LadunaI:


Nice right up bro! You indeed have a very rare spiritual aptitudes and that's blessing if channel properly.

@ikupatiku has succinctly put you in right direction by pointing out the need for you to increases your TAQWA. And I think not only you but every conscious Muslims.

I have benefited from your anecdotes, and reading your experiences has been sort of re awakening on my part. The truth of the matter is that some may find this extremely difficult to grasp, because is like trying to explain the beauty of a rose to a someone with impaired eyes.

Pls keep this coming, it been really gratifying stories coming at the time when such spiritual matters is of little Import to many.

Tnx brother, it's a tough task keeping it secret from close friends, I think here is where I can freely share it an let it out my chest,

I have plenty of experiences to share, an I will wen I have time, mansha Allah

ikupakuti:


You got me laughing here.

Its not of trial or anything sort of...but then some information must remain classified.

What i‘ll say is, being a mystic, i once took a course (to GOD) through a certain epithet of his, especially attributed to the station (maqam) of sayyidina jubreel (a s) (since spiritual beings serve the names and epithets of GOD in hierarchical order ).

It was while at it.. which is quite normal or let me say excpected.

I hope this suffices.

No doubt, the way and manner you sounded in your up posts showed somewhat how adept you are in this field. Tapping from your fountain of knowledge in this regard would be highly welcomed.

@empiree has been doing great justice to these things with back up evidences from Quran and sunnah regarding this filed of ihsan, but constant rejoinder to detractors wouldn't allow him to get deep into the matter.

Please as much as agreed with you that some information as to be classified, so do I believe you need you to declassify some for the edifying and spiritual upliftment of many. As Imam Ghazali rightly pointed out in his short treatise; Deliverance from Error.

Can you please give some general principles regarding this spiritual realms? And share some of your experiences with these planes so that we can all benefit from it.

Thanks.

LadunaI:


No doubt, the way and manner you sounded in your up posts showed somewhat how adept you are in this field. Tapping from your fountain of knowledge in this regard would be highly welcomed.

@empiree has been doing great justice to these things with back up evidences from Quran and sunnah regarding this filed of ihsan, but constant rejoinder to detractors wouldn't allow him to get deep into the matter.

Please as much as agreed with you that some information as to be classified, so do I believe you need you to declassify some for the edifying and spiritual upliftment of many. As Imam Ghazali rightly pointed out in his short treatise; Deliverance from Error.

Can you please give some general principles regarding this spiritual realms? And share some of your experiences with these planes so that we can all benefit from it.

Thanks.

I totally agree with u. @ emekaraj,my husband wants to get in touch with u. How can he do that. Jazakallahu khairan

LadunaI:


No doubt, the way and manner you sounded in your up posts showed somewhat how adept you are in this field. Tapping from your fountain of knowledge in this regard would be highly welcomed.

@empiree has been doing great justice to these things with back up evidences from Quran and sunnah regarding this filed of ihsan, but constant rejoinder to detractors wouldn't allow him to get deep into the matter.

Please as much as agreed with you that some information as to be classified, so do I believe you need you to declassify some for the edifying and spiritual upliftment of many. As Imam Ghazali rightly pointed out in his short treatise; Deliverance from Error.

Can you please give some general principles regarding this spiritual realms? And share some of your experiences with these planes so that we can all benefit from it.

Thanks.

Thank you,

As you may have already know, supernormal plane of experiencies that come with mysticism can only be understood by like minds even with backup evidencies from the quran & the hadiths, since its strictly for the elites & moreover, strength of individuals breakthrough (fath) will always differ.

By the way, i‘m a Tijjanyyi mystic.

I‘ll like our discourse to be in an interactive manner so that we may both benefit from one another.

ikupakuti:


Thank you,

As you may have already know, supernormal plane of experiencies that come with mysticism can only be understood by like minds even with backup evidencies from the quran & the hadiths, since its strictly for the elites & moreover, strength of individuals breakthrough (fath) will always differ.

By the way, i‘m a Tijjanyyi mystic.

I‘ll like our discourse to be in an interactive manner so that we may both benefit from one another.

Excellent! We can beginning to share experiences corroboratively for deeper understanding learning from our collective experiences.

You're quite right that such experiences can only be understood by like minds.

