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Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 9:59am On Feb 23, 2017 |
Nbote: Unfortunately you are not using your head. It is simple, where and how will the law takes its full recourse? The custom has the perogative to sieze the goods and choose not to arrest. If the owners are so sure of their claims, let them show up and show how the goods came into the country. Shebi there are documentations (port papers, shipping documents and stuffs) Yes they have checkpoints in various smuggling routes, but my question is, are the customs lawfully empowered to trace and seize smuggled goods that beat those check-points? Absolutely YES!!! |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 10:01am On Feb 23, 2017 |
onyxo76: I am uninterested in the illegal acts of corrupt custom officers, neither do the illegal acts of corrupt custom officials legalises the illegality of trading in smuggled goods |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Nobody: 10:04am On Feb 23, 2017 |
Sick corrupt bastards 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by sirlop(m): 10:06am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet:What is illegal. We are not a producer of tyre, we still ban used tyres. Y not ban used vehicles too cos they come with used tires. What I expect them to do is specify the quality of products to be imported not outright ban cos we produce nothing cos of our epileptic power supply. Companies have left Nigeria cos of our governments inability to provide us with steady power supply. Y do u make useless laws when you know you haven't done your part. Billions have been spent on this so called energy sector and we still have nothing to show..."which way Nigeria" 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 10:20am On Feb 23, 2017 |
Babamide: See how you just showed your ignorance. Bros, there is something called the CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (SPECIAL PENAL AND OTHER PROVISIONS) ACT. Section 3 clearly states "Possession of smuggled goods to be an offence". 1) If any person is found anywhere in Nigeria in possession of any goods to which this section applies, he shall be guilty of an offence unless he proves- |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 10:25am On Feb 23, 2017 |
sirlop: You have moved from a position of crass ignorance to shifting the goal post. You first made a false assertion The existing local farmers are not given any atom of encouragement by the government, you then justify smugglers' acts....now you bring in myriads of excuses that are out of context....... is it for the sake of argument |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by ivandragon: 10:37am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: what's your point? does the law permit security agencies to break into shops & cart away goods without first investigating/verifying if those goods were illegally acquired? 2 Likes |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Cool83(m): 10:52am On Feb 23, 2017 |
Keneking:where is the Lake rice 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Babamide(m): 10:55am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet:I ask if u work for Nigerian custom service because u are here doing PRO work. Does the law state that the goods should be seized or the offenders arrested and prosecuted. Does the law allow the enforcers to break into shops and warehouses. Is the Nigerian custom service the enforcer of such laws. The custom service were given one duty, collection of import duty and anti smuggling efforts. I repeat that breaking into shops and carting away imported goods with the help of the military in the middle of the night remains illegal. 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 10:56am On Feb 23, 2017 |
ivandragon: Actually Yes!. The Law permit Customs to seize smuggled goods ANYWHERE in Nigeria |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 11:08am On Feb 23, 2017 |
Babamide: 1. Asking if I work for Nigerian Customs Services is a lame question 2. I am here doing PRO work or you are here arguing lame 3. Section 167 of the Customs and Excise Management Act empowers Customs or even police officers or any other authorized persons approved by the Customs Board to seize or detail goods liable for forfeiture...... I don't know why you guys find it difficult to use google to clarify simple things 4. Who told you Customs Services duties are limited to - collection of import duty and anti smuggling efforts, you see how your ignorance is just "dancing on a platter".... 5. Are Customs by law permited to break into shops? Hell YES!!! Section 147. Power to search premises 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by donjahsy(m): 11:09am On Feb 23, 2017 |
This is matter of Masters and Slaves.. I no mention any name oo! 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by ivandragon: 11:15am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: what constitutes a smuggled good(s)? is it not when the owner of a good cannot show evidence that the good is/was not illegally brought into the country that it can be confiscated? for example, when you travel with your private car & custom officials stop you, the first thing demanded is the import documentation for the car, they do not confiscate your car BEFORE asking for your papers... that's simple logic... hence they should have been more thorough in their duty of identifying the 'smugglers' & their goods rather than raiding indiscriminately... & if your blanket assertion is to be followed, even your smartphone is liable to be confiscated without reason or recourse to sensible moderation... 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 11:20am On Feb 23, 2017 |
