gerg: Where are you from? This will determine if I will respond to you or not
Am from Anambra but I live in Enuani land I tell you, I try to even interpret agbo dialect to some of them. You know the truth stop lying! Unless you are not base in any part of Delta North
Klinee: Am from Anambra but I live in Enuani land I tell you, I try to even interpret agbo dialect to some of them. You know the truth stop lying! Unless you are not base in any part of Delta North
He is not wrong about the commonalities in Anioma languages.
He is not wrong about the commonalities in Anioma languages.
There is commonalities in all IGBO dialect but intonation and the way it's being expressed makes it difficult for proximal region to understood. If we break all this dialects on a basis, you will notice that they all speak the same.
Klinee: There is commonalities in all IGBO dialect but intonation and the way it's being expressed makes it difficult for proximal region to understood. If we break all this dialects on a basis, you will notice that they all speak the same.
I am not talking about general pan-Igbo commonalities. I am talking about specific commonalities that connect the Anioma languages or dialects. While, Enuani and parts of Anambra are undeniably very close and mutual intelligibility is high, it is also very true that Enuani and Ika share certain usages that collectively separate them from usages in the SE, with the possible exception of Onitsha (which is historically of Enuani pedigree.)
Klinee: Am from Anambra but I live in Enuani land I tell you, I try to even interpret agbo dialect to some of them. You know the truth stop lying! Unless you are not base in any part of Delta North
You're from Anambra and you try to interpret Agbor to Enuani speakers? So Anambra people understand Ika better Enuani speakers? the joke is on you. Igbos are known liars. It didn't start from here and it's not going to end here.
Lol, an exile land for whom? igwenga doesn't mean exile,. In our Ibani Kingdoms Igwenga or Egwenga means wealth or affluence. therefore in our early historic times, all assets including manillas, houses and even human belonging to any chief or war canoe House were refered to as Igwenga. This gave rise to present Ikot-Abasi in our former Opobo to be called Egwenga by us, as King Jaja ,his chiefs,and European trade partners colonized,conquered and dominated that axis for their numerous trading activities across the Opobo main city state. thus Egwenga of the Akwas became Opobo territory uptill after the Nigeria civil war. "IGWENGA BERE KIKI, FI KIKIAGHA means IF YOU CAN STRUGGLE OR BLOCK WEALTH ISSUES, YOU CAN NOT DO SAME TO DEATH" T.M.O
You need to take a step back and revisit your claim up there. First of all, looking at the ibani alphabet, the double consonant feature, 'gw' is absent in the language which simply tells you Igwenga is foreign to the Ibani language and not native to it. In fact many double consonant feature present in Igbo, Yoruba etc are absent in Ibani Egere.
I understood many of what was said. Honestly at first glance, Ika is basic igbo dialect spoken with edoid pronunciations/inflections. This is possible given that many edoid families and those fleeing the bini empire in the past settled in Ika land several centuries ago. Part of this settlement was cultural acculturation into the environment and learning the language, and for first/initial speakers pronouncing Ika words with edoid inflections would be expected, which over time gave birth to a generation of people speaking Ika with edoid inflections. Another possible bini influence on Ika is the replacement of 'ch' with 'k' which is clearly heard when the singer said 'eki ri ime'/'echi di ime'. However, the basics or the structure of the dialect resembles closely other igbo dialects than bini.
Also, these bini settlers in Ika came with several bini words which were fused into Ika however in recent times Ika dialect generally is dropping off bini words for certain items and adopting or rather 're-adopting' the Igbo equivalents instead.
Ali onye wu ndua...ala onye bu ndu ya? I'm guessing?
. Part of this settlement was cultural acculturation into the environment and learning the language, and for first/initial speakers pronouncing Ika words with edoid inflections would be expected, which over time gave birth to a generation of people speaking Ika with edoid inflections.
I understood many of what was said. Honestly at first glance, Ika is basic igbo dialect spoken with edoid pronunciations/inflections. This is possible given that many edoid families and those fleeing the bini empire in the past settled in Ika land several centuries ago. Part of this settlement was cultural acculturation into the environment and learning the language, and for first/initial speakers pronouncing Ika words with edoid inflections would be expected, which over time gave birth to a generation of people speaking Ika with edoid inflections. Another possible bini influence on Ika is the replacement of 'ch' with 'k' which is clearly heard when the singer said 'eki ri ime'. However, the basics or the structure of the dialect resembles closely other igbo dialects than bini.
