airmark:


Apari's head L is with a cap.


[img]https://lawebdelkuku.files./2013/03/letras_gorra_animado_l.gif[/img]

U don corner the guy, he has nothing to say, , d idiot will now ignore the post, run to anoda thread to go start another argument about Hazard, the rate at which he tries his best to bring down Hazard or force it down our throats that Hazard is shiit, you would think he gets paid to do that.

The same garbage Hazard, he wouldn't mind for his team, ask him why he wants Hazard the trash, he will be yarning nonsense.

raumdeuter:


Only a foolish man will be thinking like you. That's why you are the most foolish poster here after airmark

We have heard you, oya, tell us what Boateng did to stop Messi, if they are not tackles, what are they.??

Chelseafan1:


Are you surprised??

Old age is catching up with him, this kind of fccckery is beyond me.

At your thing age you are more foolish than everyone of your age group.

Kesh is younger than you but more sensible.
Donjazzet is older than you and still sensible.

The only thing that shines through in you is your extreme foolishness

raumdeuter:


At your thing age you are more foolish than everyone of your age group.

Kesh is younger than you but more sensible.
Donjazzet is older than you and still sensible.

The only thing that shines through in you is your extreme foolishness

LOL, agreed! Oya reply Airmark's post abi you didn't see it, should i copy and paste for you? .

Chelseafan1:


We have heard you, oya, tell us what Boateng did to stop Messi, if they are not tackles, what are they.??

Boateng deployed different methods to stop the Argentine attacks. I've posted that several hours ago but you are so poor in spirit that yoh can't even see if it hits in your gorimapa face

raumdeuter:


Boatank used different methods on that day to thwart the Argentine attack not just one method

Chelseafan1:


LOL, agreed! Oya reply Airmark's post abi you didn't see it, should i copy and paste for you? .

I will assume a sensible person will see this post but not a certified morron like you

raumdeuter:


Boateng deployed different methods to stop the Argentine attacks. I've posted that several hours ago but you are so poor in spirit that yoh can't even see if it hits in your gorimapa face

And none of those 'different methods' was tackles?

Chelseafan1:


U don corner the guy, he has nothing to say, , d idiot will now ignore the post, run to anoda thread to go start another argument about Hazard, the rate at which he tries his best to bring down Hazard or force it down our throats that Hazard is shiit, you would think he gets paid to do that.

The same garbage Hazard, he wouldn't mind for his team, ask him why he wants Hazard the trash, he will be yarning nonsense.

Word on the street was that apari lost a lot betting on a straight win, backing bayern, the day hazard killed their 3 legends within 3 secs.

Chelseafan1:


We have heard you, oya, tell us what Boateng did to stop Messi, if they are not tackles, what are they.??

I may need a megaphone to call his attention to this question:

Did boathand make those tackles to cover for his mistakes?

airmark:




Word on the street was that apari lost a lot betting on a straight win, backing bayern, the day hazard killed their 3 legends within 3 secs.



I may need a megaphone to call his attention to this question:

Did boathand make those tackles to cover for his mistakes?

Lwkm, he said he deployed several methods that night, I am not sure tackling was among those several methods

Chelseafan1:


Lwkm, he said he deployed several methods that night, I am not sure tackling was among those several methods

He has been looking for those several methods since.

airmark:


He has been looking for those several methods since.

Eni taye n se....apari lasan lasan

I think that Maldini's supposed quote should not be taken at face value. That quote has been floating around on the internet on its own for years, rather than as part of an interview so there is no context. Also the quote would have no doubt been given in italian (If at all), so there could be potentially a mixup in translation as well.

Below is Maldini making a lot of mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4gw7mmE0c

As someone who played with the likes of Nesta and Gattuso, I genuinely doubt that Maldini would be so flippantly dismissive about the art of tackling.

How are you going to show out the likes of Hazard or Messi? How are you going to show out the walking cliche Mr Robben?

It's not a coincidence that the likes of Neymar and Hazard draw career threatening fouls every match day. Only against Manyoo we saw that a defensive coach like Jose Mourinho had already decided that the only way to stop Hazard was to tackle him. Airmark please post that gif of Smelling trying to show out Hazard. That's what happens when you try to jockey around players who have quicker feet and quicker brains than the defender.

