ActivateKruger:


I thought Iran had the S300... But anyways, the US will reject the approval.

Strictly speaking we don't have to apply for approval, as the system cannot have any conceivable double use in Iran's nuclear industry. So no reason to reject. This is more hedging of bets: should anything change whilst we're busy with deliveries, no one can accuse us of violating sanctions which didn't exist at time of contract signature, like we were with Libya.

I'm more interested in Sweden's position: they're currently on the SC and if the Iranians opt for the SAAB radar (which has been in tests here with the Umkhonto for the past 8 months), it puts them in an awkward position.

frumentius:


Strictly speaking we don't have to apply for approval, as the system cannot have any conceivable double use in Iran's nuclear industry. So no reason to reject. This is more hedging of bets: should anything change whilst we're busy with deliveries, no one can accuse us of violating sanctions which didn't exist at time of contract signature, like we were with Libya.

I'm more interested in Sweden's position: they're currently on the SC and if the Iranians opt for the SAAB radar (which has been in tests here with the Umkhonto for the past 8 months), it puts them in an awkward position.

Israel doesn't want Iran to have a meaningful air defence system, remember how much they tried blocking the S300 acquisition even tried using its business influence in Russia to discourage Russia from the transaction.

This one is straight forward, Umkhonto Missile is a modern system that Israel would not like especially if they if they think Iran could use it to defend it's potential nuclear site (s).

This won't go through.

ActivateKruger:


Israel doesn't want Iran to have a meaningful air defence system, remember how much they tried blocking the S300 acquisition even tried using its business influence in Russia to discourage Russia from the transaction.

This one is straight forward, Umkhonto Missile is a modern system that Israel would not like especially if they if they think Iran could use it to defend it's potential nuclear site (s).

This won't go through.

Well...

look at this way:

If Isreal lets the Umkhonto go through... then we know its a sh1t system

Them banning it would be a badge of honor and excellent for marketing.

Patchesagain:


Well...

look at this way:

If Isreal lets the Umkhonto go through... then we know its a sh1t system

Them banning it would be a badge of honor and excellent for marketing.

We talk to them in the background remember?

There's no doubt about the capabilities of the missile.

Patchesagain:


Well...

look at this way:

If Isreal lets the Umkhonto go through... then we know its a sh1t system

Them banning it would be a badge of honor and excellent for marketing.

Egypt and Jordan would sign up quickly

MikeCZA:
We talk to them in the background remember?

There's no doubt about the capabilities of the missile.

My concern would be the Chinese getting a copy from the Iranians then flooding the market with a duplicate Umkhonto.

ActivateKruger:


My concern would be the Chinese getting a copy from the Iranians then flooding the market with a duplicate Umkhonto.

The Chinese already have better systems available for the export market.

Henry240:


The Chinese already has better systems available for the export market.

The Chinese have any systems for export BUT we don't know much about their sophistication, they're probably unreliable.

ActivateKruger:


The Chinese have any systems for export BUT we don't know much about their sophistication, they're probably unreliable.

You came to this conclusion how?

And the South-African system isn't unreliable?

Nigeria

ActivateKruger:


My concern would be the Chinese getting a copy from the Iranians then flooding the market with a duplicate Umkhonto.

If we are going to sell the missile to Iran then they are going to make copies.

Henry240:

You came to this conclusion how?
And the South-African system isn't unreliable?

This is meant to start an off topic discussion. I'll ignore you.

ActivateKruger:


This is meant to start an off topic discussion. I'll ignore you.

Stop pulling comments straight outta your arse. Best regards.

Henry240:


Stop pulling comments straight outta your arse. Best regards.

That is something you're rather known for.


You know that Iran has access to Chinese weapons right? You know that they could have easily evaluated all the various Chinese air defence systems without even bothering with other options - right?... The Iranians evaluating the Umkhonto SAM speaks volumes even if they don't go through with the actual purchase.

Henry240:


The Chinese already have better systems available for the export market.

And the Algerians, Finns and now the Iranians just took pity on Denel's inferior system?

ActivateKruger:


I thought Iran had the S300... But anyways, the US will reject the approval.

They do. It was deployed at Fordow Nuclear site to safe guard it against aerial attack especially from IAF (who are just bent on seeing the facility destroyed).

So, any other SAM deal would mostly be aimed at defending their nuclear site(s) rather than protecting Tehran.

Iran claimed their home built Bavar-3(faith-373) is more potent than the S300, wondering why they weren't mass produced like they said in 2016 and why they are still going after foreign ADS if the Bavar-3 is actually capable of its stated capabilities.

There's greater possibility that the SA-21 Growler deployment and the Umkhonto deal is more of serving two purpose: fixing the tech gap/loopholes in their home grown Air Defense Systems and defending their Nuclear facilities.

ActivateKruger:


That is something you're rather known for.


You know that Iran has access to Chinese weapons right? You know that they could have easily evaluated all the various Chinese air defence systems without even bothering with other options - right?... The Iranians evaluating the Umkhonto SAM speaks volumes even if they don't go through with the actual purchase.

They should consult Henry! And so should the Pakistani Navy, who - despite their close ties with China and its better systems - have expressed interest in the Umkhonto when they acquire frigates.

frumentius:


And the Algerians, Finns and now the Iranians just took pity on Denel's inferior system?

Choice.