Also, these bini settlers in Ika came with several bini words which were fused into Ika however in recent times Ika dialect generally is dropping off bini words for certain items and adopting or rather 're-adopting' the Igbo equivalents instead.
Ali onye wu ndua...ala onye bu ndu ya? I'm guessing?
I started a thread re. Ika/Ukwuani and was hoping for and expecting your input. What's your opinion on Ika and Ukwuani people re. language and traditional culture? Igbo or not?
gerg: You're from Anambra and you try to interpret Agbor to Enuani speakers? So Anambra people understand Ika better Enuani speakers? the joke is on you. Igbos are known liars. It didn't start from here and it's not going to end here.
Guy take it or leave it Enuani people don't understand Ika, fact! I understand a little bit of Ika because I happen to stay close to some of them so learnt a bit of it. Did you expect an average Oko man,Okpanam man,Asaba man, okwe man,ogwashi uku man, Ushi man,Illa man,iselle Azagba man, Igbuzo man to understand Ika? ehu? come on, Impossible unless the person lived in Ika-land or maybe has a close tie with an Ika persons. Am not saying this in order to alienate the Ikas from their Enuani-anioma brothers but I say what I saw and how it is happening and you know that.
I am not talking about general pan-Igbo commonalities. I am talking about specific commonalities that connect the Anioma languages or dialects. While, Enuani and parts of Anambra are undeniably very close and mutual intelligibility is high, it is also very true that Enuani and Ika share certain usages that collectively separate them from usages in the SE, with the possible exception of Onitsha (which is historically of Enuani pedigree.)
Am not trying to separate Ika from anioma nor to alienate them from their Enuani brothers nor trying to align Anambra and Enuani nor trying to force anybody to be IGBO, but am telling exactly how I saw it on the ground and am sure that you know that am not lying. An average Enuani person does not understand Ika dialect!! simple!
I started a thread re. Ika/Ukwuani and was hoping for and expecting your input. What's your opinion on Ika and Ukwuani people re. language and traditional culture? Igbo or not?
Sorry I did not see the thread. Lately I just breeze in here to read some threads and i'm out immediately.
I may not be able to tell accurately what may have occurred in the past but I can only 'guestimate' what may have happened. In my opinion, the Ika and Ukwuani are an Igbo aboriginal stock or original settlers in their areas with later migrations of settlers into the areas from the bini kingdom during its peak (many people fled this kingdom during its hey days including the Esan people and some other edoid groups), especially in the Ika area. The presence of families retaining Bini surnames in Ika land is evidence of this. However, the natives or aboriginals may have been an Igbo group that absorbed later migrations from the Bini-speaking areas. In the past, a lot of migrations occurred and people often crossed linguistic territories into new areas, settling there and adapting culturally and linguistically. In terms of numbers, the bini settlers may not have been more than the Igbo-speaking natives overall and I am sure that if DNA test is performed, it would show the ratio of Igbo vs Bini in terms of Ika ancestry. By being located very close to the Bini kingdom, Ika land was often a receiving 'port' sort of for many fleeing Bini kingdom. It also experienced substantial Bini influence in terms of Kingship style, which would be expected as two different linguistic towns living next to each other often influence the other in several subtle ways. The Binis currently use the Igbo 4 market day week system and it is Nri influence which may have gotten to Bini land through Ika town. Thus, in my opinion Ikas are an ancient Igbo bunch which assimilated several Edoid-speaking families and also influenced by Bini culture by its close proximity to Bini kingdom. This is also confirmed by the history of Ika book by an Ika elder. http://people.bu.edu/manfredi/Iduuwe.History.pdf
Ukwuani land is located close to Edo state also but further south and by its close proximity to Edoid areas assimilated several Edoid-speaking people. However, it experienced less Bini cultural influence compared to the Ika area. My opinion here also is that they are an Igbo aboriginal group with fewer Bini assimilation compared to Ika land.
You need to take a step back and revisit your claim up there. First of all, looking at the ibani alphabet, the double consonant feature, 'gw' is absent in the language which simply tells you Igwenga is foreign to the Ibani language and not native to it. In fact many double consonant feature present in Igbo, Yoruba etc are absent in Ibani Egere.
Ibani vowels and consonants.
