fratermathy:



For example, a simple basic experiment given to new Rosicrucians is the candle light experiment which is a members only exercise but I want to share parts of it to answer your question. The aim of the exercise is to train the mind to concentrate effectively, assimilate easily and to learn meditation.

Firstly get a candle stick and light it up
Sit close to the lighted candle just few metres away with your back flat on a chair and your feet on the ground.
Now gaze at the candle without blinking your eyes for as long as possible.
Do this until you lose your thoughts and the flame become the only thing on your mind.
When you feel you are tired or the need to stop just stop slowly and keep doing it for as long as you want until desired concentration is achieved.

This is a very simple exercise to improve your concentration. It can help you especially as a student who can't concentrate to read. It will help you master meditation. It will help you in many ways you cannot even begin to fathom. I am not supposed to be posting this but I feel people tend to criticise what they don't know. So here's an AMORC exercise for you. I hope you are satisfied.

Thanks for this. What about gazing at the sun? Are they doing thesame thing?

OnPointMan:


Thanks for this. What about gazing at the sun? Are they doing thesame thing?

Please don't stare at the sun. It's not recommended. They are not the same.

You can briefly stare and adore the rising sun or setting sun but don't make it a habit and it is not advised for anything other than sheer admiration of the sun.

OnPointMan:


Thanks for this. What about gazing at the sun? Are they doing thesame thing?

Go To www.AMORConline.com

and click on the Yellow tab to read the Rosicrucian Monographs For FREE

The technique of cognitive persuasion for cult recruitment is based on reflexive thinking- that is a kind of thinking that transpires relatively unconsciously, based on assumptions you have accepted long ago. Reflect instead of reflex and you will be safer.

OnPointMan:


Thanks for this. What about gazing at the sun? Are they doing thesame thing?

FREE

Go To www.AMORConline.com

and click on the Yellow tab to read the Rosicrucian Monographs For FREE

The technique of cognitive persuasion for cult recruitment is based on reflexive thinking- that is a kind of thinking that transpires relatively unconsciously, based on assumptions you have accepted long ago. Reflect instead of reflex and you will be safer.

@fratermathy I had a few questions, that perhaps your 50 some years of membership could provide insight into.

I'm thinking about joining AMORC, possibly, but unsure about it after the "split". So I'm left between a choice of AMORC and CR+C . The one hand it claimed that AMORC changed so much material when updating that a lot of the original meanings have become lost or obscured from original intent and that while CR+C has updated, has kept original meanings intact. But on the other side AMORC seems like such a large organization, nice that they put out magazines, larger support base, etc....

Since you have been with, pre and post split, what are your thoughts of the changes you've seen, either for better or worse? Are the negatives overblown?

I'm left wondering, should I do AMORC, should I do CR+C, should I do them both at the same time and take the best of each lesson? I found monographs for the AMORC postulate section. Wish I could find Mandamus 1 or 2 for CR+R, so I could take them side by side to compare. (I should note that even though I found some monographs which people do post online, I do fully intend on becoming a full paying member once decided, just wanted some help in making a decision).

Thanks in advance!
-Dave

dkcarey:
@fratermathy I had a few questions, that perhaps your 50 some years of membership could provide insight into.

I'm thinking about joining AMORC, possibly, but unsure about it after the "split". So I'm left between a choice of AMORC and CR+C . The one hand it claimed that AMORC changed so much material when updating that a lot of the original meanings have become lost or obscured from original intent and that while CR+C has updated, has kept original meanings intact. But on the other side AMORC seems like such a large organization, nice that they put out magazines, larger support base, etc....

Since you have been with, pre and post split, what are your thoughts of the changes you've seen, either for better or worse? Are the negatives overblown?

I'm left wondering, should I do AMORC, should I do CR+C, should I do them both at the same time and take the best of each lesson? I found monographs for the AMORC postulate section. Wish I could find Mandamus 1 or 2 for CR+R, so I could take them side by side to compare. (I should note that even though I found some monographs which people do post online, I do fully intend on becoming a full paying member once decided, just wanted some help in making a decision).

Thanks in advance!
-Dave

**I have not been in AMORC for 50 something years!

I am not a member of CR+C so I wouldn't know their claims or what not. However, I do know that their pioneer imperator, Gary Stewart, left AMORC due to issues with the board. He stated that AMORC was modifying the original manuscript of Harvey Lewis and he was against this. So he set up CR+C and claims to have and use the original R+C monographs by Harvey Lewis with just a few addendum. How true this is can only be confirmed by members of both organisations. I am used to AMORC monographs and I love the simplicity in which they are presented. The language is understandable by almost anyone. You need not crack your brains before understanding basic mystical principles and concepts.