I remembered during my sophomore year of my undergrad study more than 15 years ago. I got a book in our library; Imaginary Muslims by Julian. I can barely understood a page there talkless of many spiritual experiences of early Muslims narrated in the book. But thank God, during my last year in school, I can relate vividly well with many pages of the book and appreciate the text therein better.

Now coming to the real gist, most of experiences have been reading as to do mostly with Alama Mitha (world of allegory) perhaps plane between nasut and malakut. @emakaraj experiences offer another dimension "new" to me, though not totally outlandish.

Can you share more on the remain worlds jabarut, lasut and hahut, and relate that with @emekaraj experiences for better understanding of these planes.

Also what would you say about uwaysis phenomenon?

@Laduna1

I get you quite well, but, you see, for us to fully understand the spectrum of the essence of God (zaati), its structure & mechanics, one has to fully grasp the concept of spacetime (but not as depicted by western scientists & the philosophers) thoroughly, ability to differentiate btween alaml khalq & alaml ‘amr and then alaml sirri.

Now, whats your take or understanding concerning the concept of spacetime ?

The uwasii phenomenom is not really a phenomenom per se, since its common to all individuals (afraad), thats to say every fard has a direct live channel to God, which is not really direct anyway in the sense that hierarchy must still be respected...there is always an isthmus...there‘ll always be a veil.

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

I get you quite well, but, you see, for us to fully understand the spectrum of the essence of God (zaati), its structure & mechanics, one has to fully grasp the concept of spacetime (but not as depicted by western scientists & the philosophers) thoroughly, ability to differentiate btween alaml khalq & alaml ‘amr and then alaml sirri.

Now, whats your take or understanding concerning the concept of spacetime ?

The uwasii phenomenom is not really a phenomenom per se, since its common to all individuals (afraad), thats to say every fard has a direct live channel to God, which is not really direct anyway in the sense that hierarchy must still be respected...there is always an isthmus...there‘ll always be a veil.

Thanks brother for this.

Firstly, as much I known we can draw a similarities between spiritual and physical, so am quite agree with you.

However, from my limited understanding of spacetime concept. It has to do with unification of space and time into a single entity known as Mikonski space. This offer better understanding in describing any events in the universe.

This is similar to promulgation of Maxwell's equation of electromagnetic field that combined electric and magnetic field. The culmination of this similar approach is Standard Model with breakthrough discovery of Higgs Bosson some few years ago.

But with all this preambles, what I can deduced from it is that the concept of spacetime is extremely RELATIVE as it been explain by Einstein in his theory if relativity. That, Time and Space are not real the way we perceived it.

A classical example of this is three years space travel back to earth at a speed of light, would have been equivalent to say thirty year on earth. Now this point lend a very good support to what prophet (saw) said that: men are dreaming now, they wake up when they died.Sorry for long epistle.

As far as alaml khaq and Alaml amr is concern. I think the former as to do with cause and effect world I.e. physical woeld, while the later, world of command i.e is pertaining to world of spirit. This is my understanding of these issues.

With regards to uwaysis phenomenon you've broaden my knowledge with your explanation, but am referring to non physical guide (murshid), yet people receiving instructions from previous prophet and awliyah.

Thanks

@Laduna1

You see, most times we tend to employ terminologies & classifications just for comprehension porposes only.

Thats part of what differentiates science from the arts.

Science deals more with reality (haqeeqah) and arts is more inclined towards norms.

Let me use an analogy here, under what we presume as “white light“, cinnamon appears reddish, but under blue light it appears black e.t.c

...now what is the actual colour of cinnamon ?

While arts percieves akara & moi moi as different entities, when science takes a look, all it sees is beans, cos thats there origin (haqeeqah).

Reason for all these is I want us to understand that those we call spirits are not actually spirits.

An entity of a higher sphere percieves those of lower spheres as gross while those of lower sphere percieve the higher ones as spiritual.

E.g, we humans consider the rohanoyyun as spirits but the angels above them percieve them as gross, cos the higher you go the more volatile it gets, the lower, the denser.

Now, to the concept of spacetime (alzaman w-almakan), today‘s scientists are yet to fully grasp its idea.

Their failure stems from their quest to desect space from time & define each on its own.

They maintained that space has 3 dimensions & time 1 dimension--- (3:1).

But the truth of the matter (God willing) is there is no difference between both.

Time is the core (invisible part) of space, the “spirit“ that powers space in all its 3 dimensions & its not 1 dimensional as they thought.