I bliv you will agree with me that if you spoke Ibani language you would know its words, from your posts i assume that you are an Igbo, you must have learnt the igbo words before learning how to write in asusu igbo so independent of wateva orthography given you know what is igbo and what is borrowed. The image I attached is from the book by Adadonye Fombo, this thread btw is mainly about the Ika, lets not derail it. Thanks
Klinee: There is commonalities in all IGBO dialect but intonation and the way it's being expressed makes it difficult for proximal region to understood. If we break all this dialects on a basis, you will notice that they all speak the same.
I understood many of what was said. Honestly at first glance, Ika is basic igbo dialect spoken with edoid pronunciations/inflections. This is possible given that many edoid families and those fleeing the bini empire in the past settled in Ika land several centuries ago. Part of this settlement was cultural acculturation into the environment and learning the language, and for first/initial speakers pronouncing Ika words with edoid inflections would be expected, which over time gave birth to a generation of people speaking Ika with edoid inflections. Another possible bini influence on Ika is the replacement of 'ch' with 'k' which is clearly heard when the singer said 'eki ri ime'/'echi di ime'. However, the basics or the structure of the dialect resembles closely other igbo dialects than bini.
Also, these bini settlers in Ika came with several bini words which were fused into Ika however in recent times Ika dialect generally is dropping off bini words for certain items and adopting or rather 're-adopting' the Igbo equivalents instead.
Ali onye wu ndua...ala onye bu ndu ya? I'm guessing?
you're not being honest here. You're completely biased. Words can easily be borrowed but accent is more difficult to change. We're Ika people, we speak Igbo with an Ika accent and inflections which is Edoid, same way we would speak any other languages with Ika accent.
It's never possible for a migrating group coming to Ika area to influence the way we pronounce words. They can only introduce new words but the new words will be pronounced in the accent of the aboriginal language. If Edos were the latter migrators and settlers, we would only be having many Edo words which would be pronounced in Igbo accent but the reverse is the case here. We have Edo words pronounced with Edo accent and many Igbo words also mostly pronounced with Edo inflections. Which shows Edo language is the original language here.
Cire80: you're not being honest here. You're completely biased. Words can easily be borrowed but accent is more difficult to change. We're Ika people, we speak Igbo with an Ika accent and inflections which is Edoid, same way we would speak any other languages with Ika accent.
[s] It's never possible for a migrating group coming to Ika area to influence the way we pronounce words. They can only introduce new words but the new words will be pronounced in the accent of the aboriginal language. If Edos were the latter migrators and settlers, we would only be having many Edo words which would be pronounced in Igbo accent but the reverse is the case here. We have Edo words pronounced with Edo accent and many Igbo words also mostly pronounced with Edo inflections. Which shows Edo language is the original language here.[/s]
Which Edo language All these Bini settlers self Edo is the name of a family of similar languages... Bini, Ishan, Kukuruku, Sobo(urhobo/isoko) and Jekri. And ika is surrounded on three sides by Edo languages... So its expected that they'd borrow,but to claim that ika was originally Edo just bkos it provided succor to your ancestors fleeing the Oba's madness is just insane.
Which Edo language All these Bini settlers self Edo is the name of a family of similar languages... Bini, Ishan, Kukuruku, Sobo(urhobo/isoko) and Jekri. And ika is surrounded on three sides by Edo languages... So its expected that they'd borrow,but to claim that ika was originally Edo just bkos it provided succor to your ancestors fleeing the Oba's madness is just insane.
now it's obvious you've officially gone nuts. You leave my points and pick just that and reply. If your selective myopia has gotten to such irredeemable stage, please don't ever quote me
Klinee: Guy take it or leave it Enuani people don't understand Ika, fact! I understand a little bit of Ika because I happen to stay close to some of them so learnt a bit of it. Did you expect an average Oko man,Okpanam man,Asaba man, okwe man,ogwashi uku man, Ushi man,Illa man,iselle Azagba man, Igbuzo man to understand Ika? ehu? come on, Impossible unless the person lived in Ika-land or maybe has a close tie with an Ika persons. Am not saying this in order to alienate the Ikas from their Enuani-anioma brothers but I say what I saw and how it is happening and you know that.
What makes this whole thing funny is because Enuani and Ika speak almost the same thing with different intonation. All Anioma groups are tonal but Ika is obviously more nasal. So those Enuani people have not had close interactions with Ika and you have the closer interactions? Please look for a different lie.