ivandragon: This is simple. Familiarise yourself with the CUSTOMS AND EXCISE MANAGEMENT ACT, where it is stated clearly what constitute smuggled goods, and what is to be done to various categories of such goods |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Babamide(m): 11:24am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet:Downloaded, seen. I concede. |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by ivandragon: 11:54am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: Mapet, as always, we are splitting hairs here... I am reasonably familiar with the Act, but just like every Act, Decree & laws generally, there are always limitations & subject to interpretations in court of law. Customs has incredibly broad 'powers', but those powers do not include impunity. at those goods could have been 'spot seized' & then the owners be allowed to present the relevant papers on request, those who fail to do so would have their goods taken away... even when Customs board ships, they first of all ask for the manifest & other relevant documents. only goods that are expressly banned that such a raid can be justified. its similar to our police... that they have the power to arrest doesn't mean it should be used indiscriminately. well, let the owners of the goods do the needful, some of them claim to have proper papers, so they should make steps to recover their goods. 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Nobody: 11:56am On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: Sentimental cry? Yes. That betrayed logic? No. In response to your points listed above: 1. The market space is occupied by smuggled rice because of poor implementation of policies. When Nigerian government is serious about these market policies, they will enforce them- the right way. It is more logical for customs officers to arrest, detain and subsequently prosecute rice smugglers. Why take bribes from them to encourage them, only to turn round and 'STEAL' these items? Have you ever bothered to ask what happens to most of these seized goods(apart from the few they burn openly)? A renowned rice seller in Ibadan once told me she got most of her stock from custom officers. Why? How? 2. Maybe they are not sincere traders by trading in smuggled items, but then, I once read on this same nairaland the struggle, the sweat and the stress of getting the Lagos/Kebbi rice last December. When will these locally grown rice be available to the common man? Because of the health benefits, I buy my local rice mostly from Ekiti state and I can tell you it's so expensive few people can afford it on a regular basis. Even I have to substitute with these foreign rice these days. 3. Regarding the porous borders, yes, I agree they are collaborators. However, what happens to those whose duty it is to man the borders? My friend and I needed to buy fuel at a gas station sometime when there was scarcity. The queues were so long and rowdy. We remained in the scorching sun until a policeman codedly asked my friend to go park the car across the street if we had a 50L keg. We did, and we paid him N500 for his services. Now, the policemen did it for many motorists that day and we heard that serious fights broke out later. Call us collaborators, but the policeman that was meant to guard, and guide was too corrupt to maintain order. All in all, slicing off the head is not an antidote for headache at anytime. Like someone pointed out earlier, why not seal off the affected shops, arrest the affected importers and the bribe-taking customs officers on duty the day the affected goods were brought in to the country? I reiterate; what happens to the seized rice and vegetable oil? ? ? Was there any record of what and what was seized/stolen from which stores? Why didn't they go when they can make arrests? Of course, they arrested the bags of rice and ororo...that's the koko for them. 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by dan2976: 12:44pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
HAH: where is the local rice.... can even lake rice by lagos and kebbi feed half of lagos state.? the demand for rice out weighs what is available. you cant break even on production overnight. it takes money to speed up production and distribution but look at the banks... they are the worst hit by this recession.. gone are the days when people farm with hoe and cutlass, if you want to feed a nation... to ban rice outright with no alternative is stupid especially when it is no.1 staple food. it should be in faces so it does not affect market price. need i remind you, when jonathan as stupid as he was left office, rice was selling at N8,500.how much is it today. 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 1:30pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
