TheGoodJoe:


There is no mathematics to this. Manu Garba had factors that affected his team. An example was his top players like Iheanacho, Success and I think Ndidi arriving late to camp. Some few days to go. You always neglect factors which is due to our poor preparation and protocols. Also, in the 2005 WYC, despite the change of coaches, we had promotion of players like Mikel, Obasi and Isaac Promise.

It is not just promotion. I do not get the incessant attack. The factors against Amunike was too much against him. It is unfair to try to bring down the massive effort, hard work and sacrifice he put in.

Icon4s:


I know. He was even better than Awoniyi.

But the question is do we not have 22 or 23 yrs old professional strikers that we would be fielding a 16yrs old academy player. He had not even moved to Wolfsburg yet.
The U17 WC ended in Nov 2015 and that Senegal U23 tourney was in December.

tbaba1234:
Ivory Coast lands more dual nationality players.

tbaba1234:
Ivory Coast lands more dual nationality players.

tbaba1234:
Ivory Coast lands more dual nationality players.

ChrisKels:


Chai what a coup.

Cornet will give Jonathan kodjia a run for his money. Mediocre like lassana traore and of course Wilfried Bony would be groaning. With fofana in the fold, Max gradel would be further pushed down the pecking order. Hmm ivorians are building o. They already have the best back four in Africa.

TheSuperNerd:

Serge Aurier and Eric Bailly I agree will make Africa's best XI for now..... but who again for that Ivorian back line beta pass Kalidou Koulibaly of Senegal biko?

And at Left back... is their left back better than Ghoulam of Algeria?

Again.... I rate the Ivorians but they couldn't even make it out of the first round at the Afcon. Morocco bested them.


So when it comes to African football.... only two of their back four can walk easily into Africa's best back four of this present time.

ChrisKels:


Lol who compliments kalidou in the Senegalese defence, mbodji? And ghoulam in Algeria, medjani?

Ivorian back four- Aurier, Baily, Kanon or lamine kone and then their fantastic left back, traore of Basel

TheSuperNerd:
Kalidou benches Kanon..... Ghoulam benches Traore.... #fact.

Now add, Aurier and Baily.... this is africa's best back four currently.


I also added a note on Seko Fofana to my comment. plss check it out.

ChrisKels:


I no dey talk of Africa first eleven, I dey talk of the respective teams in Africa. They are the best.

ChrisKels:


Chai what a coup.

Cornet will give Jonathan kodjia a run for his money. Mediocre like lassana traore and of course Wilfried Bony would be groaning. With fofana in the fold, Max gradel would be further pushed down the pecking order. Hmm ivorians are building o. They already have the best back four in Africa.

komekn:


You call Wilfred Bony a mediocre player not even Lassana deserves that description. You should apologise you have made a big gaff.

How many Nigerian players currently can boast of achieving the heights these two have attained. Please tell me

*LMC, NASD, 18 Issuing Houses meet in Lagos today

TheGoodJoe:


There is no mathematics to this. Manu Garba had factors that affected his team. An example was his top players like Iheanacho, Success and I think Ndidi arriving late to camp. Some few days to go. You always neglect factors which is due to our poor preparation and protocols. Also, in the 2005 WYC, despite the change of coaches, we had promotion of players like Mikel, Obasi and Isaac Promise.

It is not just promotion. I do not get the incessant attack. The factors against Amunike was too much against him. It is unfair to try to bring down the massive effort, hard work and sacrifice he put in.

TheSuperNerd:
You forget Ambrose Vanzekin too..... so much for U-17s not being able to cope at U-20 levels because they are "amateurs"


The Stars of That Siasia U-20 team had the 2003 U-17 Core guys as the main figures.... Mikel, Ogbuke Obasi, and Ambrose Vanzekin... even Isaac Promise.

Taiye Taiwo was not at Finland 2003 though but apart from him who else made the most impact alongside the u-17 boys from two years before 2005?

Icon4s:



Like u still dnt get the point. Nobody is saying all the previous U17 cannot cope. A good number end up not meeting up. Go back to that 2003 U17 squad list and look at the 2005 U20 squad list and tell me how many of that 18man list From 2003 U17 made the 2005 U20.

Have u also forgotten that from that 2005 U20 apart from Taye Taiwo we also had players like John Owoeri, David Abuo, Dele Adeleye, Adefemi Olubayo, Sanni Keita, Kenedy Chinwo, Daddy Bazuaye, Yinka Adedeji. Obinna Nsofor was in the team but was later dropped for him to go settle his club issues. The whole of that defense never played at the 2003 U17.

My point is have an open camp with an open mind. Not that u would have already decided on picking ur boys even before the camping.

You see the massive inclusion of players into the Manu's and Siasia's U20 lists above. How can Amuneke include only 1 new player. He cant tell me he did nt see players who were better than the ones he already had in camp.

Icon4s:



Like u still dnt get the point. Nobody is saying all the previous U17 cannot cope. A good number end up not meeting up. Go back to that 2003 U17 squad list and look at the 2005 U20 squad list and tell me how many of that 18man list From 2003 U17 made the 2005 U20.

Have u also forgotten that from that 2005 U20 apart from Taye Taiwo we also had players like John Owoeri, David Abuo, Dele Adeleye, Adefemi Olubayo, Sanni Keita, Kenedy Chinwo, Daddy Bazuaye, Yinka Adedeji. Obinna Nsofor was in the team but was later dropped for him to go settle his club issues. The whole of that defense never played at the 2003 U17.

My point is have an open camp with an open mind. Not that u would have already decided on picking ur boys even before the camping.

You see the massive inclusion of players into the Manu's and Siasia's U20 lists above. How can Amuneke include only 1 new player. He cant tell me he did nt see players who were better than the ones he already had in camp.