Sorry I did not see the thread. Lately I just breeze in here to read some threads and i'm out immediately.
I may not be able to tell accurately what may have occurred in the past but I can only 'guestimate' what may have happened. In my opinion, the Ika and Ukwuani are an Igbo aboriginal stock or original settlers in their areas with later migrations of settlers into the areas from the bini kingdom during its peak (many people fled this kingdom during its hey days including the Esan people and some other edoid groups), especially in the Ika area. The presence of families retaining Bini surnames in Ika land is evidence of this. However, the natives or aboriginals may have been an Igbo group that absorbed later migrations from the Bini-speaking areas. In the past, a lot of migrations occurred and people often crossed linguistic territories into new areas, settling there and adapting culturally and linguistically. In terms of numbers, the bini settlers may not have been more than the Igbo-speaking natives overall and I am sure that if DNA test is performed, it would show the ratio of Igbo vs Bini in terms of Ika ancestry. By being located very close to the Bini kingdom, Ika land was often a receiving 'port' sort of for many fleeing Bini kingdom. It also experienced substantial Bini influence in terms of Kingship style, which would be expected as two different linguistic towns living next to each other often influence the other in several subtle ways. The Binis currently use the Igbo 4 market day week system and it is Nri influence which may have gotten to Bini land through Ika town. Thus, in my opinion Ikas are an ancient Igbo bunch which assimilated several Edoid-speaking families and also influenced by Bini culture by its close proximity to Bini kingdom. This is also confirmed by the history of Ika book by an Ika elder. http://people.bu.edu/manfredi/Iduuwe.History.pdf
Ukwuani land is located close to Edo state also but further south and by its close proximity to Edoid areas assimilated several Edoid-speaking people. However, it experienced less Bini cultural influence compared to the Ika area. My opinion here also is that they are an Igbo aboriginal group with fewer Bini assimilation compared to Ika land.
Cire80: you're not being honest here. You're completely biased. Words can easily be borrowed but accent is more difficult to change. We're Ika people, we speak Igbo with an Ika accent and inflections which is Edoid, same way we would speak any other languages with Ika accent.
It's never possible for a migrating group coming to Ika area to influence the way we pronounce words. They can only introduce new words but the new words will be pronounced in the accent of the aboriginal language. If Edos were the latter migrators and settlers, we would only be having many Edo words which would be pronounced in Igbo accent but the reverse is the case here. We have Edo words pronounced with Edo accent and many Igbo words also mostly pronounced with Edo inflections. Which shows Edo language is the original language here.
If you claim Edo was the original language, how come you guys now speak Igbo? I want you to give me a cogent reason why you guys now speak Igbo instead of Edo, something that deep down you believe also.
PS: please do not start with the whole Igbo trading mantra. Before the white men came, Igbos were not known to be traders. That concept of Igbos came after British civilization.
If you claim Edo was the original language, how come you guys now speak Igbo? I want you to give me a cogent reason why you guys now speak Igbo instead of Edo, something that deep down you believe also.
PS: please do not start with the whole Igbo trading mantra. Before the white men came, Igbos were not known to be traders. That concept of Igbos came after British civilization.
You know I replied you based on your logic. Are you aware of that?
Ok. This was my response to your other quote but think this response is kinda appropriate for this as well.
've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups
Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.
Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.
And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.
Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.
Cire80: You know I replied you based on your logic. Are you aware of that?
Ok. This was my response to your other quote but think this response is kinda appropriate for this as well.
've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups
Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.
Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.
And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.
Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.