Tackling is a very important tool in the skill set of any half decent defensive player. You cannot be a defender or defensive midfielder and not know how to tackle. I mean just look at what's happening over there where the manager doesn't coach tackles. .

Nihilist:
I think that Maldini's supposed quote should not be taken at face value. That quote has been floating around on the internet on its own for years, rather than as part of an interview so there is no context. Also the quote would have no doubt been given in italian (If at all), so there could be potentially a mixup in translation as well.

Below is Maldini making a lot of mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-4gw7mmE0c

As someone who played with the likes of Nesta and Gattuso, I genuinely doubt that Maldini would be so flippantly dismissive about the art of tackling.

How are you going to show out the likes of Hazard or Messi? How are you going to show out the walking cliche Mr Robben?

It's not a coincidence that the likes of Neymar and Hazard draw career threatening fouls every match day. Only against Manyoo we saw that a defensive coach like Jose Mourinho had already decided that the only way to stop Hazard was to tackle him. Airmark please post that gif of Smelling trying to show out Hazard. That's what happens when you try to jockey around players who have quicker feet and quicker brains than the defender.

Tackling is a very important tool in the skill set of any half decent defensive player. You cannot be a defender or defensive midfielder and not know how to tackle. I mean just look at what's happening over there where the manager doesn't coach tackles. .

Stop miseducating the youth and filling their head with nonsense. There is no professional defender or midfielder that will turn professional and doesn't know how to tackle. Even I know how to tackle.

Every player will tackle to save their team on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis. That is the only situation where a tackle is a must, and that happens rarely in a game. Apart from that, there is no rule that says you must tackle as part of your routine 90 minute play. So going around counting number of tackles is not a valid or sensible measure of a players worth. It is the most INANE use of football stat I have ever seen.

Of the top 20 tacklers in EPL this season (full of luminaries like Erik Pieters, Claudia Yacob and other wastemen), only Ngolo Kante will make EPL team of the season. So much for counting tackles to judge players.

I know we have NGolo Kante who favours that style of play which is making us to puff our chest that no midfielder tackles more than him, yet the 2nd highest tackling midfielder in Chelsea midfield history is Ramires, a wasteman if there ever was one.

Tackling is just a style of play. Even Whoscored recognises tackling as a style of play.

Ibime:


Stop miseducating the youth and filling their head with nonsense. There is no professional defender or midfielder that will turn professional and doesn't know how to tackle. Even I know how to tackle.

Every player will tackle to save their team on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis.

You must be joking. Every player can tackle but not every player can make successful tackles. One of the reasons some defenders will be in the first team while some will be on the bench. Mustafi had the chance to tackle hazard, outside of the box, but refused and paid for it. Not every professional defender knows how to tackle well, sergio ramos at his peak is better than 1000 smalling at his best in tackling.

Ibime:


on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis. That is the only situation where a tackle is a must, and that happens rarely in a game.

This is not correct. I had seen non-counterattack moments that required last ditch tackles to stop a goal-bound moves. Especially when through passes were given to strikers after attacking midfielders have done their tricks among many bodies.

Ibime:


So going around counting number of tackles is not a valid or sensible measure of a players worth. It is the most INANE use of football stat I have ever seen.

Experts do this, it's only on nairaland i read that tackles should not be in the stats to evaluate defensive ability.

Ibime:


Of the top 20 tacklers in EPL this season (full of luminaries like Erik Pieters, Claudia Yacob and other wastemen), only Ngolo Kante will make EPL team of the season. So much for counting tackles to judge players.

Tell us the best dm in epl, whose name is not on that list of wastemen? That tells you the obvious. The year matic was adjudged the best dm in epl, he made the highest number of tackles in the league. He had 78% tackle success with 129 tackles. This season he has made just 43 tackles, i dont want to go into reasons for that sharp contrast. This is one of the reasons many people are asking questions as regards his influence in the team.

Ibime:


Tackling is just a style of play. Even Whoscored recognises tackling as a style of play.

That's not absolutely true. Whoscored considers it in rating defenders, it's more than style of play. In the image below, what do you think makes kante better than coquelin if we follow the stats? That's whoscored rating, which i had no influence on the data used. It's only on pep's mouth and here on nairaland i have seen people relegating tackles.

Ibime:


Stop miseducating the youth and filling their head with nonsense. There is no professional defender or midfielder that will turn professional and doesn't know how to tackle. Even I know how to tackle.