Secondly, AMORC is well organised into Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos across the world with a presence in almost every country on earth. This is useful for the continued progress of students in the path.

AMORC degree structures have been revised from the initial ones where new members are bombarded with complex mystical principles and knowledge. The current structure provides for a graded system where principles are presented as slowly as possible to allow for the student's development and understanding of the concepts.

AMORC is far cheaper and more accessible, at least in Nigeria!


What more can I say? If you want to affiliate with any Rosicrucian group, AMORC is simply the best for many reasons.

My apologies on the 50 yrs thing, some reason higher up in the thread I thought you said you've been with AMORC that long.

And my apologies if I came off insulting toward AMORC, or if you took it that way, as your response almost sounds as if I rubbed you the wrong way. If so, I apologize. Just seeking to understand. I can see someone continuing to stay with AMORC with a "well that's not how we learned in the old days, it was tougher, took more skill to stick it out, but I still enjoy the organization" type of attitude. So that's where some of my questions were coming from.

Its my impression that the board booted Gary Stewart when they tried to sue him for mismanagement of funds or something, a case they later dropped (which I'm not here to debate that yes or no), And that AFTER he was booted, they instituted an update to the monographs. Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is incorrect. So you never went through the older material? Or you did, but feel the newer is better organized for the would be learner?

I didn't suspect you were a member of CR+R or claim that, but if you were on the old AMORC Monographs the CR+R would most likely closely resemble them. If you thought the older Monographs were a little better I might be compelled to look the CR+R route. If you felt the newer were still in the spirit, easier, better. etc... then obviously have leanings in that direction.

Yes your point about all the Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos was one of the things in favor of AMORC in my eyes.

In America its actually cheaper to be with CR+C. $100 a yr vs $150 for AMORC, but that difference really doesn't matter to me. More was looking for someone with long term experience. If their overall thought was the new monographs are better than the old, I'd gladly pay the additional price (for me) for AMORC.

One last question. Not that I'm looking to end before I ever begin, but one of the European AMORC sites said it takes about 5 1/2 years to go through the degree program. Are there still... I'm note sure how to word it, opportunities to advance past this (5yr period) with additional learning? Or the thought to just refine the material you've learned over the past few years. (Realizing you might not be able to comment on this too much).

Thanks in advance!!

dkcarey:
My apologies on the 50 yrs thing, some reason higher up in the thread I thought you said you've been with AMORC that long.

No problem. I haven't been in AMORC for 50+ years, just a member old enough in AMORC

And my apologies if I came off insulting toward AMORC, or if you took it that way, as your response almost sounds as if I rubbed you the wrong way. If so, I apologize. Just seeking to understand. I can see someone continuing to stay with AMORC with a "well that's not how we learned in the old days, it was tougher, took more skill to stick it out, but I still enjoy the organization" type of attitude. So that's where some of my questions were coming from.

No offence taken. Apology wasn't needed.

Its my impression that the board booted Gary Stewart when they tried to sue him for mismanagement of funds or something, a case they later dropped (which I'm not here to debate that yes or no), And that AFTER he was booted, they instituted an update to the monographs. Perhaps my understanding of the timeline is incorrect. So you never went through the older material? Or you did, but feel the newer is better organized for the would be learner?

My guess is that the board updated the monographs in response to Stewart's exact usage of them in his own group. It wouldn't make sense for two groups to be distributing the exact same materials. Another reason for the change was probably the change in governance of AMORC. Every leader injects his own idea into an organisation. Christian Bernard may have believed that updating the monographs was necessary in order for AMORC to be attuned to contemporary realities. Knowledge is not static but dynamic and there is always the need to update curriculum in order to attract younger Rosicrucians and suit 21st century realities. However, we may never really know the exact reason why save for speculations as I have made.

I didn't suspect you were a member of CR+R or claim that, but if you were on the old AMORC Monographs the CR+R would most likely closely resemble them. If you thought the older Monographs were a little better I might be compelled to look the CR+R route. If you felt the newer were still in the spirit, easier, better. etc... then obviously have leanings in that direction.

I am not savvy with the entire old monographs but I may have seen one or two to know that it was much deeper in content. However, bear in mind that CR+C has a limited number of monographs which Lewis wrote before his death and I don't know if Stewart has updated this. In AMORC, thousands of new monographs have been written and even the old ones have been updated and simplified. If you need to follow a path that emphasises ease and progressive development, AMORC offers that. However, if you need something intense and written in the esoteric language of the early 20th century, CR+C should do it for you. The Rosicrucian path is a personal journey. However one embarks upon it is not the issue but how one attains the state of the Rosy Cross is far more important. Illumination can be reached via any means but I believe that AMORC's method offers for a general richer experience.