@bold...this is very wrong because you are taking current circumstances and applying it to what happened centuries ago. The concept of Igbos being travelers to distant lands started only since the coming of the british. Before then, Igbos existed in well-delineated clans of their own with no central authority. Second, there is no proof of you that you can furnish about Igbos going anywhere and renaming the place or wiping off the existing people's town name or language. That's absurd. You are trying to come up with this reason to 'buttress' ika being different but ask yourself twice if that is really true? Do you really believe that? Have you forgotten that there was no 'collective' Igbo people 400 years ago who all called themselves Igbos and were out on a mission to go colonize other lands? The ethnic consciousness of the people called Igbo started with British civilization. 100 years ago an Nnewi man would tell you he is Nnewi not Igbo, an Awka man would tell you the same too, etcetera. Also between the 1400s to 1700s, many Igbo-speaking slaves arriving the new world were shocked to get there and were called 'ebo'. Many of them admitted that they had never heard of such name back home and that their identity was the village or town which they came from. There was no 'collective Igbo' ethnic group or tribe existing several centuries ago out on a mission to colonize Ika land or non-Igbo speaking areas. That of Bonny happened by chance and the natives were also part of the reason Igbo is the mother tongue in the area (after the abolishment of slavery, thousands of Igbo slaves destined for slavery were stuck in the island, as bonny was one of the major ports from which Igbo slaves were sold. The natives felt Ibani language was sacred and made it secret language spoken only within themselves and did not teach outsiders their language but instead learned Igbo to communicate with the teeming population of Igbo slaves and settlers in the town, which led to the gradual displacement of Ibani in the town for Igbo instead. Remember that at this time, there was no ethnic consciousness or allegiance paid to any ethnic group but instead what people knew then were just languages without the concept of belonging ethnically to the people of that language) and Opobo was an outstretch of Bonny.
As for that of the missionaries bringing Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land to 'Igbonize' Ikas, it is not as simple as abc as you think. First of all, the missionaries, who happened to be whites, not Igbo, thank God, brought Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land because despite being outsiders they recognized that the people spoke and understood a speech form or dialect similar to other Igbo speakers. Recognize here that the missionaries did not care about ethnicity nor paid allegiance to any, their mission was to spread their message to everyone the fastest and easiest way that they could. However, they were faced with a daunting task being that the people under the 'Igbo-speaking' umbrella spoke way too many different dialects, many which were often unintelligible to the other and they had to come up with one dialect which they felt everyone should be able to understand. It started with the Anglican missionaries importing an Igbo dialect called 'isuama', spoken by liberated Igbo slaves in sierra leone to Igboland which failed because the 'isuama' spoken in SL happened to be a mixture of several Igbo dialects given that these liberated Igbo slaves came from different areas in Igboland. In fact, the earliest evangelical mission to Igboland in 'Isuama' dialect (resembling southern Igbo dialects, more like owerri-etche dialects etc.) failed at Aboh because the people of Aboh (Ndokwa) could not understand what was being said in 'Isuama' at first attempt (which would not be so today when Igbo speakers are more exposed to other Igbo dialects). Thus the ultimate search for a unifying Igbo dialect ensued and it is a long story from there onwards. My point is, recognize that as of 100 to 180 years ago or more when the missionaries landed in Ika land, they must have identified that the Ika people were Igbo-speaking to begin with, and thus brought Igbo-speaking priests trained in the gospel to spread the word. That's all they cared about - spreading the gospel. Anything to facilitate that, they did. This was happening at a time when Igbos were not as well travelled as today to be exposed to other dialects and speakers of Igbo dialects at opposite extremes of the Igbo language continuum were worst hit at understanding each other. If you claim Ika was only 20% Igbo as of then and probably 80% Bini, why then did the white missionaries not bring Edo-speaking priests to Ika land to preach the gospel to them? Till today I am amazed at how accurate descriptions of southern Nigerian tribes written by foreigners 400 years ago or more are even till today. Pick up any book of yore of southern Nigeria written by foreigners and you'd be amazed at how accurate they were. These foreigners were able to tell accurately which language was which and where speakers of each language started and ended (or their boundaries). So you cannot tell me that these missionaries 'made a mistake' at assuming Ika people were Igbo speakers because their accuracy as of 200 to 500 years back stand outs clearly. These missionaries did not bring Yoruba priests to Igboland did they? Why? Because they clearly knew Igboland was not Yoruba speaking. Thus, they should have brought Bini-speaking priests to Ika land if Ika was 'originally' Bini to begin with or 80% Edoid as you claimed, which history has shown severally to be false.
In every language worldwide due to the natural occurrence of several dialects, there is often a standard form which is spoken and understood by everyone and the dialects spoken locally by their speakers. Standard Igbo being spoken or used in official levels in Ika land or in other areas of Igbo land is no different from standard English spoken in the US (with so many dialects and accents spanning across north to south), or standard English spoken in the UK (with different dialects such as Manchester, Chelsea, etc.) or standard Spanish spoken in Mexico (with so many dialects and even native american languages) etc.