The actual meaning of time is the acts (if‘aal) in space, without if‘aal there‘ll never be time.

Space gives meaning to time and helps in comprehending what it stands for, without space, time‘ll never be percieved.....typin

....the theory of relativity (sirri nasab) that you cited and how it explains time dilations, is already treated in the Quran.

I was thinking you‘ll expound your thesis from the Quran.

Modern scientists excluded God from their equation and disregarded revelation, thats why they spend (waste) decades & billions of dollars on simple discoveries out of arrogance.

Those vs. that talked about a day measuring a 1000, 50000 yrs e.t.c, those are the keys to unlock the phenomenon called (spacetime) which is another definition for alaml khalq.

Now, whats your understanding from them?

ikupakuti:
....the theory of relativity (sirri nasab) that you cited and how it explains time dilations, is already treated in the Quran.

I was thinking you‘ll expound your thesis from the Quran.

Modern scientists excluded God from their equation and disregarded revelation, thats why they spend (waste) decades & billions of dollars on simple discoveries out of arrogance.

Those vs. that talked about a day measuring a 1000, 50000 yrs e.t.c, those are the keys to unlock the phenomenon called (spacetime) which is another definition for alaml khalq.

Now, whats your understanding from them?

Science are are still studying metaphysics, the reason many scientist exclude God from their research and discoveries is because there are over thousands of Gods with different character and attributes and they haven't seen any evidence of God, since God is a spirit being how do you want science to study God? God exist in unique way and some scientists, philosophers have relate(or try to relate) God with the universe including space and time.

In science, there is nothing like "simple" discovery, the meaning of science is broad, science deals with discoveries, experiments and theories while religion is base on faith.

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

You see, most times we tend to employ terminologies & classifications just for comprehension porposes only.

Thats part of what differentiates science from the arts.

Science deals more with reality (haqeeqah) and arts is more inclined towards norms.

Let me use an analogy here, under what we presume as “white light“, cinnamon appears reddish, but under blue light it appears black e.t.c

...now what is the actual colour of cinnamon ?

While arts percieves akara & moi moi as different entities, when science takes a look, all it sees is beans, cos thats there origin (haqeeqah).

Reason for all these is I want us to understand that those we call spirits are not actually spirits.

An entity of a higher sphere percieves those of lower spheres as gross while those of lower sphere percieve the higher ones as spiritual.

E.g, we humans consider the rohanoyyun as spirits but the angels above them percieve them as gross, cos the higher you go the more volatile it gets, the lower, the denser.

Uhmm, quite educative. I like the analogy you make to substantiate your assertion. But, this area is very subjective and one understanding is mostly based on individual spiritual level or maqama as you rightly said before. I can grasped the idea now though.

ikupakuti:

Now, to the concept of spacetime (alzaman w-almakan), today‘s scientists are yet to fully grasp its idea.

Their failure stems from their quest to desect space from time & define each on its own.

They maintained that space has 3 dimensions & time 1 dimension--- (3:1).

But the truth of the matter (God willing) is there is no difference between both.

Time is the core (invisible part) of space, the “spirit“ that powers space in all its 3 dimensions & its not 1 dimensional as they thought.

The actual meaning of time is the acts (if‘aal) in space, without if‘aal there‘ll never be time.

Space gives meaning to time and helps in comprehending what it stands for, without space, time‘ll never be percieved.....typin

Well, the concept of spacetime has married the two concept already, taking Time as the fourth dimension. And that seems to agree with your analogy of taking Time as "spirit" that power space.

I believe all these concept has already been explained in the Quran , science we always confirm the Quranic truth now or in the future.

ikupakuti:
....the theory of relativity (sirri nasab) that you cited and how it explains time dilations, is already treated in the Quran.

I was thinking you‘ll expound your thesis from the Quran.

Modern scientists excluded God from their equation and disregarded revelation, thats why they spend (waste) decades & billions of dollars on simple discoveries out of arrogance.

Those vs. that talked about a day measuring a 1000, 50000 yrs e.t.c, those are the keys to unlock the phenomenon called (spacetime) which is another definition for alaml khalq.

Now, whats your understanding from them?

I am not comparing science and Quranic verses, hence don't seems to explain relativity from Qur'an ic perspective. But rather use it to explain the limitation of spacetime through time dilation and space "warp".