candy: Well I will take this submission as the soft-side which has little to do with the letter and the spirit of the la 1. Even with corrupt govt, seizure and confiscation of contraband items is standard all over the world. Arrest is different in this context. Arrest is targeted at the smugglers, who in this case are not the market sellers. The law is clear that when the goods makes it to market, it will be forfeited. You make it sound like bribe taking by corrupt Custom officers is an excuse for these people committing the said offence? That to me is living in denial. One, smuggled rice arrive at the doorstep of these sellers at a ridiculously cheaper rate....that should tell anyone that they are contraband 2. The truth is that these sellers know they are trading in contraband. You yourself admitted to this in your writeup. Can these sellers now want to feign ignorance of the law? When has buying contraband goods legitimises selling such goods in the open market? In times past Customs officers (corruptly or legally) raid markets to swoop in on shops selling contrabands, so the market people cannot claim ignorance of the knowledge of the good as contraband or the risk that Custom will come 3. Madam, Lagos-Kebbi did get to the market and will further get to market if we allow it to. This includes clearing the market of illegal ones, so that the system can target these sellers for off-take. The cost model for goods like these first start off with high cost as growers and middlemen will need to off-set their initial outlay, then the price gradually comes down. Kebbi can produce 2Trillion tonnes of Rice, Sokoto & Taraba are poised to produce over 5Trillion tonnes, not to talk of Ebonyi, Anambra and other states. The Economists recently had an article saying "Nigeria,the Largest Rice Consumer in the world, Yet don't grow it. Is that not an economic embarrasement? We have two rice growning season in a year. We need to let these Rice "take position" in our local market and earn of Forex in the regional and global market. We cannot achieve that if we are not as disciplined enough to disallow the "weeds" in contraband to distort the value-appreciation of our local rice 3. Those whose duty is to man the borders are culpable, yet it is more complicated than that. Nigeria has a huge Kilometer of unmanned borders across the country and we are not yet equipped (man-power & Resources wise) to address this. Secondly raids and confiscation is not only a deterent, but also conceptually part of border patrol. The law made provision for stuffs that will slip through the border, that is why the forfeiture sections of the Customs and Excise Management Acts empowers Customs and Police to seize goods that sneaks through the boarder In this case Ori bibe l'ogun orififo o I am not sure sealing buildings is within the remit of customs, but they are empowered to seize goods Now without sentiments, Let us look at cases where Customs or Police or Other Agencies have done cases related to smuggling, contraband etc 1. Last 2 weeks, an "Indian-made" Garri made it to the stall of a supermarket. Nigerians cried out in anger. The authorities moved swiftly to action and seized all the Garri found in store. It was discovered that the "Gari" was smuggled in from Ghana...... 2. In the days of OBJ, Dangote imported some stuffs and his papers were not complete. Those stuffs made it to his warehouse(aparently someone must have bribed Customs) Customs raided Dangote's warehouse and seized those stuffs 3. In 2016, Customs raided a warehouse in Kano where there was contraband textile materials and seized them all. These and many other examples are abound. Now we did not hear any hue or cry about these cases, but when it concerns "us", we try to rationalise illegality Cheers |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 1:37pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
ivandragon: 1. Where did I even allude to the fact that Customs power include impunity? This is you trying to buttress your argument the coy way 2. Let any of these market women come up and present papers through which the rice was imported? I thought importation of rice is banned. That means (if they are the importers) will have to show that the rice in question was bought before the law banning importation of rice came into being in the first place. Can this be proven? 3. And where do you want to "spot-seize" the goods? In the market? Is that the way Customs are to operate? The forfeiture sections of the Act clearly states what Customs should do when such contraband makes it into the country. 4. Bros, I am not convinced that you have familiarised yourself with the act, else you will not be making fundamentally flawed statements like in bold. There is a difference between the process of checking at the port and seizure of goods outside the port |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 1:38pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
Babamide: Cheers |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Nobody: 1:48pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
Eledan: Yels nau Later they will be like..... "share all the seized rice in Customs warehouse to the IDP's" Then newspaper will carry.... "7 trailers of rice going to IDP camps missing " or..... "7 policemen shot dead as they struggle for Rice with Soldiers " I don tire my people!!! 4 Likes |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by dan2976: 1:54pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: kill which business? rice is selling at almost N20,000. when importation was permitted under jonathan, it was N8,500. business for who..... is it the so called local farmersat the expense of the masses? 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Blue3k(m): 1:56pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: Too answer both your questions yes illegal operations happen all the time in the north. There is smuggling of of food stuff from Niger Republic to Katsina kaduna and kano. On the Nigerian side gasoline in smuggled along with textile goods. This has adverse effects on Northern manufacturing. I'll have to add links later on in the morning. I did plenty of research on Niger Nigeria cross border trade. 1 Like |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by InvertedHammer: 2:02pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