For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections. Let's not make things more complex than they really are. Do yourself a favour, tear a sheet of paper and write out 10 sentences in Ika dialect and compare it with Bini and Igbo and tell us which it closely resembles. The Ohafia people who live close to the Ibibio-speaking areas sometimes speak Igbo with sort of an Ibibio accent, which is expected or normal due to assimilation and inter-marriage with Ibibio people which may have occurred several centuries ago, yet Ohafia is an Igbo dialect and not Ibibio.
@bold...this is very wrong because you are taking current circumstances and applying it to what happened centuries ago. The concept of Igbos being travelers to distant lands started only since the coming of the british. Before then, Igbos existed in well-delineated clans of their own with no central authority. Second, there is no proof of you that you can furnish about Igbos going anywhere and renaming the place or wiping off the existing people's town name or language. That's absurd. You are trying to come up with this reason to 'buttress' ika being different but ask yourself twice if that is really true? Do you really believe that? Have you forgotten that there was no 'collective' Igbo people 400 years ago who all called themselves Igbos and were out on a mission to go colonize other lands? The ethnic consciousness of the people called Igbo started with British civilization. 100 years ago an Nnewi man would tell you he is Nnewi not Igbo, an Awka man would tell you the same too, etcetera. Also between the 1400s to 1700s, many Igbo-speaking slaves arriving the new world were shocked to get there and were called 'ebo'. Many of them admitted that they had never heard of such name back home and that their identity was the village or town which they came from. There was no 'collective Igbo' ethnic group or tribe existing several centuries ago out on a mission to colonize Ika land or non-Igbo speaking areas. That of Bonny happened by chance and the natives were also part of the reason Igbo is the mother tongue in the area (after the abolishment of slavery, thousands of Igbo slaves destined for slavery were stuck in the island, as bonny was one of the major ports from which Igbo slaves were sold. The natives felt Ibani language was sacred and made it secret language spoken only within themselves and did not teach outsiders their language but instead learned Igbo to communicate with the teeming population of Igbo slaves and settlers in the town, which led to the gradual displacement of Ibani in the town for Igbo instead. Remember that at this time, there was no ethnic consciousness or allegiance paid to any ethnic group but instead what people knew then were just languages without the concept of belonging ethnically to the people of that language) and Opobo was an outstretch of Bonny.
As for that of the missionaries bringing Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land to 'Igbonize' Ikas, it is not as simple as abc as you think. First of all, the missionaries, who happened to be whites, not Igbo, thank God, brought Igbo-speaking priests to Ika land because despite being outsiders they recognized that the people spoke and understood a speech form or dialect similar to other Igbo speakers. Recognize here that the missionaries did not care about ethnicity nor paid allegiance to any, their mission was to spread their message to everyone the fastest and easiest way that they could. However, they were faced with a daunting task being that the people under the 'Igbo-speaking' umbrella spoke way too many different dialects, many which were often unintelligible to the other and they had to come up with one dialect which they felt everyone should be able to understand. It started with the Anglican missionaries importing an Igbo dialect called 'isuama', spoken by liberated Igbo slaves in sierra leone to Igboland which failed because the 'isuama' spoken in SL happened to be a mixture of several Igbo dialects given that these liberated Igbo slaves came from different areas in Igboland. In fact, the earliest evangelical mission to Igboland in 'Isuama' dialect (resembling southern Igbo dialects, more like owerri-etche dialects etc.) failed at Aboh because the people of Aboh (Ndokwa) could not understand what was being said in 'Isuama' at first attempt (which would not be so today when Igbo speakers are more exposed to other Igbo dialects). Thus the ultimate search for a unifying Igbo dialect ensued and it is a long story from there onwards. My point is, recognize that as of 100 to 180 years ago or more when the missionaries landed in Ika land, they must have identified that the Ika people were Igbo-speaking to begin with, and thus brought Igbo-speaking priests trained in the gospel to spread the word. That's all they cared about - spreading the gospel. Anything to facilitate that, they did. This was happening at a time when Igbos were not as well travelled as today to be exposed to other dialects and speakers of Igbo dialects at opposite extremes of the Igbo language continuum were worst hit at understanding each other. If you claim Ika was only 20% Igbo as of then and probably 80% Bini, why then did the white missionaries not bring Edo-speaking priests to Ika land to preach the gospel to them? Till today I am amazed at how accurate descriptions of southern Nigerian tribes written by foreigners 400 years ago or more are even till today. Pick up any book of yore of southern Nigeria written by foreigners and you'd be amazed at how accurate they were. These foreigners were able to tell accurately which language was which and where speakers of each language started and ended (or their boundaries). So you cannot tell me that these missionaries 'made a mistake' at assuming Ika people were Igbo speakers because their accuracy as of 200 to 500 years back stand outs clearly. These missionaries did not bring Yoruba priests to Igboland did they? Why? Because they clearly knew Igboland was not Yoruba speaking. Thus, they should have brought Bini-speaking priests to Ika land if Ika was 'originally' Bini to begin with or 80% Edoid as you claimed, which history has shown severally to be false.
