vikkie14:
I almost replied but then, I remembered what I wrote in response to a similar issue

So, I'm compelled to"Let go" and "overlook" this because I discovered that, not every 'commentary' worth a feedback, Especially when the sanity of the thread is at stake coupled with the fact that some "knowledge" are actually Over Hyped.

I will let this rest.

sanity of which thread? oga this is a discussion thread and that is why i brought your quote here if you truly have anything to say in reply please write it, if not just bow in shame and run like you have just did. taking about sanity of thread, when you are so willing to reply with insane and worthless comments to people's intelligent assertions. mtchwww. you have just realised that insulting me ( which is the only thing some of you know how to do in an argument wont save you from this one. so leaving the many points i made you quoted the empty no. 4 and said you were forced to reply, reply what?

jln115:

You mean a shellacking by the Russian winter!!

If Hitler just had the common sense not to attack Russia in winter it would've been bye bye USSR...also remember the Germans were fighting on multiple fronts and were still fvcking up the Russians before Winter hit!!

abeg make una no vex that I resurrected an old discussion. I just had to respond. The general misconception is that Germans lost to the Russian winter. i.e Russian winter played the biggest role in the Germans losing out to Russia. This is not true. Yes the Russia winter played a role but the biggest reason why Germany lost to Russia was due to Hitler's sense of invisibility, craziness and extreme arrogance. Germans went into Russia believing they were in for a swift victory the likes experienced in Western Europe. They considered the Russian to be of a lesser class of people who would surrender in their droves under the Blitzkrieg. The expected to to be home by Christmas (a 6 months campaign)

This arrogance made the Germans commit the following tactical error:

Started the campaign without preparing for the Russian winter: The men had no winter clothing, their hardware had no provision for coping with the russian winter.

They completely under estimated the fanatical defends of the mother russia by the Russians who in many instances fought to the last man.. This type of resistance was alien to the Germans who were used to mass surrender once a you outflank and surround an army.. it is suppose to just give up and surrender. The Russians choose not to play to that script and instead fought with the skin of their teeth even when all hope seems lost. Germans often find themselves surrounding and then having to take out the Russians from every inch of land leading to very high attrition from the former.

No room for reserve, Arrogance allowed the Germans to throw in all they had.. because they were assured of victory, they made no room for reserve. Stalin on the other hand used his reserve very well. Unleashing them on the wary Germans time after time at just the perfect moment.

Badly trained and equipped flanks. The Germans rear guard and flanks were often guarded by poorly trained, ill motivated and equipped Hungarian alley. The Russian on many cases especially in the battle for Stalingrad concentrated their fire power on the German Hungarian flanks.. decimating them with their multi rocket launcher before encircling the 6th army (Germany never recovered from that loss)

Hitler's insanity halted the German advance on Moscow, allowing the Russians enough time to prepare a defence. Many German general would go on to say Moscow was the beginning of the end for the German eastern campaign.

Also Hitler's obsession with Stalingrad, a city with zero strategic value but sucked in lots of men and resources which should have been heading towards the more strategic oil fields of baku.. Hitler insanity was in full display when he ordered the 6th army not to attempt to break out of their encirclement even when the opportunity arose. Promising to supply the troops by air.

Even at the battle of the kursk Hitlers delay and constant postponement allowed the Russians to have time to a well laid out plan.

in all these Winter role was just an enabler for the Russian's

Henry240 what do u think about the Absalon support ship

jln115:

How am i confused?

In both cases i stated that the purchase price as stated included training

So you want to go down this road again?......not to long ago NAF only had 7 operational aircraft in its entire fleet.

Maybe the standards in NAF aren't that high but in SAAF only 1 year out of 5 is for basic flight training....so thus i expect any one with basic flight training even on a hawk will be able to fly a gripen....because its so easy as u say.

My friend shut the hell up!

What do you know about pilot training, the Gripen is the easiest 4 Gen aircraft to fly yet your dull pilots can't seem to know how to fly them.

Jets you signed contracts for in 1999. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Go back and read your comment dullard.

You lack men and women qualified enough to fly your planes hence you are stuck with not more than 9 Gripen pilots.

Henry240:


My friend shut the hell up!

What do you know about pilot training, the Gripen is the easiest 4 Gen aircraft to fly yet your dull pilots can't seem to know how to fly them.

Jets you signed contracts for in 1999. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Go back and read your comment dullard.

You lack men and women qualified enough to fly your planes hence you are stuck with not more than 9 Gripen pilots.

-pfft uhmmm No!

-Don't need to know much, simply quoting SAAF......Being easy to fly is good thing dumdum, its becoming combat qualified which takes time...but as you said, you're not an expert so i don't expect you to know that.

-so ashamed that we are now sitting with 26 4+ gen Gripens and NAF is till flying around with glorified Mig21s

-I did

- How many operational platforms in NAF again......7??

jln115:


-pfft uhmmm No!

-Don't need to know much, simply quoting SAAF......Being easy to fly is good thing dumdum, its becoming combat qualified which takes time...but as you said, you're not an expert so i don't expect you to know that.

-so ashamed that we are now sitting with 26 4+ gen Gripens and NAF is till flying around with glorified Mig21s

-I did

- How many operational platforms in NAF again......7??

No dipsh1t, I'm directly quoting SAAB. Only problem is, there virtually exists no South-African smart enough to fly the Gripen, hence you are stuck with 9 pilots.

What's the point of sitting with 26 planes when you only have pilots for 9 if them. Damn, 18 solid years to train 9 pilots. That's very shameful.

NAF has more combat sorties or any type of sortie than all Air Forces south of the Sahara.

We also have a massive pool of pilots to choose from, including modern assets they fly. Why should I be ashamed of that?

The SAAF continues to prove it is a completely worthless force, with no pool of qualified individuals to pick from.

Go masturbate with an SAAF Gripen picture, while real combat pilots in Nigeria fly real combat missions all across Africa.

R3tard!