How many Qur'anic predictions that science are just discovery or yet to discover? Many! from big bang to embryonic descriptions and many more.

I believed any day and anytime true scientific discovery will always confirm the Quranic messages, though as you rightly said earlier their arrogance might seems to be blocking their view in factoring God into their equations.

Now, based on your ealier analogy you make i.e the way we perceived higher being, does this means that the concept of ruh and nafs can be taken as ONE? does this thing means the true essence of all created beings?

@Laduna1

Sorry for my absence,

Why i maintained that our discourse must be from the Quranic perspective is just to guarantee accuracy, seeing that the word of God is infallible, scientists have been amending/modifying theories for long (most of which are postulations anyway) & they‘ll still continue to for obvious reasons.

Yes, the concept of the body, ruh & nafs are one, nay of all things created. (may be i‘ll expatiate on them with an analogy if need be).

All fractals of creation (alaml khalq) obey the same set of natural laws both in classical & quantum, just a little twearkin here & there between realms/fields (hadarat).

And you should know that all things created from the zenith of al arsh (which seals alamal khalq) to the core/most dense part of the universe are made up of atoms.

***the notion of seperating science from the quran/religion/revelations is very wrong, all fields of knowledge are imbedded therein (Q. 44:4~5 , 6:38). That we‘ve not been able to expound from it does not negate that fact.

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

Sorry for my absence,

Why i maintained that our discourse must be from the Quranic perspective is just to guarantee accuracy, seeing that the word of God is infallible, scientists have been amending/modifying theories for long (most of which are postulations anyway) & they‘ll still continue to for obvious reasons.

Yes, the concept of the body, ruh & nafs are one, nay of all things created. (may be i‘ll expatiate on them with an analogy if need be).

All fractals of creation (alaml khalq) obey the same set of natural laws both in classical & quantum, just a little twearkin here & there between realms/fields (hadarat).

And you should know that all things created from the zenith of al arsh (which seals alamal khalq) to the core/most dense part of the universe are made up of atoms.

***the notion of seperating science from the quran/religion/revelations is very wrong, all fields of knowledge are imbedded therein (Q. 44:4~5 , 6:38). That we‘ve not been able to expound from it does not negate that fact.

This is interesting. Initially, I wanted to ask how is it possible to describe the al-arsh and all what its encapsulated down to the lowest heaven as consists of atom.

Then I realized that if Angel were created from light as stated in hadith. And from quantum Physics, we understood light are essentially made of photon, which in turn is a sort of electromagnetic wave, and of course these are particles ( wave = particles and vice versa). This brings us to the idea of atom constituents from electron, neutron and proton, down to quark, bosons etc.

And has we all known, these sub atomic elements are essentially particles. Hence, I see why you arrived at that assertion that all creature within Alam Khalq are made from atom. Hope am right?

Now, let move to Alam Amr, which I believed to be anything above all these preceding discussion.

I think this should be Allah's names and attributes with their transcendence manifestations in all the planes. Is that?

emekaRaj:
Something happened last year, I was walking with my wife around 8pm, we were supposed to cross the road to the other side walk, wen we r trying to cross, I saw like seven men chasing after a Comercial car, so I thought I should wait let them pass b4 we cross, but my wife was dragging me, telling me "lets cross the road is empty" I was like let dem pass first, then they were in our front, she was like "who"? That's wen I realized that wat I was seeing r invisible beings (jinn).

So one of them in front (like d leader or so) notice dat i saw him, an then they turn back an start coming to me, I told my wife dat we shouldn't cross again let's find somewhere to sit, I dnt knw wats about to happen because I was still a novice then but I knw I can't run, becoz it's nt a dream it's live ppl r everywhere going about their normal business so if i run I will look like a mad man, even if i wnt to run, they hav like electric speed, so I braced up, told my wife to hold my hand, so we sat an they ascend to where we r sitting, I can feel her hands shaking tremendously in fear nt knowing wats about to happen. They came and we talk, an I found out that they are Muslims.

They said why r u looking at us? I said I was just going about my business ,they ask if my wife can see them I said no, one of them look deep into her eyes to cross check, meanwhile she didn't know wats happening she was just reciting Quran like I ask her to do, and d leader was like look how u abort our mission now, I started gathering courage and I ask, who are u ppl chasing he said, the man in the car ,he told me Wat the man did to him, story short that the man hurt him and he wants to hurt him back.