In every language worldwide due to the natural occurrence of several dialects, there is often a standard form which is spoken and understood by everyone and the dialects spoken locally by their speakers. Standard Igbo being spoken or used in official levels in Ika land or in other areas of Igbo land is no different from standard English spoken in the US (with so many dialects and accents spanning across north to south), or standard English spoken in the UK (with different dialects such as Manchester, Chelsea, etc.) or standard Spanish spoken in Mexico (with so many dialects and even native american languages) etc.
For what is is, Ika is simply an Igbo dialect with Bini loan words and sometimes Bini inflections. Let's not make things more complex than they really are. Do yourself a favour, tear a sheet of paper and write out 10 sentences in Ika dialect and compare it with Bini and Igbo and tell us which it closely resembles. The Ohafia people who live close to the Ibibio-speaking areas sometimes speak Igbo with sort of an Ibibio accent, which is expected or normal due to assimilation and inter-marriage with Ibibio people which may have occurred several centuries ago, yet Ohafia is an Igbo dialect and not Ibibio.
That there was no ethnic consciousness doesn't mean that majority of the SE if not all were already Igbo speaking about half millenia ago and these people go out and do business. They interact and trade. And the present Igbo population shows that Igbos have always had high population so all these interactions are in high numbers. They exhibit those traits I talked about because I don't believe they only picked that up after the colonials arrived. These Igbo groups, in whatever name they moved by migrate to places, probably in high number and another group come in from another part of Igboland in different batches. There are only a few Edo groups during this period, it's only at latter period that groups like Esans and other groups sprang up. but there has been so many Igbo groups that. It's possible this groups come into Anioma with their peculiar Igbo language and culture and influence us. All these happens within a very long period of time.
Read my post well, I said I've always admitted that Igbo words has been existing in Ika but it should be around 20% about 3 centuries ago and probably a little more when the colonials got to Ika and it was this little similarities they laid hold on and imposed Igbo on us. Even some Binis say Yoruba and Igbo was imposed on them. I don't know how true that is. Ika language is not only about Edo and Igbo. There are many indigenous words formed over time just like Urhobos and Isoko developed many indigenous words away from Edo. And if true that alien groups were imposed on Edo, how do you think the British would ever consider Edo people to take charge in Ika? Most early missionaries were of Igbo stock so there was no way Edo would be considered when they're lacking in Edo then even if Edo was intelligible to Ikas during that period
Cire80: That there was no ethnic consciousness doesn't mean that majority of the SE if not all were already Igbo speaking about half millenia ago and these people go out and do business. They interact and trade. And the present Igbo population shows that Igbos have always had high population so all these interactions are in high numbers. They exhibit those traits I talked about because I don't believe they only picked that up after the colonials arrived. These Igbo groups, in whatever name they moved by migrate to places, probably in high number and another group come in from another part of Igboland in different batches. There are only a few Edo groups during this period, it's only at latter period that groups like Esans and other groups sprang up. but there has been so many Igbo groups that. It's possible this groups come into Anioma with their peculiar Igbo language and culture and influence us. All these happens within a very long period of time.
Read my post well, I said I've always admitted that Igbo words has been existing in Ika but it should be around 20% about 3 centuries ago and probably a little more when the colonials got to Ika and it was this little similarities they laid hold on and imposed Igbo on us. Even some Binis say Yoruba and Igbo was imposed on them. I don't know how true that is. Ika language is not only about Edo and Igbo. There are many indigenous words formed over time just like Urhobos and Isoko developed many indigenous words away from Edo. And if true that alien groups were imposed on Edo, how do you think the British would ever consider Edo people to take charge in Ika? Most early missionaries were of Igbo stock so there was no way Edo would be considered when they're lacking in Edo then even if Edo was intelligible to Ikas during that period
True. Ezza say "Gunu", Orumba in Anambra say "Nnu", Like you already pointed out, Owerri( Oratta) say "Nini", Ikwere say "Kini", these things vary from place to place in the Igbo dialect continuum.