Every player will tackle to save their team on a dangerous counterattack etc on a need to basis. That is the only situation where a tackle is a must, and that happens rarely in a game. Apart from that, there is no rule that says you must tackle as part of your routine 90 minute play. So going around counting number of tackles is not a valid or sensible measure of a players worth. It is the most INANE use of football stat I have ever seen.

Of the top 20 tacklers in EPL this season (full of luminaries like Erik Pieters, Claudia Yacob and other wastemen), only Ngolo Kante will make EPL team of the season. So much for counting tackles to judge players.

I know we have NGolo Kante who favours that style of play which is making us to puff our chest that no midfielder tackles more than him, yet the 2nd highest tackling midfielder in Chelsea midfield history is Ramires, a wasteman if there ever was one.

Tackling is just a style of play. Even Whoscored recognises tackling as a style of play.

Airmark has already given you a comprehensive answer, but I will add this.

The top 20 tacklers in the league (adjusted for appearances) according to whoscored sees an entry from every single team in the top 6, except for the team where they don't coach tackles.

The main DM from Chelsea is in the top 20. The main DM for Arsenal is there. The main DM for Liverpool is there. Both of Spurs DMs dey there. Ander Herrera is there. If you chose to expand the dragnet to top 30, you will find Fernandinho chilling at number 27 on the list.

There are 264 players in total on that list, but the main DMs of all the teams chasing a spot in Europe have a place in the top 30. That tells me that tackling is not just a last ditch corrective measure. It tells me that all the top teams actually need people to make tackles in the middle of the park.

Defensive midfielders don't usually make team of the season, because those sort of awards are usually skewed towards attacking players. In 2013/2014 there was no DM in the PFA team. In 2014/2015, the midfielder with the highest number of tackles in the league made the team. In 2015/2016 the midfielder with the highest number of tackles made the team. In 2016/2017, the DM with the highest number of tackles is expected to make the team. So I'm not sure why you're telling me about Erik Pieters or Claudio Yacob.

@ Nihilist and Airmark,


Look egbons, I don't want to say the one wey go make handshake pass elbow. . . but una dey try my patience. Why is simple empirical evidence hard to recognise?

Top 20 tacklers does not contain Aldeweireld, Van Dijk, Luiz and Azpi - those are your 4 best defenders this season. I did not see Verthongen or Valencia either. That's your top 6 defenders.

Ngolo Kante is the only player that will PFA Team of the year in the top 20 tacklers. That is empirical evidence, case closed.

Just because NGolo Kante is envogue right now, we have people running around spouting all manner of crap.

The John Terry you have been defending as World Class against Dayo is a low volume tackler. All of my Chelsea defensive heros from Makelele to Ballack were low volume tacklers. I will not come and rubbish them today just because NGolo Kante has a different style of play, nor will I place Ramires above them because of tackle stats.

I put John Terrys tackle stats below. The first people to defend John Terry from Raumdeuter will be the same ones to come around and start telling us that number of tackles is important because of NGolo Kante. Please be consistent.

Let's desist from arguing nonsense. Make we leave am there.

Well....According to those who matter!




"He is probably my favourite player in European football over the last 15 years.

“I watched Milan in their quarter-final, second leg against Bayern Munich and Maldini went through the entire 90 minutes WITHOUT TACKLING . THAT is an ART and he is the master of it. He is a great player. You can’t dismiss the sort of experience he has."



Sir Alex" the legend" ferguson.....


http://www.express.co.uk/sport/othersport/5238/Ferguson-Maldini-s-still-the-master





More fodder for the debate!

Ibime:
@ Nihilist and Airmark,


Look egbons, I don't want to say the one wey go make handshake pass elbow. . . but una dey try my patience. Why is simple empirical evidence hard to recognise?

Top 20 tacklers does not contain Aldeweireld, Van Dijk, Luiz and Azpi - those are your 4 best defenders this season.

Ngolo Kante is the only player that will PFA Team of the year in the top 20 tacklers. That is empirical evidence, case closed.

Just because NGolo Kante is envogue right now, we have people running around spouting all manner of crap.

The John Terry you have been defending as World Class against Dayo is a low volume tackler. All of my Chelsea defensive heros from Makelele to Ballack were low volume tacklers. I will not come and rubbish them today just because NGolo Kante has a different style of play, nor will I place Ramires above them because of tackle stats.