Yes your point about all the Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos was one of the things in favor of AMORC in my eyes.

Yes. AMORC has a worldwide representation. Lodges, chapters and pronaos help in no small measure in the quick development of students. There are many mystical experiences and lessons that can only be learnt from Rosicrucian lodges.

In America its actually cheaper to be with CR+C. $100 a yr vs $150 for AMORC, but that difference really doesn't matter to me. More was looking for someone with long term experience. If their overall thought was the new monographs are better than the old, I'd gladly pay the additional price (for me) for AMORC.

I used Nigeria's calculation earlier. Since CR+C has no regional base in Africa, intending members have to register straight to the USA and pay in dollars. AMORC has a base in Nigeria and Africa as a whole and this has made subscription cheaper and easier.

One last question. Not that I'm looking to end before I ever begin, but one of the European AMORC sites said it takes about 5 1/2 years to go through the degree program. Are there still... I'm note sure how to word it, opportunities to advance past this (5yr period) with additional learning? Or the thought to just refine the material you've learned over the past few years. (Realizing you might not be able to comment on this too much).

Thanks in advance!!

It will take 5 1/2 years to complete degree 1 to degree 9. Thereafter the student moves to the Illuminati degree of degree 10-12 which may take an additional 5 years to complete. Afterwards, students go to Ordo Summon Bonum section and move through the degree of planes 1-7. The degree of planes may take decades to complete and some members generally end here. However, if anyone goes through the planes, s/he becomes a life member of AMORC and there are other unnamed "sections" and monographs. In essence, you never stop reading in AMORC. Apart from the monographs, there are other ways to learn in AMORC: joining the Traditional Martinist Order, learning kabbalah, partaking in Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos convocations and excercises, etc etc.

^^^

Oga take your format elsewhere and you really need to be careful of the things you hustle with.

fratermathy:

No problem. I haven't been in AMORC for 50+ years, just a member old enough in AMORC



No offence taken. Apology wasn't needed.



My guess is that the board updated the monographs in response to Stewart's exact usage of them in his own group. It wouldn't make sense for two groups to be distributing the exact same materials. Another reason for the change was probably the change in governance of AMORC. Every leader injects his own idea into an organisation. Christian Bernard may have believed that updating the monographs was necessary in order for AMORC to be attuned to contemporary realities. Knowledge is not static but dynamic and there is always the need to update curriculum in order to attract younger Rosicrucians and suit 21st century realities. However, we may never really know the exact reason why save for speculations as I have made.



I am not savvy with the entire old monographs but I may have seen one or two to know that it was much deeper in content. However, bear in mind that CR+C has a limited number of monographs which Lewis wrote before his death and I don't know if Stewart has updated this. In AMORC, thousands of new monographs have been written and even the old ones have been updated and simplified. If you need to follow a path that emphasises ease and progressive development, AMORC offers that. However, if you need something intense and written in the esoteric language of the early 20th century, CR+C should do it for you. The Rosicrucian path is a personal journey. However one embarks upon it is not the issue but how one attains the state of the Rosy Cross is far more important. Illumination can be reached via any means but I believe that AMORC's method offers for a general richer experience.



Yes. AMORC has a worldwide representation. Lodges, chapters and pronaos help in no small measure in the quick development of students. There are many mystical experiences and lessons that can only be learnt from Rosicrucian lodges.



I used Nigeria's calculation earlier. Since CR+C has no regional base in Africa, intending members have to register straight to the USA and pay in dollars. AMORC has a base in Nigeria and Africa as a whole and this has made subscription cheaper and easier.



It will take 5 1/2 years to complete degree 1 to degree 9. Thereafter the student moves to the Illuminati degree of degree 10-12 which may take an additional 5 years to complete. Afterwards, students go to Ordo Summon Bonum section and move through the degree of planes 1-7. The degree of planes may take decades to complete and some members generally end here. However, if anyone goes through the planes, s/he becomes a life member of AMORC and there are other unnamed "sections" and monographs. In essence, you never stop reading in AMORC. Apart from the monographs, there are other ways to learn in AMORC: joining the Traditional Martinist Order, learning kabbalah, partaking in Lodges, Chapters and Pronaos convocations and excercises, etc etc.

Thanks fratermathy, have me leaning back towards AMORC now. I like the prospects of continued learning. But did want to ask you one more thing. Something you mentioned, as well as something a friend of mine mentioned. You said

fratermathy:
There are many mystical experiences and lessons that can only be learnt from Rosicrucian lodges.