TheSuperNerd:
I agree that a good number of the players at U-17 level end up not meeting up.... after all, not all will end up being super stars like the others....

And I am not saying all U-17 players who featured in a particular U-17 WC must make the step up bcoz usually there will always or almost always be much more talented players in certain positions to knock some of the U-17 boys out when the U-20s begin....

But again, it is not impossible to have a bulk of the squad at U-17 level move up and dominate the U-20 squad... A case study here is Mexico's U-20 squad of 2007. They were mostly dominated by same boys who conquered the world in Peru in 2005 at U-17 level. In 2007, they made the quarters and lost by the odd goal to eventual winners, Aguero's Argentina... after a very tight game.

That team fared well at U-20 level.


Siasia's team didn't carry the bulk of the Finland 2003 team but the players from the U-17 2003 class who made the squad were the team's anchormen and Super Talismen. Without them... that team would have gone nowhere in Holland... We are talking of Mikel Obi, Ogbuke Obasi, Ambrose Vanzekin (actually Uamzekin), and Isaac Promise.

But I get your point on Amuneke's team.... to me... well, Amuneke did have his faults as regards being rigid with his team dynamics by not encouraging super competition for "his boys" in the team.... but again, if he had succeeded, people would say that his model is the one to follow....


And your point on open camp with an open mind is well noted. I acknowledge it.

Good Morning Chief Icon4s....

TheSuperNerd:

Lolll.... Not that I agree with Sir Chris Labelling Bony and Lacina Traore mediocres..... buuuutttttttt......

......it is his opinion and it is his right to stand by his views just as you also gave yours by labelling Isaac Success a waste-man.... for which you also never apologised and also insisted you were right to do so.....

So let's just call it even.....

EEGA:
Pls is Moses Simon better than Onyekuru.

Icon4s:


Your last paragraph. Nigeria learnt the bitter way.

Experience is always the best teacher.

Problem is we keep forgetting.

Our two best Flying Eagles teams did nt have the same coaches from U17 to U20. And they were never U17 champions. So no automatic promotions and the U20 coaches scouted for the best available players with the believe that the team at U17 level was nt good enough. And that yielded results.

Go back to our results at U20 two yrs after each time we win U17. Manu U20 boys even with the 2nd round exit were better than the others.

komekn:


I qualified my assertion which is not sentimental name calling but objective assessment, by asking to tell us any current Nigerian player who have reached the heights these two have

However, there has been silence.

But now that you have decided to stand in the gap you can tell us in comparison.

Using the standard set by the original post which I quoted. In case you don't respond.

Lassana signed by Monaco for $14 million in 2014 and currently on another loan. Has played 56 competitive league games across Europe and scored 17 goals.

Isaac Success made his first senior league appearance in 2014. Has played 72 league games as a forward player and scored 8 goals.

It seems I may have to backtrack the original post does not clearly describe Wilfred Bony as mediocre but only Lassana. In that case I withdraw my call to apologise as my focus was on Bony.

Nonetheless using the comparison set by ChrisKels which you have implied agreement with.

I actually think that Lassana is far from outstanding but not exactly mediocre and therefore still disagree.

But using the ChrisKels unit of measurement and comparing the statistics of Lassana and Isaac. So if you think Lassana is a mediocre waste man. What does that make Isaac Success in comparison



I Rest My Case

goldfish80:


I've read through your opinion about the Amunike U20 crash. I believe you've made some valid points but I think the issue boils down to the structure the political class operate at the FA.

In my opinion, the technical department of the Nff didn't do their job. I've always believed that the technical department of any FA should be the strongest. This department is responsible for charting a course for the development of football at all levels in the country.
It falls within their responsibility to put up policy of recruitment into the various cadet teams. If they had done their job properly, we wouldn't be in this quagmire.
Failure to qualify for both U17 and U20 Caf championships is a disaster to put it mildly.

If the technical department was in tune with international standards they wouldn't have allowed Amunike to recruit only academy players to prosecute the AYC qualifiers. The John obuh team that won the AYC had a fusion of league players like Terry Envo, Ajagun, Uche Nwofor and the likes while the Manu U20 team had the likes of Sokari, Nwobodo, Ifeanyi and so on.
If these successful teams had these players, it begs the question, Why take an exclusive U18 academy boys for AYC qualifiers? What was the method to the madness? This brings me back to the technical department of the FA.

In my opinion, the quality of personel in the technical department should be reviewed. I don't think people like Lawal, Ikpeba, Jay Jay Okocha and likes should be there, with all due respect. I don't know if James Peters is still in that department but if he is still there like I suspect, then his position should be reviewed.
The technical department should be manned by competent technical people. Their job description shouldn't be just to recommend coaches or interview prospective managers.

I will wholeheartedly support the hiring of a foreign manager to head the technical department. I was quite open to the appointment of Tom Saintfield a few years ago as the head of technical Committee. I stand down.

BascoVanVeli:


Yes. Henry is at the stage Moses was when he first got the Belgium, just running and scoring but now Moses is expected to do more tactically. He is a more complete player.

TheGoodJoe:


I remember reading that Clemens Westerhoff held a camp of over a hundred invited players (Local and foreign based) after Nigeria won the Tunisia '94 AFCON. After the camp, most of the former Super Eagles players made the final list. Does that mean that Westerhoff did not have an open mind?

I repeat, Amunike would not go through all that trouble if he did not want new players. Remember, he held a National screening process before he picked his team.

Icon4s:

I love ur answer.
I know some peeps here who would say other-wise.

BascoVanVeli:


Yes. Henry is at the stage Moses was when he first got the Belgium, just running and scoring but now Moses is expected to do more tactically. He is a more complete player.