I ask if he's religious he said he said they are all Muslims I said why dnt u leave it in Allah's (swt) hands, one of them interrupt and said thats the same thing we told him oo, I started preaching dnt even know were it was coming from. They showed me grt respect and accepted my advice and I can still see the shocked in their face that a human can see them, one of them said hop u dnt think we r bad ppl try to kill someone. I said no I understand it's anger, all this while we r talking they were just floating in the air their didn't touch the ground, it was scary as is my first of seeing them in broad daylight.
So they started praying for me and thanking me for helping their brother, one of them said if nt for me he (their brother) would have gone astray, that their is nothing they have nt told him to forget the issue. They offered to ascort me home, praying that I will never come in contact with evil spirits.

Ehhh bro @emekaraj, where are thou ? I'm a bit curious when I was going thru the above post again.

If I may ask, which language are you conversing with, with those jinns?

You should be updating us steadily now, so that we can be having active and roboust discussions, as @ikupakuti and @empiree are there for us to moderate effectively.

Thanks

@Laduna1

Yes, you are absolutely right.

Alamal amr (realm of force) is the principality of the names & epithets of God, there importances, consequences, ideas & there forces which brought alamal khalq into existence...the first of which is the throne.

Every single atom/particle/entity has a high name vernacular to alamal amr, that is crucial to its existence.

That name encompasses all its infos,bio-datas, itinerary, fate e.t.c in this world & the next.

Loooools...@ what language?
Can you tell us which language you use in dreamland...lols

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

Yes, you are absolutely right.

Alamal amr (realm of force) is the principality of the names & epithets of God, there importances, consequences, ideas & there forces which brought alamal khalq into existence...the first of which is the throne.

Every single atom/particle/entity has a high name vernacular to alamal amr, that is crucial to its existence.

That name encompasses all its infos,bio-datas, itinerary, fate e.t.c in this world & the next.

Ok ...I got you.

Please can you explain further your last paragraph, perhaps with example, or sort of illustration for better understanding.

Thanks

ikupakuti:
Loooools...@ what language?

Can you tell us which language you use in dreamland...lols

Lols...its kinda funny, but honestly I just feel like try to know more because a really that experience @emekaraj describing somehow "unique".

Why? because, unlike vision or dream in which there is partial suspension of five sense, this seems to me, he was active both with his spiritual and physical senses.

Of course one communicate in ones native language must time in dream or vision.

That experience he was describing is more than 'shell' were ruh leaves the body temporarily.

LadunaI:


Ok ...I got you.

Please can you explain further your last paragraph, perhaps with example, or sort of illustration for better understanding.

Thanks

Its just like the way the internet network system works, where every node has a link to the central hub, that is how every entity (created) is connected through multiple links (between realm) to its high name in alama amr (uncreated & eternity) & then to alama sirri~hahut (pre-existence).

### Creation always starts with concept/idea & the force that powers it, then gets executed by the word (name) which is encrypted as كن which then brings it into existence.

Quran 36:82 explains this better.

## Note that the state of virtues in alamal amr are always in present perfect.

## The cunjuction of the “kaf“ & the “nun“ the effect of which begets creation differ from from realm to realm & must not be assumed literarily.

## The minute details of these falls into what is termed as سر الربوبية ( the ineffable divine secret).

The holy Prophet has warned that divulging such is tantamount to kufr.

“ إفشاء سر الربوبية كفر “

#

ikupakuti:


Its just like the way the internet network system works, where every node has a link to the central hub, that is how every entity (created) is connected through multiple links (between realm) to its high name in alama amr (uncreated & eternity) & then to alama sirri~hahut (pre-existence).

### Creation always starts with concept/idea & the force that powers it, then gets executed by the word (name) which is encrypted as كن which then brings it into existence.

Quran 36:82 explains this better.

## Note that the state of virtues in alamal amr are always in present perfect.

## The cunjuction of the “kaf“ & the “nun“ the effect of which begets creation differ from from realm to realm & must not be assumed literarily.

## The minute details of these falls into what is termed as سر الربوبية ( the ineffable divine secret).

The holy Prophet has warned that divulging such is tantamount to kufr.

“ إفشاء سر الربوبية كفر “

#

Many thanks bro. I have been trying as much to have deep meditation on your above thought provoking explanation looking at relevant Qur'anic verses.

However, as much as this seems like "theory", I know this can be experienced, where these concepts would be fully grasped.