I have a friend who has studied Rosicrucianism from a non-AMORC path. What path or organization he keeps close to the vest, and doesn't like to say. He said when he was researching in New York City, he came across some AMORC gentleman during his work. They questioned him, and he gave answers satisfactory enough to somewhat openly speak about certain things during his time there. Anyways, my friend, while not a part of the organization, he was under the impression that while you may be a subscribed at home study member, you're not really seen as a "real Rosicrucian" or a "real AMORC" member unless you actually go to and participate in a lodge.

Based on his comments, and yours above, I'm just wondering your thoughts on this. If I had a lodge in my back yard I'd go, but looking at the website it looks like the nearest one is a 5 hr drive in either direction.

As always, thanks in advance!

dkcarey:


Thanks fratermathy, have me leaning back towards AMORC now. I like the prospects of continued learning. But did want to ask you one more thing. Something you mentioned, as well as something a friend of mine mentioned. You said



I have a friend who has studied Rosicrucianism from a non-AMORC path. What path or organization he keeps close to the vest, and doesn't like to say. He said when he was researching in New York City, he came across some AMORC gentleman during his work. They questioned him, and he gave answers satisfactory enough to somewhat openly speak about certain things during his time there. Anyways, my friend, while not a part of the organization, he was under the impression that while you may be a subscribed at home study member, you're not really seen as a "real Rosicrucian" or a "real AMORC" member unless you actually go to and participate in a lodge.

Based on his comments, and yours above, I'm just wondering your thoughts on this. If I had a lodge in my back yard I'd go, but looking at the website it looks like the nearest one is a 5 hr drive in either direction.

As always, thanks in advance!

There is no such segregation as far as I am aware. I know people who hardly attend lodges except when they want to progress to higher degrees or on special events. Nobody segregates them whatsoever.

When I say there are some mystical experiences only a lodge can provide, I say so with special reference to initiations from degrees to degrees and other convocations where lessons are given by the lodge's worthy master.

fratermathy:


There is no such segregation as far as I am aware. I know people who hardly attend lodges except when they want to progress to higher degrees or on special events. Nobody segregates them whatsoever.

When I say there are some mystical experiences only a lodge can provide, I say so with special reference to initiations from degrees to degrees and other convocations where lessons are given by the lodge's worthy master.

That's good to hear. Think I'm gonna pull the trigger and sign up. For initiations is that something you'd normally have to petition a lodge to do, or do most have a regular schedule for that kind of thing? And would you just continue working on monographs until they get you in, or put them on pause typically until you did whatever initiation, and then resume.

Thanks for being helpful and forthcoming in helping me make this decision. Excited to get my first packet.

dkcarey:


That's good to hear. Think I'm gonna pull the trigger and sign up. For initiations is that something you'd normally have to petition a lodge to do, or do most have a regular schedule for that kind of thing? And would you just continue working on monographs until they get you in, or put them on pause typically until you did whatever initiation, and then resume.

Thanks for being helpful and forthcoming in helping me make this decision. Excited to get my first packet.

Degree initiations are fixed once every month in every lodge in the world, typically the last weekend of the month in many lodges.

You don't have to pause monographs pending initiations. There are home initiations you may undertake by yourself before proceeding to a new degree. Going to a lodge is to basically consolidate on the home initiation, get certified for that degree initiation and to get new lessons not conveyed in the monographs.

I wish you well as you undertake the path of the Rose and Cross. Pax Profoundi!

fratermathy:


Degree initiations are fixed once every month in every lodge in the world, typically the last weekend of the month in many lodges.

You don't have to pause monographs pending initiations. There are home initiations you may undertake by yourself before proceeding to a new degree. Going to a lodge is to basically consolidate on the home initiation, get certified for that degree initiation and to get new lessons not conveyed in the monographs.

I wish you well as you undertake the path of the Rose and Cross. Pax Profoundi!

Nothing more to ask or add, just wanted to follow up with another thanks for all the help.

Peace Profound
-Frater Dave

what are the conseqiencies of leaking the content of the monohraph? i am going to ask the same question someone asked earlier which you did not reply: can one get access to our materials especially the digest/heritage without being a member?

is this all there is to the order , or they hiding more?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOCdFDXe5jQ

MiddleDimension:
what are the conseqiencies of leaking the content of the monohraph? i am going to ask the same question someone asked earlier which you did not reply: can one get access to our materials especially the digest/heritage without being a member?

If the digest was top secret I doubt it would be posted on the main website for all to see for free.
https://www.rosicrucian.org/rosicrucian-digest

I'd say feel free to read.