I put John Terrys tackle stats below. The first people to defend John Terry from Raumdeuter will be the same ones to come around and start telling us that number of tackles is important because of NGolo Kante. Please be consistent.

Let's desist from arguing nonsense. Make we leave am there.

Unlike you, I like to argue within context.

We were largely discussing midfielders, don't try and obscure the debate by introducing centrebacks to the discussion. Obviously a CB is the last line of defence. He is less likely to attempt a tackle than a midfielder because the consequences could be disastrous. If a DM misses his tackle, a CB can cover him behind. If a CB misses his tackle, then the attacker could be through on goal.

Now while a CB will not be as aggressive in the tackle as a DM, they still need to tackle! Let us compare to top tackling centrebacks in the EPL today.

When we do that, it becomes immediately apparent that you don't know what you're talking about.

Van Dijk is the number 2 on the list of top tackling CBs who have made more than 15 apps in the EPL as of today. Azpi is number 4. So that's 2 of of the players you mentioned sitting in the top 5. Expand it to top 20, and you will find Luiz, and Cahill. You will find a Spurs Centreback there. You will find Arsenal centrebacks there. You will find Liverpool CBs there. You will see Otamendi there.

TACKLING IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE DEFENSIVE TOOLKIT. You cannot remove it. Simples.

Mata wipes the cross....

Drogbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



Tears shirt.. The day Raumdeuter will never forget..

lordfalcao:
Mata wipes the cross....

Drogbaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa



Tears shirt.. The day Bayern fans Raumdeuter will never forget..

FTFY.

Nihilist:


FTFY.

Mk I go fix am

Nihilist:


Unlike you, I like to argue within context.

We were largely discussing midfielders, don't try and obscure the debate by introducing centrebacks to the discussion. Obviously a CB is the last line of defence. He is less likely to attempt a tackle than a midfielder because the consequences could be disastrous. If a DM misses his tackle, a CB can cover him behind. If a CB misses his tackle, then the attacker could be through on goal.

Now while a CB will not be as aggressive in the tackle as a DM, they still need to tackle! Let us compare to top tackling centrebacks in the EPL today.

When we do that, it becomes immediately apparent that you don't know what you're talking about.

Van Dijk is the number 2 on the list of top tackling CBs who have made more than 15 apps in the EPL as of today. Azpi is number 4. So that's 2 of of the players you mentioned sitting in the top 5. Expand it to top 20, and you will find Luiz, and Cahill. You will find a Spurs Centreback there. You will find Arsenal centrebacks there. You will find Liverpool CBs there. You will see Otamendi there.

TACKLING IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE DEFENSIVE TOOLKIT. You cannot remove it. Simples.

You've just ruined your argument by showing us that Otamendi is the top tackling centre back in the league this season.

If you agree that Otamendi is the best defender in the league this season, I will agree with you that counting no of tackles is a good validation of a defenders worth.

I hope you realise that there are only 30 regular centre backs in the EPL. I will analyze the percentile ranking shortly

Ibime:


You've just ruined your argument by showing us that Otamendi is the top tackling centre back in the league this season.

If you agree that Otamendi is the best defender in the league this season, I will agree with you that counting no of tackles is a good validation of a defenders worth.

My friend don't try and obfuscate matters. Nobody said that if you make the most tackles, you are the best centreback. Shebi 2 of the players you mentioned as the top 4 CBs in EPL are in the top 4 of that list. VVD is Number 2.

Just sit down and keep this L company. You've lost again.

Ibime:


I hope you realise that there are only 30 regular centre backs in the EPL. I will analyze the percentile ranking shortly

Actually, there are 43 who have made more than 15 apps this season.

VVD and Azpi are in the top 4. Thats top 10 Percentile

Luiz is in the top 13. That's top 30 Percentile

Anyhow you want to look at it, the defenders you mentioned are at the top of the pile when it comes to tackling for centre backs.

Take another L for your troubles.

Nihilist:


Actually, there are 43 who have made more than 15 apps this season.

VVD and Azpi are in the top 4. Thats top 10 Percentile

Luiz is in the top 13. That's top 30 Percentile

Anyhow you want to look at it, the defenders you mentioned are at the top of the pile when it comes to tackling for centre backs.

Take another L for your troubles.

Calm down, you are about to take a lesson in percentiles. 15 appearances is not much. Claiming someone made top 20 of 43 CBs means nothing except bang average.