I wouldn't like to probe further on this based on caveat in your last paragraph.

So what would you say about alamal sirr - hahut?

Thanks

@Laduna1

The Hahut - the core of the invariable nature of Divinity, being of the absolute altitude, (where non-existence “exists“ in perpetual absenteeism) - is dubbed as the realm of obliteration & of obscurity.

Given the fact that it is unprocurable save for periodic accessibility by a single person @ a particular time, the constituents of its essence, properties e.t.c are almost unobtainable talkless of firsthand expiriences, even to the elites.

##Almaktoom, the seal of saintdom (rta), said in ~Jawahir~ in respect to the rep. of that realm (in an official capacity), that should the multitude of elites of a particular time be substituted with the “officer“ in thus capacity, they‘ll all go into extinction in less than a blink in time!

...But from my sulook in ismul a‘zam, being its closest identity (given its proximity), by studying its algorithms & its law of relativism, if i should sum up all i‘d deduced in respect to that realm with one word...it‘ll be -ASININITY--- pure senselessness.

Slm.




## Note: Time is no fourth dimension of spacetime. Those proposing that assumption cannot table one tangible & convincing explanation like they would if it were space only.

Time flows with space in whatever direction the latter flows albeit in an incognito mode.

Sorry brothers. Se.un sent me to his NL jail in soletary confinement for about 2 weeks. Now im back

Everything here is purely confusing.

Raintaker:
Everything here is purely confusing.

The thing is they are delusional but I'm learning new things on metaphysics here, its good learn.

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

The Hahut - the core of the invariable nature of Divinity, being of the absolute altitude, (where non-existence “exists“ in perpetual absenteeism) - is dubbed as the realm of obliteration & of obscurity.

Given the fact that it is unprocurable save for periodic accessibility by a single person @ a particular time, the constituents of its essence, properties e.t.c are almost unobtainable talkless of firsthand expiriences, even to the elites.

##Almaktoom, the seal of saintdom (rta), said in ~Jawahir~ in respect to the rep. of that realm (in an official capacity), that should the multitude of elites of a particular time be substituted with the “officer“ in thus capacity, they‘ll all go into extinction in less than a blink in time!

...But from my sulook in ismul a‘zam, being its closest identity (given its proximity), by studying its algorithms & its law of relativism, if i should sum up all i‘d deduced in respect to that realm with one word...it‘ll be -ASININITY--- pure senselessness.

Slm.




## Note: Time is no fourth dimension of spacetime. Those proposing that assumption cannot table one tangible & convincing explanation like they would if it were space only.

Time flows with space in whatever direction the latter flows albeit in an incognito mode.

Interesting!!! One's spiritual senses can be easily ignited with your eloquence of presentation of these realms.

Having discuss the general overview of these realms. Let talk about himma and the necessary actions require to navigate this terrain.

I hope you wouldn't hesitate to dish out your practical experiences with these realms, in form of narration similar to @emekarag stories, for deeper understanding to connect the dots.

Thanks

@Laduna1

You sabi probe ooo...lols

Well, lets take the himma aspect from your end...

#1 - As a practicing mystic, what other esoteric part of the natural sciences affiliated to mysticism have you explored ? Numerology (awfaq, science of huruf, abjd) astrology/astronomy, alchemy, logic, cosmology e.t.c. ? Your experiences so far ?

#2 - “Spiritual“ gifts/endowments/prodigies resultant from your endevours, be they in form of ISMs, FORMULAS, SPECIAL METHODS, GRACE, TASAARIF e.t.c ?

#3 - Have you heard/experimented with JAFRI ? Coz all i got from my shia friends are stories & more stories ...no show, maybe @albaqir can help, though the 13th century scholar, USTAZ AHMAD AL-BUNI (ra), wrote a treaties on it in his famous book (SHAMSI-L-MA‘ARIF AL-KUBRA) @Empiree, got an idea ? The methods of extraction & permutation he supplied are not straight foward @all...i hate it when formulas are not clear cut, same thing with todays astrology. All he kept repeating are details of tribes & empires of the jinns, though its been long i read it.

#4 - Have you got any idea about -MYSTICAL ASTROLOGY-? (not the sham being paraded by them al-tukhee & his predecessors nor the western & eastern version). Imam IBN AL-ARABI (ra) wrote a book on it titled-- (MYSTICAL ASTROLOGY), learnt the original arabic copy is lost. Some european guy translated it to english. Have you any idea about it ?