EazyMoh:/ This is life! When Boko Haram killed christians, other muslims cheered them on. Now Boko boys are bombing mosques and fellow muslims. When the Nigerian state targeted Igbo business folks at Ladipo and Alaba, Yoruba people cheered them on. Now Fed. Govt are serving them the same dishes. When one supports evil against another, it tends to boomerang when least expected. Injustice against one is injustice against all. But not in Nigeria where ethnicism reigns supreme. \ 3 Likes |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by ivandragon: 2:25pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: 1. you are the one being coy & dragging on about an issue that is pretty straightforward & trying to make Customs seem like the 'untouchables' who can do & undo; 2. http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/10/customs-lifts-ban-importation-rice/ all the more reason why the raid is been faulted. why raid at 1am when people would not be at their shops to defend themselves? even the constitution says we are entitled to fair hearing. 3. why can't the rice section of the market be condoned off? I think security agencies that can hire 15 trailers to pack goods should be more thorough & professional in its duties & the issue remains, where the owners given opportunity to prove otherwise within reasonable bounds? if those goods were warehoused in a single warehouse, it could be a different matter... not from various shops. 4. Checking at seaport, within territorial waters, airports, land borders or along the road or rail lines... the fact remains, Customs will confiscate your 'probable' smuggled goods if you are not able to present your proper papers at that point (benefit of doubt), but the rice dealers where not given that chance. look, I believe that your argument is that Customs had a right to seize the rice. on that, no argument... the issue is the way & manner the raid was carried out especially with the reasonable possibility that a number of those bags of rice entered through proper means. that's the long & short of the matter... |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by Nobody: 2:44pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
mapet: Yes, I'm being soft on the sellers because they are victims of a failed system. If a hunch backed man caries a load, the load will look crooked on his head because of his already crooked posture. The failure is evident everywhere, more like a foundational problem. I'm not in anyway justifying smuggling, but I'm condemning the system that encourages smuggling, only to punish smaller fish for their failure to combat smuggling. |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by ISTANDWITHBUHAR: 2:51pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
WizBLANCE: So they should have gone there during the day and lead to lost of lives? Seem you don't know how deadly that area is.. |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 2:58pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
ivandragon: 1. Why are you wasting my time with obfuscation? You reference a news that was refuted by Customs the very next day. I am sure you google-searched the link, The news you referenced was on October 8th 2016, yet on October 9th 2016 in the very same Vanguard newspaper the Customs refuted the earlier published news http://www.vanguardngr.com/2016/10/rice-imports-remain-banned-land-borders-customs/ 2. Why raid at 1p.m? Because the law permit them to raid at any time. The Customs & Excise Management Act Section 147. Power to search premises 3. Why can't rice section be cordoned off? The law did not prescribe that in the Act. The law says FORFEITURE. I would have imagined that the logical thing for you to do at this stage is to back your position with relevant aspect of the law. I need to know if my argument with you is from the point of law or from your opinions and conjectures 4. The Act provides for these traders or importers of these Rice to go to the Customs & Excise Board to show proof that they paid all dues. That is what the traders should do if they have proof. The very first question you should ask is, how many of these traders can show proof...virtually none. Why? Importing Rice is ILLEGAL 4 |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 3:02pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
Blue3k: Bros, No need 1. My question was to point out the mutual exclusivity of the position of the two guys, re: You cannot accuse govt of exclusively "attacking" rice smugglers of the east, in the same breath condemn smuggling 2. I know that there is a smuggling ring up north. Smuggling of cars is rampant in the north too. I also gave an example of how smugglers of textile of Chinese origin were discovered in a Kano Warehouse |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 3:04pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
dan2976: Bros, I am not ready for "primary-school" type of argument..... |
Re: Customs Breaks Rice Shops In Ogun, Seize 4,550 Bags Of Rice by mapet: 3:06pm On Feb 23, 2017 |
candy: You're right, the rot in the system is bigger than market men and women. We can only start from a point and sustain it. I believe the current leadership of Customs is starting a cleansing which can only be sustained if we a country has the will |
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