Make my daughter comot for youtube first make I enter computer.

Luiz is in the top 30 percentile for tackles yet in the top 5 percentile of centre backs this season. Do you know how low that coefficient of correlation is? Keep yarning, make I enter computer first.

Ibime:


Calm down, you are about to take a lesson in percentiles.

Make my daughter comot for youtube first make I enter computer.

Luiz is in the top 30 percentile for tackles yet in the top 5 percentile of centre backs this season. Do you know how low that coefficient of correlation is? Keep yarning, make I enter computer first.

What is this one yarning again?

The top defenders you mentioned have also been exposed as the top tackling centre backs in the land. Now you're yarning coeffiecient of blah blah.

Those who know you will not be surprised that you try to flip the argument again to save face. The only thing you should be calculating is the coefficient of correlation to this L that you're holding.

Carry on accumulating these Ls and we might have to change your name to lallana

Nihilist:


What is this one yarning again?

The top defenders you mentioned have also been exposed as the top tackling centre backs in the land. Now you're yarning coeffiecient of blah blah.

Those who know you will not be surprised that you try to flip the argument again to save face. The only thing you should be calculating is the coefficient of correlation to this L that you're holding.

Carry on accumulating these Ls and we might have to change your name to lallana

Is it getting too much for you. Calm down.

It's simple. Your correlation coefficient will simply determine the strength of the relationship between having a high number of tackles and being a good defender.

You simply can't come and tell us Luiz is in the highest 30% of tacklers and disappear, when he is in the top 5% of defenders this season. That is weak correlation. When I enter excel, we go chop up the numbers.

Woke up to watch F1 before heading out but ended up reading you guys posts on NL.
Y'all killing it.

Ibime:


Is it getting too much for you. Calm down.

It's simple. Your correlation coefficient will simply determine the strength of the relationship between having a high number of tackles and being a good defender.

You simply can't come and tell us Luiz is in the highest 30% of tacklers and disappear, when he is in the top 5% of defenders this season. That is weak correlation. When I enter excel, we go chop up the numbers.

Not only excel, you should make PowerPoint slides bro. The first thing you've been shouting is that Luis is top 5 percentile...this is based on what stats? Who said Luis is top 5? Which authority?

Secondly, why are you not trying to calculate for Azpi and VVD? Have you forgotten that these are also examples of players you mentioned?

This guy you have some serious jokes I swear.

Nihilist:


Not only excel, you should make PowerPoint slides bro. The first thing you've been shouting is that Luis is top 5 percentile...this is based on what stats? Who said Luis is top 5? Which authority?

Secondly, why are you not trying to calculate for Azpi and VVD? Have you forgotten that these are also examples of players you mentioned?

This guy you have some serious jokes I swear.

Relax yourself. The serious joke was that Otamendi showed strong correlation between being a rubbish defender and having high no of tackles. Azpi and VVD are only 50% of the defenders I mentioned, same probability as the flip of a coin. You presented a mixed-bag of results with some atrocious defenders making your top list of tacklers, threw in Azpi and VVD, and hey voila, presented as evidence of correlation. Wait first, lets chop the numbers up. The list of high volume tacklers look as random as something that would be caused by style of play.

Ibime:


Relax yourself. The serious joke was that Otamendi showed strong correlation between being a rubbish defender and having high no of tackles. Azpi and VVD are only 50% of the defenders I mentioned, same probability as the flip of a coin. You presented a mixed-bag of results with some atrocious defenders making your top list of tacklers, threw in Azpi and VVD, and hey voila, presented as evidence of correlation. Wait first, lets chop the numbers up. The list of high volume tacklers look as random as something that would be caused by style of play.

What is the clown saying?

You are the only that has been shouting correlation upandan. What's my business with correlation?

This was your verbatim statement

Ibime: Top 20 tacklers does not contain Aldeweireld, Van Dijk, Luiz and Azpi - those are your 4 best defenders this season.

My job as the lie detector was to prove you were lying as 3 of those 4 players were in the top 15 for tackles. 2 of them in the top 5. 1 of them in the top 2.

Now after being exposed yet again for yarning bollocks, you're shouting correlation and excel spreadsheet. What next? SPSS? MATLAB?

My nigga cuddle this L and go to sleep.

Lol ....... Nihilist vs Ibime..... keep it coming pls...