Henry240:


Choice.

In Henry logic, a country like Iran -athwart some of the most dangerous real estate on the planet - decides to forgo the best available weapons systems and all because of some irresistible yearn to exercise its choice by buying some inferior Denel system.
People have paid with their lives for lesser infractions in Iran.

Try again.

ActivateKruger:


That is something you're rather known for.


You know that Iran has access to Chinese weapons right? You know that they could have easily evaluated all the various Chinese air defence systems without even bothering with other options - right?... The Iranians evaluating the Umkhonto SAM speaks volumes even if they don't go through with the actual purchase.

Multiple considerations go into buying a defence system, that's not to say one system is inferior to another. It simply means all considerations taken into account, perhaps my interest would be better served if i go for this defence system instead of that.

The Russians have the best ADS, but you don't see the world buying only Russian systems now, do you?

The Iranians showing interest in the South-African system is a good thing, however it is not enough reason to say a different system is inferior or trash. E.g, just like your Mokopa missing a pre-designated, static target at 8km, when it has a 10km effective range on it's brochures.

.

Henry240:


Multiple considerations go into buying a defence system, that's not to say one system is inferior to another. It simply means all considerations taken into account, perhaps my interest would be better served if i go for this defence system instead of that.

The Russians have the best ADS, but you don't see the world buying only Russian systems now, do you?

The Iranians showing interest in the South-African system is a good thing, however it is not enough reason to say a different system is inferior or trash. E.g, just like your Mokopa missing a pre-designated, static target at 8km, when it has a 10km effective range on it's brochures.

Hang on, are you reversing yourself on the "better Chinese systems"?
Sort of like the dune buggy/Polaris comparison?

Never mind trying again. Spare yourself and just stop.

frumentius:


[s]In Henry logic, a country like Iran -athwart some of the most dangerous real estate on the planet - decides to forgo the best available weapons systems and all because of some irresistible yearn to exercise its choice by buying some inferior Denel system.
People have paid with their lives for lesser infractions in Iran.

Try again.[/s]

Meaningless rant.

Endeavour to reply with a more coherent argument.

Henry240:


Choice.

Maybe you don't understand, defending your airspace or naval area of operation from air threats is a matter of life and death. You buy the best to protect your equipment, serviceman and territory... You somehow think it's equivalent to buying a Motorola or Samsung phone where it's a matter of choice.

frumentius:

Hang on, are you reversing yourself on the "better Chinese systems"? Sort of like the dune buggy/Polaris comparison?
Never mind trying again. Spare yourself and just stop.

The LY-80 is one of such better systems available.

"So you're still grasping at straws?"..... How most unfortunate.

Henry240:


The LY-80 is one of such better systems available.


"So you're still grasping at straws?"..... How most unfortunate.

There's a dozen or two of such systems allover the world, we're aware of them Henry240 and a handful of them are in China where Iran can simply buy without bothering with other " inferior" systems.

Now don't make us go in circles.

ActivateKruger:


There's a dozen or two of such systems allover the world, we're aware of them Henry240 and a handful of them are in China where Iran can simply buy without bothering with other " inferior" systems.

Now don't make us go in circles.

Algeria, Finland, Sweden (who cancelled their order during the economic down-turn) possibly Iran and Pakistan must all bow down to Henry's superior knowledge.
The illogic, the emotion of it all, all denote tightly clenched butt cheeks.

ActivateKruger:


There's a dozen or two of such systems allover the world, we're aware of them Henry240 and a handful of them are in China where Iran can simply buy without bothering with other " inferior" systems.

Now don't make us go in circles.

I don't understand where all this butt-hurt is coming from, but be rest assured, it isn't my intent to cause any.

Vikkie14:
They do. It was deployed at Fordow Nuclear site to safe guard it against aerial attack especially from IAF (who are just bent on seeing the facility destroyed).

So, any other SAM deal would mostly be aimed at defending their nuclear site(s) rather than protecting Tehran.

Iran claimed their home built Bavar-3(faith-373) is more potent than the S300, wondering why they weren't mass produced like they said in 2016 and why they are still going after foreign ADS if the Bavar-3 is actually capable of its stated capabilities.

There's greater possibility that the SA-21 Growler deployment and the Umkhonto deal is more of serving two purpose: fixing the tech gap/loopholes in their home grown Air Defense Systems and defending their Nuclear facilities.

There's also a possibility that the US (under Trump) could actually launch Tomahawks on suspected nuclear sites. The S300 is not much of a use there, Umkhonto can actually handle such threats because of its ability to engage smaller and highly maneuverable objects.

Henry240:


I don't understand where all this butt-hurt is coming from, but be rest assured, it isn't my intent to cause any.

We have a "butt-hurt" because Iran is interested in a local defence system?

Wow, I think you should call all your London relatives and check if they're well because you're clearly upset over something.

ActivateKruger:


There's also a possibility that the US (under Trump) could actually launch Tomahawks on suspected nuclear sites. The S300 is not much of a use there, Umkhonto can actually handle such threats because of its ability to engage smaller and highly maneuverable objects.

The S300 is a system.

The Umkhonto will be intergrated into that air defence layered system.

The S300 is a highly capable system.

off topic terror attack today in Londons Westminster close to the House of Parliament, they killed the terrisrst scum captured and manyhunt begins for the suspected second one. Trust British security services