Ezaa people will say "Bia ikaa" Orumba will say "Bia kan" Nkanu will say "Bia Weehu/Nowa"
"Ikaa", "Weehu/Nowa" and "Kan", meaning HERE, yet "Ebea" was chosen as central Igbo, which all of them use when communicating with Igbos not from their own parts of Igboland.
We from Orumba use either of these two- gunu and nnu.
Abagworo: Igbo n'asu n'olu n'olu is the key to appreciating our diverse ways of speech and every Igbo speaker must strive to learn and communicate with more popular Igbo dialects like Onitsha or Umuahia and of course the hybrid Igbo which everyone understands. If we go about communicating in our specific dialects then Igbo language becomes difficult.
One of the rare times I agree with you. We all must strive to speak one of the most popular of Igbo dialects and not rigidly stick to our individual dialects. That would be an exercise in futility.
Cire80: You know I replied you based on your logic. Are you aware of that?
Ok. This was my response to your other quote but think this response is kinda appropriate for this as well.
've always admitted that Igbo name and Igbo language has been existing in Ika land for a few centuries which suggests there must have been some unrecorded Igbo migration into Ika land. My problem with you guys is making bogus speculations and going to the extent of fabricating and concocting non existing history. We Ika people know our history. You don't come to our land and tell us we're settlers and should vacate our ancestral land. This is the height of insolence. This attitude is the reason Igbo is hated today by every other groups
Back to your question. The percentage of Igbo names and words in Ika is very minimal. It not up to 20% about 3 centuries ago. There are many factors responsible for the encroachment of Igbo language into Ika and one of them is the Colonial masters and Christianity. The Colonial masters imposed Igbo on us - Even the Edos said Igbo and Yoruba was imposed on them though I don't know how it happened. Our ancestors were thought Igbo and Igbo language was used in churches and courts and many other places. Many people today can't pray in Ika language except in Igbo language. Even I can't say "Our Lord's Prayer" in Ika because I was thought that in Igbo. Churches like Catholic, Baptist, Anglican, even Cherubim and many other churches do all their recitals in Igbo and it's the norm to try to pray in Igbo language. Igbo was like the Latin of Ika churches still existing till date.
Another factor is the population of Igbo speakers. Igbos are existing in 5 States and these 5States States have little amount of non Igbos in them. The Igbo States are mostly populated by Igbo people which shows the Igbos have always had a very high population. Inspite of Igbos populating 5 States, there is no where you go to without seeing a high number of Igbos. You guys are everywhere. Some years back when I was in Abuja, I sometimes wonder if Abuja is turning into Igbo land. All the taxi, molue and even El rufai drivers are Igbo. Wherever you go to, they speak Igbo to you as if it's the new lingua franca of Nigeria. If you reply in English, you see a great shock on their face. Same thing with Lagos. Even outside of Nigeria, Igbos are everywhere in large numbers.
And wherever Igbos are large number, they invade and occupy and make that place their home. No intention of going back home. After that, they start looking for ways to rename the place and Igbonize it. If they see for instance, a place called Ife for instance, they wouldn't call it Ife but they will call it a name like Ifeyinwa, and concoct a story of how a certain Ifeyinwa is the founder of that place. And if Igbos are there in large numbers or if this place is close to Igboland, this name and story will stuck wiping away the original name and history. They also do this for people's name and words. I'm talking from experience and observations.
Another way Igbos influence others is the media including movies, and music (especially gospel music) and other means. I can go on and on.
Lol. This one don loss kpatakpata. Chai! Na so your igbophobia reach?
Igboid: Most Igbos woul say Nke ya for his own but we in Anioma say Nke e. Nke gi is Nkeiii in Anioma.
This is same in Idemili.
I have heard Ika before, it doesn't sound this way, including Ukwuani/Ndokwa. Only Enu-ani sound this way. Only Enu-ani speaking Ika people like Igbodo sound that way too.
That's central Igbo, do you mind what other Igbo tribes call it?
agadez007: twas you dat said u aniomas say ki do or ki ro while easterners say Ogini,dats wat am trying to correct,owerri people speak nini not gini
Easterners have what they call it in their different dialects, you claimed to know the Easterners don't have the same language all but you still play Anioma vs Easterners