MiddleDimension:
what are the conseqiencies of leaking the content of the monohraph? i am going to ask the same question someone asked earlier which you did not reply: can one get access to our materials especially the digest/heritage without being a member?

There are no consequences to leaking the contents of the monographs but you should always know that it is not your property but that Of AMORC so one can be sued for leaking it since its a breach of membership.

You can read the digest freely. It is a public material.

MiddleDimension:
is this all there is to the order , or they hiding more?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOCdFDXe5jQ

Thanks for this video and yes, this is basically all there is to AMORC.

fratermathy:

There are no consequences to leaking the contents of the monographs but you should always know that it is not your property but that Of AMORC so one can be sued for leaking it since its a breach of membership.

You can read the digest freely. It is a public material.

in the case of death of a member, what does his family do with the monographs? burn them if they dont need them anymore?

fratermathy:


Thanks for this video and yes, this is basically all there is to AMORC.

i reallt find the video facinating and can relate to alot of the things said there. they make absolute sense. the people that spoke the strongest words there to me are the heavy bearded man, the bald man and the middle aged woman who also spoke at the end. she got me nodding when ahe said in the last part: "our commitment is not just to perpetuate the rosicrucian tradition, but also to CONTRIBUTE IN ELEVATING THE COSCIOUNESS OF HUMANITY".

My battery is low now, maybe by tomorrow, i will come and talk about this the more.

MiddleDimension:
in the case of death of a member, what does his family do with the monographs? burn them if they dont need them anymore?

They are asked to return them to AMORC. Some family members do destroy the monographs. Others take them to the church

Run from Amorc and any other Esoteric Organizations.... It's always fun and harmless in the beginning, but later on, you will see their true colour. That their monographs is possessed with demons... Don't open it without binding the demons first. The more you Read it the more Bewitched you are. Read one that compared the Holy spirit to a serpent , replaced the pic of Jesus with a meditating demon.. Even one that said that Jesus was a great occultist. Can you imagine?

NoWorries7:
Run from Amorc and any other Esoteric Organizations.... It's always fun and harmless in the beginning, but later on, you will see their true colour. That their monographs is possessed with demons... Don't open it without binding the demons first. The more you Read it the more Bewitched you are. Read one that compared the Holy spirit to a serpent , replaced the pic of Jesus with a meditating demon.. Even one that said that Jesus was a great occultist. Can you imagine?

Thanks for the free entertainment!

Why do AMORC members insure their live's and name AMORC as the beneficiary of the insurance after their death? I know somebody who is an AMORC member, he insured his life for N50,000,000 and AMORC is the Beneficiary of the Lump Sum payment!

Bakason247:
Why do AMORC members insure their live's and name AMORC as the beneficiary of the insurance after their death? I know somebody who is an AMORC member, he insured his life for N50,000,000 and AMORC is the Beneficiary of the Lump Sum payment!

Its a personal thing. For every one that does that, there are thousands that don't.


Mind you, giving your life savings and insurance benefits to AMORC is simply a way of making sure the organisation continues with its task of disseminating knowledge. AMORC relies largely on donations such as these to survive. The dues members pay is not usually enough to cater for AMORC's many expenses including printing of documents, shipping costs, payment of workers, etc etc.

[quote author=fratermathy post=32193432]
ufuomaererobe@gmail.com

fratermathy:


They are asked to return them to AMORC. Some family members do destroy the monographs. Others take them to the church

to the church to do what?

Bakason247:
Why do AMORC members insure their live's and name AMORC as the beneficiary of the insurance after their death? I know somebody who is an AMORC member, he insured his life for N50,000,000 and AMORC is the Beneficiary of the Lump Sum payment!

and i think people do the same in the church too. some people name the church in their will

fratermathy:




Thanks for the free entertainment!

answer to those claims he made, comparing holy ghost with a serpent. why do you compare holy ghost to a serpent?

MiddleDimension:
answer to those claims he made, comparing holy ghost with a serpent. why do you compare holy ghost to a serpent?

And which of AMORC's affiliated body did he see or hear that? Why didn't he indicate it? Where is the video of an AMORC member comparing holy ghost to a serpent or replacing Jesus' picture with a meditating demon?

I don't spend time trying to educate conspiracy theorists.


Holy ghost serpent . Does that even sound logical to you? Why would someone or any group compare anything with a serpent?

Many of these fanatics think AMORC members come together and start plotting against Christianity. Such a silly and egocentric line of thinking. There are many Christians in AMORC, just like there are Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, etc. Personal religious beliefs are not discussed in any way in AMORC.