Thanks.

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1

You sabi probe ooo...lols

Well, lets take the himma aspect from your end...

#1 - As a practicing mystic, what other esoteric part of the natural sciences affiliated to mysticism have you explored ? Numerology (awfaq, science of huruf, abjd) astrology/astronomy, alchemy, logic, cosmology e.t.c. ? Your experiences so far ?

#2 - “Spiritual“ gifts/endowments/prodigies resultant from your endevours, be they in form of ISMs, FORMULAS, SPECIAL METHODS, GRACE, TASAARIF e.t.c ?

#3 - Have you heard/experimented with JAFRI ? Coz all i got from my shia friends are stories & more stories ...no show, maybe @albaqir can help, though the 13th century scholar, USTAZ AHMAD AL-BUNI (ra), wrote a treaties on it in his famous book (SHAMSI-L-MA‘ARIF AL-KUBRA) @Empiree, got an idea ? The methods of extraction & permutation he supplied are not straight foward @all...i hate it when formulas are not clear cut, same thing with todays astrology. All he kept repeating are details of tribes & empires of the jinns, though its been long i read it.

#4 - Have you got any idea about -MYSTICAL ASTROLOGY-? (not the sham being paraded by them al-tukhee & his predecessors nor the western & eastern version). Imam IBN AL-ARABI (ra) wrote a book on it titled-- (MYSTICAL ASTROLOGY), learnt the original arabic copy is lost. Some european guy translated it to english. Have you any idea about it ?

Thanks.

Uhmm, what a novice like me what to say in his sheikh presence? ...lol

As for the himma, am particular of how the various varying spiritual aspirations can be monitored for optimal timing for khawal/itkaf. What constitutes its longing, and how can one really amplify such aspirations so that one feeling or need become naught save HIS NEARNESS!

#1 - Actually is only astronomy and cosmology I have explored to some extent and bit of their spiritual analogous. Though read some numerology (mathematica) as it applied to some Quranic verses and words. And am researching logic aspect now especially as it applicable in explaining OCCASIONALLISM; the concept have profound impact on me now. As for astrology I stay complete out of it. I believe none heavenly body have any sort of control on mankind.

#2- Well I have had fair share of these gifts -Alhamdullilah, in form of ISMs and Dua most resemble Quranic verses. And it it has been such a gratifying experience thus far!. And some unanticipated DIVINE GRACE, though after severe "trial" I would say. What do you mean by TASARIF?

#3 - No, don't have experience with JAFRI. Only that I read interpretation of dreams as echoed by Imam Jafar Al Sadiq.

#4- Like I said earlier don't go into detail of any thing related to astrology. Though, I read about Imam IBN ARABI, dubbed as one of greatest Sufi theorist. From Bezel of Wisdom to his spiritual night journey etc, but never come across his mystical astrology.

Thanks

Empiree:
Sorry brothers. Se.un sent me to his jail cell in soletary confinement for about 2 weeks. Now in back

You welcome back @empiree. I hope Se.un hasn't send @emekaraj to same solitary confinement. Lols

what's your take? you've been silent lately.

@Laduna1,

Loools @ sheikh & novice, i‘m just kuti & no sheikh abeg,

This your submission “ I believe no heavenly body has any sort of control on mankind“ just weaken me completely! Wallahi

I hope you‘ve not being listening to those modern muslims, who always try to align their thougths with that of the west or maybe you assumed the counterfeit being paraded today ?

# Do you believe God does things through agency?

# You mentioned causality (cause & effect), do you really grasp its concept ?

# Can we really analyze the network of relativism on macrocosmic level without “them“ in the equation ?

# Menstral circle of women, ocean tides, stablization of revolutions & orbits, fasting, hajj, energy, light, regulation of time, crops, harvests, weather, angels monitoring & regulating acts, the macrocosm universe, planets being the cusor of time ? What else is “control“ ?

# Do you really think a mystic of ibn AL-ARABI (r.a) calibre would treat an unworthy subject ?

# Or are you just applying taqiyya...lols

You see, this is a public forum & we are talking esoterics here, else i‘d have tabled some stupendous facts from the Quran (@ quantum levels) that‘ll leave you stupefied.

But then, this is a touchy & very classified subject & very exclusive. The bearers of ordinance of every age are not permitted to reveal its science except to the choosen ones, strictly by merit (due to some reasons). That explains why only the crumbs remains today among the commoners.

# By Tasrif i meant ORDINANCE.

# UHMMM....OCCASIONALISM... Without thorough ma‘arifa is a oneway sure ticket to QADARIYYAH. Even though its one hurdle that must be crossed.

# Hope you are going to share the anecdotes of your acquisitions with us.. lols

Thanks.

Please where is d op @emekaraj?? I mentioned u in a post,please can u get back to me? Thanks

ikupakuti:
@Laduna1,

Loools @ sheikh & novice, i‘m just kuti & no sheikh abeg,

This your submission “ I believe no heavenly body has any sort of control on mankind“ just weaken me completely! Wallahi

I hope you‘ve not being listening to those modern muslims, who always try to align their thougths with that of the west or maybe you assumed the counterfeit being paraded today ?

# Do you believe God does things through agency?

# You mentioned causality (cause & effect), do you really grasp its concept ?

# Can we really analyze the network of relativism on macrocosmic level without “them“ in the equation ?

# Menstral circle of women, ocean tides, stablization of revolutions & orbits, fasting, hajj, energy, light, regulation of time, crops, harvests, weather, angels monitoring & regulating acts, the macrocosm universe, planets being the cusor of time ? What else is “control“ ?

# Do you really think a mystic of ibn AL-ARABI (r.a) calibre would treat an unworthy subject ?

# Or are you just applying taqiyya...lols

You see, this is a public forum & we are talking esoterics here, else i‘d have tabled some stupendous facts from the Quran (@ quantum levels) that‘ll leave you stupefied.

But then, this is a touchy & very classified subject & very exclusive. The bearers of ordinance of every age are not permitted to reveal its science except to the choosen ones, strictly by merit (due to some reasons). That explains why only the crumbs remains today among the commoners.

# By Tasrif i meant ORDINANCE.

# UHMMM....OCCASIONALISM... Without thorough ma‘arifa is a oneway sure ticket to QADARIYYAH. Even though its one hurdle that must be crossed.

# Hope you are going to share the anecdotes of your acquisitions with us.. lols

Thanks.

Uhmmmmm, you got me tongue tied here with your seemingly rhetoric questions. Lols

Firstly, I believe God works through agency. And all the phenomenon; ranging from Quranic revelations and down to minutes details in the universe, one can find the God's agency at work. Also, through the Laws of nature HE has chosen to express or governs HIS actions.

However, you see if care is not taking, one can easily set up partner (shirk) with God, through heaven bodies as a medium of cause and effect, even when we know unequivocally that's how things work. Take this hadith qudsi for instance:


"The Messenger of Allah (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) led the morning prayer for us at al-Hudaybiyah following rainfall during the night. When the Prophet (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) finished, he faced the people and said to them: Do you know what your Lord has said? They said: Allah and his Messenger know best. He said: This morning one of my servants became a believer in Me and one a disbeliever. As for him who said: We have been given rain by virtue of Allah and His mercy, that one is a believer in Me, a disbeliever in the stars (2); and as for him who said: We have been given rain by such-and-such a star, that one is a disbeliever in Me, a believer in the stars. (2) The pre-Islamic Arabs believed that rain was brought about by the movement of stars. This Hadith draws attention to the fact that whatever be the direct cause of such natural phenomena as rain, it is Allah the Almighty who is the Disposer of all things. It was related by al-Bukhari (also by Malik and an-Nasa'i)."

You may be talking about astrology from another perspective which I would definitely want you to share either privately or in this forum for benefit of all. Please do share the relevant Quranic passages and hadith even if it is in peripheral without going to details for now.

Yeah, occasionallism tends to mitigate this problems in some ways by arguing that "ANY CREATED THINGS CANNOT BE EFFICIENT CAUSE" . And in the classical example given is that fire does NOT necessarily cause of burning but rather GOD.and this concept is said been defended by LOGIC by Imam Ghazali. Though yet to see his it been proved.

So, that's just my humble take on these issues for now, but I wouldn't mind knowing your view on these things, and sharing it intelligently as you use to do.

And as for mode of acquisition, is unceasing prayer :"Allahuma Rabbi Sidni Illima wastagfirgllah" and behold ... Lols

I do hope you will share yours likewise.

Thanks.